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NYI at Caps. 7PM. 4.4.2013: Playoffs?!

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04-05-2013, 09:12 AM
  #526
Stewie G
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
For all the crap I've said and thought about Hillen (and there's been plenty), I will give him this: he seemed to be handling Tavares beautifully all night.
I almost never watch the post game show but I was too lazy to change the channel last night, and that was Alan May's biggest point. He likely wouldn't fare nearly as well against bigger forwards, but I thought he did well against #91.

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04-05-2013, 09:25 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Our defense is garbage. It has been bad for a while, and I've been saying it for a while. But it's certainly not as good as it's been in fifteen years, or whatever BobRouse was saying. Hell, it's not even as good as the unit we had last year. I'd take functional a Hamrlik over Hillen any day of the week, and Hunter's system emphasized Schultz's strengths and masked the mobility concerns with Schultz, Hamrlik, and Erskine. Even as much as we hate Wideman, he could at least get the puck out of the defensive zone.
WAIT! WHAT?

That's BS, pure BS. As a Flame fan described Wideman earlier this season, he plays as if the puck is a hand grenade and that's the way he played for us last season. Whether the stats support me or not, I'd say he turned the puck over more in our d-zone last season then any other defenseman. Wideman was one dimensional to me, he had a heck of a shot from the blue line, good for the PPs, but that was it.

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04-05-2013, 09:32 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
WAIT! WHAT?

That's BS, pure BS. As a Flame fan described Wideman earlier this season, he plays as if the puck is a hand grenade and that's the way he played for us last season. Whether the stats support me or not, I'd say he turned the puck over more in our d-zone last season then any other defenseman. Wideman was one dimensional to me, he had a heck of a shot from the blue line, good for the PPs, but that was it.
I usually agree with Myst's assessments, but I'm with you on this one. Particularly in the playoffs, Wideman fumbled pucks, put his partners in bad positions to make plays, and made poor passes/chips trying to clear the zone. Those types of plays generally resulted in extended shifts in the defensive zone.

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04-05-2013, 09:35 AM
  #529
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I like what I'm seeing and at the right time. Sorry, I've been down on GM for a while, and I wasn't against tanking if things had gotten just a little more bleak than they were, but the only issue with this team is a very young D needing to sure things up. I don't know if it's a coaching problem or what but the talent is here. My only complaint (now that everyone is healthy) is Orlov sitting. Maybe he's hurt. If not, benching him for any of the Hillen/Kund/Poti/Sarge mess is beyond brain dead. Fixing the awful PK would do a great deal of good.


Last edited by Roughing: 04-05-2013 at 09:41 AM.
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04-05-2013, 09:36 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by rubynj View Post
Im convinced some of you never watch other games the caps are not involved in. Or you have been absolutly spoiled watching Boudreau and the young gun era.
No, I just like crisp fundamentally strong hockey. The Caps are one of the more flat teams around the league and their success is largely predicated on the opposition having shakier team play.

My chief concerns would be the overall make-up of the D and their PK. The PK to this point is the worst performing group since the '04-05 lockout. Think about those other teams and other personnel. They got the job done last night but it's just bad generally. If there's one area where gamer Carlson is needed it's there because he's been the worst at it along with Backstrom.

Re: Draft pick placement the division "winners" are seeded after everyone else, ordered by standings points and then 27-30 go to the CF/SCF teams so they're likely looking at a pick in the area of 21-25 as SE champ.


Last edited by Langway: 04-05-2013 at 10:16 AM.
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04-05-2013, 09:38 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
You keep saying this. What does Nabby have to do with our defense? We were out-shot by 14.
The caps Imo had more scoring chances. Islanders had more shots on goal but they were of the low probability variety. Caps had more quality chances. What good is shot on goal if it has no chance of going in?

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04-05-2013, 09:49 AM
  #532
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Us Caps fans should know about shots on goals better than any other fans.

The Montreal Series.

And I remember people here. Most of you were arguing how our insane amount of shots on goal didn't mean much because they were perimeter shots.

Now I see people have managed to flip flop about shots on goals.

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04-05-2013, 09:50 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
They didn't need a better D during the rebuild, so I wouldn't understand any complaints there. IMO, it really wouldn't have been valid to complain about the D until after the 2007-08 season. Up to that point, they needed to bed the young guys in.

Both the 2008-09 and 2009-10 defenses performed better than this one. I think the 2009-10 group was the better of the two. Good Poti was, all-around, on a level with Alzner this season. Dominant Green was better than this season's Green and Carlson combined. Non-negative Schultz was as good as anything we've had at the 2LD this year since Erskine's hot streak (which has been over for at least a dozen games now). Corvo was as good as this year's Carlson. And there's not much of a difference between the bottom pairing mish-mashes.

On Erskine, he had a good 10-15 games stretch, but has regressed back into his normal form since then. His snarl (which actually isn't applied all that much in the course of normal play) is causing him to be overrated. He's a decent #6, who's not a good match up, at all, for fast teams. He hasn't been 'awesome' for a while now. Should be a 14-15 minute/game defenseman, not 18-19.

Oleksy, as Erksine, should be a 14-15 minute/game guy. He's had some issues with his coverages, and gets overpowered more than his grit would indicate he should. Limiting his ice time would limit these occurrences. I know people like to point to Engellend as a comparable/example of why he can stick. Engelland gets under 14 minutes of ice time per game. That's why he sticks. Same should be applied to Oleksy.

Hillen is so bad. He skates well, but doesn't apply that skating ability into anything positive. No better than Sloan at this point.

Orlov and Kundratek aren't even on the team.
Well I'm not overly enamored with our current d-corps, but I thought Carlson played one of his better games of the season last night. Green always has been high risk high return, but he's looked real good the last few games with the puck on his stick. Thought Olesky is starting to show some of his flaws, last night he moved to defend an Islander who was already being defended by Erskine in front of the Caps goal and in so doing left his man wide open in the circle. I didn't realize that Olesky had played at Bridgeport for the Isles last year so perhaps they know his achilles heel, it seems Kundratek has the same problem when he faces the Rangers, those have been some of his worst games.

Just you mentioning Joe Corvo and Myst mentioning Dennis Wideman puzzles me. Yes our defense is not the best but to make reference to those two is just crazy talk. In Corvo's brief time here I thought he played horribly. I think Boston fans will agree regarding his performance with them as well and probably Canes fans would say the same this season. If ever the statement of addition by subtraction was made true, I think it applies to the likes of Corvo and Wideman no longer being in a Caps sweater. I think the Caps defense got better the day after each of those players left the team.

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04-05-2013, 09:52 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
No, I just like crisp fundamentally strong hockey. The Caps are one of the more flat teams around the league and their success is largely predicated on the opposition having shakier team play.
This is the first year where we have a coach that is actually focusing on the fundamentals. They still make a boat load of mistakes, but its been better than years past.

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04-05-2013, 09:54 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Us Caps fans should know about shots on goals better than any other fans.

The Montreal Series.

And I remember people here. Most of you were arguing how our insane amount of shots on goal didn't mean much because they were perimeter shots.

Now I see people have managed to flip flop about shots on goals.
SOG are right up there with +/- as being a flawed statistic for indicating a team's performance or a player's performance.

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04-05-2013, 09:56 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
This is the first year where we have a coach that is actually focusing on the fundamentals. They still make a boat load of mistakes, but its been better than years past.
Indeed. You need to learn to walk before you can run.

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04-05-2013, 10:05 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Our defense is garbage. It has been bad for a while, and I've been saying it for a while. But it's certainly not as good as it's been in fifteen years, or whatever BobRouse was saying. Hell, it's not even as good as the unit we had last year. I'd take functional a Hamrlik over Hillen any day of the week, and Hunter's system emphasized Schultz's strengths and masked the mobility concerns with Schultz, Hamrlik, and Erskine. Even as much as we hate Wideman, he could at least get the puck out of the defensive zone.
Holy Chef's Salty Meatballs Batman!!!

Wow so much to say here...

Dennis Wideman was god awful since the Allstar break. He couldn't skate, stopped producing offensively and was a turnover machine.

Schultz getting a jersey over Erskine and playing alot was brutal.

Green's effectiveness is far greater this year.

Erskine is FAR better this year.


So essentially you are saying that:

Wideman/Schultz/Hamrlik >> Erskine/Hillen/Oleksy

I completely disagree. We are far far FAR more physical with the latter and they are not nearly as turnover over prone as Wideman alone.

Schultz+Wideman cost us dearly last playoffs.

Also with Kundratek and Poti (sometimes) there is at least more decent depth.

Again yet another poster who reveals himself as not valuing physical play and toughness.


Last edited by BobRouse: 04-05-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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04-05-2013, 10:11 AM
  #538
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
What is draft position based on: standings seeding or playoff seeding? (assuming we do not win a round).
Standings (with division winners at the bottom, so not just points-based) with the exception of 27/28 are conference finalists, 29 is cup finalist, 30 is cup winner.

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04-05-2013, 10:11 AM
  #539
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The defense is better than last year and they've had to be, because the Hunter system is no longer protecting a REALLY BAD defensive corps. The emergence of guys like Oleksy and Kundratek and to a degree Erskine help the cause. A lot of the "stay at home" guys are pretty consistent. It's the "puckmovers" you have to worry about on any given night, imo.

But that still doesn't mean they're great, or even good enough to go deep. Time will tell.

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04-05-2013, 10:13 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
The defense is better than last year and they've had to be, because the Hunter system is no longer protecting a REALLY BAD defensive corps. The emergence of guys like Oleksy and Kundratek and to a degree Erskine help the cause. A lot of the "stay at home" guys are pretty consistent. It's the "puckmovers" you have to worry about on any given night, imo.

But that still doesn't mean they're great, or even good enough to go deep. Time will tell.
No they aren't perfect. But they are the best D group we've had since the Cup run:

Tinordi/Johansson
Gonchar/Reekie
Witt/Klee
Housley

Are they as good as those guys overall? Probably not.

But name on group we've had as good since?

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04-05-2013, 10:15 AM
  #541
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I'm sorry, but have you been paying attention to this franchise for the last, oh, almost 40 years?

You can't think of ANY reason why Caps fans would be skeptical and guarded?
^^^^^^ This, this, one million times this!!!!

The Caps have played well enough to win the SE about 5 out of the last 6 years. That's basically what they are doing right now. But winning the SE has meant absolutely bupkis in the playoffs. Presidents Trophy = First round bounce. Favorable first round matchup = Swept in the 2nd round. 2-4 in game 7s.

GMGM hasn't fixed the flaws that lead to those playoff disappointments. He's tried. He's tinkered. He's even panicked and we're now on our 4th "system" (3rd coach) in 3 years.

Everyone on here would freely admit we're playing better than the team that started this season in last place. Big effing deal. What the veteran Caps fans are talking about is the fact that we're not playing like, or built like, a real Cup contender, and just sqeeking into the playoffs by virtue of the pathetic SouthLeast division doesn't satisfy them anymore. Sending a misfit roster with holes galore into the playoffs where every team we'll face will have a better record than us, is not cause for wild celebration. Is it better than finishing 9th? Sure. Will it really help us win a Cup? Not really. Did GMGM just mortgage our future a little because he believes this roster deserved investment in it today? Yep, that's what just happened, but we're still skeptical.

We've seen this movie before. We know how it ends. And if we're all wrong about it and we win the Cup this year, you can kick us all off the board... I'll take that bet and pay that price... happily.

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04-05-2013, 10:16 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
No they aren't perfect. But they are the best D group we've had since the Cup run:

Tinordi/Johansson
Gonchar/Reekie
Witt/Klee
Housley

Are they as good as those guys overall? Probably not.

But name on group we've had as good since?
Wait, was I arguing with you?

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04-05-2013, 10:16 AM
  #543
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
What is draft position based on: standings seeding or playoff seeding? (assuming we do not win a round).
Ye of little faith.

But I was thinking the exact same thing, by winning the southleast do we screw ourselves in draft positioning if we are bounced in the first round.

I like to look at this site http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/

Now the site as it's currently displayed is from two days ago so it hasn't made the adjustments based upon last nights game, but it would suggest the Caps having the 16th pick currently.

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04-05-2013, 10:18 AM
  #544
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Just to horrify everyone, let's recall this crew:

Witt/Morrisonn
Heward/Muir
Biron/Majesky
Eminger

That's like architectural malpractice.

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04-05-2013, 10:18 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
Lose game. People complain.
Win game. People complain.
3rd in southeast. People complain.

You guys need to get a grip. So what if we won ugly? I rather win ugly then lose looking good.
"Fans" at their best
Well said. Good teams win ugly too...

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04-05-2013, 10:26 AM
  #546
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Biggest issue with winning ugly is what it says about their future chances. Take the win, but that's not a pretty picture of the team.

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04-05-2013, 10:32 AM
  #547
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Biggest issue with winning ugly is what it says about their future chances. Take the win, but that's not a pretty picture of the team.
Ugly got us to the 7th game of the 2nd round last season.

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04-05-2013, 10:35 AM
  #548
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Ugly got us to the 7th game of the 2nd round last season.
I think Holtby got us there, but even that and this are two different brands of ugly honestly.

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04-05-2013, 10:40 AM
  #549
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I would very much like to Carlzner reunited for a game. They've struggled together thus year for sure, but over their short careers they've played their best D together. They have wicked chemistry and should get another shot.

As for Hillen, meh. Don't hate him, don't love him. I really don't understand demoting Orlov. Very mysterious.

Given the roster, I want to see this:

Erskine - Green
Carlzner
Orlov/Hillen - Oleksy

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04-05-2013, 10:43 AM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
No, I just like crisp fundamentally strong hockey. The Caps are one of the more flat teams around the league and their success is largely predicated on the opposition having shakier team play.

My chief concerns would be the overall make-up of the D and their PK. The PK to this point is the worst performing group since the '04-05 lockout. Think about those other teams and other personnel. They got the job done last night but it's just bad generally. If there's one area where gamer Carlson is needed it's there because he's been the worst at it along with Backstrom.

Re: Draft pick placement the division "winners" are seeded after everyone else, ordered by standings points and then 27-30 go to the CF/SCF teams so they're likely looking at a pick in the area of 21-25 as SE champ.
Agree the pk is bad.

I think its clear the team has improved big time. SE division or not. Even in loses the team is still not getting blown out or failing to make a simple pass.

Top line is a force right now.

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