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Can Malkin carry us again?

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04-05-2013, 04:45 AM
  #101
SidTheKid8787
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Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet View Post
Problem is Morrow can't play 18+ minutes a night. And he's slow.

I'd opt for Kunitz, or see how Jokinen pans out on the LW.
I disagree that Morrow can't play those minutes with Malkin and Neal.
The one game they played together, all he had to do was dish to Malkin, Neal and let them lug the puck. Morrow's most important work on that line is what he does best. Board work and getting to the net and staying there.

I pray DB has Kunitz-Malkin-Neal or Morrow-Malkin-Neal lines at his morning skate.

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04-05-2013, 05:54 AM
  #102
Honour Over Glory
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Kunitz needs to be with Malkin to get him going again, trying to fit in a new winger with a center that is struggling to find his stride is not the best move right before the playoffs, especially when you are trying to force a long time veteran of the league to play on the wrong side when he's been a right winger for 99% of his career.

What I would want to see against the Rangers today is this:

Kunitz, Malkin, Neal
Morrow, Jokinen, Iginla
Cooke, Sutter, Dupuis
Kennedy, Vitale, Adams

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04-05-2013, 05:55 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
I disagree that Morrow can't play those minutes with Malkin and Neal.
The one game they played together, all he had to do was dish to Malkin, Neal and let them lug the puck. Morrow's most important work on that line is what he does best. Board work and getting to the net and staying there.

I pray DB has Kunitz-Malkin-Neal or Morrow-Malkin-Neal lines at his morning skate.
Same. People complain about stuff way too fast. Morrow isn't bad, he's just being misused right now and let's not pretend that doesn't happen with this team under the current head coach, right?

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04-05-2013, 06:32 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Same. People complain about stuff way too fast. Morrow isn't bad, he's just being misused right now and let's not pretend that doesn't happen with this team under the current head coach, right?
Morrow is playing left wing on a very capable third line and getting secondary PP unit time. If a player on this team is not being misused at present, he is that player.

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04-05-2013, 07:54 AM
  #105
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if only there wasn't a rule saying line mates had to play every single shift together. then we could let someone like Bennett take a few shifts a period to fill in for Morrow if he can't handle the minutes.

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Morrow is playing left wing on a very capable third line and getting secondary PP unit time. If a player on this team is not being misused at present, he is that player.
I disagree wholeheartedly. That line is used primarily for defensive matchups and he is entirely too slow for it. He just can't cover the point effectively in zone. He should be on the Geno line starting in the O zone as much as possible, or on the 4th line mucking it up as a Glass upgrade. Even offensively, he's on a line that doesn't shoot that much. His best offensive contribution is going to the net, but he's not playing with guys who do a lot of shooting.

He is a fine player, but he's playing a position that is exploiting his weaknesses and minimizing his strengths.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 04-05-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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04-05-2013, 09:52 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Exactly. I look at the '09 playoffs, and while Feds and Talbot played over their heads, it was Malkin who was next to magical and made those guys what they were. I've watched that run so often it's burned into my memory.

Just like Sid's lines go as he goes, it's the same with Geno.
Talbot played the puck retriever role. I remember saying at the time that he morphed into Malone 2.0 for those 16 magical games.

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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Meh, I think there's a lot of innate excuses for Geno every time he goes through one of his funks.

He has to play with this guy and that guy, but only if this guy and that guy play this position and that position. But it has to be when the moon is full, his mom is in town, and his girlfriend isn't on her period.

He's getting paid Sid money. He's going to want to get more than Sid's getting. At some point, when you're given "best player in the world" status, you're supposed to transcend all of that ****.
So, if being best in the world means the specific linemate doesn't matter, then you're saying Kunitz should be playing with Malkin, since it shouldn't matter if Iginla and Dupuis play with Sid. Am I reading that right?

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Originally Posted by radapex View Post


This is the same reason pests more often target Malkin & Neal than Crosby. It's easier to get in their head.

It's also the reason why many coaches - such as Babcock in the 2008 and 2009 SCFs - focus their shutdown guys on Crosby. You know Crosby's going to be a threat out there every single night but that's not always the case with Malkin, so you gameplan to stop Crosby and sort of "roll the dice" with Malkin.
This is revisionist history about 2009.

One, Bruce Boudreau always maintained-- and you even saw it in the 24/7 episodes-- that to beat the Pens in the playoffs, you shut down Malkin. He always was the focus. He figured Ovi and Sid would match one another. Malkin was the wild card. Take him out, and the rest of what the Caps had could beat the rest of what the Pens had. **** near worked.

Two, did you actually WATCH what happened anytime Babcock got stuck with Zetterberg and Lidstrom on the ice against Malkin? While Zetterberg owned Sid, he was too small physically to deal with Malkin. As for Lidstrom, Malkin had a simple formula. If he backs off, go. If he tries to step up, dump, beat him to the puck, and outmuscle him. Frankly, putting Franzen, Hossa, Kronwall, and Stuart out there against Malkin was Babcock's only decent matchup. His real problem was not having a healthy Datsyuk (the only guy Detroit had to matchup with Malkin), because you can be damn sure a healthy Datsyuk would've been out there with those four.


Last edited by KIRK: 04-05-2013 at 09:59 AM.
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04-05-2013, 09:56 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Talbot played the puck retriever role. I remember saying at the time that he morphed into Malone 2.0 for those 16 magical games.
exactly.

Ready for a cliche? Malkin doesn't need the best players, he needs the right players. We aren't asking to cater for him in some ridiculous way.

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04-05-2013, 10:05 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
exactly.

Ready for a cliche? Malkin doesn't need the best players, he needs the right players. We aren't asking to cater for him in some ridiculous way.
Bingo.

I'll go one further. Malkin doesn't NEED James Neal. Far from it. Neal at ES right now, anytime the LW isn't a puck retriever, is Ponikarovsky. He's just there.

And, all of those 'look how good he looked with Morrow' people make me laugh. The guy he really looked good with was Beau Bennett. The two games he played with Bennett were against Philly and Toronto, two teams against which Malkin had struggled even last year when he was rolling. BUT, with Bennett, he was an absolute beast out there.

The way I look at it, Malkin would be a lot better off centering Kunitz and Dupuis than he is centering Neal and Iginla, and it's really not even close.

You give Malkin a Kunitz or a Kulemin or a Malone type on that LW, and his RW really doesn't matter that much.

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04-05-2013, 10:15 AM
  #109
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When Malkin is the F5, he is awesome. Confirmed by Ro***.

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04-05-2013, 10:17 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
When Malkin is the F5, he is awesome. Confirmed by Ro***.
Malkin confirmed natural disaster, news at 11

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04-05-2013, 10:17 AM
  #111
KIRK
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When Malkin is the F5, he is awesome. Confirmed by Ro***.
I thought you were joking until you wrote 'Confirmed by Ro***'.

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04-05-2013, 10:21 AM
  #112
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Bingo.

I'll go one further. Malkin doesn't NEED James Neal. Far from it. Neal at ES right now, anytime the LW isn't a puck retriever, is Ponikarovsky. He's just there.

And, all of those 'look how good he looked with Morrow' people make me laugh. The guy he really looked good with was Beau Bennett. The two games he played with Bennett were against Philly and Toronto, two teams against which Malkin had struggled even last year when he was rolling. BUT, with Bennett, he was an absolute beast out there.

The way I look at it, Malkin would be a lot better off centering Kunitz and Dupuis than he is centering Neal and Iginla, and it's really not even close.

You give Malkin a Kunitz or a Kulemin or a Malone type on that LW, and his RW really doesn't matter that much.
Kunitz and Dupuis can turn anyone into a superstar

but seriously, I completely agree. You know who he'd probably look best with? One of each.

What are the chances the same can be said for Sid? I'd like to find out some day.

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04-05-2013, 10:31 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Kunitz and Dupuis can turn anyone into a superstar

but seriously, I completely agree. You know who he'd probably look best with? One of each.

What are the chances the same can be said for Sid? I'd like to find out some day.
Sid's the best in the world. According to MTLPenFan, it should make no difference if Sid plays with Iggy and Dupuis or Kunitz and Dupuis.

This is the part that makes me laugh in all of this. The whole 'it doesn't matter who Sid plays with'. Yes it does. Why did he look so-so all that time with Malone? Why did he blow chunks with Satan and Sykora?

It's because there are guys who are good complements and there are guys who are not, and that affects ANYONE.

Sid's perfect linemate would be, IMO, a guy like Perry, Brown, or Ryan, a guy who's going to give you a Kunitz like game with better offensive instinct and the ability to make a play. You give him two guys like that, and you're golden.

With Malkin, the ideal linemate thing is more a sum of parts. For me, the ideal ALWAYS has been the Malone-Malkin-Sykora model. The finisher on one side but most important the puck retriever on the other.

Now, here's the funny thing: You give Sid a even a poor man's version of the perfect complements (Kunitz and Dupuis), and he's the best in the world. You give Malkin even a poor man's version of the perfect complements (Talbot being Malone, Feds being Sykora), and he's the best in the world.

Kunitz last year worked when he played the puck retriever role, but that's not a natural thing for him, not like it was with Malone or Talbot. Kunitz does it well enough. It works with Sid and Dupuis because the three of them puck retrieve in unison and strike quickly.

With Malkin, the model for what makes for the perfect complements is different. It's just that the organization has done a poorer job giving Malkin the complement he needs than they even have done with Sid, and the coach never recognized that it was Kunitz, not Neal, last year who helped Malkin go.

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04-05-2013, 10:45 AM
  #114
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Blow chunks? Sid has never played at below 100pps regardless of linemates. Also Sykora mostly played with Malkin.

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04-05-2013, 10:54 AM
  #115
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Blow chunks? Sid has never played at below 100pps regardless of linemates. Also Sykora mostly played with Malkin.
and Geno doesn't actually blow chunks with Iginla and Neal. But he can do better with better compliments to his game.

And KIRK, I completely agree on this.

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04-05-2013, 11:02 AM
  #116
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They've got a winger on the team right now who Sid doesn't play well with. Geno has turned him into a 40 goal scorer. That's the biggest argument I can see in favor of chemistry.

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04-05-2013, 11:10 AM
  #117
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They've got a winger on the team right now who Sid doesn't play well with. Geno has turned him into a 40 goal scorer. That's the biggest argument I can see in favor of chemistry.
we've got enough wingers that play well with each that both can be happy. And I think Kunitz deserves more credit for those 40 goals (and Geno's 50) than he gets.

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04-05-2013, 11:10 AM
  #118
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Malkin needs to step up his game and it should start tonight against the Rangers!

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04-05-2013, 11:55 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Sid's the best in the world. According to MTLPenFan, it should make no difference if Sid plays with Iggy and Dupuis or Kunitz and Dupuis.

This is the part that makes me laugh in all of this. The whole 'it doesn't matter who Sid plays with'. Yes it does. Why did he look so-so all that time with Malone? Why did he blow chunks with Satan and Sykora?

It's because there are guys who are good complements and there are guys who are not, and that affects ANYONE.

Sid's perfect linemate would be, IMO, a guy like Perry, Brown, or Ryan, a guy who's going to give you a Kunitz like game with better offensive instinct and the ability to make a play. You give him two guys like that, and you're golden.

With Malkin, the ideal linemate thing is more a sum of parts. For me, the ideal ALWAYS has been the Malone-Malkin-Sykora model. The finisher on one side but most important the puck retriever on the other.

Now, here's the funny thing: You give Sid a even a poor man's version of the perfect complements (Kunitz and Dupuis), and he's the best in the world. You give Malkin even a poor man's version of the perfect complements (Talbot being Malone, Feds being Sykora), and he's the best in the world.

Kunitz last year worked when he played the puck retriever role, but that's not a natural thing for him, not like it was with Malone or Talbot. Kunitz does it well enough. It works with Sid and Dupuis because the three of them puck retrieve in unison and strike quickly.

With Malkin, the model for what makes for the perfect complements is different. It's just that the organization has done a poorer job giving Malkin the complement he needs than they even have done with Sid, and the coach never recognized that it was Kunitz, not Neal, last year who helped Malkin go.
The biggest thing for Crosby's linemates are that they have to be able to match his speed (which Kunitz & Dupuis can) and they have to be willing to grind like he does (which Kunitz & Dupuis do).

It's the same reason Cooke & Kennedy worked with Crosby last year, but I wouldn't even want to try that this year - Cooke's lost a step or two and Kennedy's lost his game altogether.

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04-05-2013, 01:53 PM
  #120
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
The biggest thing for Crosby's linemates are that they have to be able to match his speed (which Kunitz & Dupuis can) and they have to be willing to grind like he does (which Kunitz & Dupuis do).

It's the same reason Cooke & Kennedy worked with Crosby last year, but I wouldn't even want to try that this year - Cooke's lost a step or two and Kennedy's lost his game altogether.
I think Sid would be fine with one of those two along with Iginla. If not, put them back with him. I just hate not trying it. Sid really timed this broken jaw poorly

Either way, I think Malkin's line would be better with someone other than either Neal or Iginla. Morrow or Bennett if we are unwilling to break up the Sid line.

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04-05-2013, 03:16 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
I pray DB has Kunitz-Malkin-Neal or Morrow-Malkin-Neal lines at his morning skate.
Speaking of which, does anyone know what the lines were at the morning skate today?

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04-05-2013, 03:37 PM
  #122
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He better step it up, 6 goals wont get him near sid money or should it.

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04-05-2013, 03:41 PM
  #123
radapex
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Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet View Post
Speaking of which, does anyone know what the lines were at the morning skate today?
http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.ht...e#MORNINGSKATE

Quote:
Kunitz-Jokinen-Dupuis
Neal-Malkin-Iginla
Morrow-Sutter-Cooke
Glass-Adams-Kennedy

Orpik-Eaton
Murray-Niskanen
Engelland-Despres-Bortuzzo
Exactly what everyone figured they'd be.

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Old
04-05-2013, 03:46 PM
  #124
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Yes, he can still carry the team. Maybe not with the D being quite this injured though.

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04-05-2013, 03:48 PM
  #125
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Malkin can carry the team, but right now it looks like he's just going through the motions. There's no jump in his game right now. He needs to do much better than what he showed in the last two games.

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