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13-14' Prospects Thread Version XVI: All Prospect Talk Here

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04-06-2013, 09:39 AM
  #76
ErnieLeafs
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Everybody stop with the GD Biggs/Lucic stuff. It's an absolute pipe dream that Biggs, who isn't near as tough, nor as offensively capable as Lucic, turns out anything like him.

It WAS a poor trade from a value standpoint. Was then, is now. Hopefully he develops to his max potential, and makes us forget about it.


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04-06-2013, 09:49 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by gmjohnny View Post
The Biggs trade at the 2011 draft has quietly gone down as one of the worst trades in Leaf history. They held 3 picks in the top 40, and traded two of them to move from 28 to 22, where they picked Biggs. They also held the 25th pick. You may remember that the 2011 draft had prospects from the 10th rated right up to 40 who were roughly the same. The Leafs may have gotten Biggs at 25 or maybe not. They certainly would have picked up Percy in the second round as he was rated as a mid second round prospect, though Burke fell in love. But look who they missed on with that extra pick. Brandon Saad is now a 1st line NHL'r, rated 22 on HF top prospects, Brett Ritchie who is bigger, faster, just a gritty (fought Biggs in the playoffs and got the better of him) and is a great scorer. John Gibson, Team USA gold winning goalie and stud goalie of the future and also in HF top 50. If I had to do it again, I would have drafted Biggs at 25 (if you believe he is better than Ritchie), Gibson at 28 and Saad at 37 (or wherever that 2nd round pick was in the 30's)
Burke could have picked all of the best prospects too if he had a crystal ball and could have seen two years into the future. Pretty easy to say we drafted the wrong players with retrospective analysis.

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04-06-2013, 10:04 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by The Mad Dalton View Post
Re the Biggs trade: I wouldn't disagree in that it was an expensive price to pay, but as the Behind The Draft episodes over the years have shown, BB was always consulting w/ Dave Morrison on these moves. Yeah, they were high on Biggs & rumblings were the Red Wings were going to take him if they didn't nip out in front of them so they made the move.

As fer worst trade in history, that's way premature, ok, there are examples of some players that could have been selected but the full story will not play out until at least a few yeasr have passed & we begin to see more of what Biggs really is.


He'll be a great heart & soul player for the Leafs & is only going to get better. He is the player they targeted when the prospect pool was devoid of any power forward prospects too. Now we have Ashton, Leivo & Biggs.
Agree, but I suspect you will have those posters that will say it was a bad trade, and then coma back here and post that they wanted Biggs all along this I am sure of.

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04-06-2013, 10:08 AM
  #79
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I watched Joshua Leivo last night in Kit/Lon playoff matchup, and I was pleased with his game. He was Kitchener's best fwd I thought, very strong on the puck, he's got some good moves to his game. I think he still needs to get more physical, he plays like this at times. But I can see him taking his game to an even higher level if he starts to use the body more. As I said previously, I think he is the sleeper player of the draft for us, I almost consider him to be the 3rd, 1st rounder drafted by us in the 11 draft.

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04-06-2013, 10:15 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
Burke could have picked all of the best prospects too if he had a crystal ball and could have seen two years into the future. Pretty easy to say we drafted the wrong players with retrospective analysis.
How is it even retrospect when they still haven't gotten out of junior? It's still very early in development.

Holy **** people!!!???

A prospect has a hat trick in one junior game and he is a god? Let them develop. I'm gonna take a guess that Burke and Morrison assume Biggs will be a big time 3rd line role player, with 40-50 pt top end potential. Most of his scoring will be of the power kind. Right in front of the net. Intimidation will give him some room, and hard work will get him, and his team success.

I think he's gonna be a fan favorite that can score 30 pts with regularity, and draw attention to himself and the checkers instead of focusing on Simmonds running Dion, and Chara smothering Kessel. WE NEED THIS GUY!!

He won't likely be a 30 goal scorer, or as terrifying as Lucic, but he will hit everything, and fight most non-goons.

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Old
04-06-2013, 10:22 AM
  #81
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Just stat checking our prospects and noticed Dominic Toninato has a team mate that lead the team in goals and is draft eligible this year.

Gabe Guertler is small but I wonder where he fits in this draft:

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisp...74&encode=TRUE

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04-06-2013, 11:03 AM
  #82
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Just stat checking our prospects and noticed Dominic Toninato has a team mate that lead the team in goals and is draft eligible this year.

Gabe Guertler is small but I wonder where he fits in this draft:

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisp...74&encode=TRUE
rather go for cammarata if we are going for a small guy.

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04-06-2013, 12:13 PM
  #83
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rather go for cammarata if we are going for a small guy.
Do all these kids go through the combine, with strength tests? He's a tiny fella, but I have a buddy who's was that small at ~16-18, and at 21, 165lbs, he benched 315 twice. Some people have enough strength to compensate for a lot of size loss. I doubt Antropov can do that. But Marty St Luois is very strong.

Either way, he's killing it. How common is that scoring? I don't follow USHL at all.

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04-06-2013, 01:39 PM
  #84
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Agree, but I suspect you will have those posters that will say it was a bad trade, and then coma back here and post that they wanted Biggs all along this I am sure of.
All anyone can say at this time is there are better players who were selected after the Leafs picked Biggs and Leivo.

The jury is still out, but this much we know.

One player selected later is playing well in the NHL, while the Leafs players are playing "well" in junior.

It is way too soon to say what is going to happen 3-5 years from now when it is expected we'll know who turned into NHL players.

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04-06-2013, 01:41 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
Do all these kids go through the combine, with strength tests? He's a tiny fella, but I have a buddy who's was that small at ~16-18, and at 21, 165lbs, he benched 315 twice. Some people have enough strength to compensate for a lot of size loss. I doubt Antropov can do that. But Marty St Luois is very strong.

Either way, he's killing it. How common is that scoring? I don't follow USHL at all.
One thing I've heard about the combine is the necessity to complete the exercise completely according to standard. A lift for example can be disqualified if it wasn't done completely correctly, and so just strength alone isn't recognized.

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04-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
All anyone can say at this time is there are better players who were selected after the Leafs picked Biggs and Leivo.

The jury is still out, but this much we know.

One player selected later is playing well in the NHL, while the Leafs players are playing "well" in junior.

It is way too soon to say what is going to happen 3-5 years from now when it is expected we'll know who turned into NHL players.
Just because people have doubts, doesn't mean they don't want these kids to succeed. It's a common misconception around here, although there are those that will pit one player against another for trolling purposes, but that's the menality of some.

I want Biggs and Percy to do well, but I don't have to like the way we reached for both, and lost a trade in terms of value to make one of those reaches.

That said, Biggs has 1pt in the playoffs, and he should be more known for his scoring (relative to his draft position, and his physical dominance of his competition) than his beating up 17+18 year olds.

Percy never stood out to me for any reason, other than he rarely played like a bonehead, which isn't a reason to take a 2nd round player in the 1st.

I do hope they improve, and become valuable assets, whether in blue and white, or as trade chips.

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04-06-2013, 01:56 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Just because people have doubts, doesn't mean they don't want these kids to succeed. It's a common misconception around here, although there are those that will pit one player against another for trolling purposes, but that's the menality of some.

I want Biggs and Percy to do well, but I don't have to like the way we reached for both, and lost a trade in terms of value to make one of those reaches.

That said, Biggs has 1pt in the playoffs, and he should be more known for his scoring (relative to his draft position, and his physical dominance of his competition) than his beating up 17+18 year olds.

Percy never stood out to me for any reason, other than he rarely played like a bonehead, which isn't a reason to take a 2nd round player in the 1st.

I do hope they improve, and become valuable assets, whether in blue and white, or as trade chips.
Totally fine if you feel that way.

I too was not in favor of trading up to get these players since there were other talented players available with our 3 picks.

However, if we had not selected Biggs/Percy where we did, they would not be available when we picked. There were a number of teams interested in selecting them.

Since this is the case, I have to believe that the scouts and GM's of our team and other teams saw something in Biggs/Percy that we haven't.

Also, Biggs's max potential reminds of Roberts in the good old days when we made playoffs and beat the snot out of teams. Biggs may never be that player, but a guy ca hope

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04-06-2013, 02:13 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Also, Biggs's max potential reminds of Roberts in the good old days when we made playoffs and beat the snot out of teams. Biggs may never be that player, but a guy ca hope
We can hope, and we usually do.

Too bad that doesn't make it happen or we'd be celebrating years of Cup success.

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04-06-2013, 02:17 PM
  #89
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We can hope, and we usually do.

Too bad that doesn't make it happen or we'd be celebrating years of Cup success.
Well, we basically go screwed out of a cup by the refs during the series against Kings.

**** YOU WAYNE ****ING GRETZKY

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04-06-2013, 02:33 PM
  #90
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Biggs is no Roberts. Let's not be Ridiculous

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04-06-2013, 04:43 PM
  #91
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Biggs is no Roberts. Let's not be Ridiculous
How is that ridiculous. Do you know for a fact that Biggs can't produce at the NHL level?


Last edited by Leaf Rocket: 04-06-2013 at 05:16 PM. Reason: nope.
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04-06-2013, 04:46 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Just because people have doubts, doesn't mean they don't want these kids to succeed. It's a common misconception around here, although there are those that will pit one player against another for trolling purposes, but that's the menality of some.

I want Biggs and Percy to do well, but I don't have to like the way we reached for both, and lost a trade in terms of value to make one of those reaches.

That said, Biggs has 1pt in the playoffs, and he should be more known for his scoring (relative to his draft position, and his physical dominance of his competition) than his beating up 17+18 year olds.

Percy never stood out to me for any reason, other than he rarely played like a bonehead, which isn't a reason to take a 2nd round player in the 1st.

I do hope they improve, and become valuable assets, whether in blue and white, or as trade chips.
I agree. At the time it seemed like a lot or an "overreach" as you so eloquently put it & at this point in time, 2 years later, it still looks to have been an overpayment, given how some of the other players taken after them have developed much quicker & to be fair, perhaps ahead of the pace.

There's clearly lots of room for improvement, but I have faith in Morrison "getting his guy" Biggs & can forgive him for the selection of Leivo because of where we got him, which may well make up for the overpayment.

We won't know for another few years.

See you then

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04-06-2013, 04:55 PM
  #93
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How is that ridiculous. Do you know for a fact that Biggs can't produce at the NHL level?
Biggs doesn't have that offense that Roberts had, sure he's doing well in the OHL but he just doesn't have that skill. Unless he has crosby at his side, he should be getting around the 15 goal mark in the NHL HOPEFULLY.

At best we should project Biggs to be more like a Dustin Brown Lite or something similar. He'll be good for us for sure and I'm a fan of him.


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04-06-2013, 05:14 PM
  #94
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How is that ridiculous. Do you know for a fact that Biggs can't produce at the NHL level?
Lol... Clearly, i need to find your dealer. Roberts (at 19, I believe) put up 106 pts with the Ottawa 67's. he also put up 80+ and 90pt seasons in the NHL.

So please, go ahead an enlighten me as to what you have as evidence for that kind of production.

Lay off the insults until you've done your homework.


Last edited by Leaf Rocket: 04-06-2013 at 05:17 PM. Reason: qep
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04-06-2013, 05:15 PM
  #95
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I agree. At the time it seemed like a lot or an "overreach" as you so eloquently put it & at this point in time, 2 years later, it still looks to have been an overpayment, given how some of the other players taken after them have developed much quicker & to be fair, perhaps ahead of the pace.

There's clearly lots of room for improvement, but I have faith in Morrison "getting his guy" Biggs & can forgive him for the selection of Leivo because of where we got him, which may well make up for the overpayment.

We won't know for another few years.

See you then
The other pick was Percy, not Leivo. Leivo has shown excellent progression. Percy in the OHL this year...... :/

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04-06-2013, 05:16 PM
  #96
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Everybody stop with the GD Biggs/Lucic stuff. It's an absolute pipe dream that Biggs, who isn't near as tough, nor as offensively capable as Lucic, turns out anything like him.

It WAS a poor trade from a value standpoint. Was then, is now. Hopefully he develops to his max potential, and makes us forget about it.
Yeah, cause Lucic is just lighting up the league right now. Over-rated.

My point was just that teams pick guys that shouldn't be drafted high all the time and at the end of the day, if the guy helps you win the cup, who gives a **** where he was drafted.

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04-06-2013, 05:22 PM
  #97
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Yeah, cause Lucic is just lighting up the league right now. Over-rated.

My point was just that teams pick guys that shouldn't be drafted high all the time and at the end of the day, if the guy helps you win the cup, who gives a **** where he was drafted.
Well, it's gonna be a loooooooong day, apparently.

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04-06-2013, 05:35 PM
  #98
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The other pick was Percy, not Leivo. Leivo has shown excellent progression. Percy in the OHL this year...... :/
Im giving percy a pass. He had a major concussion again from that brutal hit, he was showing that offensive power again this time around oddly. As he's more of that calming presence not a offensive specialist.

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04-06-2013, 08:13 PM
  #99
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Percy has a goal tonight, first game as a Marlie of the season.

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04-06-2013, 08:43 PM
  #100
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Everybody stop with the GD Biggs/Lucic stuff. It's an absolute pipe dream that Biggs, who isn't near as tough, nor as offensively capable as Lucic, turns out anything like him.

It WAS a poor trade from a value standpoint. Was then, is now. Hopefully he develops to his max potential, and makes us forget about it.
didn't people say that about kadri as well? o wait....

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