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Semin's contract set the starting point for Kessel's?

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04-04-2013, 01:36 AM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Funk Volume View Post
Yeah cuz the purpose of signing a guy long term is to trade him....
It is not the purpose but it should be a major consideration.....cap management is a major part of success of a team, having the money and the flexibility to make moves, is part of the landscape that teams are dealing with. Lou's contract is a perfect example of signing a player to a long term that makes it nearly impossible to trade.

We have Komi as are own perfect example.....teams would take him but his contract/cap hit made it impossible.The new CBA makes it worse as we can not bury contracts in the minors. Look around the league there are many examples. A 3 year deal at a higher cap hit is better than a 8 year deal at a sightly lower cap hit....

A good GM needs to understand the liabilities of of negotiating a long term/high salary contract.

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04-04-2013, 09:28 AM
  #277
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The difference being that Gaborik is 6 years older, has slightly more than half the points Kessel has this season, had less than Kessel did last season all while playing with a much better line.

Who wouldn't trade Nash for either Lupul or JVR in a second?
Who wouldn't trade Richards for Bozak in a second?
but if you sign him long term to the same type of contract its a risk of the same type of situation

trying to win with a one dimensional player as a core piece

can it work if you tie up a large piece of your cap in players that don't play in all key situations? or is it better to go with depth if you don't have those players?

simplistic example of , you can have a 2, 3 and 7 Million cap hit players or you can have 4, 4, and 4 players with the same use of cap space

its good the leafs will get a look at Kessel in the playoffs before having to make that decision


Last edited by pspot: 04-04-2013 at 09:39 AM.
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04-04-2013, 09:36 AM
  #278
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Someone out there will be stupid enoguh to give Phil his money and his term. I'm confident its not going to be Nonis and company.

GMGM woudl have been a wise trading partner

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04-04-2013, 02:59 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by ReimerForPM View Post
It's $7Mx5 years, but damn, I didn't see that until just now. Sure seems like it would be the best comparable
Kessel is probably at least $250K/yr more

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04-04-2013, 05:51 PM
  #280
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I wouldn't give Semin a 5x7 blue mountain pass let alone 7per for 5 mother ****en years.... Are you kidding me Rutherford you old **** time for you to pick up your ball sack off the floor and retire already..... What's that.... He is the general manager of a team within our conference .... Give this man a contract extension!!! Infact give Sather and Snow one too!!

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04-05-2013, 08:38 AM
  #281
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Didn't watch the game last night but heard about what happened to Lupul

how did Kessel step up after Lupul went out?

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04-05-2013, 03:24 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by pspot View Post
Didn't watch the game last night but heard about what happened to Lupul

how did Kessel step up after Lupul went out?
Kessel stepped up like he does in nearly all games, except games against Boston, he created a dozen scoring chances, hit the post on at least one shot, should have scored one or 2 goals, but didn't.

I don't see the guy being affected by changes to the line-up very much, especially when the change is on any line other than his.

The guy really needs to do something right now, sacrifice a goat to the hockey gods if need be, he can't seem to buy a goal.

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04-05-2013, 03:32 PM
  #283
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Stats wise he will get his 7 mill, but I don't know how you can pay a one demensional soft, soft player that kind of cash.

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04-05-2013, 03:39 PM
  #284
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Stats wise he will get his 7 mill, but I don't know how you can pay a one demensional soft, soft player that kind of cash.
For the same reason that you pay 250 grand for a Ferrari. It's not a Bentley, or a Rolls Royce, but its much better than a Cavalier for that one thing you buy a Ferrari for.

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04-05-2013, 04:09 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
For the same reason that you pay 250 grand for a Ferrari. It's not a Bentley, or a Rolls Royce, but its much better than a Cavalier for that one thing you buy a Ferrari for.
Well in a sport that is considered more of a demolition derby than a road race, the car needs more than just speed as an characteristic to make the decision of value.....

Kessel has lots of Value, I hope it is closer to a luxury car then a Ferrari.

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04-05-2013, 04:50 PM
  #286
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Coach Carlyle's style of preferred play and Kessel's are diametrical opposed to one another and as different as night and day.

Carlyle likes big, physical, players that dictate the play and have strong puck possession skills, that also play a 200 foot game, while Kessel is soft, small, easily intimidated and weak defensively.

We have already seen how Nonis has supported Carlyle by dumping the soft powder puffs like Connolly and Lombardi and provided Orr & McLaren and Fraser type players and we are seeing the benefits of that in the teams success.

Hopefully Nonis continues to provide players that Carlyle desires and uses Kessel as an asset to acquire them, as opposed to locking him in long term at the money & term that is suggested required to keep him.

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04-05-2013, 04:58 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Coach Carlyle's style of preferred play and Kessel's are diametrical opposed to one another and as different as night and day.

Carlyle likes big, physical, players that dictate the play and have strong puck possession skills, that also play a 200 foot game, while Kessel is soft, small, easily intimidated and weak defensively.

We have already seen how Nonis has supported Carlyle by dumping the soft powder puffs like Connolly and Lombardi and provided Orr & McLaren and Fraser type players and we are seeing the benefits of that in the teams success.

Hopefully Nonis continues to provide players that Carlyle desires and uses Kessel as an asset to acquire them, as opposed to locking him in long term at the money & term that is suggested required to keep him.
Yet Teemu Selanne, Bobby Ryan, Kessel have played under Carlyle all while performing at a close PPG clip huh?

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04-05-2013, 05:00 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by FriedEgg View Post
Stats wise he will get his 7 mill, but I don't know how you can pay a one demensional soft, soft player that kind of cash.
How some of you people can buy into that myth is mind boggling.

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04-05-2013, 05:04 PM
  #289
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If Kessel doesn't play well now...

When the games count,he becomes trade bait.He has one year left and if he cant help this team now,I doubt Nonnis offers him more than $6 million. If he says no....Number one center anyone?

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04-05-2013, 06:01 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by BayStreetBullies View Post
How some of you people can buy into that myth is mind boggling.
What myth? That stats wise he's gonna ask for 7 mill or that he's one dimensional and super soft?

Both are very accurate. I don't see value in a contract like that for a guy who doesn't participate in all aspects of the game. I want a 7 million dollar guy to be involved, not have show for only a few shifts a game.

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04-05-2013, 06:05 PM
  #291
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Nonis got Joffrey Lupul locked long term for $5.25 mil per and we have all seen what kind of impacted he has on the team by his play, and how he makes it better.

Hopefully if Kessel does remain he gets a deal worthy of his impact on the Leafs using Lupul as a reference point to importance to success. For players to earn top $$ they have to primary and not secondary pieces. IMO

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04-05-2013, 06:10 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by FriedEgg View Post
What myth? That stats wise he's gonna ask for 7 mill or that he's one dimensional and super soft?
Obviously the myth that he's one-dimensional and super soft. How many times have people on here mentioned his vastly underrated playmaking skills, or that he's improved his defensive play this season? And yet you still call him one-dimensional and super soft.


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04-05-2013, 06:16 PM
  #293
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Lupul signed for so low because of his injury problems. Kessel will definitely not be signing here or anywhere else for what Lupul is making.

Kessel for the most part doesn't get injured, it would be interesting to see how the team would fare without him.


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04-05-2013, 06:35 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by BayStreetBullies View Post
Obviously the myth that he's one-dimensional and super soft. How many times have people on here mentioned his vastly underrated playmaking skills? And yet you still call him one-dimensional.
Far less then him being called soft.....so if that is the proof....he is soft.

He is a good offensive player, passing skills and his release are elite, however his inability to play the other 4/5ths of the game is an issue.

He is a defensive liability....he will not take a check to make a play, nor does he attempt to body check to help on the forecheck. He does not block shots as his path to the D man who has the puck is always from the inside ( wall ) to the player, leaving the middle lane wide open .To block a shot you have to get in the shooting lanes. He got praise for attempting to jump out of the way and the puck hit him on here as an example of his shot blocking skills.

He is what he is a one dimensional player....how many dimensions are there when discussing a hockey player?

4 is my answer.
Leadership and intangible skills.
Offensive skills
Physical skills
Defensive skills


Passing and scoring/shooting are both Offensive skills and fall under one dimension.

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04-05-2013, 06:39 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by leaffaninvictoria View Post
Lupul signed for so low because of his injury problems. Kessel will definitely not be signing here or anywhere else for what Lupul is making.

Kessel for the most part doesn't get injured, it would be interesting to see how the team would fare without him.
You are right Kessel does not get injured.....as you have to be willing to put your self into a position that may cause you to get injured.

Claude Loiselle said it best "Unfair to consider Lupes injury prone "plays hard. some guys never hurt because they dont go in the corner"

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04-05-2013, 06:45 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Far less then him being called soft.....so if that is the proof....he is soft.

He is a good offensive player, passing skills and his release are elite, however his inability to play the other 4/5ths of the game is an issue.

He is a defensive liability....he will not take a check to make a play, nor does he attempt to body check to help on the forecheck. He does not block shots as his path to the D man who has the puck is always from the inside ( wall ) to the player, leaving the middle lane wide open .To block a shot you have to get in the shooting lanes. He got praise for attempting to jump out of the way and the puck hit him on here as an example of his shot blocking skills.

He is what he is a one dimensional player....how many dimensions are there when discussing a hockey player?

4 is my answer.
Leadership and intangible skills.
Offensive skills
Physical skills
Defensive skills


Passing and scoring/shooting are both Offensive skills and fall under one dimension.
That's a nice analysis and all, but all it shows that you think Kessel should be taking hits just for the sake of it. I'd rather have a healthy, productive Kessel who avoids hits, than one who plays a kamikaze style and ends up on the IR 2-3 times a season. Just because he avoids hits, doesn't make him soft. Many times it's the smart thing to do.

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04-05-2013, 06:53 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by BayStreetBullies View Post
That's a nice analysis and all, but all it shows that you think Kessel should be taking hits just for the sake of it. I'd rather have a healthy, productive Kessel who avoids hits, than one who plays a kamikaze style and ends up on the IR 2-3 times a season. Just because he avoids hits, doesn't make him soft. Many times it's the smart thing to do.
He costs us goals on both ends of the ice as a result of his inability to engage physically.



No one expects him to run around hitting every thing that moves....taking a hit to make a play....is expected. Battling for possession of the puck....is expected. Getting involved in the game that will help your team win...is expected.

Is there another word that I can use to describe him other that soft?... as all the other words I can think of are not as kind as soft.

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04-05-2013, 07:33 PM
  #298
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The crucial point is term. Money/cap hit comes second. Anything more than 5 years would make me cringe. His departure from Boston should indicate why a longer commitment will be ill advised.

Also I wouldn`t call Kessel a playmaker. He is a pretty good passer and has creative vision on the offensive side of things - BUT Kessel doesn`t run, control or structures the game of his team. He lacks the needed intangiables/grit/leadership for that.

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For players to earn top $$ they have to primary and not secondary pieces. IMO
That`s the essential question Nonis has to ask himself. Is an elite secondary piece worth that money and do we have alternative options? IMO the latter aspect almost guarantees Phil Kessel a contract (mostly on his terms). I dont like it yet that`s my guess.

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04-07-2013, 11:53 AM
  #299
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People on this board love to act like capologists and pro scouts while failing at both.

At this point, we have a dynamic offence. Kessel commands the attention of the opposing teams #1 dman all game... not Kadri, not Lupul...Kessel.

With or without the puck, he is capable of skating at 40 km/h down the ice. Only guys like Crosby can compare with his speed. Factor in his lethal wrist shot, ppposing teams are forced to focus a lot of their attention on him. He is a threat to score every time he is on the ice, keeping the other team on edge all game. This opens up opportunities for guys like Lupul and Kadri, allowing them to play with less pressure and against weaker matchups.

Factor in his credentials:
consistent 30 goal scorer with potential for more
PPG player
25 years old***
doesn't need good linemates to produce

... and you have a $7 million player. With out influx of defensive prospects on cheap ELC contracts, we can afford high-priced forwards.


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04-07-2013, 12:16 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Far less then him being called soft.....so if that is the proof....he is soft.

He is a good offensive player, passing skills and his release are elite, however his inability to play the other 4/5ths of the game is an issue.

He is a defensive liability....he will not take a check to make a play, nor does he attempt to body check to help on the forecheck. He does not block shots as his path to the D man who has the puck is always from the inside ( wall ) to the player, leaving the middle lane wide open .To block a shot you have to get in the shooting lanes. He got praise for attempting to jump out of the way and the puck hit him on here as an example of his shot blocking skills.

He is what he is a one dimensional player....how many dimensions are there when discussing a hockey player?

4 is my answer.
Leadership and intangible skills.
Offensive skills
Physical skills
Defensive skills


Passing and scoring/shooting are both Offensive skills and fall under one dimension.
Agree with you completely.

And to make matters worse, even his offensive skills aren't exactly out of this world. He can skate, shoot and pass really well but relative to the type of player he is (0 physical contact) he has limited creativity/stick-handling/agility on the rush to get separation in order to get a shot off from a dangerous position. I wonder if throughout the stages of his development his speed was enough therefore he never had to develop the other skills.

This lack of dimension in his game is also why he gets in these cold spells, it's not due to bad luck. He doesn't create enough good chances for himself, due to lack of dimension in his offensive arsenal.

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