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Subban's play since coming back Part 2

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Old
04-05-2013, 12:37 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
The media also generally places too high an emphasis on goals/points which helps Subban to a certain extent. I think it's either Subban or Letang, the longer Letang is out the more it cements Subban as #1.
Perhaps...but Subban is an all-around defender.

Not only does he put up points, but he excells defensively.

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04-05-2013, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Pay your star players what they're worth.
But do it in a way to save money on the cap.

Why do this?:
2013 ---------> 2,000,000$ (end of the season he is 24)
2013-2014 ---> 3,750,000$ (end of the season he is 25)
Cap hit of $2,875,000
2014-2015 ---> 7,000,000$ + (end of the season he is 26)
2015-2016 ---> 7,000,000$ + (end of the season he is 27)
2016-2017 ---> 7,000,000$ + (end of the season he is 28)
2018-2019 ---> 7,000,000$ + (end of the season he is 29)
2019-2020 ---> 7,000,000$ + (end of the season he is 30)
2020-2021 ---> 7,000,000$ + (end of the season he is 31)
2021-2022 ---> 7,000,000$ + (end of the season he is 32)
2022-2023 ---> 7,000,000$ + (end of the season he is 33)
Cap hit of 7,000,000$ +

So with this, he will have a cap hit of 7,000,000$ + for most of his prime. 61.75 Million total by 33 years old.

When we could of done/do this:

Now let's take a look at my scenario
2013 ---------> 4,000,000$ (end of the season he is 24)
2013-2014 ---> 4,500,000$ (end of the season he is 25)
2014-2015 ---> 5,000,000$ (end of the season he is 26)
2015-2016 ---> 6,500,000$ (end of the season he is 27)
2016-2017 ---> 7,000,000$ (end of the season he is 28)
2018-2019 ---> 7,500,000$ (end of the season he is 29)
Cap hit of 5,750,000

To stay in compliance with the 35% year to year rule + the 50% of lowest to highest, this is the deal I would offer
2019-2020 ---> 7,000,000$ (end of the season he is 30)
2020-2021 ---> 7,000,000$ (end of the season he is 31)
2021-2022 ---> 5,600,000$ (end of the season he is 32)
2022-2023 ---> 5,600,000$ (end of the season he is 33)
2023-2024 ---> 5,600,000$ (end of the season he is 34)
2024-2025 ---> 3,700,000$ (end of the season he is 35)
2025-2026 ---> 3,700,000$ (end of the season he is 36)
Cap hit of 5,457,000

72.7 Million total by the time he turns 36.

11 million dollars more, and 3 more years of service.

Habs benefit from having a norris trophy caliber D, making the money he deserves, 5 years of 6.5 million of more but the habs benefit from under 6 million cap hit.

Paid what he deserves, habs save on cap hit, more space for other high caliber players.

Come on people, get a clue!

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04-05-2013, 01:25 PM
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You know the Habs, and all other 29 NHL teams, pay specific people alot of money to figure out ways to build contracts in a way to save money on the cap.

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04-05-2013, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You know the Habs, and all other 29 NHL teams, pay specific people alot of money to figure out ways to build contracts in a way to save money on the cap.
Yes, but offering Subban a bridge contract puts the Habs in a very bad position. How can you tell Subban to take less money on the first few years of his new contract after winning the Norris? How can you tell him that nearing the end of his contract that he signs at 25, that will end at 33, that he should have less money in the 30-31-32-33 years, when he is in his prime? The habs had a great opportunity to make sure we have a star player at a discount. All signs pointed to him being great, and they didn't want to risk it.

Having an extra 1-1.5 million because your best player is on favorable contract, not only for management, but for him (He still makes 30+ million in 6 years). I could easily be a capologist, money, numbers, projection, efficiency is why I became a civil engineer. Had I known their could be a rout that would have me working with an NHL GM calculating the cap and how to get the most out of it, I would of done that in a heartbeat!

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04-05-2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Yes, but offering Subban a bridge contract puts the Habs in a very bad position. How can you tell Subban to take less money on the first few years of his new contract after winning the Norris? How can you tell him that nearing the end of his contract that he signs at 25, that will end at 33, that he should have less money in the 30-31-32-33 years, when he is in his prime? The habs had a great opportunity to make sure we have a star player at a discount. All signs pointed to him being great, and they didn't want to risk it.

Having an extra 1-1.5 million because your best player is on favorable contract, not only for management, but for him (He still makes 30+ million in 6 years). I could easily be a capologist, money, numbers, projection, efficiency is why I became a civil engineer. Had I known their could be a rout that would have me working with an NHL GM calculating the cap and how to get the most out of it, I would of done that in a heartbeat!
Subban IS on his bridge contract, and just like Price & Pacioretty before him, he'll sign a big deal at some point next year.

I don't see why it's important to have a star player at a discount...I don't know of any teams who have star players at a discount??? (Unless they're on an ELC of course, and it could be argued that Crosby is at a discount I guess)

Star players get paid...that's how it works. I'll never understand fan's obsession with having players on thrifty deals. Habs will have a lot of money available to spend this summer but there are no attractive UFA's and even if there were, the chances they sign in MTL are very slim.

This idea that the Habs must save money on Subban's contract so that they have more hypothetical money to spend on hypothetical free agends borders on absurdity IMO.

Bergevin pretty much told Subba...we know you're good, prove it to us and you'll get paid. He's proving it, so Habs will have to pay.

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04-05-2013, 01:43 PM
  #706
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He's past my estimations I was not sure he was a team player but he's been nothing of the sorts and if he continues near the pace he will be a norris candidate.But the question that will be asked is how much will his agent ask?And are their any bitter feelings due to his not playing early on?

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04-05-2013, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
well if that's the case...it's because earned and deserved it

why the obsession with getting players on thrifty deals?
Because it's smarter?

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04-05-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Because it's smarter?
Better to be thrifty with your role players salaries...you pay your stars because they are your stars.

Makes no sense to nickle & dime your star players...at this rate, Subban is going to make at minimum 6 to 6.5M, time to wrap our heads around that thought. He's a star, that's what stars make

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04-05-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Better to be thrifty with your role players salaries...you pay your stars because they are your stars.

Makes no sense to nickle & dime your star players...at this rate, Subban is going to make at minimum 6 to 6.5M, time to wrap our heads around that thought. He's a star, that's what stars make
Which is exactly what we did by giving him a bridge deal.

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04-05-2013, 03:00 PM
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Subban IS on his bridge contract, and just like Price & Pacioretty before him, he'll sign a big deal at some point next year.
Not the same scenario. Price was fighting with Halak for starting role, he didn't deserve his big contract until he got it. Pacioretty is the same exact thing. He even said it himself that playing in the minors was much better for his development than playing 4th line minutes with JM. Subban is the only player who progressed and showed what he could do. Max and Price both had BIG question marks that Subban didn't.

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I don't see why it's important to have a star player at a discount...I don't know of any teams who have star players at a discount??? (Unless they're on an ELC of course, and it could be argued that Crosby is at a discount I guess)
Just because you have yet to see a precedence, does not mean it is a bad idea. Having star players at a discount opens up so many posibilities when trying to acquire other assets. If you told Subban that this season he would make 3 and in the last year of his deal he would make 7, do you truly believe that is considered nickle and diming? I believe that is managing your cap situation. Also Letang only makes 3.5 M.

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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Star players get paid...that's how it works. I'll never understand fan's obsession with having players on thrifty deals. Habs will have a lot of money available to spend this summer but there are no attractive UFA's and even if there were, the chances they sign in MTL are very slim.
He would get paid! Instead of having this bridge deal, you create it into a long deal. instead of 5.75 for 2 years, 34.5 over 6 years. This way he makes the money he deserves (7+ million) and he also has a cap hit that is easy to manage. WIN WIN! It's not an obsession, its managing your roster. I would never sign Gallagher to the same deal I would offer PK, PK is one of a kind and I am behind him 100%. As good as Gally has been, too many intangibles to give him a long term deal so early in his career. You have to manage each player individually.


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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
This idea that the Habs must save money on Subban's contract so that they have more hypothetical money to spend on hypothetical free agends borders on absurdity IMO.
It isn't only for UFAs but for our own players. Subban isn't the only player to be getting a raise. The Gallys, Emelin, Eller... Having an extra million from the cap helps you keep your own roster players.

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Bergevin pretty much told Subba...we know you're good, prove it to us and you'll get paid. He's proving it, so Habs will have to pay.
Well I don't believe that you didn't see this coming. Subban was worth the risk in January and he showed us exactly that. He works his ass off because he wants to win, not for money. Some posters said he was being greedy for holding out, well the guy knows what he is worth and thought he could get a long term deal now and save the headache in the future. I am one who does not believe he is playing for a new contract. Subban is a winner and will earn every penny. I just believe the risk of Subban being a bad player, was non existent. At 5.75 M, even if he wasn't a Norris candidate, he would still be worth it.

Subban has been great since day 1. Sure we have seen him make mistakes. Sure he isn't perfect. But the man wants to play in MTL, he wants to win in MTL. Nothing will change my mind that the bridge deal was a bad idea. When I looked at defensemen to put my offer together, Subban last year was worth around 4-4.5 M a year. This year he is playing like a top 5 D in the NHL (forget just points, include injured players, he is top 5). 5.75 M puts him tied with Markov for 14th highest paid D.

You need to forget the stigma of trying to be cheap. It's called building a winning franchise. Extra money for the cap will do wonders to bring in players. Instead of signing The Cube for 1.5, having an extra 1.5 lets you go out and grab a D that makes 3 M a year. You have a significant upgrade at D just because you managed the cap properly.

417 you're a logical guy. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant. But try and forget the dwindling of some posters who will not explain the idea thoroughly. I want Subban to make the 7+ he deserves, I do not want to go any way around that. What I would like to do is make the contract start when he deserves less and end high and start the new contract high and finish lower as he approaches the end of his career. Manage the cap, don't let the cap manage you.

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04-05-2013, 03:03 PM
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Which is exactly what we did by giving him a bridge deal.
Hmmm...depends how you look at it. I remember at the time, I initially thought the Habs were making a mistake

But in their defense, Price & Pacioretty went through the same...so not sure why they should change approach with Subban even though it can reasonably be argued that they should have taken a different approach as Subban had 'proven' more after his ELC then Price & Pacioretty did.

But I do applaud them for sticking to their gun and taking a blanket approach (as long as they're consistent going forward)

Now if Subban continues to play the way he has, and I don't see why he wouldn't, then the Habs will have to pay up and i'm sure they gladly will.

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04-05-2013, 03:09 PM
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Not the same scenario. Price was fighting with Halak for starting role, he didn't deserve his big contract until he got it. Pacioretty is the same exact thing. He even said it himself that playing in the minors was much better for his development than playing 4th line minutes with JM. Subban is the only player who progressed and showed what he could do. Max and Price both had BIG question marks that Subban didn't.



Just because you have yet to see a precedence, does not mean it is a bad idea. Having star players at a discount opens up so many posibilities when trying to acquire other assets. If you told Subban that this season he would make 3 and in the last year of his deal he would make 7, do you truly believe that is considered nickle and diming? I believe that is managing your cap situation. Also Letang only makes 3.5 M.



He would get paid! Instead of having this bridge deal, you create it into a long deal. instead of 5.75 for 2 years, 34.5 over 6 years. This way he makes the money he deserves (7+ million) and he also has a cap hit that is easy to manage. WIN WIN! It's not an obsession, its managing your roster. I would never sign Gallagher to the same deal I would offer PK, PK is one of a kind and I am behind him 100%. As good as Gally has been, too many intangibles to give him a long term deal so early in his career. You have to manage each player individually.




It isn't only for UFAs but for our own players. Subban isn't the only player to be getting a raise. The Gallys, Emelin, Eller... Having an extra million from the cap helps you keep your own roster players.



Well I don't believe that you didn't see this coming. Subban was worth the risk in January and he showed us exactly that. He works his ass off because he wants to win, not for money. Some posters said he was being greedy for holding out, well the guy knows what he is worth and thought he could get a long term deal now and save the headache in the future. I am one who does not believe he is playing for a new contract. Subban is a winner and will earn every penny. I just believe the risk of Subban being a bad player, was non existent. At 5.75 M, even if he wasn't a Norris candidate, he would still be worth it.

Subban has been great since day 1. Sure we have seen him make mistakes. Sure he isn't perfect. But the man wants to play in MTL, he wants to win in MTL. Nothing will change my mind that the bridge deal was a bad idea. When I looked at defensemen to put my offer together, Subban last year was worth around 4-4.5 M a year. This year he is playing like a top 5 D in the NHL (forget just points, include injured players, he is top 5). 5.75 M puts him tied with Markov for 14th highest paid D.

You need to forget the stigma of trying to be cheap. It's called building a winning franchise. Extra money for the cap will do wonders to bring in players. Instead of signing The Cube for 1.5, having an extra 1.5 lets you go out and grab a D that makes 3 M a year. You have a significant upgrade at D just because you managed the cap properly.

417 you're a logical guy. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant. But try and forget the dwindling of some posters who will not explain the idea thoroughly. I want Subban to make the 7+ he deserves, I do not want to go any way around that. What I would like to do is make the contract start when he deserves less and end high and start the new contract high and finish lower as he approaches the end of his career. Manage the cap, don't let the cap manage you.
Good post and I agree with alot of what you say...I just think it's irrelevant personally. There's more than enough money for every single team in the NHL to pay their star players and remain competitive from a roster-building point of view, when you draft well & make astute trades, none of that matters...salaries are just numbers and numbers can be bent into any shape you want if you're smart enough.

The salary cap exists to help all teams to be competitive financially, it's not there to act as a dark cloud that looms over ever decision taken from a salary point of view...

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04-05-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
It isn't only for UFAs but for our own players. Subban isn't the only player to be getting a raise. The Gallys, Emelin, Eller... Having an extra million from the cap helps you keep your own roster players.
exactly, and after seeing Subban huge raise (after he took the bridge contract), MB wont have much of a hard time convincing other youngsters to take bridge contracts as they'll see first hand that it will pay off eventually, assuming they progress obviously.

THAT also gives you extra $ on the cap...



What wil you say in about two years if Gallagher keeps playing the way he is now ? give him his long term 3.7 Mil right now, we'll save in the long run ?

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04-05-2013, 03:16 PM
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exactly, and after seeing Subban huge raise (after he took the bridge contract), MB wont have much of a hard time convincing other youngsters to take bridge contracts as they'll see first hand that it will pay off eventually, assuming they progress obviously.

THAT also gives you extra $ on the cap...



What wil you say in about two years if Gallagher keeps playing the way he is now ? give him his long term 3.7 Mil right now, we'll save in the long run ?
Keeping ALL of your players is impossible...figuring out which one's to keep is the real challenge. But when it's time to pay guys like Price, Subban...it's going to cost. That's the nature of business today.

You're also right, having players take bridge contracts also helps MB's save some money on the cap. There are so many ways to manipulate the cap, ways that I don't think fans are able to comprehend. Worrying about the team overpaying here and there is pretty futile.

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04-05-2013, 03:18 PM
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While it's great to see Subban earning his teammates' respect it, would be nice to see them start sticking up for him during game situations. PK is our star player and teams are increasingly targeting him and taking runs at him. His teammates need to step in when this happens. If we look at Kadri, Crosby, Kane, Doughty, Seguin... these players have so much space on the ice because opponents know that they'll pay the consequences if they take cheap shots at the star players. We can't afford to lose PK, and I'd be happier if he had a bit more protection.

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04-05-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
exactly, and after seeing Subban huge raise (after he took the bridge contract), MB wont have much of a hard time convincing other youngsters to take bridge contracts as they'll see first hand that it will pay off eventually, assuming they progress obviously.

THAT also gives you extra $ on the cap...



What wil you say in about two years if Gallagher keeps playing the way he is now ? give him his long term 3.7 Mil right now, we'll save in the long run ?
We will have to make the evaluation when the time comes. I love this kids effort, but I worry about his size in respect to longevity. He adds different variables to this discussion.

The thing about Subban is that I was sure he deserved it. Watching him play since his first playoffs, I was totally impressed by him. Yes there were moments of frustration, but he is still very young, it's very early in his career. I couldn't fathom a real possibility of him falling off and not playing up to at least a 5.75 M D. The worst case (sure other possibilities exist, he could be totally ****...) I saw for him was a similar role to Markov, although Subban is a bit better defensively (we are now talking in the future, worst case 28 year old Subban) but maybe not as good a first pass. His progress has been remarkable and his work ethic is very impressive.

For Gally, I will have to watch more of his game, he is still 2 years on his ELC.

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Keeping ALL of your players is impossible...figuring out which one's to keep is the real challenge. But when it's time to pay guys like Price, Subban...it's going to cost. That's the nature of business today.

You're also right, having players take bridge contracts also helps MB's save some money on the cap. There are so many ways to manipulate the cap, ways that I don't think fans are able to comprehend. Worrying about the team overpaying here and there is pretty futile.
They are mutually exclusive! Saving money on a bridge deal and having your star player locked up for 6 years at 5.75 cap hit, but making his well deserved 7.5M salary is a real possibility! Not every player will get a deal like Subban, he is a one of a kind player. But have the ability to lock up a future star (we all saw it coming, who knew it was going to come this year).

I don't know how you can sit behind your computer and say that Subban is a Norris Trophy candidate but would not of paid him on a long term deal starting in January. The thing is I didn't need to watch these 30 games to know that Subban is the future of this franchise. How many teams can say they have their best D in one player? We have him already at 23. Personally, I thought PK deserves to be paid the equivalent of a 4 M player last year (looking at his stats, TOI, respnsabilties, etc) when compared to his peers. That being said, he is getting better, and I could see no reason for that trend to stop.

I know you want him to get paid for what he does on the ice. But why must his salary be the same value every year?

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04-05-2013, 04:13 PM
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Subban IS on his bridge contract, and just like Price & Pacioretty before him, he'll sign a big deal at some point next year.

I don't see why it's important to have a star player at a discount...I don't know of any teams who have star players at a discount??? (Unless they're on an ELC of course, and it could be argued that Crosby is at a discount I guess)

Star players get paid...that's how it works. I'll never understand fan's obsession with having players on thrifty deals. Habs will have a lot of money available to spend this summer but there are no attractive UFA's and even if there were, the chances they sign in MTL are very slim.

This idea that the Habs must save money on Subban's contract so that they have more hypothetical money to spend on hypothetical free agends borders on absurdity IMO.

Bergevin pretty much told Subba...we know you're good, prove it to us and you'll get paid. He's proving it, so Habs will have to pay.
Price and MaxPac were signed to a bridge deal by another administration and they also had not proven themselves at all.
Price had lost the starting position to Halak and was coming off one of his worst years.
MaxPac had his faced bashed in with only one good half a season in.

Not sure how you can even compare them to PK. He was miles ahead of those two.

Maybe it's not super important to pay your stars less, but you don't need a PhD to know that, in a cap world, any money you can save will help you. Seriously, it's not that hard to understand.
Now, in the previous cap, I agree with you, it pretty much was irrelevant because teams were signing their stars to front loaded contracts. So, you could have Kovalchuk at a pretty low cap of 6.6M. If you wanted to give him the same amount under the new CBA, his cap hit would be 14.285M. Slight difference.
Obviously, there's no way he would have been offered 100M under the new CBA, but his cap hit would have been a lot higher, similar to Getzlaf and Perry.

So if you have a chance to lock up a young very promising talent like PK to say 4.5M/y right away, you don't wait until he's worth 7M+ to do so.

If you're always going to wait until your players are all great until extending them, then eventually you will lose players, and it'll make it harder to grab free agents.

Any move you can save, you do. Now, if we're talking about a guy like Eller, or even Galchenyuk, that hasn't proven much, then ya, makes sense to give them a bridge deal. But if Galchenyuk is centering our first line effectively by next year, like Subban was effectively shutting down opponents as our #1 Dman, then you don't need to wait until he wins the Hart trophy before giving him a long term deal.

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04-05-2013, 06:14 PM
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Hmmm...depends how you look at it. I remember at the time, I initially thought the Habs were making a mistake

But in their defense, Price & Pacioretty went through the same...so not sure why they should change approach with Subban even though it can reasonably be argued that they should have taken a different approach as Subban had 'proven' more after his ELC then Price & Pacioretty did.

But I do applaud them for sticking to their gun and taking a blanket approach (as long as they're consistent going forward)

Now if Subban continues to play the way he has, and I don't see why he wouldn't, then the Habs will have to pay up and i'm sure they gladly will.
To me, a blanket approach for handling star players and non star players is the only thing absurd here. You, yourself knew what PK was capable of, hell, 90% of this board did, there were a few agreeing that Subban hadn't yet proved himself, which, quite frankly was silly.

Each player should be handled on a case by case basis.

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04-05-2013, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Come on people, get a clue!
Oh please. We all understand the point. But sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, and the young star with a bright future ends up unmotivated and doesn't become as good as expected, and now you have to pay him that big fat contract.

MB threw the dice and right now it seems he would have been better giving him a long term deal. It has nothing to do with "having a clue".

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04-05-2013, 06:29 PM
  #720
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
To me, a blanket approach for handling star players and non star players is the only thing absurd here. You, yourself knew what PK was capable of, hell, 90% of this board did, there were a few agreeing that Subban hadn't yet proved himself, which, quite frankly was silly.

Each player should be handled on a case by case basis.
I'm not sure this is true.

There are a ton of people who are clueless at evaluating talent. I was very involved in the contract talks threads and I remember a lot of idiots saying a lot of dumb things.

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04-05-2013, 06:29 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
To me, a blanket approach for handling star players and non star players is the only thing absurd here. You, yourself knew what PK was capable of, hell, 90% of this board did, there were a few agreeing that Subban hadn't yet proved himself, which, quite frankly was silly.

Each player should be handled on a case by case basis.
For the record, I wanted the habs to sign Subban to a long term deal when he was holding out

But now that he's signed his bridge deal and is performing, I cldnt careless about how much he'll eventually sign for... He's earned whatever deal he'll get

And if MB made his job more complicated, then that's on him... I'm sure he'll find a way around it

You know... Like all other GM's do

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04-05-2013, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
For the record, I wanted the habs to sign Subban to a long term deal when he was holding out

But now that he's signed his bridge deal and is performing, I cldnt careless about how much he'll eventually sign for... He's earned whatever deal he'll get

And if MB made his job more complicated, then that's on him... I'm sure he'll find a way around it

You know... Like all other GM's do
That's fine, but it's not because you couldn't care less that it wasn't a mistake.

What's done is done, we will have to sign PK to a much bigger deal now, but still, we should have locked him up before. Anytime you can save some cash, you do it, especially when it's a sure bet like PK.

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04-05-2013, 06:36 PM
  #723
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
For the record, I wanted the habs to sign Subban to a long term deal when he was holding out

But now that he's signed his bridge deal and is performing, I cldnt careless about how much he'll eventually sign for... He's earned whatever deal he'll get

And if MB made his job more complicated, then that's on him... I'm sure he'll find a way around it

You know... Like all other GM's do
I have moved on. MB has had a great first year, and as long as he does the right thing THIS summer and extends Subban to an 8 year deal, I'm fine with whatever.

Now I think you underestimate the effect this will have on the team. There could be a 2-3M difference which could be the difference between re-signing Ryder or having to roll the dice on some UFA with less reputation whom we believe can take the next step with us. That's all fine and dandy if we have amazing pro scouts and we're ahead of the curve and we can somehow make sure these players want to sign with us despite all of the negative factors surrounding the team.

The truth is that GMs need every advantages they can get, and signings your RFAs out of their ELC deals to long term contracts at a lower value is one tool you can use to get ahead of other teams. We didn't take advantage of it, it's not the end of the world, but it has more consequences than you think.

Whatever, I've moved on. He'll make big dollars, pressure will be higher, and let's hope that our crazy market doesn't turn on him. It just bothered me that MB messed up on the most obvious move of the summer.

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04-05-2013, 06:38 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Price and MaxPac were signed to a bridge deal by another administration and they also had not proven themselves at all.
Price had lost the starting position to Halak and was coming off one of his worst years.
MaxPac had his faced bashed in with only one good half a season in.

Not sure how you can even compare them to PK. He was miles ahead of those two.

Maybe it's not super important to pay your stars less, but you don't need a PhD to know that, in a cap world, any money you can save will help you. Seriously, it's not that hard to understand.
Now, in the previous cap, I agree with you, it pretty much was irrelevant because teams were signing their stars to front loaded contracts. So, you could have Kovalchuk at a pretty low cap of 6.6M. If you wanted to give him the same amount under the new CBA, his cap hit would be 14.285M. Slight difference.
Obviously, there's no way he would have been offered 100M under the new CBA, but his cap hit would have been a lot higher, similar to Getzlaf and Perry.

So if you have a chance to lock up a young very promising talent like PK to say 4.5M/y right away, you don't wait until he's worth 7M+ to do so.

If you're always going to wait until your players are all great until extending them, then eventually you will lose players, and it'll make it harder to grab free agents.

Any move you can save, you do. Now, if we're talking about a guy like Eller, or even Galchenyuk, that hasn't proven much, then ya, makes sense to give them a bridge deal. But if Galchenyuk is centering our first line effectively by next year, like Subban was effectively shutting down opponents as our #1 Dman, then you don't need to wait until he wins the Hart trophy before giving him a long term deal.
I think you've misunderstood my post... I didn't necessarily agree with how the habs approached Subban's currently deal

I've gained an appreciation for it now... But I still think it will cost the habs more in the long run because IMO, and I've always thought thus, Subban is the habs surest thing... Of all our players with high upside, I happen to think that Subban is the likeliest to reach it

But I'm not sitting here biting my nails now that he's on his way to earning that big deal... Why the hell wld I be? I'm happy as hell, he will have earned his next contract

Feeling sorry for myself about the fact the habs missed out on getting him signed to a thrifty deal so they have more money to sign a hypothetical player 2 yrs from now, seems kinda silly...

Any player that the habs WANT to sign, whether that player is their own or a free agent, they'll find a way to sign him as long as the interest is mutual

It's not the fact that PK will be making 7M in 2 yrs as opposed to 5M that's going to prevent them from doing that

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04-05-2013, 06:43 PM
  #725
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It is quite possible that the bridge deal and the difficult negotiations provided the motivation for Subban to mature, develop and play up to his potential! There us no complacency in his game so far. The bridge contract IMO contributed to Subban's Norris calibre play.

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