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Old
04-05-2013, 08:22 PM
  #1
FanboySlayer*
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Your Fearless Leader Said It ....... Now Let's Do It

I'm blown away by how many people on this forum support Darcy Regier, it would seem the owner of the franchise drinks from the same tub of Koolaid so there's a good possibility Regier remains the man in charge of rebuilding this wreck.

Regier in his press conference the other day addressed what this franchise doesn't have and what it needs, franchise players. He alluded to Chicago with Kane and Towes, picked 1st and 3rd overall respectively. That is where the vast majority of the elite franchise players are - NOT the top 5, the top 3. A look at past drafts confirms it.

No matter where we finish, no matter if the draft lottery pushes us back a position - the Buffalo Sabres MUST select in the top 3 and walk away with one of Seth Jones, Nathan MacKinnon, or Jonathan Drouin. I don't care what any scout or fan says about Barkov and Nichushkin, they aren't acceptable at this point, never mind they're both Euros.

So if we end up in the 4th-8th position we must deal into a top 3 position. We have the picks now and prospects to engineer a move up. I would trade almost anything, both first rounders and a second rounder, if that isn't enough, more.

Once you get past #5 in the draft, you're just as likely to get a good player with the 20th pick as you are with the 6th.

Regier said it, now i hope he backs his words up and this summer Sabres fans have one of Jones, MacKinnon and Drouin to look forward to next September.

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04-05-2013, 08:33 PM
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TakeThatTootoo
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So, what do you suggest on getting us to the Top 3 if we end up say, the 8th pick?

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Old
04-05-2013, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeThatTootoo View Post
So, what do you suggest on getting us to the Top 3 if we end up say, the 8th pick?
I say we have to, if we fall all the way to 8th it just means we have to give up more.

The problem is all teams now realize the same thing, so to move from #8 to #1-3 will cost a lot but franchise players are worth it.

I've read and heard all the fuss about Grigorenko, people still have great hopes for him after seeing him skate for us - he's a 12th overall pick, not by accident. He may turn out to be something, he may not. Even #1-3 picks often turn out to be just adequate. But the Crosbys, Malkins, Stamkos', and going back a lifetime ago, the Perraults come from the top 3.

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04-05-2013, 08:45 PM
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Myllz
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You're wrong.

That's all.

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Old
04-05-2013, 08:45 PM
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wnysupport
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You understand you're not getting into the Top 3, unless you finish there. No team is giving those picks up....

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04-05-2013, 08:47 PM
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LGBuffalo
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While I appreciate your enthusiasm for wanting a top 3 pick, I don't think it's as absolute as you make it out to be. Fats yuk wasn't a top 3 pick and I think he falls into a franchise player category. I understand the chances are better up top, but to do what you want, they would have to give up so much that it would actually push the rebuild back farther. When you have a family to feed, you don't empty out the cabinets just so you can buy a gallon of ice cream, you know? Having said all of that, I'd love a top 3 in this draft!

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04-05-2013, 08:48 PM
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ZZamboni
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Grigorenko slipped in the draft because he had mono, was run down, and didn't perform up to his normal pace because of it. But if you want to believe some lie, you go right ahead. If Mono didn't happen we would not have him. Fact. But you keep believing some lie.

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04-05-2013, 08:54 PM
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LGBuffalo
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The problem is your logic is predicated on things that just aren't true. To insinuate that Euros can't be franchise players is absurd. The draft this year is loaded enough that there are potential franchise players deeper than in general years.

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04-05-2013, 08:54 PM
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This may be an issue in a different year, but if we pick 5th this year, we're still getting a hell of a player. This year's draft is deep.

In no particular order:

Jones
Mackinnon
Drouin
Barkov
Nichushkin
Monahan
Lindholm
Nurse
Ristolainen
Shinkaruk
Pulock
Zadorov

I doubt we'll fall into the range where we pick in the lower tier of that list, but 5-7 still includes fantastic players that could very well go higher in different draft years, if that's what you're looking for

Top 3 draft position doesn't mean everything, just ask Cam Barker


Last edited by Coconut Head: 04-05-2013 at 10:35 PM.
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Old
04-05-2013, 08:54 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Grigorenko slipped in the draft because he had mono, was run down, and didn't perform up to his normal pace because of it. But if you want to believe some lie, you go right ahead. If Mono didn't happen we would not have him. Fact. But you keep believing some lie.
and 8 other teams weren't smart enough to consider Grigorenko's mono and 'steal' him before the Sabres.

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04-05-2013, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanboySlayer View Post
and 8 other teams weren't smart enough to consider Grigorenko's mono and 'steal' him before the Sabres.
Sure, and the fact that teams draft on a needs basis and there were a ton of teams that didn't have a need at center and/or needed a defenseman more.

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04-05-2013, 08:59 PM
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LGBuffalo
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Originally Posted by captaincrunch89 View Post
Sure, and the fact that teams draft on a needs basis and there were a ton of teams that didn't have a need at center and/or needed a defenseman more.
Great point. There really was a run on defensemen which helped him fall as well. Forsberg was in a similar boat. I understand that desire to pick in the top 3, but there's no reason to empty the potential cupboard for one guy who may or may not solve problems moving forward.

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04-05-2013, 09:01 PM
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ZZamboni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincrunch89 View Post
Sure, and the fact that teams draft on a needs basis and there were a ton of teams that didn't have a need at center and/or needed a defenseman more.
Agree.

Now that's just crazy talk!


Logic escapes some.

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04-05-2013, 09:24 PM
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Yeah, Euros and not top 3 picks suck!





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Old
04-05-2013, 09:28 PM
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WNY to NoVA
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i heard ryan miller was going to be a top 3 pick. but the sabres just got lucky and had to settle for his middle of the road play a few rounds later, other teams clearly saw he was going to be a "whatever" goalie and only the sabres were dumb enough to waste a pick

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Old
04-05-2013, 09:46 PM
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ZZamboni
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Colorado couldn't trade up and wasted a pick on this bum






Same with New Jersey






Scrubs ....

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Old
04-06-2013, 03:24 AM
  #17
jBuds
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Regier has never built a contender. He got lucky with rule changes, he had no hand in selecting pieces that were valuable to success at one point (Vanek, Miller, Tallinder, Roy, Pominville etc.), and he didn't make trades to boost that contending roster (Drury, Briere, Lydman). He didn't trade for a guy like Zubrus at the deadline that year... Zubrus would've been valuable to the team.

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Old
04-06-2013, 03:54 AM
  #18
Imlach a cup
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Regier has never built a contender. He got lucky with rule changes, he had no hand in selecting pieces that were valuable to success at one point (Vanek, Miller, Tallinder, Roy, Pominville etc.), and he didn't make trades to boost that contending roster (Drury, Briere, Lydman). He didn't trade for a guy like Zubrus at the deadline that year... Zubrus would've been valuable to the team.
ya he deserves 0 credit for building that roster, it was all rule changes, o btw the committee that created the initial proposal those rules were based on was comprised of NHL GMs, of which only Darcy was smart enough to have a team ready to win under those conditions

Erm... halfway through my sarcasm detector started beeping loudly but I'm gonna leave it anyway for people other than you because it's not the first time I've heard that point made and they actually believed it

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04-06-2013, 04:18 AM
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Beside the mono....

the other thing I heard about Grigorenko going into the draft was that they thought he was more likely to go to the KHL. Yakupov didnt give that impression.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...s-draft-stock/

Quote:

Slava Malamud presented a round of interesting KHL-related bits about how the league will try to lure “returning Russian NHL players,” yet he might not stop there. Malamud reports that CSKA might make a “big play” to sign Grigorenko, which makes sense since they selected him with the eighth pick of the KHL’s junior 2011 draft.

Malamud believes that this development could “plunge his draft stock” and with good reason. The NHL’s rookie minimum contract has been great for teams to limit costs and risks, but it opens up the chance for clubs like CSKA to pay high-profile prospects (particularly Russian ones) more than they’d make on entry-level deals. While Alex Radulov‘s situation was unusual for loophole reasons, it’s a cautionary tale for teams pondering the already-risky proposition of investing millions in a player who won’t turn 18 until May 16.
and....

http://www.hockeywilderness.com/2012...nko-what-is-it


Quote:
After doing my mock draft, there was a lot of talk about my decision to have Mikhail Grigorenko dropping to 11th to the Washington Capitals. At the beginning of the year, Grigorenko had a chance of contending for the #1 spot in the draft, has had a good season, yet finds himself falling in almost everyone's list.

Why is that?

Something we call the Russian factor. Alexander Radulov is the most notable name in recent history because he left just when he started to breakout in Nashville. Since then, drafting Russians in the draft is a mix of superstition and research. Other notable Russians that have left for Russia include Nikita Filatov and Nikolai Zherdev.

Players like Alexei Cherepanov (RIP), Vladimir Tarasenko and Evgeny Kuznetsov, all fell down the draft because of the Russian factor.

But what is it? And how does it apply to Mikhail Grigorenko? Here, we explore that.

To me, the Russian factor isn't about the player's commitment to play North American hockey, and it isn't about their character as a person. These things contribute to the decision of not drafting this player so high, but intangibles and the Russian factor aren't dependent on each other.

In my opinion, its all about business. This isn't about a player not panning out, or becoming a bust or whatever your excuse might be. It's all about the clarity of the future.

The Russian factor is the seemingly non-existent (maybe not seemingly, its just not there) transfer agreement between the NHL and the KHL.

A team in the KHL (it seems to be the CSKA at the moment) also owns Grigorenko's rights currently. That means, they have every right to talk to him, negotiate with him, and sweet talk him into going back to Russia. There is nothing the <club> can do about it.


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04-06-2013, 04:24 AM
  #20
Djp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanboySlayer View Post
and 8 other teams weren't smart enough to consider Grigorenko's mono and 'steal' him before the Sabres.

see what I posted above---the reason he fell was because of fear that he would sign with the KHL for alot more money than a strict NHL entry level contract.

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04-06-2013, 05:38 AM
  #21
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You're wrong and you're act is pretty damn boring.

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04-06-2013, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
see what I posted above---the reason he fell was because of fear that he would sign with the KHL for alot more money than a strict NHL entry level contract.

“If I wanted to go in the KHL, why would I come here?” he asked. “It would have been easier to stay in Russia. For my mom, it was really hard. For me it was really hard too, but I had teammates and hockey. When I went to some road trips, she was alone. I worked for this all my life."

“Hopefully someone will give me a chance to play in the NHL. That’s all I want.”

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04-06-2013, 07:30 AM
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krt88
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The numbers don't lie, if you look at the current top 20 in NHL scoring drafting high certainly does seem to have it's rewards: 12 of the top 20 scorers are top 10 picks, 10 of the 20 are top 5 picks and 9 of the top 20 are top 3 picks.

1 Sidney Crosby PIT drafted 1st overall 2005
2 Steven Stamkos TBL drafted 1st overall 2008
3 Chris Kunitz PIT undrafted
4 Martin St Louis TBL undrafted
5 Patrick Kane CHI drafted 1st overall 2007
6 Ryan Getzlaf ANA drafted 19th overall 2003
7 Taylor Hall EDM L drafted 1st overall 2010
8 Eric Staal CAR C drafted 2nd overall 2003
9 John Tavares NYI drafted 1st overall 2009
10 Nazem Kadri TOR drafted 7th overall 2009
11 Jonathan Toews CHI drated 3rd overall 2006
12 Jakub Voracek PHI drafted 7th overall 2007
13 Pavel Datsyuk DET drafted 171st overall 1998
14 Alex Ovechkin WSH drafted 1st overall
15 PA Parenteau COL drafted 261st overall 2001
16 Matt Moulson NYI drafted 263rd overall 2001
17 Claude Giroux PHI drafted 22nd overall 2003
18 Matt Duchene COL drafted 3rd overall 2009
19 Alexander Semin CAR drafted 13th overall 2002
20 Nicklas Backstrom WSH drafted 4th overall 2006

If you expand out to the top 30, you add in 5 more top 5 picks:
Vanek, Kessel, Thornton, H. Sedein, Ladd
and
2 6th overall picks:
Gagner and Koivu

That's 18 of the top 30 scorers drafted in the top 10

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04-06-2013, 07:38 AM
  #24
krt88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNY to NoVA View Post
i heard ryan miller was going to be a top 3 pick. but the sabres just got lucky and had to settle for his middle of the road play a few rounds later, other teams clearly saw he was going to be a "whatever" goalie and only the sabres were dumb enough to waste a pick
What the heck does this mean? Goalies are the hardest to project because most don't mature until they are past 25. You draft them at 18/19. Miller was a drafted on hope and he went to MSU and dominated. How many top 10 goalies have been great?

Luongo, Fluery, Barrasso, Fuhr

that's all I can find dating back to 1980!

you draft goalies in round 3, 4, 5 every other year and hope you hit a home run once a decade.

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04-06-2013, 07:45 AM
  #25
HiddenInLight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krt88 View Post
The numbers don't lie, if you look at the current top 20 in NHL scoring drafting high certainly does seem to have it's rewards: 12 of the top 20 scorers are top 10 picks, 10 of the 20 are top 5 picks and 9 of the top 20 are top 3 picks.

1 Sidney Crosby PIT drafted 1st overall 2005
2 Steven Stamkos TBL drafted 1st overall 2008
3 Chris Kunitz PIT undrafted
4 Martin St Louis TBL undrafted
5 Patrick Kane CHI drafted 1st overall 2007
6 Ryan Getzlaf ANA drafted 19th overall 2003
7 Taylor Hall EDM L drafted 1st overall 2010
8 Eric Staal CAR C drafted 2nd overall 2003
9 John Tavares NYI drafted 1st overall 2009
10 Nazem Kadri TOR drafted 7th overall 2009
11 Jonathan Toews CHI drated 3rd overall 2006
12 Jakub Voracek PHI drafted 7th overall 2007
13 Pavel Datsyuk DET drafted 171st overall 1998
14 Alex Ovechkin WSH drafted 1st overall
15 PA Parenteau COL drafted 261st overall 2001
16 Matt Moulson NYI drafted 263rd overall 2001
17 Claude Giroux PHI drafted 22nd overall 2003
18 Matt Duchene COL drafted 3rd overall 2009
19 Alexander Semin CAR drafted 13th overall 2002
20 Nicklas Backstrom WSH drafted 4th overall 2006

If you expand out to the top 30, you add in 5 more top 5 picks:
Vanek, Kessel, Thornton, H. Sedein, Ladd
and
2 6th overall picks:
Gagner and Koivu

That's 18 of the top 30 scorers drafted in the top 10
....meaning you may be fine with a top ten pick (or a few) as you would be with a top 3.

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