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All Encompassing Tortorella Thread Pt. II

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Old
04-06-2013, 05:10 AM
  #876
Ola
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An AHL team can be well coached. It's not about the players (at least not our players). We are just not well coached. Anyone can see that.

We give away a ton of pucks.

We fail to lock up Ds.

We have a horrible passing game. It of course mostly evident from the fact that our PP is among the worst in the league, but it also cost us 5 on 5 and defensively.

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04-06-2013, 05:46 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
An AHL team can be well coached. It's not about the players (at least not our players). We are just not well coached. Anyone can see that.

We give away a ton of pucks.

We fail to lock up Ds.

We have a horrible passing game. It of course mostly evident from the fact that our PP is among the worst in the league, but it also cost us 5 on 5 and defensively.
team is scared of Torts' defensive accountability.

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04-06-2013, 06:32 AM
  #878
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you can talk about torts' system all you want, but the 1 thing he does, the one thing i love, is he holds players accountable.

young. old. highly paid, under paid. if you play well, you play. if you don't you don't.


i love that about him, i really do.
He doesn't do it with any sort of consistency. Pyatt has been terrible all year and has yet to miss a game. Despite being worthless offensively, Boyle gets powerplay time and skates with the third line rather than the fourth. Torts clearly plays favorites.

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04-06-2013, 07:47 AM
  #879
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guy is as hard as nails.. is that a crime to have his team replicate that? if anyones played hockey here, which im sure a lot have.. you guys should all know that a tenacious forecheck, hard hitting and in your face style really dictates the play of the game..

hes a great coach.. is he a babcock..no but hes what you want in a coach.. demands a strong work ethic and play a 60min game how it was meant to play.. i love he holds everyone accountable whether your making 12m/yr or entry level contract.. great coach.. we got our players now its up to the players to buy into torts and torts to get w's...

firing the coach is way to easy and everyone blaims them, but ultimately the players got to check theyre ego at the door, put on their hard hats/boots and get to work.. i love the trade.. it will pay dividends short and long term... love the toughness and mostly our willingness to play tough and take no ****.. when things got tough and chippy last night the rangers responded and shows balls..

i can get use to clowe policing the ice.. guy is already making a name for himself here!

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04-06-2013, 11:01 AM
  #880
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Of course Torts shouldn't be trashed if he wins a cup.

But we are 8-9 in the East, and we should be a contender. We have a ton of assets from the net and out and many has been hand picked by Torts.

Hank was wonderful last season, but besides a few weeks before and after the WC, the team looked very avg.

Where are the results?

And don't bring up the lack of talent card. Torts employs a system that requires 80% of his wingers to be board monsters. He always put a straight jacket on talent. And he can't work with anyone who doesn't have perfect attitude. Good luck trying to fit 12 talented forwards with perfect attitude, a ton of skill and size under a cap.

He has to find away to put a team on the ice that can like even remotely can compete with like a Ottawa minus Karlsson and Spezza or a Montreal.

So far the other coaches in the East just have done a lot better job than Torts. He is easily the weakest link for this team.
Gabby 40+ goals twice.

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04-06-2013, 11:27 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
Making an exception to enter this thread to make these two posts. I know you weren't hoping for an answer from a Torts "apologist/defender" because it would actually force the people spreading this lie to back up what they say... But they haven't - and they can't - so they won't; and will just continue to ignore you. Here is something from earlier in the thread (debunking this myth):



Based on all of that, it would seem that the conventional wisdom spread around here about Torts stiffling offense is actually completely wrong - and the opposite might in fact be true. You mean to tell me that playing a good defensive game, a good neutral zone game, and a hard forecheck can actually produce... GASP offense!?!

No... Can't be... I mean, after all, that is exactly what Torts says! And we all know how much that guy sucks.
This thread is more a sounding board for people who dislike the coach than it is a place for any rational or "all encompassing" discussion. When the team wins, nobody posts. When they lose, the thread is full of complaints. Posts about how much Torts sucks get quoted on and on and cheered along even if they offer absolutely nothing in the way of logic or examples. Posts that question the Tort sucks narrative get lost.

I've had to read about how Torts is going to ruin the new guys dozens of times in a handful of different threads. I've yet to hear any counter argument to all of these examples of players that either improved their production or held their previous production under Torts. That's fine in and of itself, but it's pretty frustrating to have those posts completely ignored and then keep reading the same stuff about Torts stifling everyone over and over and over.

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04-06-2013, 11:35 AM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post

Based on all of that, it would seem that the conventional wisdom spread around here about Torts stiffling offense is actually completely wrong - and the opposite might in fact be true. You mean to tell me that playing a good defensive game, a good neutral zone game, and a hard forecheck can actually produce... GASP offense!?!

No... Can't be... I mean, after all, that is exactly what Torts says! And we all know how much that guy sucks.
and yet we're still 30th in goals for. gasp, offense.

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Old
04-06-2013, 11:43 AM
  #883
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
This thread is more a sounding board for people who dislike the coach than it is a place for any rational or "all encompassing" discussion. When the team wins, nobody posts. When they lose, the thread is full of complaints. Posts about how much Torts sucks get quoted on and on and cheered along even if they offer absolutely nothing in the way of logic or examples. Posts that question the Tort sucks narrative get lost.

I've had to read about how Torts is going to ruin the new guys dozens of times in a handful of different threads. I've yet to hear any counter argument to all of these examples of players that either improved their production or held their previous production under Torts. That's fine in and of itself, but it's pretty frustrating to have those posts completely ignored and then keep reading the same stuff about Torts stifling everyone over and over and over.
Hehe is there one? Prust? He's scoring more than ever in MTL...

On a more serious objective note, I definitely think that Torts can be an excellent people coach. Motivator. Pushing a team to the level it takes to win a cup. Far from all coaches in the league have that.

But I definitely doubt (the correct word) if he in terms of X and Os, puts a team that just is miles less drilled than the other teams in the East.

I am no hockey wiz who have been around for ever. But I've followed this league closely, and especially the POs, for 20 years. You need to be more or less PERFECT to WIN a cup. Torts game plan was spot on 04'. Before the lockout. With the red line offside which took away and option of being creative in the neutralzone along with the clutching and grabbing.

Torts is not perfect in terms of game plan 2013. I would put him in the bottom 10 if not 5 among the 30 coaches. Our passing game is just horrible, it really shows on the PP but also in other areas. Other teams has put a ton of focus on being able to keep the puck within the their team and carry the momentum instead of focusing solely on cutting down on misstakes. And they have worked a that for years. We have done the opposite. Kept pucks along the boards in areas where it don't cost you if you loose it (like the game was played in 04').

So I definitely have huge concerns re Torts. It also pisses me of that he fails to take a couple of steps away from the bench and see what the successful teams in our mold are doing. His ego is obviously in the way from him doing so. Hell keep trashing the players instead and blame them for every loss.

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Old
04-06-2013, 11:45 AM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Ryan McDonut View Post
and yet we're still 30th in goals for. gasp, offense.
And is that because Torts stifles offense even though there's a long list of players whose offense got better or remained the same under him? Or is it because this team iced a lineup with 2 struggling stars and 6 skaters who, even when playing up their standards, weren't going to put up any points?

The team was 11th in goals for last year with the same "stifling" coach. Maybe it's not the coaching that caused the offense to implode this year. Maybe it was two stars playing underwhelming games even though they've produced under the same coach in the same system in previous years. Maybe it was them combined with a bottom 6 completely void of anybody who is capable of putting up points.

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04-06-2013, 11:57 AM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Hehe is there one? Prust? He's scoring more than ever in MTL...

On a more serious objective note, I definitely think that Torts can be an excellent people coach. Motivator. Pushing a team to the level it takes to win a cup. Far from all coaches in the league have that.

But I definitely doubt (the correct word) if he in terms of X and Os, puts a team that just is miles less drilled than the other teams in the East.

I am no hockey wiz who have been around for ever. But I've followed this league closely, and especially the POs, for 20 years. You need to be more or less PERFECT to WIN a cup. Torts game plan was spot on 04'. Before the lockout. With the red line offside which took away and option of being creative in the neutralzone along with the clutching and grabbing.

Torts is not perfect in terms of game plan 2013. I would put him in the bottom 10 if not 5 among the 30 coaches. Our passing game is just horrible, it really shows on the PP but also in other areas. Other teams has put a ton of focus on being able to keep the puck within the their team and carry the momentum instead of focusing solely on cutting down on misstakes. And they have worked a that for years. We have done the opposite. Kept pucks along the boards in areas where it don't cost you if you loose it (like the game was played in 04').

So I definitely have huge concerns re Torts. It also pisses me of that he fails to take a couple of steps away from the bench and see what the successful teams in our mold are doing. His ego is obviously in the way from him doing so. Hell keep trashing the players instead and blame them for every loss.
Prust also went from being an extra forward scoring single digit point totals to a valuable bottom 6 piece under Torts.

I can't agree with "bottom 10 if not 5 among 30 coaches" at all. He's not top 5 by any means, but come on. Last year his team had 109 points, was second in the league in point percentage, 11th in goals/game and third in goals against/game. Yeah, Hank was in god mode, but he wasn't scoring goals and he had a smart, hard-working team defense in front of him. As much as people love to push last year off as the aberration - last year was a normal season and this year is a last minute bastardized season. This year is an aberration by definition. I don't mean to imply that this team is a 109 point, ECF team from now on, becuase that remeains to be proven and/or seen, but this season is the weird one. Last year, this coach crafted a gameplan that fit his roster perfectly and a lot of players (Hank, Gaborik, Callahan most notably) had the best seasons of their careers in that system. That's not bottom 5 coaching.

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04-06-2013, 12:42 PM
  #886
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And is that because Torts stifles offense even though there's a long list of players whose offense got better or remained the same under him? Or is it because this team iced a lineup with 2 struggling stars and 6 skaters who, even when playing up their standards, weren't going to put up any points?

The team was 11th in goals for last year with the same "stifling" coach. Maybe it's not the coaching that caused the offense to implode this year. Maybe it was two stars playing underwhelming games even though they've produced under the same coach in the same system in previous years. Maybe it was them combined with a bottom 6 completely void of anybody who is capable of putting up points.
i dont know what caused our offense to implode but the fact that torts didn't try to do anything to fix it is a problem. when he said "we don't really focus on offense in practice" when you're last in goals for is completely ridiculous. maybe if he said "oh offense is our number one priority right now and we're working on a better transition game and fix this problem" then i wouldn't be that unhappy with him. his stubbornness in my opinion is a huge problem. the disaster that is the bottom six is not his fault however. now that we have a real 3rd line center it doesn't look as bad

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Old
04-06-2013, 01:00 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Hehe is there one? Prust? He's scoring more than ever in MTL...

On a more serious objective note, I definitely think that Torts can be an excellent people coach. Motivator. Pushing a team to the level it takes to win a cup. Far from all coaches in the league have that.

But I definitely doubt (the correct word) if he in terms of X and Os, puts a team that just is miles less drilled than the other teams in the East.

I am no hockey wiz who have been around for ever. But I've followed this league closely, and especially the POs, for 20 years. You need to be more or less PERFECT to WIN a cup. Torts game plan was spot on 04'. Before the lockout. With the red line offside which took away and option of being creative in the neutralzone along with the clutching and grabbing.

Torts is not perfect in terms of game plan 2013. I would put him in the bottom 10 if not 5 among the 30 coaches. Our passing game is just horrible, it really shows on the PP but also in other areas. Other teams has put a ton of focus on being able to keep the puck within the their team and carry the momentum instead of focusing solely on cutting down on misstakes. And they have worked a that for years. We have done the opposite. Kept pucks along the boards in areas where it don't cost you if you loose it (like the game was played in 04').

So I definitely have huge concerns re Torts. It also pisses me of that he fails to take a couple of steps away from the bench and see what the successful teams in our mold are doing. His ego is obviously in the way from him doing so. Hell keep trashing the players instead and blame them for every loss.
That wasn't Torts strategy in 04 at all

It's asinine to think Torts is telling players to suck at passing. Oh yeah, all those good coaches are teaching their guys passing and working on it. I bet all the other coaches break out the eggs like in the Mighty Ducks. That movie was about NHL players right? Our guys are professionals, not first graders.

I've said this like 1000 times, if we try to play like the hawks we'll just get beaten by the hawks and others who play that way much better. Sorry we're not going to look like the way you play NHL on your xbox or ps3. Last ****ing year, how were we the best in the east? Playing the right way. It's called "the right way" for a ****ing reason.


Last edited by JeffMangum: 04-06-2013 at 02:23 PM.
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Old
04-06-2013, 01:57 PM
  #888
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If Tort's is winning, he will be loved even adored. If he's losing people will call for his head.

OK? Good. That's settled.

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04-06-2013, 02:21 PM
  #889
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LOL at Ola blaming our team's passing woes on Tortorella. That's just comical. It's up to the players' creativity and vision to tell them who to pass to and when. People think hockey is a game of X's and O's when most of it is on the fly decision-making.

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04-06-2013, 02:29 PM
  #890
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If the players were capable of consistently making these flashy scoring plays and all that fancy **** that everyone can't get enough of, they'd do it. Tortorella is not on the bench telling Nash that he'll be scratched if he tries to deke out a defender or carry the puck into the zone. Maybe, just maybe, the players are at fault for our scoring woes. Or maybe other teams are just playing strong defensively


Meh, I guess blaming Torts is just more fun

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04-06-2013, 03:41 PM
  #891
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If Tort's is winning, he will be loved even adored. If he's losing people will call for his head.

OK? Good. That's settled.
Nail-->head

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04-06-2013, 03:44 PM
  #892
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If the players were capable of consistently making these flashy scoring plays and all that fancy **** that everyone can't get enough of, they'd do it. Tortorella is not on the bench telling Nash that he'll be scratched if he tries to deke out a defender or carry the puck into the zone. Maybe, just maybe, the players are at fault for our scoring woes. Or maybe other teams are just playing strong defensively


Meh, I guess blaming Torts is just more fun
no but he could change his strategy and practice breakouts more. the collapsing into the crease style we play makes it very hard to breakout of our own zone. a lot of offense is generated off of the transition game, which we basically don't have. fixing the transition should be his main priority, but for some reason it isn't. and people argue that we dont have "true puck carriers." you don't need to be sidney crosby to be able to carry the puck through the neutral zone competently.

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04-06-2013, 03:53 PM
  #893
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no but he could change his strategy and practice breakouts more. the collapsing into the crease style we play makes it very hard to breakout of our own zone. a lot of offense is generated off of the transition game, which we basically don't have. fixing the transition should be his main priority, but for some reason it isn't. and people argue that we dont have "true puck carriers." you don't need to be sidney crosby to be able to carry the puck through the neutral zone competently.
The strategy in the D zone, which is the cause of the poor breakouts, isn't changing because this team was 3rd in GA/G last year and is currently 4th this year. The D zone strategy is working and shouldn't be overhauled IMO. Maybe they should practice breakouts more, maybe not. I have next to no idea how much they work on any specific thing in practice and I strongly suspect that nobody around here does.

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04-06-2013, 04:04 PM
  #894
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The way the Rangers are going right now, fighting the anti-Tortorella fight at this point wouldn't be beneficial to anyone. I still dislike Torts heavily. I still dislike the selective accountability he shows.

Yeah, the Rangers are currently still playing well, but they still have issues.

29th in goals/game
22nd ranked power play
16th ranked penalty kill

And of course, still fighting for our playoff lives.

At the dark stages of this season, I'm loathe to admit that any Rangers game was a win/win for me. Win? Cool, I love when the Rangers win. Lose? Okay, I can deal, maybe the seat will start burning under Tortorella.

If the trade deadline proved anything, however, it's that the Rangers management is certainly All-In on Tortorella as a coach. He's not going anywhere barring an absolute disaster, and honestly that will never happen with Lundqvist between the pipes. So? With that thinking, Tortorella is here to stay, so it's time to start trying to get behind him.

I will never be behind Torts 100% Ever. If he brings a Cup to NY, I'd eat my crow plain, and off the floor if you'd have me.

Torts lovers love bringing up last year's run to the ECF, being two wins away from the SCF. That was built off a godlike run of his Vezina winning goalie. Not to mention having to take the 8 and 7 seeded teams to 7 games. Not to mention at the point they lost against the Devils (6 seed) they would have had to take them to 7 as well.

Last year was the anomaly in Torts' tenure so far in New York, and nothing more.

Round 1 loss.
No playoffs.
Round 1 loss.
Round 3 loss.
_____________

What is this year's line going to be filled with? Round 1 loss? No playoffs?

Sather went out and tried to bring more skill into Torts' world. It didn't work. After the deadline, Torts has more of a "Torts team" than he's ever had this season, and so far it's working; 1-0-1 since the deadline against the Pens, that's great stuff. And I hope the Rangers keep it up.

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04-06-2013, 04:20 PM
  #895
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If Tort's is winning, he will be loved even adored. If he's losing people will call for his head.

OK? Good. That's settled.
For me personally, you could have fired him any time last season or right after that 6-1 win the other day. Nothing has changed my opinion from his earliest days here - I still think he's a sloppy coach. There are some things he does well and some things I like a lot about him. But if I am honest with myself, I sincerely think he is a world class goalie away from probably missing the playoffs all but one of his seasons here and I think his bad outweighs his good.

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04-06-2013, 04:56 PM
  #896
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Bottom line - Torts AND Sather are nothing to write home about.

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04-06-2013, 04:57 PM
  #897
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For me personally, you could have fired him any time last season or right after that 6-1 win the other day. Nothing has changed my opinion from his earliest days here - I still think he's a sloppy coach. There are some things he does well and some things I like a lot about him. But if I am honest with myself, I sincerely think he is a world class goalie away from probably missing the playoffs all but one of his seasons here and I think his bad outweighs his good.
Interesting. You could be right, but I could not say. I could think of a few ways I would characterize Tort's. Sloppy would not be one of them.

What specifically tells you he is a sloppy coach?

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04-06-2013, 05:00 PM
  #898
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Bottom line - Torts AND Sather are nothing to write home about.

If by that you mean there are better coaches and GM's out there, few would disagree. But there is plenty one could write and say about these two guys. We prove that every day around here ; )

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04-06-2013, 05:02 PM
  #899
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I wish Torts would stop wasting timeouts in the 1st period after an icing.

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04-06-2013, 05:04 PM
  #900
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I wish Torts would stop wasting timeouts in the 1st period after an icing.
He's not wasting them, he's using them.

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