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Mtl - Flyers at Draft

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Old
04-05-2013, 09:07 PM
  #76
Hugo Sham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Scouring reports?

Do you even hockey?

They were both analytic views on the season Couturier had last year.

lol Habs fans are hilarious. Galchenyuk only has 17 points this year. He sucks, amirite?

Only 12 forwards in the entire NHL with at least 20 games played start in the offensive zone less than Couturier. He starts almost 70% of his shifts in the defensive zone. All the while facing the toughest opposing lines, with linemates like Max Talbot and Zac Rinaldo.

He's playing some of the toughest minutes (zone starts, opponent matchups, linemates, etc.) in the entire NHL.

His job, at this point in his career, is not to put up points. That is just gravy. He's playing in an extreme defensive role because he's already one of the better defensive forwards in the game.

Keep on undervaluing, him, Habs fans. He's a blue-chip stud C and I sure as hell wouldn't part with him for lesser players like Tinordi and Beaulieu.
all your post shows is how sweet **** all you know about Tinordi and Beaulieu.

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Old
04-05-2013, 09:13 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Scouring reports?

Do you even hockey?

They were both analytic views on the season Couturier had last year.

lol Habs fans are hilarious. Galchenyuk only has 17 points this year. He sucks, amirite?

Only 12 forwards in the entire NHL with at least 20 games played start in the offensive zone less than Couturier. He starts almost 70% of his shifts in the defensive zone. All the while facing the toughest opposing lines, with linemates like Max Talbot and Zac Rinaldo.

He's playing some of the toughest minutes (zone starts, opponent matchups, linemates, etc.) in the entire NHL.

His job, at this point in his career, is not to put up points. That is just gravy. He's playing in an extreme defensive role because he's already one of the better defensive forwards in the game.

Keep on undervaluing, him, Habs fans. He's a blue-chip stud C and I sure as hell wouldn't part with him for lesser players like Tinordi and Beaulieu.
Well of course not, but it's funny how barely 3 months ago, most Flyers fan didn't want to trade Couturier for Subban straight up.

If I were the Flyers, I wouldn't trade Couturier straight up for either Beaulieu or Tinordi... But the thing is, from a Habs perspective, we have no need for Couturier, and I think that's why some Habs fans are reticent to trade our top D prospects for him.

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04-05-2013, 09:33 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
all your post shows is how sweet **** all you know about Tinordi and Beaulieu.
Until your boys can stop Malkin and stay with the top offensive centers in the league we can stay ignorant of their abilities. We got ours. We only want someone who can, not someone who someday might.

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04-05-2013, 09:40 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Keep on undervaluing, him, Habs fans. He's a blue-chip stud C and I sure as hell wouldn't part with him for lesser players like Tinordi and Beaulieu.
I think Habs fans are still annoyed with some posters saying that Couturier had the same, if not more value than Subban, which wasn't true then and isn't true now.

Flyer fans don't want to trade Couturier unless their getting a young #1 d-man back, which they aren't getting for him without a big plus. Montreal doesn't need Couturier, so why would they trade assets for a player they don't need, even if it's a good young player? The Flyers should keep their player and the Habs keep their players.

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04-05-2013, 09:41 PM
  #80
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I'd rather keep Beaulieu since Eller and Couturier are pretty similar. The slight upgrade and language change isnt worth it

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Old
04-05-2013, 09:45 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
I think Habs fans are still annoyed with some posters saying that Couturier had the same, if not more value than Subban, which wasn't true then and isn't true now.

Flyer fans don't want to trade Couturier unless their getting a young #1 d-man back, which they aren't getting for him without a big plus. Montreal doesn't need Couturier, so why would they trade assets for a player they don't need, even if it's a good young player? The Flyers should keep their player and the Habs keep their players.
Why are you so logical? We are having fun argue with Flyers' fans.

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04-05-2013, 09:56 PM
  #82
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people keep bringing up that we don't need cooter..
DD is tiny he's 26yrs old and is prob only going to be doing 60pts
max a season and can't play any defensive game.
Plekanec is the best C on the habs but he's 30yrs old.
I don't understand why it wouldn't be good for the Habs to get
a 6'4'' 200lbs centermen thats 20yrs old. That is prob going to be
better than Eller, DD and all other C that we have coming up.
Bringing cooter would give us the chance to have small wingers
playing on the top 9. which is 85% of our good winger prospects.
Chucky, Cooter, Eller as top 3 centers is way better than Chucky, DD, Eller IMO.
Gallagher, Collberg, Hudon, Kristo, Archambault are all small wingers.
we have Subban, Diaz and Thrower, Dietz and Ellis coming up. I can't
believe that one of those prospects can't be a 3rd offensive D-man..
especially Thrower... trading Beaulieu isn't that big of a deal..

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04-05-2013, 09:57 PM
  #83
Hugo Sham
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Originally Posted by Jumping View Post
Until your boys can stop Malkin and stay with the top offensive centers in the league we can stay ignorant of their abilities. We got ours. We only want someone who can, not someone who someday might.
Great so he's a 20 Y.O shut down Center. PS defense can be taught offensive skills CAN'T. So I hope he proves me wrong and becomes more than a 20/20 shut down, 3rd line center...

because defensively solid, 3rd line centers, regardless of their age, probably won't get you a sniff at a young top 3-4 dman - let alone top pairing

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04-05-2013, 10:08 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
Great so he's a 20 Y.O shut down Center. PS defense can be taught offensive skills CAN'T. So I hope he proves me wrong and becomes more than a 20/20 shut down, 3rd line center...

because defensively solid, 3rd line centers, regardless of their age, probably won't get you a sniff at a young top 3-4 dman - let alone top pairing
exactly. Cooter for the package is good then. it more then enough given.

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04-05-2013, 10:08 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Typical Flyer fan cherry picking stats...

First, Galchenyuk has 17 points in 37 games. Work out his PPG average and compare to Couturier's last season and this season.

Second, If Couturier is a bluechip defensive stalwart then his stats certainly don't show it. Putting aside his horrible skating and lack of points, how do you explain his second worst plus/minus on the team?

Third, the fact that you call Couturier a bluechip stud C clearly shows how badly you overrate him. Because news flash, he's hardly a stud nor blue-chip after the performance he has put in this season. You can make an argument that he has regressed.

Couturier has to be the most overrated player in the league. Yakupov a close second. Its disgraceful.

Couturier reminds me of Latendresse. Both have size and horrible skating. Latendresse has/had more offensive potential. Couturier is better defensively. Both are French Canadian. Both are (in Latendresse's case was) terribly overrated by their respective fanbases.

If Beaulieu was a Flyer, you would probably call him a stud gold-chip prospect! (or maybe platinum)
This is one of the funniest posts I've ever read in these forums. Thank you.

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04-05-2013, 10:15 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
Great so he's a 20 Y.O shut down Center. PS defense can be taught offensive skills CAN'T. So I hope he proves me wrong and becomes more than a 20/20 shut down, 3rd line center...

because defensively solid, 3rd line centers, regardless of their age, probably won't get you a sniff at a young top 3-4 dman - let alone top pairing
Actually, former Flyer Mike Richards made a huge improvement in his offensive skills in his third NHL season when was a 22 year old. He turned into a PPG player pretty much overnight.

I don't know if Couturier can do that next season or even in his fourth season when he will be 22, but it has happened before.

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Old
04-06-2013, 12:40 AM
  #87
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How about Coots + 2013 1st + a 2nd for Subban. Then Simmonds and Subban can be the "Bash Brothas"......

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04-06-2013, 12:50 AM
  #88
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Would love to have Coots. But we're not good trading partners with them right now. Both have center depth. We don't want to part with tinordi or NB which is what they'll be looking for.
Now, to just join the fun, on draft day.

Pleks for Coots+2nd

Then we can roll with eller, couturier, Chucky. Trade DD on draft day for a 2nd+mid level prospect. We get more picks to continue the transition and our size.
They get Pleks, one of the best 2nd line centers with both offensive and defensive skills which shelters Schenn one more year to really develop in the NHL and breakout without a spotlight on him.

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04-06-2013, 12:58 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Typical Flyer fan cherry picking stats...

First, Galchenyuk has 17 points in 37 games. Work out his PPG average and compare to Couturier's last season and this season.

Second, If Couturier is a bluechip defensive stalwart then his stats certainly don't show it. Putting aside his horrible skating and lack of points, how do you explain his second worst plus/minus on the team?

Third, the fact that you call Couturier a bluechip stud C clearly shows how badly you overrate him. Because news flash, he's hardly a stud nor blue-chip after the performance he has put in this season. You can make an argument that he has regressed.

Couturier has to be the most overrated player in the league. Yakupov a close second. Its disgraceful.

Couturier reminds me of Latendresse. Both have size and horrible skating. Latendresse has/had more offensive potential. Couturier is better defensively. Both are French Canadian. Both are (in Latendresse's case was) terribly overrated by their respective fanbases.

If Beaulieu was a Flyer, you would probably call him a stud gold-chip prospect! (or maybe platinum)
Your doing what most fans do...your diminishing the other teams talent as in Couts and over praising your own....such are most sports fans.

It is no accident that many teams have inquired about Couts in possible trade scenarios...the kid is just getting started....you act like he is never going to get better ...lol.....

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04-06-2013, 01:04 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Typical Flyer fan cherry picking stats...

First, Galchenyuk has 17 points in 37 games. Work out his PPG average and compare to Couturier's last season and this season.
Gally's rookie year vs. Cooters rookie year:

Galchenyuk: 4g, 13a, 17p in 37 games played = .108 GPG, .459 PPG
Couturier 13g 14a, 27p in 77 games played = .169 GPG, .351 PPG

Powerplay time per game: Gally: 1 min, 6 seconds Couturier: 26 seconds

Galchenyuk's most common linemates: Lars Eller, Brandon Prust
Couturier's most common linemates: Max Talbot, Zac Rinaldo

Corsi Rel QoC:
Couturier: +0.760 (4th among forwards on Flyers)
Galchenyuk: +0.084 (8th among forwards on MTL)

Corsi Rel QoT:
Couturier: -1.741 (11th among forwards on Flyers)
Galchenyuk: -1.038 (7th among forwards on MTL)

Zone Starts:
Couturier: 40.3% (dead last among forwards on Flyers)
Galchenyuk:55.1% (5th among forwards on MTL)

Pretty sure that didn't exactly turn out the way you had hoped. Despite having significant less offensive opportunities than the golden boy Galchenyuk, Couturier more than holds his own, scoring significantly more goals. And despite having way less offensive zone starts, facing way harder competition, playing with worse teammates, playing less powerplay time, etc a comparison of their rookie years per 82 games would have Couturier scoring ~5 more goals and only ~9 less points.

If Couturier scores within 9 points of Galchenyuk throughout their respective careers, there's no question whatsoever that Couturier will be the more valuable player.
____________________________

And I'm not saying Couturier and Galchenyuk are of equal value, I'm just saying you picked a terrible way to try to make your point by daring Flyers fans to compare Couturier's rookie year to Gally's.

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04-06-2013, 01:25 AM
  #91
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Both sides pass.
Pretty sure Flyers will want more than what's offered
And Habs don't need more C's

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04-06-2013, 01:29 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenstickytoes View Post
you definitely have no idea who Beaulieu is do you? lolll
He's a prospect still. He's played 2 NHL games. Why would Philly trade one of their star centers for a D prospect (abit a very good one) who hasn't even established that he can play in the NHL.

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Old
04-06-2013, 07:31 AM
  #93
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I know it was an example, but they wouldn't get Brodin for Couturier.

A D-man like Jake Gardiner is probably more in line with what they could get...maybe Gardiner+ a little but i'm not sure that Couturier has the upside to him to warrant considering trading a young potential #1/2.
I'm not sure Gardiner has the upside to warrant trading a potential #1A/1B C in Couturier. It works both ways.

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04-06-2013, 07:41 AM
  #94
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This is just a deal where both parties value their own players too much and Montreal doesn't have the need for Coots to trade away our second best prospect. If Montreal didn't have the center depth that we have right now I'd consider doing it.

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04-06-2013, 07:43 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
I think Habs fans are still annoyed with some posters saying that Couturier had the same, if not more value than Subban, which wasn't true then and isn't true now.

Flyer fans don't want to trade Couturier unless their getting a young #1 d-man back, which they aren't getting for him without a big plus. Montreal doesn't need Couturier, so why would they trade assets for a player they don't need, even if it's a good young player? The Flyers should keep their player and the Habs keep their players.
This, people should really look into what the team needs and then make proposals.

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04-06-2013, 10:00 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Gally's rookie year vs. Cooters rookie year:

Galchenyuk: 4g, 13a, 17p in 37 games played = .108 GPG, .459 PPG
Couturier 13g 14a, 27p in 77 games played = .169 GPG, .351 PPG

Powerplay time per game: Gally: 1 min, 6 seconds Couturier: 26 seconds

Galchenyuk's most common linemates: Lars Eller, Brandon Prust
Couturier's most common linemates: Max Talbot, Zac Rinaldo

Corsi Rel QoC:
Couturier: +0.760 (4th among forwards on Flyers)
Galchenyuk: +0.084 (8th among forwards on MTL)

Corsi Rel QoT:
Couturier: -1.741 (11th among forwards on Flyers)
Galchenyuk: -1.038 (7th among forwards on MTL)

Zone Starts:
Couturier: 40.3% (dead last among forwards on Flyers)
Galchenyuk:55.1% (5th among forwards on MTL)

Pretty sure that didn't exactly turn out the way you had hoped. Despite having significant less offensive opportunities than the golden boy Galchenyuk, Couturier more than holds his own, scoring significantly more goals. And despite having way less offensive zone starts, facing way harder competition, playing with worse teammates, playing less powerplay time, etc a comparison of their rookie years per 82 games would have Couturier scoring ~5 more goals and only ~9 less points.

If Couturier scores within 9 points of Galchenyuk throughout their respective careers, there's no question whatsoever that Couturier will be the more valuable player.
____________________________

And I'm not saying Couturier and Galchenyuk are of equal value, I'm just saying you picked a terrible way to try to make your point by daring Flyers fans to compare Couturier's rookie year to Gally's.
buddy i don't know where you looked but Cooter was playing with Read and Talbot
more often then anything else. and yea he did play with Rinaldo but he also played
with Voracek sometimes and Simmonds. Go look at his highlights from last year,
and stop trying to make up ****.
Btw Matt read had 24 goals 47pts last year. Talbot 19goals and 34points.
How is Prust better then either one? and how is Eller better for points then Read?
And whats the reason that Chucky is doing better than Cooter still this year?
and how is Chucky facing less harder competition then Cooter when he's playing
on the 3rd line as a defensive role?
buddy you have no idea what your talking about, so just please get off this thread
and don't ever comment anymore.

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Old
04-06-2013, 10:08 AM
  #97
JustAHabFan
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
He's a prospect still. He's played 2 NHL games. Why would Philly trade one of their star centers for a D prospect (abit a very good one) who hasn't even established that he can play in the NHL.
Since when Coots is a star center. He has not done anything yet to be called a "star". Talking about overating a player.

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04-06-2013, 10:23 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by greenstickytoes View Post
buddy i don't know where you looked but Cooter was playing with Read and Talbot
more often then anything else. and yea he did play with Rinaldo but he also played
with Voracek sometimes and Simmonds. Go look at his highlights from last year,
and stop trying to make up ****.
Btw Matt read had 24 goals 47pts last year. Talbot 19goals and 34points.
How is Prust better then either one? and how is Eller better for points then Read?
And whats the reason that Chucky is doing better than Cooter still this year?
and how is Chucky facing less harder competition then Cooter when he's playing
on the 3rd line as a defensive role?

buddy you have no idea what your talking about, so just please get off this thread
and don't ever comment anymore.
C'mon man, I'm a Habs fan and it's pretty clear that Galchenyuk gets sheltered minutes. Not that he's playing with all-star linemates or anything, but lets not pretend he's getting a lot of tough minutes.

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04-06-2013, 10:29 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by lamp9post View Post
C'mon man, I'm a Habs fan and it's pretty clear that Galchenyuk gets sheltered minutes. Not that he's playing with all-star linemates or anything, but lets not pretend he's getting a lot of tough minutes.
Yes. MB did give Galchenyuk sheltered minutes and he got a good reason for doing so.

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04-06-2013, 12:13 PM
  #100
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I just do not understand the need to trash people's players. Couturier is a very good player who still has not touched his potential. Beaulieu is a very good prospect who hasn't touched his potential. Montreal does not NEED Couturier as much as some fans seem to think we do. Eller and Plekanec are our versions of Couturier. Plekanec is beter than Couturier, Eller looks to be at least as good, if not better, and you do not need 3 shut down centers on a team. We do not need to replace DD with Couturier since they play different roles. DD is an offensive play making center. Since we have 2 two-way defensive centers in Eller and Plekanec, we do not need to replace an offensive play making center with another defensive two way center just because of size.

Like I said earlier, whatever perceived or actual difference between Couturier and Eller exists, it is not worth Beaulieu, Leblanc and either a 2nd or a 1st in a deep draft.

We do not need to devalue Flyers' players, and I definitely wish they would leave our guys alone as well. The FACTS are all that we need, and the FACT remains that Couturier would be a very expensive luxury, whereas Beaulieu (and 100% Tinordi!!! How people are trashing him is beyond me!) represents an actual need.

There is no deal to be made, and no insults necessary.

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