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[BUF/MIN] Jason Pominville & 4th rounder for Johan Larsson, Matt Hackett, 1st & 2nd

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Old
04-04-2013, 12:54 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Tomorrow is going to suck not having Pominville in the lineup.

Going to be a weird feeling that's for sure.
I imagine most of the guys in the Sabres 'room think the same thing. Vanek in particular.


And regarding watching a game: my son is trying to weasel his way into staying up to watch the Wild-Kings game tonight. He's 8... DVR is a wonderful thing.

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Originally Posted by HDZx View Post
In the NHL, already established players don't come cheap. Larsson could be a bust, I am doubtful, but anybody could be a bust or be amazing. I think this trade works for both teams.
At the end of the day, that's key. Minny gets a top-6, all-situations RW for this year and next (at least) and are clearly on an upswing. This augments their big summer moves and adds another strong piece to their roster by using their robust stockpile of prospects. Buffalo gets prospect help in areas of need in their pipeline as well as the coin of most rebuilding projects -- draft picks.

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04-04-2013, 12:58 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by Insomniac99 View Post
******* ******** ‏@*************** 3m
Source in MTL: #Habs were in on Pominville till the end. But Bergevin refused to give 1st+Beaulieu+Eller. #MNWild outbid them. #Sabres
Beaulieu was on everybody's list, which is not for nothing...same case as for Subban 4 years ago when he still hadn't played an NHL game. High level prospects should never be traded unless the piece that you are getting is a top 20 player that would land you a cup in the very short term.

Not the case with Pomminville, as much as I like him, but I am not surprised with Minny given the two ridiculous contracts they gave this summer. Bravo to Regier who stole the show...can't wait to see what he will land for Miller! I guess the old saying that there is a sucker born every minute still stands in the NHL.

Good work MB for not biting into this and sticking to his plan. We love Pomminville but not to the point of paying "retail plus".

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04-04-2013, 12:59 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Well that settles it ! Patrick Kane is coming to Buffalo! Considering he was born here, grew up here and lives here in the off season That means absolutely jack **** about players and where they will go. If Vanek hits the open market he will go where the $$$ and best chance to win is and that surely won't be Minnesota.

Vanek doesn't want to be part of a rebuild. He didn't say he was leaving no matter what. Vanek has been a part of Buffalo far longer then Minnesota now. He played 2 years of college. He's played EIGHT YEARS HERE.
So signing Parise and Suter had absolutely nothing to do with?

Not saying we get Vanek (because I don't think we will), but you're wrong there.

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04-04-2013, 01:06 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
Goalies just seem like a different market, you don't see goalies being traded for high valued assets because it's basically a crap shoot. If you have a good defense, you can cover up for deficiencies in net. But what do I know, Bishop was traded for Conacher and a 2nd.

I agree with you slightly about Regier. Regier's one redeeming trait is that he is a wizard at trades. I too would like to see the return he could get for Vanek. Especially if a team was desperate for a scoring punch. He needs to show he can build a contender, it's nice to win trades but if you're not translating that into winning games it's pointless.
To be fair, the last high profile goalie (with a good contract) to be dealt was Luongo, and he netted a good return at the time. If we look at recent trades, a proven Leclaire got Vermette + 2nd, an unproven Lindback got basically a late first, and a slightly proven Bishop got a ROY candidate +. I think good goalies on manageable contracts still have huge value, if you can get more than one party interested. With Miller, you are bound to get 2-5 teams interested.

I think as fans, we undermine the value of a good contract. Miller @ 6.25 for one more year + flexibility to sign him at your prefered deal gives him extra value.

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04-04-2013, 01:07 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Marlowe Syn View Post
So with the presumption of Granlund still being the heir apparent to the #2C slot and possibly #1C down the road. Really wouldn't that make Larsson's ceiling as a Wild player #3C? We got Brodziak as #3C and he still has many years of good hockey left in him.
I'm souring on Granlund and I don't like Brodziak much as a top nine center. Granlund is looking more and more like a top six winger like Bouchard and less like the superstar playmaker and scorer he was projected to be.

Brodziak I think is better suited as fourth line center or possibly third line winger as a more defensive minded guy. He has brick hands and very limited offense. Which makes him about as good as any other third line center the Wild ever had, but the Wild want to be good, not be terrible like they usually are.

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I think he signs a 5x5 deal with Minny at the end of his contract
That would be my assumption...not bad, but then he's 37 at the end of the deal...

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Originally Posted by Marlo Stanfield View Post
Anyone else feel like Buffalo had a deal in place to trade Miller after this trade that fell through? I mean, this all but ensures Miller is gone by the draft or offseason but I had a hunch that he was on his way out as well
That's what I thought too, but as regarded as Hackett is, I think he's still a year away from being NHL starter material.

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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Pominville is a good winger, a 1st line player, but I wouldn't call him a true star. This is a star type return.
Definitely agree with that. I thought this kind of package would get a better player than Pominville, who for as much as he accomplished is 30 years old and winding down offensively.

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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I don't see how a couple of B prospects, a late first, and a 2nd in 2014 is such an overpayment.
Larsson is an A prospect. Unless I'm mistaken in what a B prospect is.

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04-04-2013, 01:27 PM
  #681
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"Definitely agree with that. I thought this kind of package would get a better player than Pominville, who for as much as he accomplished is 30 years old and winding down offensively."

Pominville had the second highest point total of his career last year, and has 25 points so far this year. What makes you think he is winding down offensively?

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04-04-2013, 01:36 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
So signing Parise and Suter had absolutely nothing to do with?

Not saying we get Vanek (because I don't think we will), but you're wrong there.
Totally agree.

I am not so sure we don't get Vanek. I can never underestimate the power that is college hockey in this state. Vanek knows this area, he was a Minnesota Gopher after all. He has ties here. Not saying it's a done deal either. I just believe the Wild could be on his radar when he decides where to go because he has a history in Minnesota. Some people do not understand how huge college hockey is in this state either. I know Vanek does. Again, not a done deal but for the other poster to suggest it's out of the question is not right for sure.

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04-04-2013, 01:47 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by KPRGol View Post
Vanek's wife is also from Stillwater. I think it is hilarious if the Wild keep trying to take advantage of Minnesota connections and friendships.
What I find funny is how all the big market media and fans laughed at the thought of Parise, let alone, Suter, remotely signing in a place called Minnesota. I had two people who live in big markets laugh in my face when I said the Wild were going to land Minnesota's own, Parise. I mentioned how he had a house just recently built here. Again, laughter. No one expected it would happen who wasn't from Minnesota or had knowledge about Minnesota, it was almost a joke. Yet his ties to Minnesota did count, Suter's too, didn't they?

This state is called the State of Hockey for a reason. It's a hot bed for hockey on every level. Any player who has ties here has to feel a draw to this state on a professional level. I find it funny that so many people do not seem to understand this.

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04-04-2013, 01:57 PM
  #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
"Definitely agree with that. I thought this kind of package would get a better player than Pominville, who for as much as he accomplished is 30 years old and winding down offensively."

Pominville had the second highest point total of his career last year, and has 25 points so far this year. What makes you think he is winding down offensively?
A while back I ran the numbers:





Your average scorer peaks around 26 and then starts to decline. Nobody lasts forever.

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04-04-2013, 02:02 PM
  #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
A while back I ran the numbers:

Your average scorer peaks around 26 and then starts to decline. Nobody lasts forever.
Just because the average player peaks at 26 doesn't mean every player is declining starting at 27. Look at the Sedins. Hell, look at M. Koivu. I'm not saying Jason Pominville is gonna come in and light it up with career highs, but it's not unreasonable to think he has at least a couple 70 point seasons left in him playing with Parise and Koivu.

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04-04-2013, 02:31 PM
  #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
A while back I ran the numbers:





Your average scorer peaks around 26 and then starts to decline. Nobody lasts forever.
But if you take a look t the specific player you're talking about rther than generalities:
-Pominville extremely rarely gets injured, odds of him falling off due to injury are very low
-He's never relied on speed to get his points, so losing speed as he ages shouldn't affect his point totals much
-He had one of the best seasons of his career last year and has always been consistent

I don't think he's the kind of guy you're going to see s sudden, steep drop-off with. He will continue to be a good player for several seasons, IMO. Maybe not as good as he is now, but he'll still be a valuable contributing top 6er.

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04-04-2013, 02:36 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by J StClair28 View Post
Just because the average player peaks at 26 doesn't mean every player is declining starting at 27. Look at the Sedins. Hell, look at M. Koivu. I'm not saying Jason Pominville is gonna come in and light it up with career highs, but it's not unreasonable to think he has at least a couple 70 point seasons left in him playing with Parise and Koivu.
No, but take a gander at the type of player that still produces at an older age. By and large they aren't energy guys. They're supremely skilled and tend to look like floaters. Jagr, Selanne - those two are not going all-out every shift. They wouldn't have made it to 40 otherwise. The Sedins and Koivu are the same type of player. Big, skilled, kinda lazy in a way. But that style extends their career.

That's why I expect both Parise and Pominville to be on the downsides of their careers already even if the league-wide trend wasn't in that direction as well. If their rate of decline is slow, you're okay for a while. If their rate is faster, you're in big trouble. Does Pominville have 70-point seasons left? I suppose it can happen, but remember that he's only done that twice in his career, one of those five years ago, and he's had no shortage of quality linemates. He's never been a star, just a very solid all-around player. The Wild paid star value to get him.

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04-04-2013, 02:54 PM
  #688
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No, but take a gander at the type of player that still produces at an older age. By and large they aren't energy guys. They're supremely skilled and tend to look like floaters. Jagr, Selanne - those two are not going all-out every shift. They wouldn't have made it to 40 otherwise. The Sedins and Koivu are the same type of player. Big, skilled, kinda lazy in a way. But that style extends their career.

That's why I expect both Parise and Pominville to be on the downsides of their careers already even if the league-wide trend wasn't in that direction as well. If their rate of decline is slow, you're okay for a while. If their rate is faster, you're in big trouble. Does Pominville have 70-point seasons left? I suppose it can happen, but remember that he's only done that twice in his career, one of those five years ago, and he's had no shortage of quality linemates. He's never been a star, just a very solid all-around player. The Wild paid star value to get him.
You haven't watched Poms play much have you? The guy hasn't been involved in a single after whistle scrum in his life.

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04-04-2013, 03:37 PM
  #689
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I imagine most of the guys in the Sabres 'room think the same thing. Vanek in particular.

And regarding watching a game: my son is trying to weasel his way into staying up to watch the Wild-Kings game tonight. He's 8... DVR is a wonderful thing.
If I was Vanek I would be absolutely saddened, they seem like best friends. Especially if that story about him driving Pommers to the airport is true, it would be so tough on Thomas.

You need to let your kid watch that game at some point! It must be absolutely devastating for him, kids grow so affectionate towards players - I'm 19 and I don't even want to think about Jason playing for another team. I remember when my dad told me that Briere wasn't on the team anymore and I just though "no that can't be true, he isn't allowed to play for another team!"

What the hell am I going to do with my Pominville jersey now?

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04-04-2013, 08:49 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Sure you do.

When you're making a run at the cup you do whatever you have to.

I love what we got for Poms, but I love what the Wild did too.

The goal is the cup, not to have the best prospects and picks. It's the NHL not HFboards.
MIN might not even make it into the playoffs, let alone the cup, don't count your chickens before they hatch wins before the buzzer

Pomminville is a good player, top 6, but he's not worth a first, a second AND two prospects. Yes MIN can afford to do that because they're knee deep in good prospects, but I still don't have to like it, especially with what I think is a very good draft coming up.

Don't get me wrong, this is a good player to get, but I think the price is to high. If he carries them in the playoffs though, I'll be wrong. So, who knows!

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04-04-2013, 09:00 PM
  #691
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MIN might not even make it into the playoffs, let alone the cup, don't count your chickens before they hatch wins before the buzzer

Pomminville is a good player, top 6, but he's not worth a first, a second AND two prospects. Yes MIN can afford to do that because they're knee deep in good prospects, but I still don't have to like it, especially with what I think is a very good draft coming up.

Don't get me wrong, this is a good player to get, but I think the price is to high. If he carries them in the playoffs though, I'll be wrong. So, who knows!
With Cullen and Heatley lost to injuries, this is a timely trade for the Wild. High price, for sure, but doing nothing and missing the playoffs is a higher price.

This trade helps keep the whole season from going down the crapper.

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04-04-2013, 09:24 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
If I was Vanek I would be absolutely saddened, they seem like best friends. Especially if that story about him driving Pommers to the airport is true, it would be so tough on Thomas.

You need to let your kid watch that game at some point! It must be absolutely devastating for him, kids grow so affectionate towards players - I'm 19 and I don't even want to think about Jason playing for another team. I remember when my dad told me that Briere wasn't on the team anymore and I just though "no that can't be true, he isn't allowed to play for another team!"

What the hell am I going to do with my Pominville jersey now?
My first experience with death that I remember was dealing with Tim Horton's passing when I was a wee lad. I couldn't understand why he'd played and now was gone, that just wasn't possible. Ah youth.

He's happy for Poms to be going to a strong team -- he already knew about Suter and Parise and the fact the Sabres have stunk this year has allowed him to grow a bit more callous regarding his attachments.

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04-05-2013, 02:36 AM
  #693
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Sabres will retain 900k of Pominvilles cap hit next year and what ever is pro rated of 900k remaining this season.

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04-05-2013, 02:39 AM
  #694
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Sabres will retain 900k of Pominvilles cap hit next year and what ever is pro rated of 900k remaining this season.
Source?

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04-05-2013, 02:47 AM
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-- I have confirmed the Buffalo Sabres is picking up part of Pominville's $5.5 million salary and $5.3 million cap hit this season and next. The Wild right now is a little more than $100,000 from the cap ceiling, which is why the Wild's got to be careful with its callups. If Buffalo wasn't picking up part of the salary, the Wild would be above the cap. Together with the webmaster of capgeek.com tonight, we went over numbers. He estimates that Buffalo must be picking up around $225,000 of Pominville's salary this year, which would translate to around $900,000 next year.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/201553901.html

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04-05-2013, 11:05 AM
  #696
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As per @Russostrib #Sabres picked up part of remainder of Pominville's salary this season. Otherwise #Wild would've been over salary cap.
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per Capgeek BUF retains 795k

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04-05-2013, 11:11 AM
  #697
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
So signing Parise and Suter had absolutely nothing to do with?

Not saying we get Vanek (because I don't think we will), but you're wrong there.
$$$$ talks. They picked Minnesota out of the places willing to give them 100 mil. But if another franchise offered a lot more, they weren't taking a discount.

And again, I wanna know how you plan on re-signing Poms to 6+ a year and then fit in Vaneks 7+ a year considering you needed the Sabres to retain part of Pominvilles salary/cap hit for this AND next season. Minnesota doesn't have the room to add in Vanek.Thats what happens when you give out 100 million dollar contracts.

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04-05-2013, 11:15 AM
  #698
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Originally Posted by jameswrjobe53 View Post
Spector's Hockey ‏@SpectorsHockey 47s
As per @Russostrib #Sabres picked up part of remainder of Pominville's salary this season. Otherwise #Wild would've been over salary cap.
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per Capgeek BUF retains 795k
Makes sense. If Buffalo hadn't done that, one of the pieces we got probably would've been replaced with a cap dump. Glad the new CBA allows GMs to do that.

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04-05-2013, 12:10 PM
  #699
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No way the Wild would get Vanek and Pominville on big contracts.

Suter - $7.5m
Parise - $7.5m
Koivu - $6.8m
Pominville ~ $5m
Vanek ~ $7.5m

Then you have these guys on their second contracts:

Brodin
Granlund
Coyle
Zucker
Kuemper

You're looking at $45-50m for 10 players.

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04-05-2013, 12:12 PM
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I'll say this for Pominville, he looks like he's in fantastic shape, very lean like Cullen, not big and bloated looking like Heatley. That tells me he's less likely to slow down and wear down in his 30's.

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