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World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

2014 - U.S. Roster Discussion (Part II)

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Old
04-06-2013, 12:48 AM
  #26
Cory Trevor
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Originally Posted by Kherron View Post
There needs to be more Stepan love. The dude is killing it and is tied 5th in points for Americans. He has a history of playing well internationally too.
He's done nothing but guarantee himself an invite. I hope he goes on a tear the rest of the year and starts hot next season.


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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Very much so. Stepan and Saad are heating up.
Saad's playing so well but do you think maybe it's a product of playing with Toews and usually Hossa? I mean it doesn't matter for Sochi because if he does come, he will be playing with high end talent however I'd like to see him with Kane, to see how he does on the opposite side. Would bode well for our team though Quenneville won't bother, not with the Saad Toews Hossa line right now.

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04-06-2013, 02:39 AM
  #27
William H Bonney
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Stepan has definitely stepped up and put himself very much in play for the team (not that he already wasn't). He's a solid two-way center that hopefully is starting to find the offensive consistency he was lacking in his young career. His skating has improved and he's made drastic improvements in the face-off circle, although he still has a ways to go there as well.

Given that it's highly likely that Team USA will take 5 natural centers (as they did in 2010), I can't see Stepan not being on the team at this stage or in 2014 unless he regresses or USAH doesn't opt for an extra center.

In 2010 it was Backes that didn't take face-offs and played wing. Given that the other likely center candidates (Kesler, Pavelski, Stastny, Backes) are all better on the dot than Stepan, I could see him sliding in on wing.

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04-06-2013, 03:10 AM
  #28
William H Bonney
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My updated Team USA:

Forwards (x13):

Zach Parise - Paul Stastny - Bobby Ryan
Max Pacioretty - Joe Pavelski - Patrick Kane
Derek Stepan - Ryan Kesler - Phil Kessel
Ryan Callahan - David Backes - Dustin Brown
T.J. Oshie

Defense (x7):

Ryan Suter - Justin Faulk
Ryan McDonagh - Keith Yandle
Jack Johnson - Paul Martin
Zach Bogosian

Goalies (x3):

Ryan Miller
Jon Quick
Cory Schneider

Notes:

- I'm pretty comfortable with my top 12 forwards all being there if the team were chosen now. I went with a more versatile player in Oshie for the 13th forward spot versus inconsistent or young players (Wheeler, van Riemsdyk, Saad, Wilson, Galchenyuk). Lots of young talent in play though so a lot will probably change between now and Sochi.

- I'm also comfortable with my Top 6 d-men as well, although Faulk is probably the only partial prediction. Suter and McDonagh are locks. Johnson is probably a lock as well, instead of right in the mix with others, due to his dedication to USAH. Yandle's game is suited for the big ice and Martin will take the veteran, two-way role occupied by Rafalski in 2010. I like Bogosian because he's still trending upward but more so because he never gives anything less than full effort - in a short tournament that's a key. But other guys like Byfuglien, Shattenkirk, Orpik, Carlson, E. Johnson, Leddy, Fowler, etc. can/will be in play.

- Goalies will just depend on who's playing well at tournament time. Miller is struggling because he's probably sick of playing for Buffalo. Quick is struggling because he had a lengthy recovery from back surgery. And Schneider is playing fantastic but is the least experienced. Should be fun to watch them all battle.

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04-06-2013, 02:39 PM
  #29
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
yes most Americans do not care about this tournament, but sometimes it isnt as clear as the best 7 dmen or best 13 forwards...sometimes there are a few players right with each other in the final selections for certain positions and I wish USA Hockey would start tracking the declines and the acceptions for the WC as the be all tie breaker.

If you answer the call more than the other guy for a tournament that isnt in the spotlight and is for love of country, you should get the nod over that other guy that has declined.. hands down. that is the way USA Hockey should be talking "we will not forget those that said no thanks, rather bake brownies during the WCs",,,even our star players need to answer the bell outside of when it suits them. give me a team full of players that want to represent their country, even dream about it, over a team of all-stars...didnt Herb Brooks teach us and you that 30 years ago???
World Championships is meaningless. As a Rangers fan, I would rather my guys resting after a long season as the first step getting ready for the following season. Pretty sure most fans think along those lines, as well. I couldn't tell you how the US did at last year's Worlds, who played, or when the last time they won/medal'd.

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04-06-2013, 10:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
World Championships is meaningless. As a Rangers fan, I would rather my guys resting after a long season as the first step getting ready for the following season. Pretty sure most fans think along those lines, as well. I couldn't tell you how the US did at last year's Worlds, who played, or when the last time they won/medal'd.
Yeah the US has always seen the tournament as a developmental thing, testing all kinds of young players. I remember when Taylor Chorney played in 2008 or 2009.

But, the US is not the whole world as some seem to think in all kinds of contexts. The WC has a long, long history in Europe where the very best long competed for the title, and i believe the tourney was even famous in Canada although everybody there knew it was their best amateurs they sent, or even best amateur team. Since NHL-players were eligible i believe the tourney has risen in peoples minds there and i believe many canadians today has about the same view on it that i have: Not the end of the world, but enjoyable NHL calibre hockey to resort to not the least when your team is out of the playoffs.

The US are extremes in their view on the tourney, not the other way around.

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04-06-2013, 11:24 PM
  #31
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saw this on the ranger board tonight. stepan leads american centers in goals, assists, points, +/-, and TOI this year.

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04-07-2013, 12:01 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
saw this on the ranger board tonight. stepan leads american centers in goals, assists, points, +/-, and TOI this year.
And PP goals, SH goals, and SH points. It's been an absolute pleasure watching him develop into the Rangers #1 C.

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04-07-2013, 09:31 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yeah the US has always seen the tournament as a developmental thing, testing all kinds of young players. I remember when Taylor Chorney played in 2008 or 2009.

But, the US is not the whole world as some seem to think in all kinds of contexts. The WC has a long, long history in Europe where the very best long competed for the title, and i believe the tourney was even famous in Canada although everybody there knew it was their best amateurs they sent, or even best amateur team. Since NHL-players were eligible i believe the tourney has risen in peoples minds there and i believe many canadians today has about the same view on it that i have: Not the end of the world, but enjoyable NHL calibre hockey to resort to not the least when your team is out of the playoffs.

The US are extremes in their view on the tourney, not the other way around.
Never said the US is the whole world. Said the tournament is meaningless in the US. When I look up, this IS a thread about the US Olympic team and my point is past participation in a meaningless tournament shouldn't come into consideration on player selection. Should be the best 13 US forwards, best 7 US dmen and best 3 US goalies. I would hate to see a player left home because they want to reward an inferior player who played in the World Championships. When you are running a tournament when the best league in the world is still playing and that league is not shutting down so all the best players are available, then I can't take the tournament seriously.

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04-07-2013, 06:10 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Never said the US is the whole world. Said the tournament is meaningless in the US. When I look up, this IS a thread about the US Olympic team and my point is past participation in a meaningless tournament shouldn't come into consideration on player selection. Should be the best 13 US forwards, best 7 US dmen and best 3 US goalies. I would hate to see a player left home because they want to reward an inferior player who played in the World Championships. When you are running a tournament when the best league in the world is still playing and that league is not shutting down so all the best players are available, then I can't take the tournament seriously.
I agree with you except for the bolded. I'm ok with them leaving off one of the best players if it's what is in the best interest of USA Hockey, that being a better structured team. If USA Hockey feels that we have a better shot with leaving someone off for the purpose of say, a solid defensive bottom six line, then it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. They had this debate quite a bit about Hockey Canada deciding to pick and choose who they want last time around and ultimately it was for the better.

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04-07-2013, 08:19 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Cory Trevor View Post
I agree with you except for the bolded. I'm ok with them leaving off one of the best players if it's what is in the best interest of USA Hockey, that being a better structured team. If USA Hockey feels that we have a better shot with leaving someone off for the purpose of say, a solid defensive bottom six line, then it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. They had this debate quite a bit about Hockey Canada deciding to pick and choose who they want last time around and ultimately it was for the better.
Good point. Let me re-phrase that to the 23 players that will make the best team and give the US the best chance of winning Gold. Note, when I say best forwards, doesn't necessarily mean only scorers.

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Old
04-08-2013, 05:56 AM
  #36
crazy Kassian
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
My updated Team USA:

Forwards (x13):

Zach Parise - Paul Stastny - Bobby Ryan
Max Pacioretty - Joe Pavelski - Patrick Kane
Derek Stepan - Ryan Kesler - Phil Kessel
Ryan Callahan - David Backes - Dustin Brown
T.J. Oshie

Defense (x7):

Ryan Suter - Justin Faulk
Ryan McDonagh - Keith Yandle
Jack Johnson - Paul Martin
Zach Bogosian

Goalies (x3):

Ryan Miller
Jon Quick
Cory Schneider
Wow. Agree with all the picks in this lineup, don't think I would change a thing.

I think at this moment, Shattenkirk is certainly better than some of those defenseman but this is about predicting the team that the US will assemble.

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04-08-2013, 02:54 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Never said the US is the whole world. Said the tournament is meaningless in the US. When I look up, this IS a thread about the US Olympic team and my point is past participation in a meaningless tournament shouldn't come into consideration on player selection. Should be the best 13 US forwards, best 7 US dmen and best 3 US goalies. I would hate to see a player left home because they want to reward an inferior player who played in the World Championships. When you are running a tournament when the best league in the world is still playing and that league is not shutting down so all the best players are available, then I can't take the tournament seriously.
It's not meaningless, that is the issue.

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Old
04-08-2013, 03:12 PM
  #38
Cory Trevor
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
It's not meaningless, that is the issue.
Exactly. Clearly USA Hockey takes it seriously. Firstly they aren't going there to lose, that's for sure. Secondly, they clearly want to get a look a few players. Though the importance isn't as significant, USA Hockey definitely doesn't scoff at it.

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Old
04-08-2013, 03:16 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Cory Trevor View Post
Exactly. Clearly USA Hockey takes it seriously. Firstly they aren't going there to lose, that's for sure. Secondly, they clearly want to get a look a few players. Though the importance isn't as significant, USA Hockey definitely doesn't scoff at it.
Yeah I'm sure USA hockey is thrilled to be calling guys like JT Brown and Ryan Lasch to represent the team every year when other players say no. There is generally a big enough pool of players to make a pretty competitive team every year, but with so many defections it's difficult. If you don't put the work in for the program, you basically have to be a superstar that the team can't ignore.

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04-08-2013, 06:34 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
It's not meaningless, that is the issue.
Yup. It is a pretty good arena not the least to prove yourself on large ice. If the team goes far you also have the chance to prove some clutch performance for yourself. The opposition is of about NHL-quality, some countries maybe of AHL-level, some others like an NHL-bottom feeder and some like Canada even of NHL-dynasty quality.

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Old
04-09-2013, 09:23 AM
  #41
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I dont see how USA Hockey leaves its current #2 and #3 goal scorers at home for Sochi. I see some rosters that have Oshie on the team, but imo he doesnt offer much more than what Callahan and Brown already bring. I cant recall the last time the US would leave their #2 and #3 goal scorers off of an Olympic team. I am talking about James van Riemsdyk and Blake Wheeler. At the very least, one of them makes this team..no doubt about it.

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04-09-2013, 11:50 PM
  #42
Cory Trevor
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
I dont see how USA Hockey leaves its current #2 and #3 goal scorers at home for Sochi. I see some rosters that have Oshie on the team, but imo he doesnt offer much more than what Callahan and Brown already bring. I cant recall the last time the US would leave their #2 and #3 goal scorers off of an Olympic team. I am talking about James van Riemsdyk and Blake Wheeler. At the very least, one of them makes this team..no doubt about it.
Well the real issue is look at the position they both play. JVR's a wing and so is Wheeler, though in Boston he played a bit of center.

The US is pretty deep on the wings and Callahan and Brown are players that were both there last time around, have had success before with USA Hockey, and are both captains of their team. We don't need the depth scoring and considering the drop of between Callahan/Brown isn't quite that much compared to JVR or Wheeler, Callahan and Brown get the nod. They are both excellent defensively and will play bottom six minutes, as part of a shut down team. Not to mention Callahan's one of the shot blockers and the game as well as being one of the best PKers.

Tack on the fact that they will probably carry five centers on the roster,

The problem is really this

Kane
Kessel
Brown
Patches
Ryan
Parise
Callahan
Brown
Outside chance on Pominville, Oshie more likely


Then you have to fit in at center of shift it around, so...

Pavelski
Stastny
Kesler
Backes
Stepan(a serious candidate to replace Stastny or Pavelski.(Kesler, if unhealthy)

It's just a matter of running out of spots. Ryan, Parise, Patches, Kessel are all better scorers than Wheeler and JVR, and both those guys are primarily scorers. I mean they may be solid two-way players too, to boot, but Callahan put up nearly 30 last year and Brown's always good for 24 goals season and they both can shut guys down on the back end. Put them with, say, Kesler and Backes? A legitimate scoring threat on the third and/or fourth line with Selke caliber or a Selke candidate.

My guess is JVR and Wheeler get an invite, but are going to have go on a tear, through the playoffs and through November next year to at least be carried as the 13th forward.

There is however, a silver lining in all of this that is extremely redeeming and pleasing. Some Winnipeg fans are clamoring for Wheeler to get USA Hockey consideration, Leafs fans talking up JVR(though admittedly streaky), and Habs fans for Galchenyuk to get an automatic invite to camp. That's three tough Canadian markets, and all of those guys are succeeding, which says something about how they handle pressure. Maybe that counts for something. Who knows? It wouldn't shock me to see JVR there and/or Wheeler as the 13th, just because on a larger surface, their chances for success IMO increase.

The REAL silver lining I was referring to? In all honesty, this is the first time I can say that U.S. has an embarrassment of riches and can claim to be leaving off players due to roster limitation. I've never seen that, even last time around. Though we carried Langenbrunner, Malone, and the like, as part of the leadership core. This time around, we have at least a dozen locks for returners from Vancouver and unlimited line combinations with versatile forwards, mobile DMen, and arguably the best goaltending crop of any nation.

Can't wait for next year.

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Old
04-10-2013, 02:16 AM
  #43
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Galchenyuk now 6th among US centers... I know it will be a risk (he's still going to be 19 (just turning 20) when the Olympics starts), but this is US' chance to have an potentially game changer at the center position.

He's also tied for third in ES pts (19). Only Stepan (21) and Cullen (22) are better.

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04-10-2013, 01:35 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by crazy Kassian View Post
Wow. Agree with all the picks in this lineup, don't think I would change a thing.

I think at this moment, Shattenkirk is certainly better than some of those defenseman but this is about predicting the team that the US will assemble.
Paul Stastny has no business being on this team. Kesler - Pavelski - Backes - Stepan are much
better options than that overrated Stastny. Id take Galchenyuk or even Legwand over him.
Stastny did squat in Vancouver to boot. My forwards:

C - Kesler - Pavelski - Backes - Stepan

W - Parise - JVR - Pacioretty - Kane - Kessel - Ryan - Brown - Callahan - Buff (you get singed on D hes there).

Say no to Stastny


Last edited by doakacola*: 04-10-2013 at 01:47 PM.
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Old
04-10-2013, 07:05 PM
  #45
Cory Trevor
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Galchenyuk now 6th among US centers... I know it will be a risk (he's still going to be 19 (just turning 20) when the Olympics starts), but this is US' chance to have an potentially game changer at the center position.

He's also tied for third in ES pts (19). Only Stepan (21) and Cullen (22) are better.
Still way, way too early to say. He's going to have to really elevate his game over the level of Kesler, Pavelski, Stepan, Backes. The one person I'd expect to get left off in the only possibility of Galchenyuk is Patches being left off. He's going to be fighting tooth and nail with Oshie, all the way into camp and I'd see Oshie getting the nod over Gally.

I think he's got a better shot at staying at center instead of being a fifth center playing the wing. Though Gally on open ice is an attractive option, we are heavy heavy heavy at wing. Locks are Backes, Kesler(if healthy) and He'll have to outplay Stepan, Pavelski, or Stastny, just to get consideration. His age will hurt him, I think. Currently Stastny would be easiest of those but Stepan has stepped it up(No pun intended) quite a bit. Then he will have to be better or equal to Pavelski and Stepan because as of right now, Stepan's having a break out year.

This is all moot if the rosters are expanded, in which case I see Oshie a foregone conclusion.

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Old
04-11-2013, 08:13 AM
  #46
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Why dont you guys have Kessel playing center and ditch a guy like Pavelski or Stastny and utilize your supreme depth on the wings. He's played there before.

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04-11-2013, 09:37 AM
  #47
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Why dont you guys have Kessel playing center and ditch a guy like Pavelski or Stastny and utilize your supreme depth on the wings. He's played there before.
Because ditching Pavelski is a bad idea.

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04-11-2013, 10:10 AM
  #48
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Because ditching Pavelski is a bad idea.
I think Stastny is the one who is expendable. I'd go with Kesler, Stepan, Pavelski, and Backes down the middle.

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04-11-2013, 12:43 PM
  #49
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I think Stastny is the one who is expendable. I'd go with Kesler, Stepan, Pavelski, and Backes down the middle.
Assuming Kesler can finally stay healthy, I agree.

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04-11-2013, 12:48 PM
  #50
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Why assume only four natural centers will be chosen?

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