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Thomas Vanek (at the draft)

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Old
04-05-2013, 11:10 AM
  #51
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Staals scored 50 points once. Vaneks career low is 48 (rookie year and was getting 14 mins a game) and he averages 68 points a season along with 35 goals.7 straight 25+ goal seasons makes Vanek an elite goal scorer. He will bring back a lot.

If Vanek is dealt (I hope he isn't but there's a chance he will be) you can bet anything Regier will get a massive return for Vanek. Think Mike Richards type return. Elite prospect + good young top 9 winger/top 4 dman and a 1st round pick. If that isn't matched then I re-sign Vanek and be content having a top 10 goal scorer for the next 6 years.
Vanek with 1 yr left and at his age, will get no where near the Richards return.

Not sure why Buffalo fans don't just look towards the Pommer deal for a realistic package comparable

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04-05-2013, 11:15 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Vanek with 1 yr left and at his age, will get no where near the Richards return.

Not sure why Buffalo fans don't just look towards the Pommer deal for a realistic package comparable
But then you thought Pommer would return something like Peverley + 2nd + Koklachev (sp?). Regier has shown he can pull really good value in trades. Not really sure what to expect if he moves Vanek. I'm sure he'd be looking for a similar or better package than what he got for Pominville, though I'm not sure he would get it.

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04-05-2013, 11:18 AM
  #53
Tyler Myers
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its not a deadline deal, teams have plenty of time to negotiate an extension with vanek in the offseason or just keep him as a rental. his contract situation is a bonus...

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04-05-2013, 11:30 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
But then you thought Pommer would return something like Peverley + 2nd + Koklachev (sp?). Regier has shown he can pull really good value in trades. Not really sure what to expect if he moves Vanek. I'm sure he'd be looking for a similar or better package than what he got for Pominville, though I'm not sure he would get it.
as far as trade value... was I close?
2nd = hackett
koko = larsson
peverley = 1st

I agree he should be looking for a similar package to what he got for pominville.... no one is trading an elite prospect (Schenn) for 1 yr of Vanek.

Everyone always seems to include that blue chip prospect... and those guys just don't get traded for a 30 yr old winger with 1 year left.

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04-05-2013, 11:34 AM
  #55
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I love Vanek. Has been my favorite Sabre for years. But knowing that teams will pay an arm and a leg and then some, I just don't know if I could hold onto him.

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04-05-2013, 11:46 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Cbj will not trade for him. Ditto for Dallas, they're in rebuild mode.

Nashville I could see them doing it.

Philly would offer something around Couturier and a 1st and I think it would be in the best interest of both franchise.

Ultimately, if I was GM of both team I'd like something like this

Regier : I want Couturier back, A first, a roster player(Winger/Dman/Goalie)+Other pick if the player is not super good.

Holmgren
Vanek+One of the C prospects (Larsson, Armia, Girgenson.)
I would do a Philly trade if it went down like this

Philly trades Couturier,Simmonds, Briere, 1st

Buffalo trades Vanek, Girgensons, 3rd

For Vanek it's Couturier and a 1st advantage Philly

Buffalo takes Briere's contract, and gives Girgensons and a 3rd, Huge advantage Philly

Buffalo get's Simmonds to equal it out


Last edited by sabrescupbound: 04-05-2013 at 12:03 PM. Reason: i forgot
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04-05-2013, 11:47 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Everyone always seems to include that blue chip prospect... and those guys just don't get traded for a 30 yr old winger with 1 year left.
The market could drive Vanek's return a little higher than what it probably should be simply because there's a very good chance Vanek is the only "elite" talent to hit the market for at least a couple years, and I'd think any team that considers trading for him does so with the intent of resigning him. I could easily see Darcy trying to market the deal as Vanek + 1 years' worth of negotiating rights.

Malkin and the Sedins will likely never make it to UFA, I can see Gaborik getting resigned in Columbus, and Heatley is officially in "damaged goods" territory now.

With all that said, I agree the odds Vanek returns a legit blue chipper are very small. I'd be pleased with a Pominville-esque return. Ideally though, it would be nice to pry away a 1st round pick with a little more chutzpah (6 to 10 range as opposed to 20-30).

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04-05-2013, 12:14 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
as far as trade value... was I close?
2nd = hackett
koko = larsson
peverley = 1st
If you assign those values, I guess you were

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04-05-2013, 12:33 PM
  #59
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Nino+Johan Sudstrom+13' 1st

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04-05-2013, 12:36 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
as far as trade value... was I close?
2nd = hackett
koko = larsson
peverley = 1st
More like:

2nd = 2nd
Koko = Larsson
Peverley =/= 1st + Hackett

You undershot by quite a bit, but to be fair, I think most of us are very surprised by how well Regier did here. I'll leave the trading of Vanek to him, because he's pretty good at pulling off surprises. How many of us really thought Kassian was worth Hodgson last year?

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04-05-2013, 12:56 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
If you assign those values, I guess you were
those a fair values based on market trades over the last few years

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04-05-2013, 12:57 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
More like:

2nd = 2nd
Koko = Larsson
Peverley =/= 1st + Hackett

You undershot by quite a bit, but to be fair, I think most of us are very surprised by how well Regier did here. I'll leave the trading of Vanek to him, because he's pretty good at pulling off surprises. How many of us really thought Kassian was worth Hodgson last year?
Zubrus = 1st + Novotny

and Zubrus was a rental... Pevs has years

thanks for playing

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04-05-2013, 12:59 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrescupbound View Post
I would do a Philly trade if it went down like this

Philly trades Couturier,Simmonds, Briere, 1st

Buffalo trades Vanek, Girgensons, 3rd

For Vanek it's Couturier and a 1st advantage Philly

Buffalo takes Briere's contract, and gives Girgensons and a 3rd, Huge advantage Philly

Buffalo get's Simmonds to equal it out
Buffalo would ask for more if they have to take Brierre's cap hit

As it stands ...Vanek (7.1)... Courturier+Simmons (5.4)

Having brierre's cap hit would kill them in UFA market in 2014. Leino was the potential buyout in 2014.

Brierre/Courtier/Simmonds roughlly equals Vanek/Pominville.

i didnt hear about this until recently---Buffalo ate some of Pominvilles salary--about $800,000 per yr.

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04-05-2013, 12:59 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Zubrus = 1st + Novotny

and Zubrus was a rental... Pevs has years

thanks for playing
Ok you are right. In fact, your proposal is probably better.

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04-05-2013, 01:08 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
More like:

2nd = 2nd
Koko = Larsson
Peverley =/= 1st + Hackett

You undershot by quite a bit, but to be fair, I think most of us are very surprised by how well Regier did here. I'll leave the trading of Vanek to him, because he's pretty good at pulling off surprises. How many of us really thought Kassian was worth Hodgson last year?

In my eyes Peverley=/= 1st more like a 3rd at best.

Looking at past history. Regier got what was expected.

i think many people on here underestimated Pominvilles value because he isn't that well known of a player outside of Buffalo and their division rivals.

Historical trades values are 2 young players (top 10 prospects/under 24 players)) + 1st.

That was roughly what he got.
the reason they flipped 2014 picks where Buffalo got MN 2nd for BUf 4th (estimated to be about 50 spots) was to make up for possibly Regier asking for Kuemper but MN insisted on giving back Hackett which as a compromise had then flip picks.

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04-05-2013, 01:13 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
In my eyes Peverley=/= 1st more like a 3rd at best.

Looking at past history. Regier got what was expected.

i think many people on here underestimated Pominvilles value because he isn't that well known of a player outside of Buffalo and their division rivals.

Historical trades values are 2 young players (top 10 prospects/under 24 players)) + 1st.

That was roughly what he got.
the reason they flipped 2014 picks where Buffalo got MN 2nd for BUf 4th (estimated to be about 50 spots) was to make up for possibly Regier asking for Kuemper but MN insisted on giving back Hackett which as a compromise had then flip picks.
Peverley =/= 1st in any circumstances.

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04-05-2013, 01:23 PM
  #67
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Buffalo has a big gap in their D development. I would say something like:

To Buffalo: Josi+Wilson
To Nashville: Vanek

We need some NHL bodies, especially on the blueline.

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04-05-2013, 01:28 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Buffalo has a big gap in their D development. I would say something like:

To Buffalo: Josi+Wilson
To Nashville: Vanek

We need some NHL bodies, especially on the blueline.
That's why we should move up in the draft like last year and grab a guy like Pulock or Morrissey with Minnesota's pick. Or hope Minny doesn't make the playoffs/gets knocked out first round.


Last edited by couture23: 04-05-2013 at 01:34 PM.
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04-05-2013, 01:37 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
Nino+Johan Sudstrom+13' 1st
i would do that

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04-05-2013, 01:39 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by WestleySnipez View Post
He's a pure sniper. Look at teams in need of scoring, can't see them trading him to ANYONE in the East, unless the offer was to good to turn down (Amazing Prospect, 1st Round Draft +)

I think he moves to the west like Pomms did. Value though? Given the season he's had so far, I can see teams trading a 1st Rounder, Top Prospect for him.

I could only really see him going to Nashville, Phoenix, MAYBE Edmonton.
All the other teams in the West either have no cap space, no/limited ice time for him to play, or are rebuilding.

In the East, I see Ottawa and NY Rangers wanting him. But the likelihood of a trade between the Rangers and Sabres is slim.

Nashville: 1st Round Pick 2013/2014 and Filip Forsberg(Maybe thats why they brought him on?! lol).
In the defensive minded system of the Preds, scoring 25-30 goals would really help them out.

Phoenix: David Rundblad/Brandon Gormley and 2 2nds 2013 and 14
Would give Buffalo almost a surefire 2nd defenseman to play with Myers, Vanek replacing Vrbata/Hanzel on the 1st line wouldn't be bad. I think he could score 25 goals with those two. If they landed a half decent center, possibly 30.

Ottawa: Matt Puempel, 1st 2013, 3rd 2014
With Conacher in now, I think Puempel is tradeable(correct me if I'm wrong Ottawa fans) the 1st is a must for rebuilding Buffalo, 3rd for incentive. Vanek would be well worth it though, a sniper with more skill than Michalek, would help out on the PP. Michalek could play with Turris, giving the Sens a little more depth.
Of these, I'd take the first. Multiple firsts to package and move up in the draft plus an elite prospect = rebuild like a mofo.

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04-05-2013, 01:42 PM
  #71
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If I'm getting rid of Vanek, its going to be for a couple of young studs, they more important one being a young shutdown D-man to pair with Myers. Myers absolutely flourished with Tallinder, who was a no nonsense defensive presence. Our D is filled with a bunch of tweeners, and no true shutdown D-man. I think that is the most imperative step for the Sabres at this point.

After that, I'd want a young scoring winger coming back to help replace some of Vanek's production.

Not sure what team would be able offer first or both of those needs, or what Buffalo would need to add to get it done, but thats what this team needs.

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04-05-2013, 01:44 PM
  #72
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Call me crazy, but I could definitely see Philly in on this.

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04-05-2013, 01:48 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Call me crazy, but I could definitely see Philly in on this.
Buffalo needs elite goal scorers, which Vanek is. I have no idea what Philly would offer.

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04-05-2013, 02:06 PM
  #74
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Call me crazy, but I could definitely see Philly in on this.
I really don't like Philly as a trading partner unless they're paying with a top ten 1st. I think we're good with Couts-type centers now, we have bigger holes to fill.

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04-05-2013, 02:07 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Buffalo would ask for more if they have to take Brierre's cap hit

As it stands ...Vanek (7.1)... Courturier+Simmons (5.4)

Having brierre's cap hit would kill them in UFA market in 2014. Leino was the potential buyout in 2014.

Brierre/Courtier/Simmonds roughlly equals Vanek/Pominville.

i didnt hear about this until recently---Buffalo ate some of Pominvilles salary--about $800,000 per yr.
True, but if we get rid of Vanek and go into total rebuild mode, do you think we'll be competing for a cup by 2014? It'll only be two years left on a bad contract. So we eat it. Then when the contracts up, our young guys have a year or two of experience, and we start going for playoff runs. Plus we'd have Simmonds and Courturier to help build. If ( big if ) this was to happen our 2015 Sabres could have Simmonds, Courturier, Ennis, Hodgson, Flynn, Foligno, Grigorenko, Armia, Myers, Sekera, Mcnabb, Pysyk. Plus two top 10 picks in this years draft could be there. (I'm banking on Philly doesn't make the post season)

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