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Jake Gardiner's Future

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04-06-2013, 10:36 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Symbol View Post

I can really see our top 4 soon being

Rielly-Phaneuf
Finn- Percy

No room for Gardiner really. If we trade him for Mona, our top 6 centres will be set for the next decade
Wow, that was a funny one!

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04-06-2013, 10:37 AM
  #127
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Wonder who comes out, are we going with 7 D tonight, because have to think new guy plays?
ATM? Likely kostka and o'byrne sitting according to Jonas.

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04-06-2013, 10:37 AM
  #128
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I'd definitely trade Gardiner at the draft for Monahan, someone who's going to be better than even Couturier

Carlyle's system isn't the run and gun that Jake excelled in, IMO it's time to trade him while his value is still relatively high.

I see Finn as a similar player to Gardiner, except with better defense. And then there's Percy with his high hockey IQ.

I can really see our top 4 soon being

Rielly-Phaneuf
Finn- Percy

No room for Gardiner really. If we trade him for Mona, our top 6 centres will be set for the next decade
Never hurts dealing from a position of strength.

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04-06-2013, 10:39 AM
  #129
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I'd definitely trade Gardiner at the draft for Monahan, someone who's going to be better than even Couturier

Carlyle's system isn't the run and gun that Jake excelled in, IMO it's time to trade him while his value is still relatively high.

I see Finn as a similar player to Gardiner, except with better defense. And then there's Percy with his high hockey IQ.

I can really see our top 4 soon being

Rielly-Phaneuf
Finn- Percy

No room for Gardiner really. If we trade him for Mona, our top 6 centres will be set for the next decade
I see Franson in that top 4 with Percy a reliable 5/6 guy.With Fraser a rugged number 6 lock in Carlye's system.

Reilly Phaneuff
Finn Franson
Percy Fraser


I dont want to trade Gardiner but it does beg the question,how else do we a get a star center?


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04-06-2013, 10:40 AM
  #130
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ATM? Likely kostka and o'byrne sitting according to Jonas.
One thing I have learned from RC, he is not afraid to do the not obvious move. He doesn't care about being second guessed.

RC will play the players he thinks gives us a best chance to win. I expect Orr and or Mclaren to play. Team will have at least one enforcer in the line up. Probably Orr.

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04-06-2013, 10:43 AM
  #131
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ATM? Likely kostka and o'byrne sitting according to Jonas.
Kind of shocked O'Byrne isn't in there to be honest, but this is a good call for Jake's confidence. Take the bull kid!

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04-06-2013, 10:46 AM
  #132
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Are you kidding me? Monahan is going to be a very good NHL hockey player, for a player that has 75 games in the NHL last season, under the mirage of the Ron and Gun system.?
Mirage? Did he not fool Boston's PK into thinking that he was shooting the puck and then passed to Lupul for an empty net?

That was the FIRST time in this season that Patrice Bergeron was on the ice for a PP goal against.

Gardiner has a ton of skills, he just needs to relax and play his game.

It's hard to do that when one mistake means that you're back in the press box.

How many D can make that play in this league? Not very many IMO.

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04-06-2013, 10:46 AM
  #133
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I see Percy being with Dion one day. Very reliable defender with great vision and ability to read the play. A Carl Gunnarson but better.

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04-06-2013, 10:47 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
If all Nonnis wanted was Gagne,Gardiner would be an Oiler long ago! No one is saying to throw Gardiner away, simply that Gardiner and Carlyle may not see eye to eye.If Gardiner isn't going to get top 4 minutes and then Reilly steals his thunder....

Because he can play now,some team in the top 5 in the draft may call Nonnis.Would you be listening if say Barkov was available?
Sam Gagner -2012-13 .. 37 games 14 goals 19 assists 33 points. Which is 25th overall in NHL scoring this season.

How would that compare to current Maple Leaf players?

A slick playmaking center is apparently what Nonis is seeking and Gagner has been available in the past as per rumours.

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04-06-2013, 10:48 AM
  #135
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Gardiner's played 7 games, and as much as we're in a playoff push we're also developing kids, or should be. Hence the two goalies, our leading scorer, etc. Why did we waste so much time playing two rookies in Holzer and Kostka who aren't performing either?
Exactly. Jake is always getting the short straw. 3 games, send down to AHL. Comes back, 3 games sent to Pressbox.

Then Kostka, 28 games and more to come
Holzer, 12 games +/- 12 and sent down.

WHYY!!!

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04-06-2013, 10:51 AM
  #136
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Mirage? Did he not fool Boston's PK into thinking that he was shooting the puck and then passed to Lupul for an empty net?

That was the FIRST time in this season that Patrice Bergeron was on the ice for a PP goal against.

Gardiner has a ton of skills, he just needs to relax and play his game.

It's hard to do that when one mistake means that you're back in the press box.

How many D can make that play in this league? Not very many IMO.
Skill has never been the weakness of Jake's game, this I will agree on, it's learning to play in a system most NHL teams play, Ron Wilson was not a good coach, there was virtually no accountability for defence, Jake thrived under this. Now we are seeing what the true constraints are for him now that he is expected to be just as good on the defensive side. Thus the 75 game sample last year is not proof to me, he can play in the NHL that has perpetrated the #freeJakeGardiner notion.

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04-06-2013, 10:51 AM
  #137
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We have a fair number of decent defense prospects, including two premiere left-handed puck-rushing/passing types in Gardiner and Rielly. Obviously the answer is to trade one of them before either has been firmly established in the NHL, right? I mean that was the kind of excellent logic that brought us the Rask trade.

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04-06-2013, 10:52 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by LeafsWantStanley View Post
Exactly. Jake is always getting the short straw. 3 games, send down to AHL. Comes back, 3 games sent to Pressbox.

Then Kostka, 28 games and more to come
Holzer, 12 games +/- 12 and sent down.

WHYY!!!
Playoffs is why !!!.

As gifted as Gardiner is offensively, he is a loose canon defensively, as he is constantly playing as a rover and an additional forward when out on the ice.. Which in a system that stresses structure and defensive positioning its a lightning rod for defensive breakdowns.

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04-06-2013, 10:52 AM
  #139
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Kinda hard to explain that to Kadri no?
Wow. If that's what you took out of my post I don't know what to tell you.

I've been Kadri's biggest fan since before we drafted him. Check the draft day posts of mine buddy.

I'm saying he'd be a great centerman for Kessel. That's all.

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04-06-2013, 10:53 AM
  #140
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The idea that Rielly and Gardiner cannot be in our top 6 D-men crop in the future is utter stupidity. Choose one or the other? Your smoking something really funny!!

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04-06-2013, 10:54 AM
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Playoffs is why !!!.
I can underestand RC doesnt want to take risks and whatever for the last few games but really, Holzer gave us a better chance of winning? no way

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04-06-2013, 10:55 AM
  #142
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Sam Gagner -2012-13 .. 37 games 14 goals 19 assists 33 points. Which is 25th overall in NHL scoring this season.

How would that compare to current Maple Leaf players?

A slick playmaking center is apparently what Nonis is seeking and Gagner has been available in the past as per rumours.
We already have a slick playmaking center and I don't think a player like that is best for Kessel to begin with. I thought they wanted a center with size, not a small playmaking one.

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04-06-2013, 10:55 AM
  #143
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I would look at trading Gardiner for a young RH d...

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04-06-2013, 10:56 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by LeafsWantStanley View Post
The idea that Rielly and Gardiner cannot be in our top 6 D-men crop in the future is utter stupidity. Choose one or the other? Your smoking something really funny!!
People have Fraser and Percy higher in their depth chart than Gardiner

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04-06-2013, 10:57 AM
  #145
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I can underestand RC doesnt want to take risks and whatever for the last few games but really, Holzer gave us a better chance of winning? no way
Holzer's game fits Carlyle system better, and Leafs had to see what he could do..

Carlyle benched JM Liles for over a month, because he to like Gardiner is not what he is looking for from his defensemen where defense is the #1 focus.

Gardiner excelled in Wilson's pond hockey system, but now must adapt to a new coach and new system and play a game more conducive to coaches preference to earn playing time.

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04-06-2013, 10:58 AM
  #146
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People have Fraser and Percy higher in their depth chart than Gardiner
Based on winning right now, Fraser is higher on the depth chart than Gardiner this season. The Franson?Fraser pairing has been one of the brightest spots for the team this season.

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04-06-2013, 11:01 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by LeafsWantStanley View Post
The idea that Rielly and Gardiner cannot be in our top 6 D-men crop in the future is utter stupidity. Choose one or the other? Your smoking something really funny!!
We have way too many left d and not enough right, and our coach is all about the L + R pairings, that's why Gardiner can't crack a spot imho...

Left / Right (no particular order or pairings)

Phaneuf / Kostka
Liles / Franson
Rielly / Holzer
Gunnarson / O'Byrne
Gardiner / ???
Fraser / ???
Finn / ???
Percy / ???

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04-06-2013, 11:03 AM
  #148
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People have Fraser and Percy higher in their depth chart than Gardiner
Mark Fraser's +14 and solid defensive play is the reason he is a regular in addition to the fighting and physicality he brings.

Fraser and Gardiner are not comparables in terms of style nor expected contribution.

"Defense wins championships" and Leafs attention to defense this year has them in a playoff spot. Fans are going to have to learn to accept that skating around and trying to score goals is only a part of the intent of a winning hockey team.

Gardiner this year has been very poor defensively and Leafs had hoped his AHL experience would have allowed him to improve that part of his game.

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04-06-2013, 11:04 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by LeafsWantStanley View Post
The idea that Rielly and Gardiner cannot be in our top 6 D-men crop in the future is utter stupidity. Choose one or the other?
It really is, but look at some of the detractors

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04-06-2013, 11:04 AM
  #150
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People have Fraser and Percy higher in their depth chart than Gardiner
Our coach has Fraser higher than Gardiner.

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