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Major AHL Shakeup? Abbotsford to NY, Peoria to Abbotsford, STL affiliates w/ Chicago?

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Old
04-03-2013, 11:25 PM
  #76
Hugh Mann*
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Originally Posted by PCSPounder View Post
If they could have grabbed Victoria before the WHL did, Orcas would be more applicable.

Langley's building is nothing to sneeze at.

Given the owner of the Portland Winterhawks discussed the possibility of bringing in AHL to ACCOMPANY the Winterhawks before sanctions threw Memorial Coliseum renovation plans for a loop, I wouldn't be surprised if an AHL team to replace the Winterhawks is a possibility.
I am strongly doubtful the AHL would displace any CHL team, Portland Winterhawks included given how long they've been around. I was under the impression that the NHL/AHL had an unofficial agreement with the CHL not to try to displace the CHL from any of its markets, given that the CHL is the source for a vast portion of the AHL/NHL's players.

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04-04-2013, 07:45 AM
  #77
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The AHL has said they will not invade another league's market....

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04-04-2013, 07:59 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Hugh Mann View Post
I am strongly doubtful the AHL would displace any CHL team, Portland Winterhawks included given how long they've been around. I was under the impression that the NHL/AHL had an unofficial agreement with the CHL not to try to displace the CHL from any of its markets, given that the CHL is the source for a vast portion of the AHL/NHL's players.
Only thing about it is Bill Gallacher actually posed the idea of AHL cohabitation with the Winterhawks. Right now, not many people at the league are in love with the Winterhawks, and the WHL has a pretty serious small market vs large market issue to begin with.

Add Memorial Coliseum into the mix. There's an agreement for $30 million in renovations. The city (and behind the scenes, very likely Gallacher himself) has postponed the final financing and the work because of concerns the team may not be viable for several years because of the sanctions handed down in November. Before Gallacher owned the team, they were close to skipping town, albeit because the Coliseum was planned to be bulldozed, but the crowd numbers were worthy of concern. So I'm not sure the usual unwritten rules apply in this situation.

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04-04-2013, 09:22 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by wildcat48 View Post
The AHL has said they will not invade another league's market....
Really?

You could argue that if Calgary didn't move it's franchise to Abbotsford, Chilliwack would still have it's WHL team. The Cities are 20 km apart. Now I think it could have worked, but ownership of the Chilliwack team (who was sketchy at best) said no, and shipped the team to Victoria.

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04-04-2013, 01:10 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
wow.

That's a 2 hr flight to Abbotsford and probably just as far away -if not more - from the other AHL cities as Abbotsford. That looks like crazy travel for an AHL team.
Just a geographic clarification.

No - that's not "just as far away" as the other AHL cities. I don't think you fully understand the degree of isolation that Abbotsford is from the rest of the league. The closest other AHL team to Abbotsford is...

OKLAHOMA CITY.

I'm not kidding. Their closest "rival" is, yes, more than two THOUSAND miles away.

Fort McMurray is a bike ride away in comparison.

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04-04-2013, 01:59 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
Really?

You could argue that if Calgary didn't move it's franchise to Abbotsford, Chilliwack would still have it's WHL team. The Cities are 20 km apart. Now I think it could have worked, but ownership of the Chilliwack team (who was sketchy at best) said no, and shipped the team to Victoria.
Yeah... I'd have to find it from one of the AHL's State of the League pressers, but I remember Dave Andrews making that comment roughly about the time when there was talk of a team going into Windsor.

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04-04-2013, 10:26 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by HansH View Post
Just a geographic clarification.

No - that's not "just as far away" as the other AHL cities. I don't think you fully understand the degree of isolation that Abbotsford is from the rest of the league. The closest other AHL team to Abbotsford is...

OKLAHOMA CITY.

I'm not kidding. Their closest "rival" is, yes, more than two THOUSAND miles away.

Fort McMurray is a bike ride away in comparison.
I think you need to look at a map and should learn how to plan a bike ride.

The closest AHL city to Fort McMurray is actually 1772 miles away in Milwaukee Wi - which would be negligible for flight compared to Abbotsford. Considering that fort McMurray is 4 hours North of Edmonton and has a ridiculously long and cold winter season it's not a stretch to imagine that flights could be delayed from time to time during an AHL season as well. FYI Fort McMurray is 1984 miles from Oklahoma city - a difference of 110 miles compared to Abbotsford.

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04-05-2013, 01:46 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I think you need to look at a map and should learn how to plan a bike ride.

The closest AHL city to Fort McMurray is actually 1772 miles away in Milwaukee Wi - which would be negligible for flight compared to Abbotsford. Considering that fort McMurray is 4 hours North of Edmonton and has a ridiculously long and cold winter season it's not a stretch to imagine that flights could be delayed from time to time during an AHL season as well. FYI Fort McMurray is 1984 miles from Oklahoma city - a difference of 110 miles compared to Abbotsford.
I may have misinterpreted your meaning. I thought you meant that the distance from Abbotsford to Fort McMurray was just as far as the distance from Abbotsford to the rest of the AHL, and that was what I was taking issue with.

Fort McMurray is less than half the distance from Abbotsford than OKC is from Abbotsford. Yes, the "bike ride" was hyperbole, and I'll take the hit for that one, but it's still significantly closer to Abbotsford than any other current AHL market is, and would improve the Abbotsford travel situation, albeit only marginally. That was the point I was intending to make. My apologies if I misunderstood your intended communication.

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04-05-2013, 01:51 PM
  #84
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And keeping the original story up to date:
http://www.pjstar.com/rivermen/x1037...ncouver-unsure

Summary:
ECHL interested in Peoria but it wouldn't be until at least 2014-15.
Canucks have NOT made final determination of where their newly-purchased AHL franchise will play in 2013-14.
Peoria (the arena) would seemingly be interested in convincing the Canucks to keep their AHL franchise in Peoria for at least one season while the Canucks look for a more permanent home and while the ECHL lines up an immediate replacement after the AHL franchise leaves.
Calgary has denied that they are moving the Heat.
Minor speculation that the Canucks might move the Rivermen "somewhere close" to the Heat.

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04-05-2013, 01:58 PM
  #85
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Putting Calgary's farm team in Abbotsford is one of the stupidest sports-business decisions I've ever witnessed.

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04-05-2013, 02:15 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by mavstar View Post
Putting Calgary's farm team in Abbotsford is one of the stupidest sports-business decisions I've ever witnessed.
Overall I agree but both parties may claim otherwise.

Calgary's minor league team no longer loses boat loads of money because Abbotsford is overwriting the losses. If they were only concerned about breaking even that's a plus. The city of Abbotsford my also claim to be happy because their arena has events and they can spin economic activity from this.

Otherwise I think it's a total bust. The players and coaches have complained about not getting enough practice time and injuries building up because of the extra travel. The Heat have not exactly been producing talent for the NHL club either.

My hope is that the team stays in Peoria or somewhere in the central timezone until the AHL/NHL sets up a division with at least 3 teams in the Pacific time zone.

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04-05-2013, 02:26 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by mavstar View Post
Putting Calgary's farm team in Abbotsford is one of the stupidest sports-business decisions I've ever witnessed.
What other locations were there though?

If they wanted the team nearby what other towns and/or cities could they have put them. If they weren't that bothered about where they go then yeah, you could say it's stupid.

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04-05-2013, 02:46 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
What other locations were there though?

If they wanted the team nearby what other towns and/or cities could they have put them. If they weren't that bothered about where they go then yeah, you could say it's stupid.
*tongue in cheek*

I'm sure the Saddledome could support three hockey teams -- NHL, AHL, and WHL -- the Flames, Heat, and Hitmen would all certainly flourish, right? *chuckles*

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04-05-2013, 07:44 PM
  #89
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So the Peoria Rivermen might end up in Abbotsford, BC? If this ever gets into megathread territory, can we have...

Peoria LXXIV: B C'ing You


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04-06-2013, 10:25 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
What other locations were there though?

If they wanted the team nearby what other towns and/or cities could they have put them. If they weren't that bothered about where they go then yeah, you could say it's stupid.
How about Red Deer? or Lethbridge, or Medicine Hat??


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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
So the Peoria Rivermen might end up in Abbotsford, BC? If this ever gets into megathread territory, can we have...

Peoria LXXIV: B C'ing You

Not enough interest like Phoenix.....

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04-06-2013, 10:42 AM
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as mentioned above, gwinnett - currently houses an ECHL team that averages 5400 a game (would be middle of the pack for AHL), 11000 capacity.

ideally they would affiliate with nashville (currently in Milwaukee, which wont move) or one of the florida teams (syracuse, san antonio, both also healthy)
Thanks for giving my favorite team the shaft!

You are correct, after 15 years, Nashville probably isn't in a rush to dump Milwaukee.
The Admirals average 5544 in a 17,000 seat arena.

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04-06-2013, 10:59 AM
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So if Calgary stays put in leaving the Heat in Abbotsford. I wonder what type of backlash there will be from the fans, the media, and the government.

There is likely a very small minority of Heat STH who wouldn't renew if the Canucks affiliated with the new Abbotsford team. The Government (local) is still having to cover their losses, something that appears would have been minimized based on Aquinili's offer. Casual fans and potential season ticket holders will be POed that the Heat are still there, because of Calgary's stubborness, leading to decreased revenue from the team, meaning additional taxpayer dollars to cover the team.

The 2013-2014 Abbotsford Heat franchise may be a complete disaster. Canuck fans especially may say screw it and give up their already fickle support for the team.


Last edited by go_leafs_go02: 04-06-2013 at 03:34 PM.
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04-06-2013, 12:31 PM
  #93
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What's the reason the Wolves and Blackhawks aren't affiliated.
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
The ownership group the own the Wolves and the Wirtz family are not on good terms. The Wolves were founded by a group of hockey fans (with money) who were fed up with wirtz and decided to Chicago hockey fans another option away from the hawks
Since death of Bill Wirtz the Wolves/Hawks rivalry off ice has died out and the Wolves mean very little to Hawks now as a threat. Rocky simply doesn't waste his time with such petty things

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why don't the Hawks take the Chicago Wolves?
Blues should have Springfield..weird that Edmonton has them
The reason a partnership now would never work is because the Wolves have a history of screwing player development up because there #1 goal is to compete for AHL title not develop future NHL talent

Atlanta always had issues with Wolves screwing with there prospects by playing scrub career minor leaguers


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04-06-2013, 12:34 PM
  #94
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Thanks for giving my favorite team the shaft!

You are correct, after 15 years, Nashville probably isn't in a rush to dump Milwaukee.
The Admirals average 5544 in a 17,000 seat arena.
how am i giving them the shaft?

all i'm saying is that an AHL team located in Atlanta has obvious affiliation partners in either nashville or the florida teams due to geography, and i did affirm that Milwaukee isnt going anywhere, they're a great AHL market.

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04-06-2013, 03:47 PM
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Of course Milwaukee wouldn't go anywhere. The Predators don't own the franchise rights. They're owned by a local ownership group in Milwaukee that includes Brewers owner Mark Attanasio.

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04-06-2013, 03:59 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HansH View Post
And keeping the original story up to date:
http://www.pjstar.com/rivermen/x1037...ncouver-unsure

Summary:
ECHL interested in Peoria but it wouldn't be until at least 2014-15.
Canucks have NOT made final determination of where their newly-purchased AHL franchise will play in 2013-14.
Peoria (the arena) would seemingly be interested in convincing the Canucks to keep their AHL franchise in Peoria for at least one season while the Canucks look for a more permanent home and while the ECHL lines up an immediate replacement after the AHL franchise leaves.
Calgary has denied that they are moving the Heat.
Minor speculation that the Canucks might move the Rivermen "somewhere close" to the Heat.
Or VAN could temporarilly move the Rivermen to PHX or SAC pending current tenants vacating. And if the AHL permits, move em to Rogers Arena to really stick it to CGY.

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04-06-2013, 04:08 PM
  #97
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Or VAN could temporarilly move the Rivermen to PHX or SAC pending current tenants vacating. And if the AHL permits, move em to Rogers Arena to really stick it to CGY.
I forget, is there even an ice plant in the Sacramento arena? Something makes me want to think I remember there isn't, but I'm not sure. And if the Suns wanted to given them a lease, the Canucks could even put their AHL team into Phoenix whether there's a team in Glendale next year or not, if we just want to spin fanciful "possibilities".

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04-06-2013, 04:12 PM
  #98
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wow.

That's a 2 hr flight to Abbotsford and probably just as far away -if not more - from the other AHL cities as Abbotsford. That looks like crazy travel for an AHL team.
Every team in Fort McMurray in one way or another has to deal with some pretty crazy travel. I don't know if it's still in the go here for the baseball team, because of the Edmonton team folding last year. But we were supposed to be getting a team this year and there was a team in Hawaii in our division.

The teams here get sponsored by companies that have stupid amounts of money, the travel wouldn't really be an issue for them I don't think. Although I am hopeful for an AHL team up here...I'd probably see it more likely that we get an ECHL team. Unless of course the AHL decides to make a Northwestern division with some teams in Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, Alberta, Saskatchewan and BC.

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04-06-2013, 05:17 PM
  #99
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Every team in Fort McMurray in one way or another has to deal with some pretty crazy travel. I don't know if it's still in the go here for the baseball team, because of the Edmonton team folding last year. But we were supposed to be getting a team this year and there was a team in Hawaii in our division.

The teams here get sponsored by companies that have stupid amounts of money, the travel wouldn't really be an issue for them I don't think. Although I am hopeful for an AHL team up here...I'd probably see it more likely that we get an ECHL team. Unless of course the AHL decides to make a Northwestern division with some teams in Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, Alberta, Saskatchewan and BC.
Aren't most if not all of those markets controlled by the WHL and ECHL?

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04-06-2013, 06:10 PM
  #100
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Aren't most if not all of those markets controlled by the WHL and ECHL?
Some yes, but there are untapped markets. Also some of the WHL franchises are in cities that are better suited to a pro team over a junior team. Saskatoon for instance. Hell I'd even say one of Medicine Hat or Lethbridge would be better off with an AHL team.

I really think to build fanbases loyal to their teams the AHL should concentrate on localizing the teams a little closer to their home franchises. Abbotsford makes sense for Vancouver, Fort McMurray would make sense for Edmonton. A place like OKC makes sense for Colorado or St. Louis more than it does for Edmonton.

As for the ECHL...I think they should be more reactive to the AHL then the AHL being reactive of them.

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