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Prospect Talk PART VII

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04-05-2013, 01:08 PM
  #1
PWJunior
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Prospect Talk PART VII

Please continue the discussion here.

Previous Thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1347477

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04-05-2013, 01:23 PM
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Touching on the Strome being called up discussion from the previous thread, I think Dan mentioned something that a lot of folks clamoring for Strome to take Boyes' spot on JT's line this season should really take into account.

The main problems people have with the current makeup of Tavares' line is 1]Boyes and Moulson are bad defensively and b]Tavares has to do all the "dirty work" for his line. Replacing Strome with Boyes doesn't really fix either of those main issues. It's not Strome's game to do the "dirty work", so Tavares would still be the only guy on his line going into the corners and battling for pucks.

I could see the argument of bringing Strome up to center the Bailey/Okposo line and move Nielsen back to 3C, but I don't really see Strome as an improvement on what is killing the Tavares line at the moment, at least not *this* season.

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04-05-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
The main problems people have with the current makeup of Tavares' line is 1]Boyes and Moulson are bad defensively and b]Tavares has to do all the "dirty work" for his line. Replacing Strome with Boyes doesn't really fix either of those main issues. It's not Strome's game to do the "dirty work", so Tavares would still be the only guy on his line going into the corners and battling for pucks.

I could see the argument of bringing Strome up to center the Bailey/Okposo line and move Nielsen back to 3C, but I don't really see Strome as an improvement on what is killing the Tavares line at the moment, at least not *this* season.
Exactly. Right now, Strome 's skillset isn't all that different from Frans'. He's even pretty good at defensive zone coverage.

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04-05-2013, 01:41 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Touching on the Strome being called up discussion from the previous thread, I think Dan mentioned something that a lot of folks clamoring for Strome to take Boyes' spot on JT's line this season should really take into account.

The main problems people have with the current makeup of Tavares' line is 1]Boyes and Moulson are bad defensively and b]Tavares has to do all the "dirty work" for his line. Replacing Strome with Boyes doesn't really fix either of those main issues. It's not Strome's game to do the "dirty work", so Tavares would still be the only guy on his line going into the corners and battling for pucks.

I could see the argument of bringing Strome up to center the Bailey/Okposo line and move Nielsen back to 3C, but I don't really see Strome as an improvement on what is killing the Tavares line at the moment, at least not *this* season.
Boyes is a turnover machine though, it doesn't even have to do with going into the dirty areas imo. PA was much better than Boyes because he was a great passer. Boyes has a good shot and occasionally makes some good moves but thats it. I would like to think Strome would be a much better option because of his vision, playmaking abilities, and shot. Isles get into the zone and then Boyes turns it over right away, it happens so much, Idk how you think Strome wouldn't be an improvement in that alone.

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04-05-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Touching on the Strome being called up discussion from the previous thread, I think Dan mentioned something that a lot of folks clamoring for Strome to take Boyes' spot on JT's line this season should really take into account.

The main problems people have with the current makeup of Tavares' line is 1]Boyes and Moulson are bad defensively and b]Tavares has to do all the "dirty work" for his line. Replacing Strome with Boyes doesn't really fix either of those main issues. It's not Strome's game to do the "dirty work", so Tavares would still be the only guy on his line going into the corners and battling for pucks.

I could see the argument of bringing Strome up to center the Bailey/Okposo line and move Nielsen back to 3C, but I don't really see Strome as an improvement on what is killing the Tavares line at the moment, at least not *this* season.
Then how about

Martin / JT / Strome

Okposo / Frans / Bailey

Moulson / Cizikas / MacDonald

Grabs / Aucoin / Boyes

Allows us to roll 4 pretty good lines

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04-05-2013, 01:47 PM
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Idk how you think Strome wouldn't be an improvement in that alone.
Do you want Strome learning how to play wing on the top line, playing 18 minutes a night, getting crushed (and concussed) in the corners?

Peter Mueller redux. No thank you.

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04-05-2013, 02:27 PM
  #7
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good points about Strome and I'm not sure I'd call him up but I lean to "yes" - IF he continues to show he can produce in the AHL. I'd probably use him on the 2nd line, in an offensive role, definitely NOT with Tavares though.

Moulson Tavares Martin
Bailey Strome/Nelson Okposo
Grabner Nielsen Boyes
Lee/Joensuu/Reasoner Cizikas McDonald

I can see giving both Nelson and Strome a few games as the #2 C but even that would be tough since Bailey-Okposo have been the Isles best players in the last dozen games or so.

Besides Hickey being much better than expected and really emerging, I'd say Bailey's game has been a very positive development this season. He's getting better every game, very consistent, much better offensively AND defensively, he's great along the boards too! I've always been a Bailey supporter and I'm glad he's starting to play consistently well.

If the Isles make the playoffs, it's not on Tavares' back (as it was the whole first half when he carried the team on his own) - the improvement of the team is based on the improved play of Okposo, Bailey, Hickey and to a lesser extent, players like Cizikas, McDonald, Martin.

Amazing how well the Islanders are playing given that players like Moulson, Boyes, Grabner, Streit, Hamonic and MacDonald have been average to poor for most of the season.

And Tavares, despite his near 50goal pace (over 82 games) has not been his best either!

Nabokov has come up big at times, though he's also let in some horrible goals earlier in the year.

Amazing.

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04-05-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
good points about Strome and I'm not sure I'd call him up but I lean to "yes" - IF he continues to show he can produce in the AHL. I'd probably use him on the 2nd line, in an offensive role, definitely NOT with Tavares though.

Moulson Tavares Martin
Bailey Strome/Nelson Okposo
Grabner Nielsen Boyes
Lee/Joensuu/Reasoner Cizikas McDonald

I can see giving both Nelson and Strome a few games as the #2 C but even that would be tough since Bailey-Okposo have been the Isles best players in the last dozen games or so.

Besides Hickey being much better than expected and really emerging, I'd say Bailey's game has been a very positive development this season. He's getting better every game, very consistent, much better offensively AND defensively, he's great along the boards too! I've always been a Bailey supporter and I'm glad he's starting to play consistently well.

If the Isles make the playoffs, it's not on Tavares' back (as it was the whole first half when he carried the team on his own) - the improvement of the team is based on the improved play of Okposo, Bailey, Hickey and to a lesser extent, players like Cizikas, McDonald, Martin.

Amazing how well the Islanders are playing given that players like Moulson, Boyes, Grabner, Streit, Hamonic and MacDonald have been average to poor for most of the season.

And Tavares, despite his near 50goal pace (over 82 games) has not been his best either!

Nabokov has come up big at times, though he's also let in some horrible goals earlier in the year.

Amazing.

Its a credit to guys like Cizikas, CMac, Hickey, Martin. The great late play of Bailey, Nielsen, KO. And Nabby has been carrying the team all season.

I'm hoping that JJ, Ullstrom, and Lee can do what Cizikas, Martin, and CMac have done this season. I think JJ, Ullstrom and Lee can add more offensively but the gritty kind of play is exactly what takes teams deep into the playoffs.

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04-05-2013, 02:43 PM
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19NYSports91
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Do you want Strome learning how to play wing on the top line, playing 18 minutes a night, getting crushed (and concussed) in the corners?

Peter Mueller redux. No thank you.
I guess the problem would be you would have to replace Moulson too then. I was really only talking about this year. I wouldn't touch the 2nd line right and it would kind of be a waste to put him on the 3rd line.

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04-05-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
good points about Strome and I'm not sure I'd call him up but I lean to "yes" - IF he continues to show he can produce in the AHL. I'd probably use him on the 2nd line, in an offensive role, definitely NOT with Tavares though.

Moulson Tavares Martin
Bailey Strome/Nelson Okposo
Grabner Nielsen Boyes
Lee/Joensuu/Reasoner Cizikas McDonald

I can see giving both Nelson and Strome a few games as the #2 C but even that would be tough since Bailey-Okposo have been the Isles best players in the last dozen games or so.

Besides Hickey being much better than expected and really emerging, I'd say Bailey's game has been a very positive development this season. He's getting better every game, very consistent, much better offensively AND defensively, he's great along the boards too! I've always been a Bailey supporter and I'm glad he's starting to play consistently well.

If the Isles make the playoffs, it's not on Tavares' back (as it was the whole first half when he carried the team on his own) - the improvement of the team is based on the improved play of Okposo, Bailey, Hickey and to a lesser extent, players like Cizikas, McDonald, Martin.

Amazing how well the Islanders are playing given that players like Moulson, Boyes, Grabner, Streit, Hamonic and MacDonald have been average to poor for most of the season.

And Tavares, despite his near 50goal pace (over 82 games) has not been his best either!

Nabokov has come up big at times, though he's also let in some horrible goals earlier in the year.

Amazing.
I strongly disagree with this.

Hamoonic in his last 17 games playing against the other teams top line.
+4, 1 goal, 2 assists, 17 hits, 44 blocked shots.


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04-05-2013, 02:58 PM
  #11
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Boyes can't be taught anything new. Strome is still young however and can grow with Tavares. The same goes for Lee. If you put those three (Tavares, Strome, Lee) I think you have a perfect combination of everything.

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04-05-2013, 03:01 PM
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I guess the problem would be you would have to replace Moulson too then. I was really only talking about this year. I wouldn't touch the 2nd line right and it would kind of be a waste to put him on the 3rd line.
Me too, which is why I wouldn't bring him up. He doesn't solve the problem we're looking to solve.

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04-05-2013, 03:03 PM
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Boyes can't be taught anything new. Strome is still young however and can grow with Tavares. The same goes for Lee. If you put those three (Tavares, Strome, Lee) I think you have a perfect combination of everything.
I was thinking that too, but you can't put 2 rookies who barely played pro hockey on the top line in a playoff race. Maybe in the future, who knows.

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04-05-2013, 03:07 PM
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Me too, which is why I wouldn't bring him up. He doesn't solve the problem we're looking to solve.
Makes sense. I'd rather have Cizikas on the top line instead of Martin though. cizikas is a better player than martin and he would be a better fit for tavares imo. If capuano isn't going to put cizikas as the 3rd line center, he should move him up and not waste him on the 4th line.

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04-05-2013, 03:15 PM
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Boyes can't be taught anything new. Strome is still young however and can grow with Tavares. The same goes for Lee. If you put those three (Tavares, Strome, Lee) I think you have a perfect combination of everything.
Just trade all the vets. Enough of this OLD wine....gimme some NEW wine.

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04-05-2013, 03:21 PM
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Makes sense. I'd rather have Cizikas on the top line instead of Martin though. cizikas is a better player than martin and he would be a better fit for tavares imo. If capuano isn't going to put cizikas as the 3rd line center, he should move him up and not waste him on the 4th line.
There's basically a dilemma:

1. Keep Boyes with JT & Moulson

2. Split up Nielsen and Okposo

Go with 1, and you have an ineffective even strength line.

Go with 2, and you lose your most effective even strength line.

This is why I almost never blame the coach.

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04-05-2013, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
There's basically a dilemma:

1. Keep Boyes with JT & Moulson

2. Split up Nielsen and Okposo

Go with 1, and you have an ineffective even strength line.

Go with 2, and you lose your most effective even strength line.

This is why I almost never blame the coach.
You don't have to split up Okposo and nielsen though...I wanted Boyes gone because I don't like him in the top 6 or the bottom 6 role.

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04-05-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
There's basically a dilemma:

1. Keep Boyes with JT & Moulson

2. Split up Nielsen and Okposo

Go with 1, and you have an ineffective even strength line.

Go with 2, and you lose your most effective even strength line.

This is why I almost never blame the coach.
Not exactly if your looking to put a player with size that can go in the corners win pucks and go into the dirty areas and you simply refuse to break up Moulson and Tavares, or call up Strome... You play Colin McDonald on RW, or David Ullstrom. They both have decent hands to boot.

The Problem is where to put Boyes, You're not breaking up Okposo-Bailey-Nielsen. And putting Boyes on Grabners wing, is again putting two softies on the wing, setting a Center up for disaster, although I think lee would be a good fit inbetween Grabner and Boyes now that I think about it (he looks more comfortable on Defense as a center anyway). Then Cizikas center Martin and JJ or Aucoin on the 4th.

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04-05-2013, 03:43 PM
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I wouldn't mind giving Boyes a day off. Rotate the first line. Give Lee some shifts, McDonald, Martin. See what clicks.

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04-05-2013, 03:45 PM
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Not exactly if your looking to put a player with size that can go in the corners win pucks and go into the dirty areas and you simply refuse to break up Moulson and Tavares, or call up Strome... You play Colin McDonald on RW, or David Ullstrom. They both have decent hands to boot.

The Problem is where to put Boyes, You're not breaking up Okposo-Bailey-Nielsen. And putting Boyes on Grabners wing, is again putting two softies on the wing, setting a Center up for disaster, although I think lee would be a good fit inbetween Grabner and Boyes now that I think about it (he looks more comfortable on Defense as a center anyway). Then Cizikas center Martin and JJ or Aucoin on the 4th.

I know this is kind of off topic. But Boyes isn't scoring goals, ZERO in the last 10 games. If he isn't scoring, he's useless. Why is he still in the lineup?

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04-05-2013, 03:47 PM
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I know this is kind of off topic. But Boyes isn't scoring goals, ZERO in the last 10 games. If he isn't scoring, he's useless. Why is he still in the lineup?
I hear you, I'm not married to him. Didn't like him before he got here, and never liked him while he was here. BUT, much like my other whipping boy Mark Streit, he does have value on a PP unit. Question is, how many PP specialists can we afford to dress before it kills us 5 on 5?

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04-05-2013, 03:55 PM
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I hear you, I'm not married to him. Didn't like him before he got here, and never liked him while he was here. BUT, much like my other whipping boy Mark Streit, he does have value on a PP unit. Question is, how many PP specialists can we afford to dress before it kills us 5 on 5?
We have the same whipping boys lol. I'm also not a fan of Hickey and everyone seems to love him. I don't see it, he's not a top 4 dman.

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04-05-2013, 04:01 PM
  #23
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Not exactly if your looking to put a player with size that can go in the corners win pucks and go into the dirty areas and you simply refuse to break up Moulson and Tavares, or call up Strome... You play Colin McDonald on RW, or David Ullstrom. They both have decent hands to boot.
I want a righty shot on that line, especially if it's going to be the top PP unit. I don't think McDonald or Ullstrom will do much better on that line.

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04-05-2013, 04:06 PM
  #24
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Touching on the Strome being called up discussion from the previous thread, I think Dan mentioned something that a lot of folks clamoring for Strome to take Boyes' spot on JT's line this season should really take into account.

The main problems people have with the current makeup of Tavares' line is 1]Boyes and Moulson are bad defensively and b]Tavares has to do all the "dirty work" for his line. Replacing Strome with Boyes doesn't really fix either of those main issues. It's not Strome's game to do the "dirty work", so Tavares would still be the only guy on his line going into the corners and battling for pucks.

I could see the argument of bringing Strome up to center the Bailey/Okposo line and move Nielsen back to 3C, but I don't really see Strome as an improvement on what is killing the Tavares line at the moment, at least not *this* season.
The bolded are problems, but I think they actually make inserting a skilled rookie easier, ie., there really won't be much dropoff from what the current guys are doing.

My biggest problem with the 1st line is actually that JT does ALL the work, including creating offense, and the other two guys benefit from JT. I'd like to see JT get some help and play with guys who create time and space for him. I'd do:

Martin - JT - Strome

That's a nice combo, IMO. Martin might not have 1st line skill at this point in his career, but his hitting and physical presence would create time and space for the other 2 guys, and he'd keep opposing players honest with the Franchise and the Kid. IF Strome keeps showing high end offense in the AHL for the upcoming stretch I'd consider giving him a chance to do that with JT.

I think Strome would have an easier adjustment, and stand less chance of getting creamed, at RW with JT than if he were centering the 2nd line.

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04-05-2013, 04:22 PM
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I want a righty shot on that line, especially if it's going to be the top PP unit. I don't think McDonald or Ullstrom will do much better on that line.
I don't care much about Handedness especially in the offensive end, both McDonald and Ullstrom have shown they can win pucks on the Right wall, find the open man in the slot or at the point and hit them with a pass. and FWIW McDonald IS Right Handed.

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