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Old
12-27-2003, 07:43 AM
  #1
Lowetide
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Four for the Waiver Wire.

If Kevin Lowe spent any time taking a long look at his roster over Christmas (hopefully he didn't take a laminated wallet sized roster to church) , there are several guys who could or should hit the waiver wire if the slide continues.

Salo Probably no takers, but you never know. Maybe the Oilers can get out from under the contract that still has around 2 million left on it.

Isbister What a disappointment. He has shown exactly one power move since arriving, and doesn't even do that now. Bitter disappointment.

Ferguson Solid role guy, always liked him. However, two things have happened this season. The Oilers found another guy (Bergeron) who is capable of playing at a higher level than Ferguson. Also, Ferguson makes the simple play less and less, which is somewhat mysterious since that is what got him the job and kept him here. There are teams that could use Ferguson, so put him on waivers and see who makes a claim.

Georges Laraque Similar to Ferguson in that he seems to have forgotten what got him here. He keeps telling the media he's pushing to score a goal. WHY? I'll tell you something: it's really distressing to read your hammer talk about scoring his first goal of the season in December when you shouldn't give sweet f.a. about it. Are you telling me Dave Brown worried about scoring? Yeah, right.


Agree? Disagree?

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12-27-2003, 08:01 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
If Kevin Lowe spent any time taking a long look at his roster over Christmas (hopefully he didn't take a laminated wallet sized roster to church) , there are several guys who could or should hit the waiver wire if the slide continues.

Salo Probably no takers, but you never know. Maybe the Oilers can get out from under the contract that still has around 2 million left on it.

Isbister What a disappointment. He has shown exactly one power move since arriving, and doesn't even do that now. Bitter disappointment.

Ferguson Solid role guy, always liked him. However, two things have happened this season. The Oilers found another guy (Bergeron) who is capable of playing at a higher level than Ferguson. Also, Ferguson makes the simple play less and less, which is somewhat mysterious since that is what got him the job and kept him here. There are teams that could use Ferguson, so put him on waivers and see who makes a claim.

Georges Laraque Similar to Ferguson in that he seems to have forgotten what got him here. He keeps telling the media he's pushing to score a goal. WHY? I'll tell you something: it's really distressing to read your hammer talk about scoring his first goal of the season in December when you shouldn't give sweet f.a. about it. Are you telling me Dave Brown worried about scoring? Yeah, right.


Agree? Disagree?

The only one I disagree on is Salo.
If my memory serves me correctly, at the time he took less money to stay in Edmonton, he has given this organization some very good years, was an All-star a few times recently, And....... has never stepped out of line. He has always shown class when speaking out (about players or management), and always credited his teammates no matter who's effort got us the 2 points.
(Plus I dont believe someone losses their hockey ability so completely so quickly....)

To throw him away now like yesterdays garbage would not show great class on the Oilers part.

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12-27-2003, 08:06 AM
  #3
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Agree on every waiver pick except one:

Quote:
Isbister What a disappointment. He has shown exactly one power move since arriving, and doesn't even do that now. Bitter disappointment.
Have you watched isbister lately? He is among the few oilers who are actually forechecking with attitude, trying to create chances, and being routinely physical in this bad stretch of ours. Isbister, when healthy and given playing time this year(I have gone back and watched more than 2/3rd's of the games) has been a very solid forward for us. Yes their have been times when you shake your head and wonder why he's out-muscled or why he doesn't cream someone...but for the most part, he has been a very solid addition. As gritty as moreau except bigger and with a better shot and more offensive potential. For a team that is incredibly bad along the boards, taking out one of the few guys who can actually play along the boards(along with smyth, york, torres) without getting completely outmuscled would be foolish. Would I like isbister to have less of a salary? Of course, but I have no problem paying isbister what he's making as long as he keeps workind hard, hitting, and creating chances. For a team that lacks size as much as we do, to put him on waivers would be as foolish a thing as we could do. Horrible choice, IMO, to put on waivers. It's a dissapointment that he hasn't scored like bertuzzi, but if he can get a couple of good breaks, he could easily go on a hot streak. In any case, he's a valuable forward to have around, and is in no way hurting this team. He may not be taking the team on his back, or lighting the lamp nightly, but he is creating chances, being for the most part physical, and working hard on the forecheck. I am not off his bandwagon yet. Go Izzy!


Last edited by mamettt: 12-27-2003 at 08:19 AM.
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12-27-2003, 08:16 AM
  #4
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Uhhh.... Lowetide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
If Kevin Lowe spent any time taking a long look at his roster over Christmas (hopefully he didn't take a laminated wallet sized roster to church) , there are several guys who could or should hit the waiver wire if the slide continues.

Salo Probably no takers, but you never know. Maybe the Oilers can get out from under the contract that still has around 2 million left on it.

Isbister What a disappointment. He has shown exactly one power move since arriving, and doesn't even do that now. Bitter disappointment.

Ferguson Solid role guy, always liked him. However, two things have happened this season. The Oilers found another guy (Bergeron) who is capable of playing at a higher level than Ferguson. Also, Ferguson makes the simple play less and less, which is somewhat mysterious since that is what got him the job and kept him here. There are teams that could use Ferguson, so put him on waivers and see who makes a claim.

Georges Laraque Similar to Ferguson in that he seems to have forgotten what got him here. He keeps telling the media he's pushing to score a goal. WHY? I'll tell you something: it's really distressing to read your hammer talk about scoring his first goal of the season in December when you shouldn't give sweet f.a. about it. Are you telling me Dave Brown worried about scoring? Yeah, right.


Agree? Disagree?
I'll start out by saying that I generally enjoy your posts and although I don't necessarily post a lot I read the site on average 20+ times a day. I hear your concerns but the waiver wire?!?
I agree that fergie is probably an addition by subtraction although I genuinely like the guy as a player and if you've ever seen him on 'Be A Player' it would almost make you cry with his desire to be an Oiler.. but Bergeron and Semenov should be in the lineup every night.. I would even like Ulanov up for a look as he doesn't pull the 'dumb' play any more than Ferguson + he hits and blocks shots WAY more.
But why the desire to farm out Isbister? He's actually played more inspired the last few games and he's had some nasty injuries.. all which make it very difficult to get into any kind of 'flow' with your game.. plus he would be surely picked up.
Salo has negative value, unless someone like Slats thinks another change of scenery would do him good. Plus the Oilers have already paid a huge chunk of his salary.. and who do we call up? Big Valley doesn't seem ready for the big show yet.. Better to keep him here and hope he can get over his personal problems and return to his old form. Hell, when me and the wife are fighting I hate going to work and my work doesn't compare to his as far as the spotlight goes.
And with Georges... I wouldn't cry if he was traded tomorrow as he is just not doing his job.. but if one is going to simply put him on waivers lowe should have his head examined. He's a player that has value weather we're exasperated with his play or not. This team needs help now with a player that can step in and breathe some fresh air into the dressing room IMO... Lowe hopefully was doing some thinking over the holiday season but I sure hope it doesn't involve the waiver wire.

-Happy new year!
-Takko

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12-27-2003, 08:30 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakkoTime
I'll start out by saying that I generally enjoy your posts and although I don't necessarily post a lot I read the site on average 20+ times a day. I hear your concerns but the waiver wire?!?

-Takko
Geez, yeah, I should have mentioned that. I don't mean put them on waivers and let them through, I mean put them on waivers and then pull them back, leading to a deal. I'm sure they can do that (do it all the time in baseball, and I think they do it in the NHL too), and just looking around the league, maybe a team like Washington would have an interest in Ferguson. Or Ottawa with BG.

But absloutely none of these guys should be given up for nothing.


WINDOWLICKER: Great name, btw. I agree Salo has been loyal, but from what we have come to know this guy may need a fresh start.

Mamett: As for Isbister, yeah I've seen him. He has played better, but so far this season he's looked on ten cents on the dollar for what he was traded for (Niinimaa). Thank God Torres was included in the deal.

Maybe it was just build up, but I understood he was a budding power forward who was on a team that couldn't get everything out of him (sort of like Eric Brewer). Based on the Islanders past it seemed reasonable. But watching him is so frustrating!

Isbister is in heavy traffic about 10% of the time Mike York is in heavy traffic. What does that tell us?

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12-27-2003, 08:31 AM
  #6
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Mamettt- While I agree that Izzy has been good at times and doesn't warrant being waived, you gotta admit he's been a disappointment. Some games he shows you stuff that makes you think of the player that he could become if he wanted to. But then he goes back to barley being visible. Scoring chances may not come every game but you can hit and work hard every game. Unfortunately Izzy doesn't do that every game.

And Izzy as gritty as Moreau? If he had half the heart as Moreau the Isles would've never traded him. I hope he finds that heart but I don't know if he ever will.

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12-27-2003, 09:12 AM
  #7
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i admit isbister has been a disappointment this year, at times he teases us with that power forward instinct, but for the most part i see the guy easily pushed off the puck. he barely even registers a mean streak that most power forwards have. overall he has been lackluster which applies to most of the oilers forwards as well.
i would definitely say that fergusons days as an oiler should be coming to an end. semenov and bergeron have clearly passed him on the depth chart and no offense to the guy but he has been really bad as of late.

as to the loyalty questions, cmon if both salo and ferguson are not performing then it is time to move on.

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12-27-2003, 09:29 AM
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This desire to replace Ferguson with Ulanov is one of the most mystifying things I have ever heard tell of.

Ferguson has been a no. 6th defenseman on a team (the Oilers) that has hit 90+ points consistently during his tenure.

Ulanov has been a pressbox scratch on a team (the Panthers) that has regularily competed for the worst defensive record in the league during his tenure.

Heck, why don't we replace Cross with Lance Pitlick while we're at it???

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12-27-2003, 09:35 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraque27
This desire to replace Ferguson with Ulanov is one of the most mystifying things I have ever heard tell of.

Ferguson has been a no. 6th defenseman on a team (the Oilers) that has hit 90+ points consistently during his tenure.

Ulanov has been a pressbox scratch on a team (the Panthers) that has regularily competed for the worst defensive record in the league during his tenure.

Heck, why don't we replace Cross with Lance Pitlick while we're at it???
I think Allen is the first guy on the callup list for Dmen this season. He's been up once already this year, and hasn't done anything to change his status (I don't think).

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12-27-2003, 09:50 AM
  #10
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i agree with some of your points laraque but you cannot tell me that bergeron and semenov are not higher up on the depth chart.

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12-27-2003, 10:13 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
If Kevin Lowe spent any time taking a long look at his roster over Christmas (hopefully he didn't take a laminated wallet sized roster to church) , there are several guys who could or should hit the waiver wire if the slide continues.

Salo Probably no takers, but you never know. Maybe the Oilers can get out from under the contract that still has around 2 million left on it.

Isbister What a disappointment. He has shown exactly one power move since arriving, and doesn't even do that now. Bitter disappointment.

Ferguson Solid role guy, always liked him. However, two things have happened this season. The Oilers found another guy (Bergeron) who is capable of playing at a higher level than Ferguson. Also, Ferguson makes the simple play less and less, which is somewhat mysterious since that is what got him the job and kept him here. There are teams that could use Ferguson, so put him on waivers and see who makes a claim.

Georges Laraque Similar to Ferguson in that he seems to have forgotten what got him here. He keeps telling the media he's pushing to score a goal. WHY? I'll tell you something: it's really distressing to read your hammer talk about scoring his first goal of the season in December when you shouldn't give sweet f.a. about it. Are you telling me Dave Brown worried about scoring? Yeah, right.


Agree? Disagree?

I think putting Salo on waivers would be good but I really don't think he would be taken.

Ferguson: he took some really awful penalties in last year's playoffs that really killed us. Now we have Ulanov in Toronto...

Strangely enough though I am a fan of Izzy and would like them to keep him.

I truly think Izzy and Georges are relatable in their situations here. In 2002 Lowe said they thought Georges was ready to move into a 3rd liner role, even though he had never really proven it, and thus he moved Mike Grier for 2 draft picks in 2002. We lost Grier's size, leadership and immense physical play. Georges never really did become that 3rd liner though.

Lowe thought we needed to get bigger and at last years trade deadline traded for Izzy... Izzy has scored 20 goals once in his career in 1999-2000. Grier scored 20 goals twice in his career.

It looks like Lowe traded size to give Georges a shot and then when it didn't pan out he overpaid for size with Niinimaa.

The thing that I don't get is that Izzy makes more than Grier at 1.95 million - Grier makes 1.632 million.

I don't understand Lowe anymore, he makes moves that look like downgrades now. Carter, Niinimaa, Marchant (?), and now Comrie... even at the draft he traded down 17th to 22nd. (PARISE)


What do you think?

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12-27-2003, 10:35 AM
  #12
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In defense of isbister

I agree that isbister has been a dissapointment this year in that he hasn't produced offensively. However, we should remember a couple of things. First, he's been injured a number of times this year, and that makes it hard for any player to find a groove, none the less one that is trying to find his spot on a new team. Second, he has not been given consistent ice time or linemates, further compounding the problem.

Thirdly, and most importantly, when he has been healthy, at the very least I think we can say that he hasn't hurt this team. Unlike laraque, who doesn't do his job as enforcer, or salo, who has let in some very bad goals, or our defense, who make some silly choices with the puck, I don't feel isbister has appreciably been a negative to this team over this half season. At times, he's been a positive in a number of areas. Size and strength along the boards are something isbister brings, as well as decent defensive abilility and good physical play. Over the last few weeks he has been one of the few oiler players to show signs of life on the forecheck and with his physical play. For a team that routinely looses battle along the boards, and that is continually undersized, he ( along with smyth, torres, moreau, and york) is one of the few forwards who are really strong at cycling down low. If we have given laraque 200+ games to become the player he could be, if we have extended the torch of forgiveness to brewer, reasoner, and semenov when they've struggled, and in a season where we've put up with far less from people who are supposed to contribute far more(brewer, salo) I find it hypocritical to call isbister out now.

The hype, some of which came from Lowe himself, is partially to blame for the harsh reactions that some have torwards him, but we cannot let our judgements be affected by it. Talk to any knowledgable islander fan and they'll tell you that the isbister-bertuzzi comparisons were always mroe than a little off. Isbister, while possesing the size and speed, never had the vision, hands, or scoring touch that bertuzzi possess. I look at isbister and see a bigger version of ryan smyth, a guy who can give you 50-60 points a year at his peak with good physical play, leadership, and intensity. Think of how bobby holik plays and the point totals he gets, and that's what I think we can expect from isbister. 50-60 points a year with good defense, boardwork, and physicality. Would I like it if he had holik's nasty streak? Yes, but he does play physical and he does get his nose dirty. The scoring hasn't come, and at times he hasn't been as physical as he could be, but he's still a lot more physical than most oiler forwards, and a lot better along the boards as well. He needs to get even nastier, even into higher traffic, and even more intense. But if we look at him with those expectations, and not the 90+ points bertuzzi ones, I think we can see that it's not time to give up on him yet. He can become a solid 50 point a year winger with size. And even if the worst case scenario does happen, and he never progresses from his current situation(a big winger who is semi intense and physical but can't finish), this team still has much bigger problems on it's hands than him. He still doesn't really hurt the team, but serves his role as a third liner. If he doesn't progress, than we can deal with his large salary by trading or not re-upping him. But that's worst case scenario, something I don't think will happen.

At the very least, both fans and management should give him the rest of the season in a meaningful way. Let's hope that mac-t understands that he has to have proper ice time(15 minutes a night) and steady linemates, and let's realize that we have far bigger problems than to rag on isbister(finding a first line, finding a number one goalie, finding a #1/2 defensemen, finding a pp and a pk). A productive isbister can help solve some of those problems, but he's just one piece in a very large puzzle, and one which deserves exactly the same credit we've extended everybody else. And in that extension, waiving him because he's been injured or bounced around the lineup, while not lighting it up but still playing physical, playing strong on the forecheck, and providing size in the lineup, is not the right way to go.


Last edited by mamettt: 12-27-2003 at 10:46 AM.
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Old
12-27-2003, 02:07 PM
  #13
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I don't agree with any of them...Salo as said above is class, stayed here for less money and frankly when he's in net our team seems to play like absolute horse ****, why I don't know.

Isbister has played pretty well in my eyes since coming back from injury and has been one of our best in this long long long slump.

Ferguson is a solid 6th/7th defender...what happens when one of our guys go down with injury, we don't have many D down in the prospects system that look really bright right now. If Woywitka can step up and deliver the good, Fergy will be gone most likely.

Laraque is one that I might consider, but would rather try and motivate the big guy by benching him a couple games or something like that, cause when BigG is on his game its awesome.

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12-27-2003, 02:34 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Salo Probably no takers, but you never know. Maybe the Oilers can get out from under the contract that still has around 2 million left on it.
Unfortunately, Salo's personal woes continue to affect his play. I don't think it's a matter of him losing his capabilities as a no. 1 starter in this league, but this problem of his off-ice is taking its toll on him. He will not be resigned, and we would be lucky if any team takes a flyer on him after this year. That being said, I feel for the guy. I also do not believe, unlike alot of optimistic fans here, that Conklin has it in him to be a starter. Certainly not this season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Isbister What a disappointment. He has shown exactly one power move since arriving, and doesn't even do that now. Bitter disappointment.
Yup, quite disappointed with this guy. However, I have to say I think personally that he has been showing more consistent flashes of late i.e. driving to the net, strong work along the boards, creating chances for himself and his linemates. Again, though, he's not shown enough consistency. That, and he is brittle. I wouldn't give up on him yet though, lowetide, particularly because he is one of the biggest forwards we have and if we make the playoffs (hey, don't roll your eyes at me like that!) we will need his presence up front and down low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Ferguson Solid role guy, always liked him. However, two things have happened this season. The Oilers found another guy (Bergeron) who is capable of playing at a higher level than Ferguson. Also, Ferguson makes the simple play less and less, which is somewhat mysterious since that is what got him the job and kept him here. There are teams that could use Ferguson, so put him on waivers and see who makes a claim.
Ferguson's time is up, alright. He has been a good soldier for us, but Bergeron has better mobility, much higher offensive upside and is younger. We lose on the physical play but Ferguson is not going to scare anyone as it is. Bergeron still commits too many mistakes, but with experience he will hopefully stop the glaring errors and settle down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Georges Laraque Similar to Ferguson in that he seems to have forgotten what got him here. He keeps telling the media he's pushing to score a goal. WHY? I'll tell you something: it's really distressing to read your hammer talk about scoring his first goal of the season in December when you shouldn't give sweet f.a. about it. Are you telling me Dave Brown worried about scoring? Yeah, right.
Gee, everyone else including Kevin Lowe has said Georges needs to play with more intensity and assume a more proactive role as an intimidating force out on the ice, and Laraque himself thinks he needs to contribute more on the offensive side . WAKE UP GEORGES!!! You are showing strong symptoms of Louie Debrusk syndrome...you have completely forgotten your damn role in the lineup. 10 goals by the end of the year, he told the Journal guys to write it down. Man oh man...I digress however. Yeah, he could go on waivers but I think he could actually fetch something i.e. mid round draft pick or two. Why let him go for nothing?

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12-27-2003, 08:52 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Geez, yeah, I should have mentioned that. I don't mean put them on waivers and let them through, I mean put them on waivers and then pull them back, leading to a deal. I'm sure they can do that (do it all the time in baseball, and I think they do it in the NHL too), and just looking around the league, maybe a team like Washington would have an interest in Ferguson. Or Ottawa with BG.
Nope.

Once you put a player on waivers, they have 2 days (if memory serves me correctly) to clear. If they are claimed in those 2 days, they are gone. There is no pulling them back.

The one thing you might have going for you though, is that the higher the salary, the higher the waiver transfer fee... which may scare some teams.

But if you put a player on waivers you can't take him off... he needs to clear them.

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12-28-2003, 04:28 AM
  #16
Lowetide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Nope.

Once you put a player on waivers, they have 2 days (if memory serves me correctly) to clear. If they are claimed in those 2 days, they are gone. There is no pulling them back.

The one thing you might have going for you though, is that the higher the salary, the higher the waiver transfer fee... which may scare some teams.

But if you put a player on waivers you can't take him off... he needs to clear them.

I didn't know that, dawgbone, thanks.

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12-28-2003, 07:02 AM
  #17
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so does izzy still stay on your list Lowetide after yesterday's game? or are you going to wait for tonight to pass final judgement

personally off the list only ferguson. salo looks like it could be one of a health/mental problem and not skill loss. as for izzy i agree with mammett, and for laraque only if he cant improve after a few 10game sitouts like someone suggested.

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