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Gaborik, Delisle, Parlett to CBJ for Brassard, Dorsett, Moore and 6th Round Pick

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04-05-2013, 05:15 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by TheDoctorLies View Post
I'm from Columbus. I grew up around hockey and in a hockey family. I've watched the Bluejackets for years, so I know what Brassard is capable of. He's not going to be asked to play a checking role on the third line in New York. He will likely see around the same amount of ice time on our third line and PP that he saw a night in Columbus. If he can produce about on par with his last two seasons in Columbus we will be more than happy to have him.
Coulda stopped here. This is a good explanation of what you bellieve to be the Rangers' plans to him in the roster/lineup. I have, in the past couple seasons, come to figure out that that's what Brass neds, to be part of a lineup that allows him to not to have to do the things at which he is poor and maximizes his positive attributes. (In addition to his vision and ability with the puck, he is a good teammate on-ice.) There were times I thought that might be here, but mostly he seemed miscast in whatever role he was given. Thus, fan frustration.

Thanks, though, for the added passive-aggressive antagonism, misplaaced though it might be.

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04-05-2013, 06:37 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Just make sure your coach doesn't senselessly bash Gabby in the media and expect him to play like Ryan Callahan type. He'll be fine. It's ****ing sad that it had to come to him being traded, but Der Fuhrer Torts aka Captain Blood had to have him go. It's Keenan/Gartner all over again.
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04-05-2013, 06:59 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by KSUBlueJacket View Post
yes he is, in 6 years for the #6 overall pick to only hit over 40 points twice and a career -42 is pretty downright bad
So every player on our roster who doesn't score on pace of 40 points is a scrub?
Draft position is irrelevant. As is his contract. Both of those are functions of teams making a decision.

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04-05-2013, 07:53 AM
  #529
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Brassard definitely isn't a scrub (and I've been a long time admitted non-fan), but I really don't expect him to improve that much on another team. He wasn't stiffled here and he had ample opportunity and it isn't like he didn't have some talent along side him here at various times (Nash and Voracek are pretty good players if I recall).

At some point the player also has to be responsible for some of his shortcomings and Brass has a few. Nothing wrong with that. Pobody's nerfect.

Best case scenario, I seem him cracking 50 points and maybe getting 20 goals. That's nothing to sneeze at. But I don't think he's much more than that. Useful dude who'll be in the NHL for a while, but will probably find himself on a few other teams before his career is over.

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04-05-2013, 08:02 AM
  #530
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Well guys. I know it's still early but the trade has worked in both teams' advantage so far. Gabby got his 1st goal and you guys won in Nashville (although I sometimes call NY Nashville now with Rick there haha).

The first impressions I have of Brassard and Moore is them being very useful guys. Not franchise players or annual all-star players but good enough for our depth which we lacked.

Moore seems to be McDonagh-lite with his quick skating and quick response while Brassard seems to be our Stepan-lite. Great vision and has the ability to put some good unexpected passes together.

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04-05-2013, 08:21 AM
  #531
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If the Rangers are getting a player that is going to post 40+ point pace from the 3rd line (which IS where he will be playing) then I am fine with that.

Boyle is not a 3rd line center. He doesn't have the vision, creativeness or talent to incorporate his wingers in the offence.

Boyle CAN be a solid 3rd line winger should he flank a creative center (Brassard)

The line that played against Pitt on Wednesday is one I would prefer to see kept together.

Hagelin - Brassard - Boyle

Speed, size and talent.

Not the prototypical 3rd line, but I think the league is starting to move away from that anyway. This is a line that has solid defensive capabilities as well as being able to put the puck in the net. A line that Torts will not be afraid of sending out to take either an offensive OR defensive zone draw.

Obviously the heavy lifting offensively will be on Stepan and Richards lines, but that is the beauty of it. Teams are going to game plan to stop those two lines. And when they do, Brassard's line can come in under the radar and burn teams.

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04-05-2013, 09:11 AM
  #532
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Brassard is not a bad player. The CBJ are just a team with too many centers. Brassard needs to be on the first or second line for his game to work. We already have Anisimov, Dubinsky and Johansen for two center positions. Brassard was deemed to be the least valuable of four. Easy decision.

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04-05-2013, 09:12 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by WinSock View Post
I see NikNik being traded unless he seriously picks up his game.
Since playing with Prout I think his game has improved. He, like Umberger, seems to have an adjustment period. Can't explain it but he certainly hasn't been the same player this year. I too could see him moved but don't think it's necessary. The young guys can play in Springfield if we have a solid defense in Columbus. Force one of the veterans out, let's not give it to a young guy just because we're itching to see youth in the lineup (not directing this at you WinSock, just an general statement pulled from reading the boards some days)

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04-05-2013, 09:13 AM
  #534
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04-05-2013, 09:17 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Brassard is not a bad player. The CBJ are just a team with too many centers. Brassard needs to be on the first or second line for his game to work. We already have Anisimov, Dubinsky and Johansen for two center positions. Brassard was deemed to be the least valuable of four. Easy decision.
Never really bought this. Up until last month, Brassard was very questionable 5 on 5. That is NOT a 1st or 2nd line player.

If Brassard continues adequate 5 on 5 play, the Rangers will have gotten a pretty good player. He's also seemed to have figured out faceoffs as well. If he wins half of his defensive zone faceoffs, that will help out the Rangers immensely. Brassard was gawd awful on defensive zone draws. That was a huge issue.

With his past short comings, you just couldn't trust him.

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04-05-2013, 09:22 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by TheDoctorLies View Post
I'm from Columbus. I grew up around hockey and in a hockey family. I've watched the Bluejackets for years, so I know what Brassard is capable of. He's not going to be asked to play a checking role on the third line in New York. He will likely see around the same amount of ice time on our third line and PP that he saw a night in Columbus. If he can produce about on par with his last two seasons in Columbus we will be more than happy to have him.

You apparently think there is no place for a guy like Brassard in the NHL. You have to remember that Columbus hasn't exactly been a beacon of decent hockey, well, ever. A lot of people on this board during the Nash trade saga were claiming that Nash was a much better player than his stats indicated and was dragged down by the pure awfulness that was the Jackets roster over the years. Why couldn't the same be true of Brassard, except on a smaller scale? Barring injury or significant improvement on Brassard's part he won't be seeing an opponent's top defensive pair aside from on the power play.

He isn't some savior for the Rangers but he most assuredly is not the "scrub" some people on this board have described him as.
Every player on every team has advocates and haters. It's life. I've been a big fan of Brassard and was sad to see him go but the reality is he ISN'T good on faceoffs, DOESN'T play well in all three zones and is NOT suited for the historical 3rd line role. Time changes and "line rules" change. Brassard is very good offensively - especially on the PP. He has amazing vision, hates to lose and has a great shot (just doesn't use it). CBJ fans became accustomed to behind the back, no look passes at our own blue line. That's a killer. He's improved since but he has yet to be consistent.

If you get consistency out of Brassard he has a chance to be a very good #2C. If not, he'll be a PP player and in Torts doghouse just like Gaborik. I'm a fan but try to be objective. The same came with Nash. And there was more Nash bashing by Ranger's fans than anyone on the board and those same fans now come to love the guy becuase they see the talent most CBJ fans tried to explain he had. Guess what, CBJ fans hated Nash too. That's just the way it is. No need to stick up for Brassard. You won't change opinions on here. I wish him well and hope the Ranges go 0-82 next year because I hate the fact I can't cheer "1940" any more! Damn Messier

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04-05-2013, 09:31 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by JacketsDavid View Post
So every player on our roster who doesn't score on pace of 40 points is a scrub?
Draft position is irrelevant. As is his contract. Both of those are functions of teams making a decision.
Draft position is never irrelevant, ever. when you pick a top 10 player you're looking to get a franchise player, if he's not scoring 40 a year then he's a scrub. Contract matters even less then draft position

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04-05-2013, 09:32 AM
  #538
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
(1) A player's draft position is irrelevant when discussing whether a player can play in the NHL, or whether such a player is a "scrub".

(2)Please research.

Here are the 10 6th overall picks take from 1997 to 2006:

Daniel Tkaczuk
Rico Fata
Brian Finley
Scott Hartnell
Mikko Koivu
Scottie Upshall
Milan Michalek
Al Montoya
Gilbert Brule
Derrick Brassard

Brassard looks to be the 4th best player of the bunch.
1) Wrong, Draft position is never irrelevant
2) means nothing

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04-05-2013, 09:44 AM
  #539
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Never really bought this. Up until last month, Brassard was very questionable 5 on 5. That is NOT a 1st or 2nd line player.

If Brassard continues adequate 5 on 5 play, the Rangers will have gotten a pretty good player. He's also seemed to have figured out faceoffs as well. If he wins half of his defensive zone faceoffs, that will help out the Rangers immensely. Brassard was gawd awful on defensive zone draws. That was a huge issue.

With his past short comings, you just couldn't trust him.
Well, he's not a 3rd line player because of the faceoff stat you just mentioned and his weak defense and backchecking. He's not a 4th line grind and thump energy guy. That only leaves two other options.

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04-05-2013, 09:55 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by TheDoctorLies View Post
I'm from Columbus. I grew up around hockey and in a hockey family. I've watched the Bluejackets for years, so I know what Brassard is capable of. He's not going to be asked to play a checking role on the third line in New York. He will likely see around the same amount of ice time on our third line and PP that he saw a night in Columbus. If he can produce about on par with his last two seasons in Columbus we will be more than happy to have him.

You apparently think there is no place for a guy like Brassard in the NHL. You have to remember that Columbus hasn't exactly been a beacon of decent hockey, well, ever. A lot of people on this board during the Nash trade saga were claiming that Nash was a much better player than his stats indicated and was dragged down by the pure awfulness that was the Jackets roster over the years. Why couldn't the same be true of Brassard, except on a smaller scale? Barring injury or significant improvement on Brassard's part he won't be seeing an opponent's top defensive pair aside from on the power play.

He isn't some savior for the Rangers but he most assuredly is not the "scrub" some people on this board have described him as.
Your Career is what you make of it. Thats the best line of advice I'd offer Derick Brassard.

Not having enough talent on the whole team aside, Derick could have stepped up and tried to be a leader... He didn't. He could've taken criticism and benching/scratches/line demotions as learning experiences... He didn't.... He didn't have to be a (rumored) ringleader of both tank jobs on coaching (Hitch and Arniel)... But he (rumored) was.

He was given every oppurtunity, oddly enough, by a guy that didn't even draft him, to be something he'd never live up to...

When the book is written on Derick Brassard's career, it will be one of disappointment and unfulfilled potential Until about the half way point.... Where it goes from there, we'll see.

His game is His game. Its just not conducive to playing in a "checking role", and up until the trade, thats about the best minutes he should be garnering. This isn't the Quebec League anymore, this is the NHL.

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04-05-2013, 10:00 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Your Career is what you make of it. Thats the best line of advice I'd offer Derick Brassard.

Not having enough talent on the whole team aside, Derick could have stepped up and tried to be a leader... He didn't. He could've taken criticism and benching/scratches/line demotions as learning experiences... He didn't.... He didn't have to be a (rumored) ringleader of both tank jobs on coaching (Hitch and Arniel)... But he (rumored) was.

He was given every oppurtunity, oddly enough, by a guy that didn't even draft him, to be something he'd never live up to...

When the book is written on Derick Brassard's career, it will be one of disappointment and unfulfilled potential Until about the half way point.... Where it goes from there, we'll see.

His game is His game. Its just not conducive to playing in a "checking role", and up until the trade, thats about the best minutes he should be garnering. This isn't the Quebec League anymore, this is the NHL.
Leader of the tank job? WTF? Was he telling Mason to suck? Telling Arniel to forget how to coach halfway through his time here? Did he piss off Carter and Nash or something?

I know he's gone, but jesus, you don't have to make things up to say his career here wasn't a great success/what it should have been. His play does a good enough job.

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04-05-2013, 10:04 AM
  #542
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Well, he's not a 3rd line player because of the faceoff stat you just mentioned and his weak defense and backchecking. He's not a 4th line grind and thump energy guy. That only leaves two other options.
Not really, but I'll let you continue on with old school thinking.

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04-05-2013, 10:26 AM
  #543
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From my hockey fan viewpoint, here's my assessment after one game. Gaborik has allowed the Jackets to have a legitimate top nine. You have to keep Gaborik together with Anisimov and Prospal. They looked dangerous on every shift. Also, I loved, LOVED the Calvert-Letestu-Atkinson line last night. They absolutely skated circles around the Preds and are an absolute pain in the ass to play against. They will eat slower teams alive. Umberger-Johansen-Foligno is your crash and bang line. They will match up against Backes line tonight.

Playoffs or not, this club is bringing back the excitement.

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04-05-2013, 10:29 AM
  #544
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Hi o Hi o. bitter or sweet, im pleased that Gaborik has not rainmaker status. I hope/bet and wish this team is goin to interwine nicely and make the playoffs. kippis

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04-05-2013, 10:37 AM
  #545
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It's official. Kekalainen hates children.

He's got the right attitude to be a Jackets fan. I say we keep him.

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04-05-2013, 10:43 AM
  #546
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Not really, but I'll let you continue on with old school thinking.
Care to back that up with some theory of your own?

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04-05-2013, 10:55 AM
  #547
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If the Rangers are getting a player that is going to post 40+ point pace from the 3rd line (which IS where he will be playing) then I am fine with that.
But that's a very similar catch to the situation here, hence why he's been tabbed by many as a tweener.

Part of his game makes him seem overqualified for 3rd line duty, but the other half makes him underqualified and that's going to rear its head if he's going to be called upon to crash and pester and bang.

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04-05-2013, 11:03 AM
  #548
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It's official. Kekalainen hates children.

Wow that's dedication for the game.

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04-05-2013, 11:47 AM
  #549
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It's official. Kekalainen hates children.

My six year old son had the absolute opposite reaction. It was like I told him he could have unlimited ice cream.

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04-05-2013, 12:42 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by KSUBlueJacket View Post
Draft position is never irrelevant, ever. when you pick a top 10 player you're looking to get a franchise player, if he's not scoring 40 a year then he's a scrub. Contract matters even less then draft position
This is a laughable argument. Draft position can make a young player a pleasant surprise or a disappointment, but when you consider where they play in the lineup, it is not a relevant question. Any coach who is making decisions based on where some GM picked a player seven years ago ought to be fired.

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2) means nothing
And as to your latter point, that you expect franchise players in the top 10, and the fact that you consider it meaningless that such a tiny fraction of 6th overall picks attain that status, you must realize that the only way to remain consistent with those thoughts is to cast away the majority of high-drafted players as scrubs? Wouldn't it better to just adjust your expectations to the reality of what draft position entails?

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