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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 8)

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04-04-2013, 07:50 PM
  #1001
punch1943
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
That's a terrific post Otto. By all accounts the penalty was reduced because the Spits were never notified they were under investigation. What credible governing body would conduct an investigation and never notify the offending party? When the NCAA investigates a program the school is notfied. When the SEC investigates a brokerage house or bank the brokerage house or bank is notified. If the OHL wants to be a credible league they need to make it clear what a punishment is for certain violations. Tough to have credibility when there's zero transparency. They don't care about credibility in the eyes of fans or public only if they continue feed players to the AHL and NHL.
At the time of the sanctions I had heard that the appeal was going to be that the Spits weren't advised that they were under investigation. I was told that this was a part of the rules set down by the governors to help clean up the under the table deals.. Once the sanctions were reduced I assumed (silly me) that was the reason. Now looking at what's being said I wonder if the Spits came to some kind of arrangement for future considerations...if we get to host the Memorial Cup I'll wonder if that was part of the settlement.

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04-04-2013, 07:56 PM
  #1002
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- The NCAA comparison cracks me up because the NCAA would have been far harsher. Look at what they did to USC for Reggie Bush.
We can't possibly know this because we don't know what the Spits org "crime" was.

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04-04-2013, 08:20 PM
  #1003
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Even with the punishments, I think Windsor should have gone against the sanctions the whole time. Going against it means you are strong enough to stand your side, and obviously because a compensation prize was on the table the OHL didn't feel very strong with their side. Is the possibilty of all the sanctions removed and getting an apology from Mr.Branch worth a few picks?

If it was a former Spit/worker that ratted the Spits out, we shoulda signed Kevin Bailie and get all the London secrets. My opinion is every team does that in some way, it's just a matter of who gets caught. Even just for a B-card, he would have helped us in meltdown situations.

And a fact I learned today: Zack Percy also plays on the St. Clair college Mens baseball team!

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04-04-2013, 08:29 PM
  #1004
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^Campbell showed up at the Alumni game - why would he screw over the Spits and then have the gall to show his face if he did?
Didn't think of that but Campbell is the other name I had heard. Assuming that Dark is the core of the problem, there is a connection between Dark and Campbell.

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04-04-2013, 08:38 PM
  #1005
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Even with the punishments, I think Windsor should have gone against the sanctions the whole time. Going against it means you are strong enough to stand your side,
To an extent. If someone is hassling you about something you haven't done, at some point, you're going to say "screw it, whatever." I don't know what the situation is, but perhaps shrugging and accepting was easier than fighting constantly?

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04-04-2013, 09:38 PM
  #1006
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
To an extent. If someone is hassling you about something you haven't done, at some point, you're going to say "screw it, whatever." I don't know what the situation is, but perhaps shrugging and accepting was easier than fighting constantly?
But if you constantly fight, won't that clue them in that they really didn't do it and are showing that you are not goin to accept the fact you cheated when you really didn't?

Sure you might lose a few picks, but what if you won the case?!

It's obviously easier to not have to fight the whole thing, but accepting it does no good too. If they really didn't do anything, does that mean they lost the hosting gig and Day for being lazy?

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04-04-2013, 09:41 PM
  #1007
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Also, could it be a player that could very well have been offered recruitment vilations but never came to Windsor that ratted them out? i.e. J. Shmaltz, Johns, Stolarz even, etc.

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04-04-2013, 10:04 PM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by KyGuy9 View Post
But if you constantly fight, won't that clue them in that they really didn't do it and are showing that you are not goin to accept the fact you cheated when you really didn't?

Sure you might lose a few picks, but what if you won the case?!

It's obviously easier to not have to fight the whole thing, but accepting it does no good too. If they really didn't do anything, does that mean they lost the hosting gig and Day for being lazy?
First, I have zero knowledge of what happened. Just for the record. I'm simply debating the general idea that if you're right, you fight no matter what. I've been in arguments before where I truly believed I was right, but fighting it got too tiresome. I shrug and say "fine, you win."

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04-04-2013, 10:07 PM
  #1009
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
To an extent. If someone is hassling you about something you haven't done, at some point, you're going to say "screw it, whatever." I don't know what the situation is, but perhaps shrugging and accepting was easier than fighting constantly?
Huh? Do you normally admit to things you haven't done? Especially when they shame your "good" name, cost you a couple hundred thousand in cold hard cash and presumably multiple times that in lost gate/playoff revenue? That doesn't seem likely. People plea bargain when they know they're guilty...

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04-04-2013, 10:28 PM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
Huh? Do you normally admit to things you haven't done? Especially when they shame your "good" name, cost you a couple hundred thousand in cold hard cash and presumably multiple times that in lost gate/playoff revenue? That doesn't seem likely. People plea bargain when they know they're guilty...
Courts offer a plea deal when they know their case is less than solid.

See it goes both ways.

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04-04-2013, 11:13 PM
  #1011
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
Huh? Do you normally admit to things you haven't done? Especially when they shame your "good" name, cost you a couple hundred thousand in cold hard cash and presumably multiple times that in lost gate/playoff revenue? That doesn't seem likely. People plea bargain when they know they're guilty...
It's not admitting anything. It's shrugging and walking away. There's a difference.

Again, I don't know anything about this situation, so I haven't a clue what happened.

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04-05-2013, 06:43 AM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
It's not admitting anything. It's shrugging and walking away. There's a difference.

Again, I don't know anything about this situation, so I haven't a clue what happened.
You missed Krazy's point.

Something of this magnitude you don't just "shrug it off and walk away". It's not like someone accused them of staring at someone else's girlfriend. You're talking about major sanctions that are severely punishing your franchise and handicapping it for the next foreseeable future.

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04-05-2013, 08:49 AM
  #1013
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You missed Krazy's point.

Something of this magnitude you don't just "shrug it off and walk away". It's not like someone accused them of staring at someone else's girlfriend. You're talking about major sanctions that are severely punishing your franchise and handicapping it for the next foreseeable future.
It's not a court of law, you're facing the board of governors of the 19 other teams, most of which hate your guts already. Let's also remember why Rychel and Boughner bought the team - Rychel so he could control Kerby's OHL years and Boughner both as a retirement nest egg and to leapfrog up the coaching ranks. What end game do you want in their fighting it to the bitter end? Drag it out in court for a year plus and keep it in the news? Rychel at the time believed that they'd still host the Memorial Cup - they agreed to the settlement because it was all for show - the fine was a non-issue because the Mem Cup hosting would more than cover that, and the first rounder - well Warren thought this years team would be a contender and it would be in the 12-18 range.

The Johnson charge ended any chance though - the case will hit the courts in eight months, and if Johnson is convicted it would be a huge story of a Junior A/CHL player found guilty of **** and Spits would be under the microscope in a major way - and OHL can't risk their Mem Cup host team to that scrutiny, especially when the Spits have a whole lot of skeletons hidden that would be dredged out in any trial.

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04-05-2013, 08:53 AM
  #1014
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There's points to be made for not fighting it... but to simply dismiss it as "**** happens" isn't responsible either.

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04-05-2013, 12:44 PM
  #1015
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This one is earth shattering and game changing at the same time -

Quote:
WSR trades Sby's 13th Rnd '13 to OTT for 13th Rnd '14

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04-05-2013, 01:10 PM
  #1016
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Originally Posted by Libbs View Post
You missed Krazy's point.

Something of this magnitude you don't just "shrug it off and walk away". It's not like someone accused them of staring at someone else's girlfriend. You're talking about major sanctions that are severely punishing your franchise and handicapping it for the next foreseeable future.
No, but even with something like this, at some point, shrugging and accepting MIGHT be better than fighting the long battle.

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04-05-2013, 01:47 PM
  #1017
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Given Windsor is returning 8 defencemen (Sieloff, Koekkok, Ebert, Murphy, Sanvido, Bateman, Brown, Bowen) - would they have taken Sean Day 4th overall?

Sieloff, Koekkoek, Ebert would all graduate after next season and the rest don't grade out as top level guys so we could have made room for him but if the plan was still to go for it next year you'd have to believe we'd be looking at a scoring forward.

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04-05-2013, 02:07 PM
  #1018
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Given Windsor is returning 8 defencemen (Sieloff, Koekkok, Ebert, Murphy, Sanvido, Bateman, Brown, Bowen) - would they have taken Sean Day 4th overall?

Sieloff, Koekkoek, Ebert would all graduate after next season and the rest don't grade out as top level guys so we could have made room for him but if the plan was still to go for it next year you'd have to believe we'd be looking at a scoring forward.
If the spits had the fourth overall pick and the best player at that time was a Dman, you take the best player available period. Idc if the spits had 10 Dman, you deal with that later....look at the oilers 3 first overall picks and 3 forwards...even tho they should have probably taken a Defensman...and arguing about this still is very pointless its like beating your head against a wall, We dont have the first round pick and everyone has to deal with it and move on, have to stop thinking "what if" and just go with it and look to the second round pick and hope to god to find a Gem like we did with Ellis and hope we strike gole in the import draft....This Will be probably the busiest offseason maybe in Franchise history, either way if were going for it or if we unload everything its a garuntee the roster looks different on opening night in September.

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04-05-2013, 02:11 PM
  #1019
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
No, but even with something like this, at some point, shrugging and accepting MIGHT be better than fighting the long battle.
The only way that shrugging and accepting the punishment is if they were promised the hosting gig, otherwise you cannot list a reason that would be strong enough to effectively admit guilt and tarnish your reputation as an organization.

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04-05-2013, 02:35 PM
  #1020
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Given Windsor is returning 8 defencemen (Sieloff, Koekkok, Ebert, Murphy, Sanvido, Bateman, Brown, Bowen) - would they have taken Sean Day 4th overall?

Sieloff, Koekkoek, Ebert would all graduate after next season and the rest don't grade out as top level guys so we could have made room for him but if the plan was still to go for it next year you'd have to believe we'd be looking at a scoring forward.
Yes they would have chosen Day at the 4 hole no question,would have been a perfect
partner with Koekkoek,Bowen after the shenanigans wont be back bank on it,would not surprised to see him moved to Oshawa,plus a rumored deal between Windsor and Erie
would involve another D
As well the Spits would like to sign D-man Bennett Morrison and are interested in
Adam Baughman an USA born dman drafted last yr,though they are concerned that he did not play at a higher level of hockey last yr

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04-05-2013, 02:48 PM
  #1021
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^Must be looking to move a lot of defencemen this off-season. Even if you subtract Bowen we still have seven returning and all would be good enough for consistent playing time. I guess what happens will depend on whether Rychel wants to go for it next year or decides to rebuild.

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04-05-2013, 02:50 PM
  #1022
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^Must be looking to move a lot of defencemen this off-season. Even if you subtract Bowen we still have seven returning and all would be good enough for consistent playing time. I guess what happens will depend on whether Rychel wants to go for it next year or decides to rebuild.
My feeling is that Windsor will sign 1 of Morrison or Baughman,unless someone in the draft changes their minds or a free agent is signed
Still think 1 maybe 2 of those 8 returning will be moved

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04-05-2013, 02:51 PM
  #1023
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Another 1,000+ posts... please proceed to the new Off-Season thread...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1396675

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