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2013 Ducks toughness thread (with updates)

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Old
04-05-2013, 11:31 AM
  #351
TheJoeMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
Comedy
First of all Dallas was taking runs at our players and its gonna get worse.
They are too small and even taking away fighting lines 2-4 are gonna get grinded down physically during the playoffs.
Lol at your examples of toughness as well
You realize don't you that my examples are why we keep winning, you know the object of the game. I don't know what runs you're talking about because I saw one team with the puck all night and the other without it. I didn't any of our players get run over. I also didn't see us taking any penalties and if you've been paying attention to anything but much these men are running into each other you would notice that we're not very good at killing penalties.

Also the whole "wearing out the opponent" thing. Did the Red Wings, Penguins, Blackhawks or Kings have to wear down their opponents when they each won the Cup? I recall watching talented hockey teams beat their opponents with superior skill not superior "toughness." The argument could be made for us in 07 and the Bruins in 11 but those were the styles of those coaches and GMs. This team wouldn't be successful with those types of players and that type of hockey.

I really wish you could learn to enjoy watching a very talented hockey team playing at a high level. It's been a lot of fun. Let me ask you this: would you prefer a team that is full of "tough" players that loses in the first round or this team losing in say the second or third round? I know if they win the Cup or even get there you will be happy because only a crazy person wouldn't be happy that our team that wasn't even supposed to make the playoffs actually made it to the Stanley Cup Final. I'm curious.

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04-05-2013, 11:34 AM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
We won the cup by being the meanest mofos of the league since Broad Street Bullies of the 1970's.

I'm happy if we win the cup but I'm afraid our lack of toughness might be one of the reasons if we don't.
2006-2007 team: 10th in hits 18.7 hits per game, 28th in penalties, 0.86 5min majors

This team: 12th in hits average 23.8 hits per game, 9th in penalties, 0.61 5min majors per game

Over 82 games thats, 20 5min majors less, giving them 50 majors in a year. Which would put them second in 2006-2007, behind only the 2006-2007 Ducks team. This doesn't account for 5min pp, NHL just lists majors and not fights alone, not sure how many 5min pp the 06 team gave up.


I just don't seem to see the huge difference like so many, they are just as physical as the team that won the cup.

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04-05-2013, 11:35 AM
  #353
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Kings last year played very grinding, physical (and defensive) game, they don't belong to the same group as Wings or Pens.

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04-05-2013, 11:40 AM
  #354
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The same thing keeps coming up again and again.. some people like figure skating, some like hard nosed hockey.

Yes, we like to see our team win, and I'm excited about our team winning. But I will still say that for the most part, this season's games are some of the most boring in many years to watch.

"I didn't any of our players get run over."

really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIQmvYSpC6Q

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04-05-2013, 11:42 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by snowave View Post
The same thing keeps coming up again and again.. some people like figure skating, some like hard nosed hockey.

Yes, we like to see our team win, and I'm excited about our team winning. But I will still say that for the most part, this season's games are some of the most boring in many years to watch.

"I didn't any of our players get run over."

really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIQmvYSpC6Q
So because we don't have a pure fighter its not Winniks fault that he wasn't paying attention to the guy coming forward.

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04-05-2013, 11:55 AM
  #356
Eddie Shack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
We won the cup by being the meanest mofos of the league since Broad Street Bullies of the 1970's.

I'm happy if we win the cup but I'm afraid our lack of toughness might be one of the reasons if we don't.
It's always a long shot to win the Cup. 29 teams don't each year. If we don't this place will be filled with "I told you so" posts. If we don't win there will be a laundry list of reasons why. All the mean mofos around here will be fighting to get in their $0.02.

Sure it's always nice to have toughness on the team. But it's only one dimension of a team. You can still win without having the best team in the league at every facet of the game. We all like to see the big booming hits, but that isn't all there is to the game. BM and BB have each done a good job this year and it gets old listening to some people (not you) whine night after night because they aren't getting what they want. If you aren't going to support the team we have, especially when we have either the 2nd or 3rd best record in the league I would suggest you aren't a fan as much as somebody who wants and needs personal attention. While I would say it is hard to argue with the results, some people here seem to take that as a challenge.

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04-05-2013, 12:05 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
Sure it's always nice to have toughness on the team. But it's only one dimension of a team. You can still win without having the best team in the league at every facet of the game. We all like to see the big booming hits, but that isn't all there is to the game..
I'm not saying we should have 3 tough guys like we did in 07, all I want is some actively physical guys who can respond/send a message to opponents.

I don't think that's too much to ask.

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04-05-2013, 12:11 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
I'm not saying we should have 3 tough guys like we did in 07, all I want is some actively physical guys who can respond/send a message to opponents.

I don't think that's too much to ask.
Well when our only options are guys like Staubitz and Leterneau-Leblond I think it is. If we had players capable of taking a regular shift, throwing their weight around and throwing down with a guy who's been running around I would love it. But we don't and most teams don't. Belesky is the only guy we have that fits that bill and I feel like he's done admirably. Whenever I say that people freaked out and say "if he's our enforcer we have problems." Look at the guys he's needed to fight. Those kind of players aren't relevant anymore. The tough guys of the league are also the Matt Belesky's of the league.

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04-05-2013, 12:14 PM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowave View Post
The same thing keeps coming up again and again.. some people like figure skating, some like hard nosed hockey.

Yes, we like to see our team win, and I'm excited about our team winning. But I will still say that for the most part, this season's games are some of the most boring in many years to watch.

"I didn't any of our players get run over."

really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIQmvYSpC6Q
There's a difference between guys taking runs and popping a dude for having his head down.

What's boring about watching great plays, excellent saves and lots of goals?

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04-05-2013, 12:18 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
We won the cup by being the meanest mofos of the league since Broad Street Bullies of the 1970's.

I'm happy if we win the cup but I'm afraid our lack of toughness might be one of the reasons if we don't.
I generally agree with you and wish the team got tougher.

That said, the fact that we were the meanest champion since those Flyers means that it's not the only way to win. It would mean that 30 some champions were not as mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
You realize don't you that my examples are why we keep winning, you know the object of the game. I don't know what runs you're talking about because I saw one team with the puck all night and the other without it. I didn't any of our players get run over. I also didn't see us taking any penalties and if you've been paying attention to anything but much these men are running into each other you would notice that we're not very good at killing penalties.

Also the whole "wearing out the opponent" thing. Did the Red Wings, Penguins, Blackhawks or Kings have to wear down their opponents when they each won the Cup? I recall watching talented hockey teams beat their opponents with superior skill not superior "toughness." The argument could be made for us in 07 and the Bruins in 11 but those were the styles of those coaches and GMs. This team wouldn't be successful with those types of players and that type of hockey.

I really wish you could learn to enjoy watching a very talented hockey team playing at a high level. It's been a lot of fun. Let me ask you this: would you prefer a team that is full of "tough" players that loses in the first round or this team losing in say the second or third round? I know if they win the Cup or even get there you will be happy because only a crazy person wouldn't be happy that our team that wasn't even supposed to make the playoffs actually made it to the Stanley Cup Final. I'm curious.
That's a straw man argument. Because the toughness crowd believe it's the other way around. "Would you prefer our "skilled" team that gets bounced in the first round or a tough team that gets to the second or third round?" Neither hypothetical is more valid than the other.


Last edited by snarktacular: 04-05-2013 at 12:24 PM.
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Old
04-05-2013, 12:31 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
Well when our only options are guys like Staubitz and Leterneau-Leblond I think it is.
That is part of the problem. We need more options.

It's not fair to ask Staubitz to handle opponents heavyweights every night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
Belesky is the only guy we have that fits that bill and I feel like he's done admirably.
Belesky can take on most regular physical players but he can't be asked to take on tougher guys. Besides, he's more valuable on ice, if we sacrifice Belesky to take out opponent's tough guy, we lose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
The tough guys of the league are also the Matt Belesky's of the league.
That's just factually wrong.

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04-05-2013, 12:32 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
I generally agree with you and wish the team got tougher.

That said, the fact that we were the meanest champion since those Flyers means that it's not the only way to win. It would mean that 30 some champions were not as mean.
Like I said, I'm not asking Ducks to be as tough as they were 6 years ago, I hope Ducks had more physical players than they currently have. So something between '07 Ducks and '13 Ducks.

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04-05-2013, 01:10 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
The tough guys of the league are also the Matt Belesky's of the league.
What ?????

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04-05-2013, 01:17 PM
  #364
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I know its too early, but how about Rosehill ? The guy didnt even get ice time in Norfolk, because he was just a "goon''. Then he gets traded to Philly, is called up, destroys top Toronto enforcer in a fight and later scores GWG for his team?
No, teams dont need that kind of players....

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04-05-2013, 01:23 PM
  #365
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That just isn't a very good argument, 5mins. Your sample size is one game.

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04-05-2013, 01:29 PM
  #366
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How did Rosehill not get ice time in Norfolk? He played 33 games in part because of the veteran limit, and how he played in those games. Who do you think stole that ice time? It's not like they only had one guy that could fight down there.

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04-05-2013, 01:35 PM
  #367
5minsforfighting
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Thats maybe true, but I havent seen the same ''one single game" impact from our teams bottom 6 - Steckel's, Dvorak's and etc.

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04-05-2013, 01:39 PM
  #368
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Our third line has impacted many games. Bonino and Etem can boast the same from the 4th line, but to a lesser extent than the third line has.

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04-05-2013, 01:39 PM
  #369
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oh boy, here we go again with the sample size defense.

I think there is just a disconnect here with this argument. I don't think anyone here wants a team of goons.. most of us on the 'physical side' of the fence just want SOMEONE on our team every night that can toss em, hit a little more... and have our other guys' backs. I enjoy the hell outta good scoring and passing, etc. That goal the other night with Perry's tightrope dance on the blue line and over to Getz was incredible... but again, that's only one facet of the game... kinda what you other guys are talking about with the finesse style play.

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04-05-2013, 01:45 PM
  #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douglast5 View Post
2006-2007 team: 10th in hits 18.7 hits per game, 28th in penalties, 0.86 5min majors

This team: 12th in hits average 23.8 hits per game, 9th in penalties, 0.61 5min majors per game

Over 82 games thats, 20 5min majors less, giving them 50 majors in a year. Which would put them second in 2006-2007, behind only the 2006-2007 Ducks team. This doesn't account for 5min pp, NHL just lists majors and not fights alone, not sure how many 5min pp the 06 team gave up.


I just don't seem to see the huge difference like so many, they are just as physical as the team that won the cup.
Not sure if people missed it, but this team hits just as much as the 06/07 team that won the cup.

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04-05-2013, 01:46 PM
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
That is part of the problem. We need more options.

It's not fair to ask Staubitz to handle opponents heavyweights every night.



Belesky can take on most regular physical players but he can't be asked to take on tougher guys. Besides, he's more valuable on ice, if we sacrifice Belesky to take out opponent's tough guy, we lose.




That's just factually wrong.
I would like to see those facts. I can't recall one game this year where the Ducks played a team with a true heavyweight or at least had one in the lineup. When has there been an occasion this season when we needed someone to send a message? Every fight has been by middleweigts because they are the only ones who can play. Staubitz would be fine if he could actually do something with the puck.

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04-05-2013, 01:52 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by snowave View Post
oh boy, here we go again with the sample size defense.

I think there is just a disconnect here with this argument. I don't think anyone here wants a team of goons.. most of us on the 'physical side' of the fence just want SOMEONE on our team every night that can toss em, hit a little more... and have our other guys' backs. I enjoy the hell outta good scoring and passing, etc. That goal the other night with Perry's tightrope dance on the blue line and over to Getz was incredible... but again, that's only one facet of the game... kinda what you other guys are talking about with the finesse style play.
Please tell me you're kidding. "Sample size" isn't a defense. It's an observation that a single game doesn't determine a player's worth to a team.

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04-05-2013, 01:54 PM
  #373
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douglast5: Too sad the stats dont show the number of Cogliano's lost teeth (made by Bollig).

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04-05-2013, 01:56 PM
  #374
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douglast5: Too sad the stats dont show the number of Cogliano's lost teeth (made by Bollig).
How is that relevant?

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04-05-2013, 02:02 PM
  #375
douglast5
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How is that relevant?
Apparently there wasn't any injuries to the 06/07 team because of the tough guys and cogliano's shows how weak the team is.

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