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Old
04-04-2013, 05:12 PM
  #51
InglewoodJack
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Hey montreal, weren't you the one that was really high on Mac Bennett? Haven't heard much of him. What's his upside/what do you see out of him?

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04-04-2013, 05:23 PM
  #52
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Dietz and Hudon impressed me this year.

Barkov will look nice on that list when we trade up and take him in the top 5.

I dunno about you guys but I'd be willing to give up a LOT to move into the top 5 this year. MTL can kinda afford it right now with all the picks we have + roster players that can be moved.

What would it cost? Roster player (A Gio or Bourque or DD? ) + our 1st (assuming its a late 20) + one of our 2nds + Thrower? Thats just a wild guess.. Too much or not enough?

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04-04-2013, 05:31 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by scrowe21 View Post
Dietz and Hudon impressed me this year.

Barkov will look nice on that list when we trade up and take him in the top 5.

I dunno about you guys but I'd be willing to give up a LOT to move into the top 5 this year. MTL can kinda afford it right now with all the picks we have + roster players that can be moved.

What would it cost? Roster player (A Gio or Bourque or DD? ) + our 1st (assuming its a late 20) + one of our 2nds + Thrower? Thats just a wild guess.. Too much or not enough?
No it wouldnt cost that... Now stop. We arent getting Barkov.¸

We already got that kind of player with Galchenyuk, having two will not make us any better right now. And even in the future.

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04-04-2013, 05:35 PM
  #54
montreal
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Funny though that you list Thrower ahead of Leblanc, since both had bad seasons.
One play's CHL on a stacked team and the other got yet another bad injury and played in the AHL on a poor team. Also add to the fact that Leblanc has looked good in the NHL... Maybe your basing yourself too much on this season.

If we did that, Pacciorety, Plekanec, Price and alot of others would all be elsewhere.
So you think the Blades are a stacked team? I've seen them a number of times and they didn't look very good to me, let alone stacked. I actually like what I saw from Thrower this year, Leblanc was a massive disappointment. I admit though I do factor in a lot of the current season, I do try less to go off of what might be vs what they have done so far if that makes sense.

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Good stuff as always. One question though. Why no Pribyl? Is lack of skating and strength really that bad in your eyes? When I watch him, I see a very gifted offensive player, who has finally started to round out his two-way game.

I wouldn't expect him to even in the top 20 (he's in mine though), but not getting a mention at all is definitely surprising.
I like Pribyl but left him off as I'm not sure he gets signed.

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Originally Posted by Schwang View Post
Really? Nygren that low? The guy basically won the equivalent of the Norris trophy! What the heck has Thrower or Leblanc done to rank that high?
Leblanc is skilled and hard working, even after a bad season he still has done a lot in his career. Thrower had an outstanding season in his draft year, and he plays a style that I think will fit well in the NHL and something the Habs sorely need more of. On the other hand i'm not sold yet on how Nygren can handle the smaller ice.

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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
The great thing about this list is that it doesn't use NHL readiness as a big factor like all the other lists I see. Always thought it was a bit of a copy out.

Love seeing Hudon so high up there too. I like what I've seen from Collberg but if he can be a better player than what I think Hudon can be then we'll be in ridiculous shape.

Tinordi above Beaulieu is a good call too. For me it has nothing to do with short changing Beaulieu, moreso thinking Tinordi has a huge amount of room to grow and improve. He seems to have really great character too.

Great job, Montreal.
Thanks, I would have had Hudon at #1 if not for concerns over his size/injuries. I was so impressed with Hudon this year, but worry about how he will handle the pro game. Collberg I really like as I think he's going to be a true sniper and we sure could use more of that. Really like both of them and consider my top 5 to be all in the same boat as the best of the bunch.

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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Nygren if he doesn't improve his defensive play will be nothing more than a PP specialist. It's up to him whether or not he becomes more than that.
Morgan Ellis needs to improve his footspeed. He should round out to be a heart and soul bottom pairing D man with a good shot and a good first pass.
Agreed, I have a lot of questions about how Nygren will handle the North American game, and I want to see Ellis get quicker.

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Hey montreal, weren't you the one that was really high on Mac Bennett? Haven't heard much of him. What's his upside/what do you see out of him?
yes, big fan of his as his mobility is outstanding. He's solid at both ends of the ice and is a good puck mover. I think that he should end up being a solid middle pairing guy that can do a lot of things but my concerns would be over his lack of size, strength and physical game. He's at his best rushing the puck up ice or moving the puck, along with using his great skating/mobility to cover a lot of ground. He's smart and hard working as well.

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Dietz and Hudon impressed me this year.
Both had very good years, found them to be 2 of the most impressive prospects in the system this year.

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Old
04-04-2013, 05:41 PM
  #55
Dagistitsyn
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
No it wouldnt cost that... Now stop. We arent getting Barkov.¸

We already got that kind of player with Galchenyuk, having two will not make us any better right now. And even in the future.
First of all, you're no fun. Its a message board. Sorry for entertaining the idea of possibly moving up in the draft.

Second ... That is the dumbest thing I've read in awhile

Yeah having Barkov along with Galchenyuk wouldn't make us better now or in the future, that's a ridiculous thing to ever think

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04-04-2013, 05:53 PM
  #56
dackelljuneaubulis02
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Never under estimate high hockey IQ.

And what's your definition of high upside pertaining to prospects who aren't ranked in the top ten of their respective organizations?

What other teams have top line/top pairing talent in the 10-20s?

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04-04-2013, 06:06 PM
  #57
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"Thanks, I would have had Hudon at #1 if not for concerns over his size/injuries. I was so impressed with Hudon this year, but worry about how he will handle the pro game. Collberg I really like as I think he's going to be a true sniper and we sure could use more of that. Really like both of them and consider my top 5 to be all in the same boat as the best of the bunch."

With the limited time I saw some of our prospects, have to say Hudon was my fave by a long shot. Can definitely see you not putting him at the top though.

Before we got to see Gallagher with the Habs, I would've thought Hudon had the higher ceiling. That's obviously changed but if Hudon trains hard and can stay away from injury who knows. Good thing is he makes Patches look like a cub in the Wolverine regeneration department.

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04-04-2013, 07:24 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Tell that to guy's like DD...
You really let this bad year hinder your judgment of Louis, which is not fair at all.
Remember when we did this with Patches, Eller, Price, Plekanec, Gorges, Pyatt, Grabovski and Ribeiro ?

We've seen worse player in the NHL.
Difference is I've never liked Leblanc.
Didn't want him in his draft year.
Wasn't impressed in the WJC's
Still wasn't impressed in the QMJHL.

I've been a supporter of all those players except Pyatt. I'm very patient with prospects. I am being very optimistic when I say he can round out to be a 3rd line player akin to the Higgins that is playing in Vancouver right now.

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04-04-2013, 08:29 PM
  #59
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It's a year to forget for Leblanc, ankle injuries are tough to come back from, not that he was a quick skater to begin with. This guy will make the NHL. Depending on how he will hold up through those injuries, he could become a serviceable 3rd liner.

He's only 22. A year ago he scored 10 points in 42 games in the NHL.

Pacioretty in his first pro season had 11 pts in 34 games.

I'm not comparing both upsides, but just illustrating that we need to be patient.

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04-04-2013, 08:56 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Really don't like the hate Leblanc is getting. He showned that he was good enough for the NHL last year, which alot of the players ranked above him will never even see.
I don't think it is hate. Everyone here would love to see Leblanc succeed but he has to show some progress. If he does, I am sure he will be ranked higher. Others deserve to be higher based on what they accomplished this year.

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At first tought... I think we have too many pro prospect. 6 CHL prospects ? Seems low.
Okay, that's a first... too many pro prospects

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04-04-2013, 10:21 PM
  #61
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My top 20, I've seen most of the players currently playing in the AHL

1. Danny Kristo
2. Sebastian Collberg
3. Nathan Beaulieu
4. Jarred Tinordi
5. Charles Hudon
6. Darren Dietz
7. Louis Leblanc
8. Tim Bozon
9. Mac Bennett
10. Michael Bournival
11. Gabriel Dumont
12. Magnus Nygren
13. Mark MacMillan
14. Dustin Tokarski
15. Brady Vail
16. Dalton Thrower
17. Morgan Ellis
18. Patrick Holland
19. Daniel Pribyl
20. Josiah Didier
HM- Olivier Archambault, Joonas Nattinen, Joe Stejskal

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04-04-2013, 10:42 PM
  #62
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I don't think it is hate. Everyone here would love to see Leblanc succeed but he has to show some progress. If he does, I am sure he will be ranked higher. Others deserve to be higher based on what they accomplished this year.



Okay, that's a first... too many pro prospects
Not too many pro prospects, not enough CHL

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04-04-2013, 11:04 PM
  #63
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I disagree with Beaulieu being as "low" as he is. He has the highest ceiling of anyone in the system (outside the NHL), and based on what I've seen from both his progress in the AHL and his test run in the NHL, I don't see how he's more of a risk than Collberg or Kristo.

I'm not quite ready to jump on the Kristo bandwagon..but I am looking forward to seeing him play pro hockey. He's matured a lot..but he has not been challenged nearly as much as he is about to. He's proven me wrong already though, so let's see him do it again.

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04-05-2013, 09:20 AM
  #64
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I disagree with Beaulieu being as "low" as he is. He has the highest ceiling of anyone in the system (outside the NHL), and based on what I've seen from both his progress in the AHL and his test run in the NHL, I don't see how he's more of a risk than Collberg or Kristo.

I'm not quite ready to jump on the Kristo bandwagon..but I am looking forward to seeing him play pro hockey. He's matured a lot..but he has not been challenged nearly as much as he is about to. He's proven me wrong already though, so let's see him do it again.
I don't agree that Beaulieu has the highest ceiling, he may but I think Kristo/Collberg/Hudon all have very high ceilings. I actually wasn't overly impressed with Beaulieu in his NHL callups, he's got a lot of holes in his defensive play (decision making/position) I think he needs a lot of work in his own end so I have concerns about how his defensive issues are going to effect him at the NHL level.

For me I put Tinordi higher as I was more impressed with him in Hamilton this year then Beaulieu as Tinordi brings something we sorely need. I liked Tinordi more in both the NHL and AHL vs Beaulieu, even though I don't think Tinordi's upside is higher, I think he's much more likely to hit it whereas Beaulieu I still have lots of questions. Beaulieu can really wow with his play in the offensive zone but he also can be flat out bad in his own end.

As for Kristo, no one knows how he will adjust to the pro game but his skill level is really high, he can do so much with the puck at high speed that I think he's going to do very well. But we'll see how it goes for him next year when he has to play a full season.

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04-05-2013, 10:20 AM
  #65
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Or trade Brian Gionta for a first!
I kinda wonder if a package with him could have been made for F. Forsberg. Don't wanna trade captain usually in our situation, but hope they get rid of Gionta next year and wouldn't have been against it here.

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04-05-2013, 10:33 AM
  #66
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Not too many pro prospects, not enough CHL
Well, you did say too many pro prospects. Maybe that's not what you meant.

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04-05-2013, 10:39 AM
  #67
Chris Cutter
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I don't agree that Beaulieu has the highest ceiling, he may but I think Kristo/Collberg/Hudon all have very high ceilings. I actually wasn't overly impressed with Beaulieu in his NHL callups, he's got a lot of holes in his defensive play (decision making/position) I think he needs a lot of work in his own end so I have concerns about how his defensive issues are going to effect him at the NHL level.

For me I put Tinordi higher as I was more impressed with him in Hamilton this year then Beaulieu as Tinordi brings something we sorely need. I liked Tinordi more in both the NHL and AHL vs Beaulieu, even though I don't think Tinordi's upside is higher, I think he's much more likely to hit it whereas Beaulieu I still have lots of questions. Beaulieu can really wow with his play in the offensive zone but he also can be flat out bad in his own end.

As for Kristo, no one knows how he will adjust to the pro game but his skill level is really high, he can do so much with the puck at high speed that I think he's going to do very well. But we'll see how it goes for him next year when he has to play a full season.
I agree with your reasoning behind Tinordi over Beaulieu but as far as I'm concerned (like a couple people have posted) I'd put Beaulieu ahead of Tinordi on the sole purpose that if Beaulieu works on those things you mentionned earlier (which he can do over the next year in the AHL) he would be ahead of Tinordi on the depth chart. Obviously Tinordi is the safer bet to reach his potential as that tough #4 defenseman who can kill penalties. Beaulieu impressed me with his vision but like you said he still has to learn some things defensively when it comes to positioning or gaining strenght (which is the one thing he has to put the most emphasis during the summer IMO, he was getting way too outmuscled in his short stint, and it wasn't by imposing players either). I see Beaulieu as a bigger John Michael Liles in a couple years.

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04-05-2013, 10:48 AM
  #68
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Wasn't he the 6'3 150 lbs guy we drafted a few years ago? What's up with him? I heard nothing about him ever since.
He was only 6'0.

Why is Nygren so low ? Guy was one of the better dman in the SEL and not just on offense from what Swedish posters have said.

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04-05-2013, 10:49 AM
  #69
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Because we'll be lucky if he ends up being a 15 goals Higgins?

Bournival being stronger and faster can turn him into a servicable 4th liner. If Leblanc can't put up points at the NHL level and can't win board battles due to his slight frame, his hockey IQ will do nothing for him.
Serviceable 4th liner?!

Bournival, at worst, will be a 3rd liner. He fits in the mold of Jannik Hansen.

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04-05-2013, 10:53 AM
  #70
Chris Cutter
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Serviceable 4th liner?!

Bournival, at worst, will be a 3rd liner. He fits in the mold of Jannik Hansen.
At worst? More like at best, from what I've seen at the WJC, Memorial Cup and in the AHL (although I have to take the later with more of a grain of salt since he's a rookie and he plays on a **** team). His best assets are his speed and his hustle. I don't think he has the tools to be a productive player in the AHL. His upside is probably a Dominic Moore type of player but he's more likely to turn into the current version of Halpern but with more speed obviously.

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04-05-2013, 12:00 PM
  #71
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I agree with your reasoning behind Tinordi over Beaulieu but as far as I'm concerned (like a couple people have posted) I'd put Beaulieu ahead of Tinordi on the sole purpose that if Beaulieu works on those things you mentionned earlier (which he can do over the next year in the AHL) he would be ahead of Tinordi on the depth chart. Obviously Tinordi is the safer bet to reach his potential as that tough #4 defenseman who can kill penalties. Beaulieu impressed me with his vision but like you said he still has to learn some things defensively when it comes to positioning or gaining strenght (which is the one thing he has to put the most emphasis during the summer IMO, he was getting way too outmuscled in his short stint, and it wasn't by imposing players either). I see Beaulieu as a bigger John Michael Liles in a couple years.
For me personally ranking prospects, I wouldn't put Beaulieu over Tinordi based on what you say that if Beaulieu works on those things as I would rather wait and see the improvement first. I actually have been ranking Beaulieu higher in the past, this is the first time I have ranked Tinordi over Beaulieu as I ended up being more impressed with Tinordi although clearly I have them very close.

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Why is Nygren so low ? Guy was one of the better dman in the SEL and not just on offense from what Swedish posters have said.
We'll see how he handles the smaller ice

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04-05-2013, 09:00 PM
  #72
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When Kristo was draft, he describe himself this way: ''I am a fast and intense player who play two way''. Fast and intense has been right. But how is his two-way game? I know he got some offensive upside, (2nd liner) but for his defensive game, where he stand?

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04-05-2013, 09:26 PM
  #73
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When Kristo was draft, he describe himself this way: ''I am a fast and intense player who play two way''. Fast and intense has been right. But how is his two-way game? I know he got some offensive upside, (2nd liner) but for his defensive game, where he stand?
He uses his speed more when he has the puck, so I think he can get better defensively. His defensive game was never a problem up to this point though, always a sizable plus rating and a PKer in college, but could be different in the pros.

His best defense is to have the puck on his stick and making plays. Just my opinion from college and world juniors.

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04-05-2013, 09:56 PM
  #74
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Morgan Ellis that low is ridiculus. That guy will make the NHL and he is a really good prospect. Of course he is not flashy, he is a bigger version of Josh Gorges.

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04-05-2013, 10:51 PM
  #75
montreal
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When Kristo was draft, he describe himself this way: ''I am a fast and intense player who play two way''. Fast and intense has been right. But how is his two-way game? I know he got some offensive upside, (2nd liner) but for his defensive game, where he stand?
He's decent in his own end but lacks strength so he's going to get overmatched physically at the pro level from time to time. His speed helps him cover ground quickly as he can hit top gear with easy and in a few strides. He's someone that at the pro level likely could do well enough on the PK but perhaps won't see a lot of time there.

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Morgan Ellis that low is ridiculus. That guy will make the NHL and he is a really good prospect. Of course he is not flashy, he is a bigger version of Josh Gorges.
Have you watched a lot of Hamilton games? What's your take on his play there?

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