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ATD 2013 - Draft Thread VII

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Old
04-01-2013, 03:55 AM
  #51
ck26
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April 6 for roster moves + April 10 to finish assassinations looks great.

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04-02-2013, 07:42 PM
  #52
TheDevilMadeMe
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Here's a running list. I'm counting short critiques as 0.5 assassinations. If a GM made some short comments about teams in a division without focusing on a single team, I'm crediting him with 0.5 given, but not counting them for the individual teams as received.

Assassinations received:

Red Fisher Conference

Foster Hewitt Division
1. Modo - Dawson City Nuggets: 3.5
9. Velociraptor - Trail Smoke Eaters: 2
17. BraveCanadian - Guelph Platers: 2
25. overpass & bluesfan94 - Ottawa Senators: 2

Jim Robson Division
3. Jafar - Montreal Canadiens: 2.5
11. Reds4Life - Detroit Red Wings: 1 (NEEDS TO POST)
19. papershoes & SchultzSquared - Kenora Thistles: 2
27. Hawkey Town 18 - Chicago Shamrocks: 2

James Creighton Division
5. Nalyd Psycho & Mike Farkas - Minnesota Fighting Saints: 1.5
13. Murphy & gmm - Edmonton Mercurys: 1.5
21. BubbaBoot - Boston Mules: 1.5
29. Stoneberg & Croskinnon - Halifax Mooseheads: 1 (NEED TO POST)

Louis Magnus Division
7. Dwight - West Island Lions: 2.5
15. monster_bertuzzi - Vancouver Millionares: 2.5
23. Darth Yoda - Viking Maniacs: NEED TO POST
31. JFA87-66-99 - Pittsburgh Bankers: 1 (NEED TO POST)

Jim Coleman Conference

Bob Cole Division
2. VanIslander & Hedberg - Hershey Bears: 2
10. Hobnobs - Seattle Eskimos: 1.5
18. vecens24 & Dreakmur - Mystery Alaskans: 2
26. markrander87 - Cincinnati Fireworks: 2

Rene Lecavalier Division
4. Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs: 2
12. MadArcand - Hartford Whalers: 2.5
20. ck26 - Dallas Black Hawks: 1.5
28. TheDevilMadeMe - New Jersey Swamp Devils: 4.5

Ray Scapinello Division
6. Bring Back Scuderi - Pittsburgh Athletic Club: 3
14. jkrx & KingForsberg - Philadelphia Firebirds: 2
22. nik jr. - University of Alaska Nanooks: 2
30. BillyShoe1721 - Philadelphia Flyers: 3.5

Sam Pollock Division
8. DoMakc - HC Donbass: 2
16. tony d - Baltimore Blades: 2
24. EagleBelfour & DaveG - Les Nordiques de Québec: 2
32. Johnny Engine - Yekaterinburg Automobilist: 3.5

Assassinations given: after 4/5 I'm no longer bothering to update this

TheDevilMadeMe: 11.5
BillyShoe1721: 8.5
Sturminator: 5
BraveCanadian: 5.5
tony D: 7
overpass: 4
Velociraptor: 3.5
Hawkey Town 18: 4
ck26: 2.5
BubbaBoot: 2
markrander87: 2
Dreakmur: 1
MadArcand: 1
Jafar: 1
Bring Back Scuderi: 1
VanIslander: 1
Eagle Belfour: 5
Monster Bertuzzi: 0.5
gmm: 0.5


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 04-08-2013 at 06:56 PM.
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Old
04-03-2013, 12:53 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
April 6 for roster moves + April 10 to finish assassinations looks great.
Okay, April 6 is the deadline for roster moves, because there's not enough time to change it. But I screwed up. Assassinations ending should be 10 days from the end of the draft, which would be April 7. But I must have had "10" on my mind when I said April 10th. I don't think that gives enough time from the end of add/drop, but what about ending assassinations on April 8? Or should we just stick to April 10th since not a single GM complained or even noticed my screw up?

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04-03-2013, 09:59 AM
  #54
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Keep it as is, April 10th as deadline for assasinations and April 11th as the day we start ranking for the playoffs with an April 15th deadline for voting on the 1st round.

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Old
04-03-2013, 10:16 AM
  #55
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I thought my multiple inquiries & suggestion on Johnny Engine's team was deserving of small 0.5?

I'm trying to be a good ATD boy this year and doing more reviews than I usually do. I think having been around for a long time makes it far easier (and faster) for to criticize team and giving opinions. I'll try to do a third one before the end of the evening.

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Old
04-05-2013, 07:36 AM
  #56
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Going to do a small Roenick profile this evening. Anybody want to help me with a good picture for it? There are...so many possibilities. I was thinking of using this:



...or this:



...but there are thousands of pictures of the guy out there.

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Old
04-05-2013, 07:45 AM
  #57
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Im sorry I havent been able to review like I was planning to but my grandpas condition has forced me into a casual stance..

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Old
04-05-2013, 03:54 PM
  #58
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Allright...well, the Laraque trolling has been fun, but I do agree that as our 4th spare he's probably marginally less valuable than an actual hockey player, so after very little consideration, I'm going to drop Georges Laraque.

Having Laraque instead of a hockey-playing RW didn't really concern me all that much because Montreal is a team with very few injury problems, especially at RW, and a couple of starters who play both wings (Doan and Klukay). But every team has a few guys who get banged up from time-to-time, and that's one thing I always try to address with choices of spares. Also, I think this team is a contender, and it would kind of bug me to see Laraque's name on the roster of a champion ahead of a more deserving player. The only guys on the roster I can see that had any kind of meaningful injury struggles are:

- Jeremy Roenick (two seasons ~ 15 games missed, knee)

- Bobby Rowe (looks like he struggled with a lower leg injury in the days before good shinpads)

- Sergei Kapustin (shoulder problems early in his career, but doesn't seem to have had chronic issues)

- Joe Klukay (got a bit banged up a couple of seasons it looks like, missed ~ 15 games twice)

- Troy Murray (generally got beat up due to his physical style of play)

We've got Thomas, Spezza, and Ley already to theoretically fill in for the LWs, Roenick and Rowe, but nobody who would be a good fit to step into the role Murray plays when he misses time. So I'm going to add a guy I thought was a fine player in his time, and a seventieslord favorite, Patrik Sundstrom, C/LW.


Last edited by Sturminator: 04-05-2013 at 04:59 PM.
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Old
04-05-2013, 06:31 PM
  #59
Hawkman
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Kudos to TDMM or whoever highlighted in green the dropped players. It's a nice touch that I hope becomes an ATD tradition.

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04-05-2013, 10:12 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmm View Post
... highlighted in green the dropped players. It's a nice touch that I hope becomes an ATD tradition.
Indeed.

Having the colored pick with the "DROPPED" designation next to it ought to avoid compounding the mistake in the future, or at least make drafters think twice before making the selection, encouraging carefulness.



Last edited by VanIslander: 04-05-2013 at 10:19 PM.
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Old
04-06-2013, 03:33 AM
  #61
MadArcand
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Poor Osgood, being dropped while jokes like MAF remain drafted.

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Old
04-08-2013, 06:28 PM
  #62
Hawkey Town 18
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I don't think this has been discussed yet...I would really like the playoff results to be announced in the way that we came up with last year. It goes like this...

Announce team who wins, then announce how many GM's voted for each team in x number of games. For example:

Team A wins

3 GM's had Team A in 5 games
8 GM's had Team A in 6 games
11 GM's had Team A in 7 games
4 GM's had Team B in 7 games
4 GM's had Team B in 6 games

This way the results are kept anonymous, and there is more information about how each team is perceived.


Thoughts?

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Old
04-08-2013, 06:32 PM
  #63
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I don't think this has been discussed yet...I would really like the playoff results to be announced in the way that we came up with last year. It goes like this...

Announce team who wins, then announce how many GM's voted for each team in x number of games. For example:

Team A wins

3 GM's had Team A in 5 games
8 GM's had Team A in 6 games
11 GM's had Team A in 7 games
4 GM's had Team B in 7 games
4 GM's had Team B in 6 games

This way the results are kept anonymous, and there is more information about how each team is perceived.


Thoughts?
Pro: It introduces some kind of "anonymous accountability" where perhaps the GM who votes for team that beat him in the first round to get swept for every round for the rest of the draft might be shamed into not doing that anymore.

Con: It takes us farther way from the realm of fantasy where these teams are actually competing and Team A beats Team B in 6 games after a hard fought playoff series.

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Old
04-08-2013, 07:03 PM
  #64
TheDevilMadeMe
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I believe this is properly updated with 2 days left for these. If I missed anyone, I apologize, it wasn't on purpose. This is just to help give you guys a rough guide as to who to assassinate next.

Assassinations received:

Red Fisher Conference

Foster Hewitt Division
1. Modo - Dawson City Nuggets: 3.5
9. Velociraptor - Trail Smoke Eaters: 2
17. BraveCanadian - Guelph Platers: 2
25. overpass & bluesfan94 - Ottawa Senators: 2

Jim Robson Division
3. Jafar - Montreal Canadiens: 2.5
11. Reds4Life - Detroit Red Wings: 1 (no posting though)
19. papershoes & SchultzSquared - Kenora Thistles: 2
27. Hawkey Town 18 - Chicago Shamrocks: 2

James Creighton Division
5. Nalyd Psycho & Mike Farkas - Minnesota Fighting Saints: 3
13. Murphy & gmm - Edmonton Mercurys: 2.5
21. BubbaBoot - Boston Mules: 2.5
29. Stoneberg & Croskinnon - Halifax Mooseheads: 3 (no posting though)

Louis Magnus Division
7. Dwight - West Island Lions: 2.5
15. monster_bertuzzi - Vancouver Millionares: 2.5
23. Darth Yoda - Viking Maniacs: 2
31. JFA87-66-99 - Pittsburgh Bankers: 1 (no posting though)

Jim Coleman Conference

Bob Cole Division
2. VanIslander & Hedberg - Hershey Bears: 2
10. Hobnobs - Seattle Eskimos: 1.5
18. vecens24 & Dreakmur - Mystery Alaskans: 2
26. markrander87 - Cincinnati Fireworks: 3

Rene Lecavalier Division
4. Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs: 2
12. MadArcand - Hartford Whalers: 2.5
20. ck26 - Dallas Black Hawks: 1.5
28. TheDevilMadeMe - New Jersey Swamp Devils: 4.5

Ray Scapinello Division
6. Bring Back Scuderi - Pittsburgh Athletic Club: 3
14. jkrx & KingForsberg - Philadelphia Firebirds: 2
22. nik jr. - University of Alaska Nanooks: 2
30. BillyShoe1721 - Philadelphia Flyers: 3.5

Sam Pollock Division
8. DoMakc - HC Donbass: 2
16. tony d - Baltimore Blades: 3
24. EagleBelfour & DaveG - Les Nordiques de Québec: 2
32. Johnny Engine - Yekaterinburg Automobilist: 3.5

Assassinations given

TheDevilMadeMe: 14.5
BillyShoe1721: 9.5
tony D: 7
Sturminator: 6
BraveCanadian: 5.5
Eagle Belfour: 5
Hawkey Town 18: 5
overpass: 4
Velociraptor: 3.5
ck26: 3.5
BubbaBoot: 2
markrander87: 2
Hedberg: 2
Nalyd Psycho: 1.5
Dreakmur: 1
MadArcand: 1
Jafar: 1
Bring Back Scuderi: 1
VanIslander: 1
Monster Bertuzzi: 0.5
gmm: 0.5


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 04-09-2013 at 04:37 PM.
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Old
04-08-2013, 08:03 PM
  #65
Hawkman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Pro: It introduces some kind of "anonymous accountability" where perhaps the GM who votes for team that beat him in the first round to get swept for every round for the rest of the draft might be shamed into not doing that anymore.

Con: It takes us farther way from the realm of fantasy where these teams are actually competing and Team A beats Team B in 6 games after a hard fought playoff series.
Con: Agreed 100%. It shatters the illusion of a "real" series. I'd just stop sending in numbers of games the series went. It may be too much work and I don't feel qualified, but it would be awesome if someone like Sturm or 70s could write the individual game summaries for The Finals only and they could be posted at least an hour apart to build suspense and tension.

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04-08-2013, 08:49 PM
  #66
ck26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmm View Post
Con: Agreed 100%. It shatters the illusion of a "real" series. I'd just stop sending in numbers of games the series went. It may be too much work and I don't feel qualified, but it would be awesome if someone like Sturm or 70s could write the individual game summaries for The Finals only and they could be posted at least an hour apart to build suspense and tension.
In past drafts, voters have been asked to nominate MVP's and chime in opinions, not just "Dallas in 5" ... doing so will give the counters / writers a pool of opinions about individual events / games, which helps give the writeups more flavor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Pro: It introduces some kind of "anonymous accountability" where perhaps the GM who votes for team that beat him in the first round to get swept for every round for the rest of the draft might be shamed into not doing that anymore.

Con: It takes us farther way from the realm of fantasy where these teams are actually competing and Team A beats Team B in 6 games after a hard fought playoff series.
Don't understand the con ... the more information, the better. My last playoff series was in ATD 10 ... my Dallas team (Robinson, Dryden, Pronger, Bouchard, Lindros, all-defense, all-physicality) versus a run-and-gun offensive Kenora team (Lach, Dionne, Kelly, Lafleur and Blake) ... super-polarizing matchup. A series like that begs for examination of the voting patterns, because you're less likely to get unanimous 7's and more likely to get a 51/49 split of 4's and 5's. The distinction is important.

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04-09-2013, 01:12 AM
  #67
Sturminator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Announce team who wins, then announce how many GM's voted for each team in x number of games. For example:

Team A wins

3 GM's had Team A in 5 games
8 GM's had Team A in 6 games
11 GM's had Team A in 7 games
4 GM's had Team B in 7 games
4 GM's had Team B in 6 games

This way the results are kept anonymous, and there is more information about how each team is perceived.
I think this is a good idea. I wish we had spoiler tags here that could be used to hide the results for those who don't want to see them, because I do agree that it breaks the illusion somewhat. I would suggest that instead of posting the voting results in the actual draft thread, we post them here, in this thread. GM's who don't want to know can simply avoid the posts with all the results in them.

I will post the results for the Jim Coleman conference in as terse a form as I can. Something like this:

# Games Team A Team B
4 0 1
5 3 2
6 6 3
7 12 14

It gives all the information without wasting a lot of time or space, and is dense enough that those who do not wish to really see the results can pass over it without clearly understanding what the table means.

The other pro of posting this information is that is may further the discussion on what standards we should use to determine in how many games the winners advance. I have never been really happy with how that is determined, and posting the voting results will at least put the data out there so everybody can give their opinion about how it should be handled.

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04-09-2013, 02:52 AM
  #68
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I think this is a good idea. I wish we had spoiler tags here that could be used to hide the results for those who don't want to see them, because I do agree that it breaks the illusion somewhat. I would suggest that instead of posting the voting results in the actual draft thread, we post them here, in this thread. GM's who don't want to know can simply avoid the posts with all the results in them.

I will post the results for the Jim Coleman conference in as terse a form as I can. Something like this:

# Games Team A Team B
4 0 1
5 3 2
6 6 3
7 12 14

It gives all the information without wasting a lot of time or space, and is dense enough that those who do not wish to really see the results can pass over it without clearly understanding what the table means.

The other pro of posting this information is that is may further the discussion on what standards we should use to determine in how many games the winners advance. I have never been really happy with how that is determined, and posting the voting results will at least put the data out there so everybody can give their opinion about how it should be handled.
that could be a good compromise. Another idea could be to release these tables after the ATD playoffs are over


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 04-09-2013 at 03:45 AM.
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Old
04-09-2013, 06:07 AM
  #69
Sturminator
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
that could be a good compromise. Another idea could be to release these tables after the ATD playoffs are over
Oh, I should have made myself clear. I think this absolutely must be done post-draft. If we do it after every round there will likely be a lot of pissing and moaning about the number of games that each series goes to, and I don't have the energy for that nonsense. Besides, voters (here and elsewhere) can be sheep, and feedback loops often occur in voting behavior.

Printing the voting during the draft could actually interfere with voting in later rounds. Team A and B meet in the conference finals. Team A has rolled its opponents in the first two rounds, while Team B has won a couple of close contests. Posting the voting numbers for each round might make Team A look like the better team irrespective of the actual strength of the roster simply because "everybody's voting for them". Let's not pollute the voting in this way.

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04-09-2013, 07:36 AM
  #70
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At the risk of looking foolish, how does one "vote" for a team? What is the criteria?

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04-09-2013, 11:21 AM
  #71
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Oh, I should have made myself clear. I think this absolutely must be done post-draft. If we do it after every round there will likely be a lot of pissing and moaning about the number of games that each series goes to, and I don't have the energy for that nonsense. Besides, voters (here and elsewhere) can be sheep, and feedback loops often occur in voting behavior.

Printing the voting during the draft could actually interfere with voting in later rounds. Team A and B meet in the conference finals. Team A has rolled its opponents in the first two rounds, while Team B has won a couple of close contests. Posting the voting numbers for each round might make Team A look like the better team irrespective of the actual strength of the roster simply because "everybody's voting for them". Let's not pollute the voting in this way.
yes, in that case, let's do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
At the risk of looking foolish, how does one "vote" for a team? What is the criteria?
you'll rank the 4 teams in each conference against each other 1-4, based on how you think they'd finish in an imaginary season. Best team first, worst team last... though with only 4 teams per division, you can also pay attention to how you think they'd match up against each other, too.

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04-09-2013, 11:31 AM
  #72
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Oh, I should have made myself clear. I think this absolutely must be done post-draft. If we do it after every round there will likely be a lot of pissing and moaning about the number of games that each series goes to, and I don't have the energy for that nonsense. Besides, voters (here and elsewhere) can be sheep, and feedback loops often occur in voting behavior.

Printing the voting during the draft could actually interfere with voting in later rounds. Team A and B meet in the conference finals. Team A has rolled its opponents in the first two rounds, while Team B has won a couple of close contests. Posting the voting numbers for each round might make Team A look like the better team irrespective of the actual strength of the roster simply because "everybody's voting for them". Let's not pollute the voting in this way.
Sounds good to me

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Old
04-09-2013, 12:03 PM
  #73
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I just finished my divisional voting, could I send it to the balloter tonight? I have an exam tomorrow and Thursday, which doesn't leave me much time to send my results in tomorrow.

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Old
04-09-2013, 12:06 PM
  #74
Sturminator
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Jim Coleman conference votes go to me.

Red Fisher conference votes go to TDMM.

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04-09-2013, 12:20 PM
  #75
TheDevilMadeMe
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I just finished my divisional voting, could I send it to the balloter tonight? I have an exam tomorrow and Thursday, which doesn't leave me much time to send my results in tomorrow.
It's fine because you have a special reason. Anyone who sends in votes early without a a special reason will be ignored, since GMs may be relying on the deadline to make final arguments.

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