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David Desharnais - Black or White Edition

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Old
04-06-2013, 01:50 PM
  #526
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
IMO Eller's spot should be safe long term because there's no one else in the organization that brings the same complete game attributes with his size/speed. At worst, he should be a staple on the 3rd line for years to come.

The reason there's a Eller vs DD is because those two are the most likely to be moved among the 4 centers. Plekanec and Galchenyuk aren't going anywhere. Team management has stated Galchenyuk is a center several times. The player being moved once Galchenyuk becomes ready will be either Eller/DD. DD signed a 4 year deal making him unlikely to be dealt any time soon (GM takes heat when you sign and trade and I don't think Bergevin is the type). This leaves trading Eller or moving one of Eller/DD to wing. Regardless, this type of scenario is what I mean in terms of them being connected.



They're issue is their inability to play team D and coaching. Their offensive personnel is quite good.
No, it's Gally vs DD. When Gally is ready, he will be taking DD's spot.

DD and Eller aren't competing because DD can never be the #3C because of his skill set. He isn't a shut down center.

I suppose DD can emerge and supplant Pleks but given Pleks strong 2 way game, that will almost never happen.

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Old
04-06-2013, 01:55 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
No, it's Gally vs DD. When Gally is ready, he will be taking DD's spot.

DD and Eller aren't competing because DD can never be the #3C because of his skill set. He isn't a shut down center.

I suppose DD can emerge and supplant Pleks but given Pleks strong 2 way game, that will almost never happen.

I agree on the first two parts. I disagree with the last sentence though. DD does not have the skill set or size to take over Plek's job.

DD will be a #2 center for his entire career here as using him at winger would not play to his strength. DD really is one-dimensional but as long as he is performing, he is not a liability.

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Old
04-06-2013, 02:01 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Underlined and bolded emphasis added by me.

GREAT post!!!

There are teams in the NHL that are starving for offense. Colorado is a very good example. Columbus and Nashville as well.

Those three teams have pretty good size and would benefit from having a playmaker like DD on their roster. If the need arises and the situation in Montreal changes, DD with his contract and offensive ability could easily be traded to one of those teams.

It would not be for a first round pick or a "superstar", but DD could bring Montreal a player that provides value or fill a need.

To be fretting about next year or the year after that...............and most definitely this year is an exercise in futility.

DD is not the best center in Montreal. He is playing his role well though.
And what is his role?

His role is to be an offensive-minded player and PP specialist.
That's where i got a problem. With all his PP time and the best offensive wingers and all those Ozone start......he should be running the show offensively.

That is his role.

But on the PP he create next to nothing, Eller produce as many points with 20 minutes of PP instead of 95 for DD. Is he playing his role well?

Our 2-way center Plekanec, who is facing top opposition night afeter night, who supposed to be our shutdown line.....he's better than DD offensively right now. Is he playing his role well?

Nevermind the fact that our 3rd line center (who is playing with Armstrong, Dumont, Moen and Prust) is almost right up there with DD offensively.

DD is not bad offensively, actually he is allright....but should be better than Plekanec with all the advantages that he got, he should be WAY better than Eller also.....but he is not.

So because of that, i wouldn't say that DD is playing his role well!
Not this year at least

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Old
04-06-2013, 02:04 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
And what is his role?

His role is to be an offensive-minded player and PP specialist.
That's where i got a problem. With all his PP time and the best offensive wingers and all those Ozone start......he should be running the show offensively.

That is his role.

But on the PP he create next to nothing, Eller produce as many points with 20 minutes of PP instead of 95 for DD. Is he playing his role well?

Our 2-way center Plekanec, who is facing top opposition night afeter night, who supposed to be our shutdown line.....he's better than DD offensively right now. Is he playing his role well?

Nevermind the fact that our 3rd line center (who is playing with Armstrong, Dumont, Moen and Prust) is almost right up there with DD.

DD is not bad offensively, actually he is allright....but should be better than Plekanec with all the advantages that he got, he should WAY better Eller also.....but he is not.

So because of that, i wouldn't say that DD is playing his role well!
Not this year at least
As much as I prefer Eller over DD in the long run, I find it hard to believe that DD will stay this bad on the PP for long. He really does have great vision. Usually players like him excel with the man advantage.

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04-06-2013, 02:12 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
As much as I prefer Eller over DD in the long run, I find it hard to believe that DD will stay this bad on the PP for long. He really does have great vision. Usually players like him excel with the man advantage.
Yep, the PP is the bread and butter of these type of players (Playmaker).
Which is really scary. Cause if he don't find his game on the PP.....he would be in trouble.

But he had many many many chances.....when Plek is back, won't be long before poeple start asking that Eller should replace him on the PP (And i already scream for it).

They both got 5 points in PP
Eller played about 75 minute less than DD in PP
And 2 of DD's 5 points were on 5 on 3.
Eller should already be there

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04-06-2013, 02:14 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I agree on the first two parts. I disagree with the last sentence though. DD does not have the skill set or size to take over Plek's job.

DD will be a #2 center for his entire career here as using him at winger would not play to his strength. DD really is one-dimensional but as long as he is performing, he is not a liability.
Actually you agree with all my points, especially the last sentence. I said, it would basically never happen but I was including it, to show all of the potential options.

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04-06-2013, 02:17 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Yep, the PP is the bread and butter of these type of players (Playmaker).
Which is really scary. Cause if he don't find his game on the PP.....he would be in trouble.

But he had many many many chances.....when Plek is back, won't be long before poeple start asking that Eller should replace him on the PP (And i already scream for it).

They both got 5 points in PP
Eller played about 75 minute less than DD in PP
And 2 of DD's 5 points were on 5 on 3.
Eller should already be there
I'd put Gally there over Eller. Let him play wing for now but let him center the PP. Those are ideal soft minutes that can help his development.

Gally has the best all around game vs DD and Eller. He has the potential for great playmaking and is way more of a natural scorer than both of them.

Both DD and Eller lack scoring to be more effective on the PP.

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04-06-2013, 05:42 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Not sure what your point is. Galchenyuk isn't better yet. What's funny about Eller is when people compare him to Desharnais. Guess what, if you trade DD because galchenyuk is ready Eller is still 3rd line center. It's really desharnais vs galchenyuk and no one else. As for that well see when time comes and galchenyuk can play wing. Yes, we want gally to develop as a C but they'll see how he adapts the NHL first. In addition, in another situation Eller can play wing. Other than that well see. People get traded or improve/regress all the time. Injuries happen, well see when time comes.

I do not mind contract at all because I like depth! When it becomes an issue well fix it, right now it isn't so why people insist on making it one is beyond me. It's not some 6 mil per 12 year deal. It's a simple 3.5 per, 4 year deal for a top6/9 player. A lot of UFAs who aren't physical got 4 mil per and 4 years. It is essentially the going rate so he's not impossible to move. Relax.
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
The one idea that I really object to in this debate is the suggestion that Eller should be moved to wing to make room for DD.

This is NOT a move that will help the Habs. It is a move that will help DD.

It is suggestions like this that, I think, irritate some people here, and keep this debate going. It shows a love for a player that overrides love for the team.

I like DD, and I hope like hell he can adapt to wing, starting as soon as later next season, and learn to finish. He'll have a lot of competition though.

But I hope the best for the guy because I like him, his hard work, and his spirit. Bergy does too obviously.

I don't blame anyone for being a big fan of DD. Just try to be cool about it, and remember the big picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
IMO Eller's spot should be safe long term because there's no one else in the organization that brings the same complete game attributes with his size/speed. At worst, he should be a staple on the 3rd line for years to come.

The reason there's a Eller vs DD is because those two are the most likely to be moved among the 4 centers. Plekanec and Galchenyuk aren't going anywhere. Team management has stated Galchenyuk is a center several times. The player being moved once Galchenyuk becomes ready will be either Eller/DD. DD signed a 4 year deal making him unlikely to be dealt any time soon (GM takes heat when you sign and trade and I don't think Bergevin is the type). This leaves trading Eller or moving one of Eller/DD to wing. Regardless, this type of scenario is what I mean in terms of them being connected.



They're issue is their inability to play team D and coaching. Their offensive personnel is quite good.
These are two good responses to your questions.

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Old
04-06-2013, 05:45 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
And what is his role?

His role is to be an offensive-minded player and PP specialist.
That's where i got a problem. With all his PP time and the best offensive wingers and all those Ozone start......he should be running the show offensively.

That is his role.

But on the PP he create next to nothing, Eller produce as many points with 20 minutes of PP instead of 95 for DD. Is he playing his role well?

Our 2-way center Plekanec, who is facing top opposition night afeter night, who supposed to be our shutdown line.....he's better than DD offensively right now. Is he playing his role well?

Nevermind the fact that our 3rd line center (who is playing with Armstrong, Dumont, Moen and Prust) is almost right up there with DD offensively.

DD is not bad offensively, actually he is allright....but should be better than Plekanec with all the advantages that he got, he should be WAY better than Eller also.....but he is not.

So because of that, i wouldn't say that DD is playing his role well!
Not this year at least
Playing his role on offense? (I will say without a doubt that Eller is far better than DD on defense and is the reason why Eller is on the PK and DD is not)

I decided to look at the scoring. Dismiss it all you like but that is the measure of "offense"

Top 3 scoring forwards
1. Ryder
2. Pacioretty
3. Plekanec

4-6 scoring forwards
4. Gionta
5. Desharnais
6. Gallagher

7-9 scoring forwards
7. Eller
8. Galchenyuk
9. Prust & Bourque

Do you find it odd that the top 6 scoring forwards are playing on the top two lines? Amazing.

And to head off your next argument before you make it, Ryder and Eller are averaging the same number of shifts per game.

Eller is more beneficial to the TEAM playing on the 3rd line and killing penalties. He is better defensively and it takes defense to win.

I am thankful that Therrien has the best interests of his team in mind as a priority instead of your top priority which is Lars Eller.

As with last game, I do hope that Eller scores the game winner against the Bruins..........or any other Habs player for that matter.

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Old
04-06-2013, 06:43 PM
  #535
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Southern,

You may hate stats, but at a minimum, you should normalize scoring to total ice time on Pp and ES, zone starts, etc.

For example, you put Bourque in 9th, but that is misleading.

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Old
04-06-2013, 07:21 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Southern,

You may hate stats, but at a minimum, you should normalize scoring to total ice time on Pp and ES, zone starts, etc.

For example, you put Bourque in 9th, but that is misleading.
I understand what you are saying.

Still doesnt change the point I am trying to make. Eller is more important to the team killing penalties than Chuckie or DD right now.

If DD is taken off of the PP and replaced with Chuckie, I dont have a problem with that.

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04-06-2013, 07:58 PM
  #537
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First Bergevin mistake!! Desharnais sucks bad since he signed his big fat contract.... It was a mistake to sign him for so long..

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04-06-2013, 07:59 PM
  #538
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Sigh...cant believe desharnais signed for 4 more years.... just clogging up a key spot for us...god damn it

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04-06-2013, 08:04 PM
  #539
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The extension hasn't even started yet, so no, it's not a 'mistake' at this point.

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04-06-2013, 08:09 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I understand what you are saying.

Still doesnt change the point I am trying to make. Eller is more important to the team killing penalties than Chuckie or DD right now.

If DD is taken off of the PP and replaced with Chuckie, I dont have a problem with that.
Agreed, but there's no rule against doing all three when you're the best option. Team first.

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04-06-2013, 08:10 PM
  #541
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Sigh...cant believe desharnais signed for 4 more years.... just clogging up a key spot for us...god damn it
Clogging up a key spot?

Having depth at center is never a bad thing. With his contract if we have to move him we'll get good value back.

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04-06-2013, 08:10 PM
  #542
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The hilarious thing is Galchenyuk might outpoint Eller and DD this season.

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04-06-2013, 08:15 PM
  #543
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It's got to the point where instead of just bashing him in the GDT, people are bumping his thread during games? Fun.

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04-06-2013, 09:05 PM
  #544
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Not a fan of DD at all. Really stupid move to give him such a long contract mid season like this. I don't get it.. It's not like he started off this season with good play.

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04-06-2013, 09:37 PM
  #545
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It's got to the point where instead of just bashing him in the GDT, people are bumping his thread during games? Fun.
I stay away from GDTs.

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04-06-2013, 10:58 PM
  #546
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I stay away from GDTs.
Me too.

The mood swings and immediate negativity posts are a downer.

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04-06-2013, 10:59 PM
  #547
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And not just regarding DD. Other players as well, from Price to Pacioretty.

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04-07-2013, 12:41 AM
  #548
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Not sure what your point is. Galchenyuk isn't better yet. What's funny about Eller is when people compare him to Desharnais. Guess what, if you trade DD because galchenyuk is ready Eller is still 3rd line center. It's really desharnais vs galchenyuk and no one else. As for that well see when time comes and galchenyuk can play wing. Yes, we want gally to develop as a C but they'll see how he adapts the NHL first. In addition, in another situation Eller can play wing. Other than that well see. People get traded or improve/regress all the time. Injuries happen, well see when time comes.

I do not mind contract at all because I like depth! When it becomes an issue well fix it, right now it isn't so why people insist on making it one is beyond me. It's not some 6 mil per 12 year deal. It's a simple 3.5 per, 4 year deal for a top6/9 player. A lot of UFAs who aren't physical got 4 mil per and 4 years. It is essentially the going rate so he's not impossible to move. Relax.
Some of us are saying that this contract is not so simple because it does not make sense!

Desharnais has to be a top 6 player, top 2 center... he is too weak to play on the third line. The habs future top 2 centers are Pleks and Chuckie... so where is Desharnais playing when Chuckie breaks out?

What if Chuckie breaks out next year? Where does Desharnais play??
Yet, the Habs will be stuck with his contract for 3 more years! Don't understand the rush to sign Desharnais last month to 4 years.

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04-07-2013, 01:29 AM
  #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
And not just regarding DD. Other players as well, from Price to Pacioretty.
And Eller too ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I understand what you are saying.

Still doesnt change the point I am trying to make. Eller is more important to the team killing penalties than Chuckie or DD right now.

If DD is taken off of the PP and replaced with Chuckie, I dont have a problem with that.
Why not just take off Gio... Put DD in his place and give Chuckie and Eller PP time too ?
S-I-M-P-L-E

Make it happen MT.

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04-07-2013, 04:32 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Some of us are saying that this contract is not so simple because it does not make sense!

Desharnais has to be a top 6 player, top 2 center... he is too weak to play on the third line. The habs future top 2 centers are Pleks and Chuckie... so where is Desharnais playing when Chuckie breaks out?

What if Chuckie breaks out next year? Where does Desharnais play??
Yet, the Habs will be stuck with his contract for 3 more years! Don't understand the rush to sign Desharnais last month to 4 years.
Has Chuckie broken out yet? Nope.

How are we 'stuck'? Guy has a market value contract...We could easily find a taker for Desharnais, Eller, Galchenyuk or Plekanec. I'm not saying to trade any of them, I'm just saying all aren't overpaid and contribute and have value around the league. We aren't stuck with anything.

What if Galchenyuk doesn't break out next year? What if injuries happen? Etc.. etc..What's your point exactly, we have depth.

What if Beaulieu breaks out, then we HAVE to trade Diaz!!!! If Tinordi breaks out we need to trade Emelin or Gorges!!!! Yah, who needs depth? Relax man. What are we even talking about? "Holy ****, we may have more than 1 offensive option!!!! we're screwed". Remember when our C depth sucked? We have some now and we need to trade it just incase one player becomes a superstar by next year in a position he rarely plays? Fantastic.

I don't even know what people are busting about. DD got market value, so he CAN be moved. IF he needs to be moved, they WILL move him. Right now, he doesn't NEED to be moved. That simple.

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