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Has Marc Bergevin made his first mistake as a Habs GM?

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Old
04-07-2013, 09:45 AM
  #76
Watsatheo
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
The fact that our GM promoted 3 defenseman in an effort to assess his internal options, then obtained an NHL ready defenseman by shrewdly taking advantage of a surplus created on another team's roster, all the while ending the season with better draft picks than when the season started, seems to be confusing the **** out of people.
Been a while since the Habs had anyone with an actual plan and foresight.

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04-07-2013, 09:45 AM
  #77
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We do have some depth at the D position...kudos to MB for that...and the kids that came up, did not seem out of place either...

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04-07-2013, 09:49 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
dd is currently on a 47 point pace.
So? The extension hasn't kicked in yet. If he's producing 50 points next year without getting slaughtered defensively, the contract is worth it.

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04-07-2013, 10:43 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
"He didn't make any trades!"

Wrong.

He picked up Ryder AND a 3rd for Cole. Ryder scored the GWG tonight, by the way.

He picked up Halpern for nothing. Team has been next to perfect on the PK, allowing just one goal against during his return.

Drewiske for a 5th? With Emelin down, this trade shows it's worth.

Bourque and Diaz will return soon too, becoming big "acquisitions" if you will.

Marc has done stellar. Perhaps re-signing Cube might be a head scratcher but in that time, guys like Beaulieu and Tinordi can slow-cook in the oven that is the AHL until they are ready -- either middle of next seasons or the one after.

I think we get a better look once the season and playoffs are done. Who does he sign? For how much? Does he bring back Ryder? Extensions?
Could not possibly agree with this more
All the moves/needs were done by deadline day
My guess is if a deal were to pop up MB would've grabbed it.
As it didn't we stood pat and saved the 6 picks in the 1st 90 (best in the league btw)

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04-07-2013, 10:48 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
So? The extension hasn't kicked in yet. If he's producing 50 points next year without getting slaughtered defensively, the contract is worth it.
No sense trying to explain things to people because DD has become the new scapegoat. He's small, french, overpaid, over-termed, weak and Eller is better at everything no matter what. Nothing we say can change their minds on this. No point in even trying.

EDIT:

The thing people need to realize is that DD will be there until both Eller or Galchenyuk show they can take a center spot and do better. It could happen very soon, and then DD will be moved to wing OR he will be traded. MB won't have any troubles finding a taker either. In the meantime, DD isn't costing anyone their spot.


Last edited by Des Louise: 04-07-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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04-07-2013, 10:54 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
At the deadline, Marc Bergevin decided that the habs would stand pat and only made minor dman depth move.

With the habs losing Emelin, we are now short a #4 dman and we will have to start playing our inexperienced young dman big minutes.

This habs team has lots of character and Bergevin has done a fantastic job putting this team together... But should Bergevin have spent a 2nd or 3rd round pick to get a solid #4/ #5 experienced dman for the playoffs?
His acquisitions up to the deadline have been great. I have no problems with them.
We talk about the lose of Emelin and the lack of a quality #4 D to replace him in hindsight but that's really unfair.
What do we do if Pleks gets injured and is out for the year? Do we have someone to take over? (Eller isn't quite ready for that yet.).
What do we do if Price goes down for the year? Budaj is an excellent backup but I wouldn't want to go into the playoffs with him as our goalie.
What happens if Subban goes down?
If Markov goes down?
If Patches goes down?
Etc. etc.
We don't have replacements for them.
Is Bergevin supposed to have made trades to make sure 'Everyone' is covered with a replacement? How was he supposed to have known to make a trade for a D in case Emelin goes down?
The answer is he couldn't even if he wanted too.
What he did was pick up some depth in areas where he saw would need help. And he has done a wonderful job at doing so.
You can only bring in players to strengthen your weakness before the trade deadline and then pray to God that you don't have any major injuries to your main core during the playoffs, not bring in players 'just in case' ANY of your healthy core players get hurt. No one has the resources to have a full replacement lineup for all your important players.

So no, it wasn't a mistake not to bring in a replacement #4 D to replace a healthy (before the deadline) Emelin.

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04-07-2013, 10:58 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
So? The extension hasn't kicked in yet. If he's producing 50 points next year without getting slaughtered defensively, the contract is worth it.
Yes because Desharnais will suddenly develop a defensive game and also be able to win faceoffs and also not get outmuscled on almost every shift.

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04-07-2013, 11:07 AM
  #83
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I am also confused by the DD extension when we have so many centers, but I'm hopeful DD can continue developing. I think he's more interesting to this team as a winger.

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04-07-2013, 11:09 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
I am also confused by the DD extension when we have so many centers, but I'm hopeful DD can continue developing. I think he's more interesting to this team as a winger.
NO! We already have Gallagher and Gionta as wingers. You really want to have another small winger out there?

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04-07-2013, 11:11 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
NO! We already have Gallagher and Gionta as wingers. You really want to have another small winger out there?
I don't care as long they can play and contribute to winning.

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04-07-2013, 11:31 AM
  #86
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I can't think of a single obvious mistake by Bergevin. One gets some perspective by looking at the Bruins game. The Habs didn't collapse after the early departure of Emelin (naturally, every fan gasped in dread) and their up-tempo game compensated for their beef shortage. I look forward to seeing next season's team coalesce. My only sorrow is that Markov is approaching the end of his career because of the cumulative effect of his injuries. Needless to say, Bergevin should extend Ryder's contract.

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Old
04-07-2013, 11:33 AM
  #87
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Some of you need to calm down a bit. Season is almost over and do you still not realize what the source of our success is? Why do you think every young player we've brought up looks at the very least decent? Even fringe players like Blunden look fine. Is this some sort of miracle rookie season year for the Habs? Do you think Therrien is some sort of witch? Emelin not being there is a loss but its nothing this team can't handle. We still play well no matter who's missing. Its how they play together thats important, its their spirit thats important this year. We can finally lose a Markov and still survive.

Bergevin built this team from the staff down to the players this way. Smart gms don't waste assets unless they must. This team is not like the same team we had in past years. Same players but they think and play differently. Nothing fazes them because we have never been more of a "team" then ever before.

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04-07-2013, 11:37 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
I think the Desharnais 4 year contract was a hasty move and possibly another mistake by Bergevin... but there is another thread to discuss that one.

As far as massive premiums, I am speaking of a third, maybe a second round pick... The East is wide open this year and if you have a decent chance to get to a Stanley Cup final you should be a little more aggressive in protecting your defensive depth.
Desharnais and his contract was trade bait.. He had a good year last year, He was given a shot of confidence in his contract and at only around 3 million ( which is bargain )

The move was made to solidify being able to trade him for something ( someone bigger ) down the line if he does end up producing like he did last year.

and whoever was going to trade for him knew they were getting a proven producer with Non established NHL players for 4 years at a bargain price.

It was a great move, still is, and if we do trade him when his value is highest, we look genius.

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04-07-2013, 11:38 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Go Habs Go View Post
Some of you need to calm down a bit. Season is almost over and do you still not realize what the source of our success is? Why do you think every young player we've brought up looks at the very least decent? Even fringe players like Blunden look fine. Is this some sort of miracle rookie season year for the Habs? Do you think Therrien is some sort of witch? Emelin not being there is a loss but its nothing this team can't handle. We still play well no matter who's missing. Its how they play together thats important, its their spirit thats important this year. We can finally lose a Markov and still survive.

Bergevin built this team from the staff down to the players this way. Smart gms don't waste assets unless they must. This team is not like the same team we had in past years. Same players but they think and play differently. Nothing fazes them because we have never been more of a "team" then ever before.
99% correct.

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04-07-2013, 11:39 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
I am also confused by the DD extension when we have so many centers, but I'm hopeful DD can continue developing. I think he's more interesting to this team as a winger.
Yea a right winger who plays criss cross with his linemates.

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04-07-2013, 11:41 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
His acquisitions up to the deadline have been great. I have no problems with them.
We talk about the lose of Emelin and the lack of a quality #4 D to replace him in hindsight but that's really unfair.
What do we do if Pleks gets injured and is out for the year? Do we have someone to take over? (Eller isn't quite ready for that yet.).
What do we do if Price goes down for the year? Budaj is an excellent backup but I wouldn't want to go into the playoffs with him as our goalie.
What happens if Subban goes down?
If Markov goes down?
If Patches goes down?
Etc. etc.
We don't have replacements for them.
Is Bergevin supposed to have made trades to make sure 'Everyone' is covered with a replacement? How was he supposed to have known to make a trade for a D in case Emelin goes down?
The answer is he couldn't even if he wanted too.
What he did was pick up some depth in areas where he saw would need help. And he has done a wonderful job at doing so.
You can only bring in players to strengthen your weakness before the trade deadline and then pray to God that you don't have any major injuries to your main core during the playoffs, not bring in players 'just in case' ANY of your healthy core players get hurt. No one has the resources to have a full replacement lineup for all your important players.

So no, it wasn't a mistake not to bring in a replacement #4 D to replace a healthy (before the deadline) Emelin.
So what your saying is that if everyone on the team dies in a plane accident, Marc berg didn't make enough moves to ensure we have a back up team?? lol


Oh and Eller plays WAY better against Higher offensively skilled lines on other teams.

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04-07-2013, 12:16 PM
  #92
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Been a while since the Habs had anyone with an actual plan and foresight.
Get a strong feeling that MB gets it. Hard to look negatively at any of his decisions so far.

I have always said that people would not fully realize what a trainwreck the Gainey/Gauthier management team was until they witnessed truly good management getting good results. Methinks that time is now.

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04-07-2013, 12:20 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
NO! We already have Gallagher and Gionta as wingers. You really want to have another small winger out there?
Gionta?
Really?

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04-07-2013, 12:21 PM
  #94
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Yes because Desharnais will suddenly develop a defensive game and also be able to win faceoffs and also not get outmuscled on almost every shift.
If winning faceoffs is THAT important, then Eller/Galchenyuk won't take DD's spot at center.

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04-07-2013, 12:28 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Forgedias View Post
I'm going to chip in here because I think people need to understand and listen to what Marc Bergevin has said all along. He is building for the future for many years to come. I think most of you heard that when he had his news conference at the trade deadline. Those draft picks are precious and he isn't willing to mortgage the club's future by trading them for rentals.

We all know how deep and franchise changing this draft will be. There are already several players we can deem as superstars in the 2013 draft. Last years draft we can't even say that, with Yakupov only doing ok and Galchenyuk having a good year, but probably will not win the Calder. Maybe this might change in the 10 games left, but its safe to say either Huberdeau or maybe Gallagher will win the Calder.

But the 2013 draft is so deep that we are more then likely to see over 40 players that have 1st round grades come into that draft. And with Montreal holding Calgary's 2nd round draft pick, its really another 1st if you consider how badly Calgary is tanking right now. With so many skilled players and players like Droin, Jones, Barkov, Nichushkin and maybe Mckinnon potentially having the superstar tag on them. 2013 is shaping up to be a year where prospects can change the fortunes of a franchise around. There hasn't been a draft this deep and this potentially important in a decade. Bergevin was smart to keep all his high draft picks, he has 4 draft picks in the first 2 rounds, and 6 for the top 90 players. All of these picks can be potentially number one picks since we know from past experience teams will pick quite frequently draft for either need or potential and let round one graded players drop.

For me, this draft is just too important, more important then getting Montreal into the playoffs, because this draft can solidify Montreal for years to come. So I am happy Bergevin didn't get swayed by the public and fork over high draft picks for rentals, because if Pittsburgh was willing to forgo 2 second rounders for a player like Murray, then you know it was going to be expensive to get rentals for the playoffs.

Back to the quote on top, I may be in the minority here, but I think Bergevin did the smart thing when he kept to his guns and got Subban signed to a bridge contract, Many of you are figuring that to resign Subban, its going to cost us even more. I agree it will cost us more. But your forgetting that as an organization Montreal has to show their players that they want them to prove that they are not a one year wonder and should be rewarded for that. How much is the Sabres regretting that ridiculous contract they gave to Tyler Myers. His 6million or so contract is becoming an albatross for their organization. Myers had a great year playing his entry level contract and they rewarded him for that with a massive contract and his play has never returned to those levels after that.

Montreal in turn has rewarded Carey Price and Pacioretty with long term deals that pay them what they deserve. Plekanac as well. Could we have gotten Subban cheaper? Sure, but these bridge contracts help both sides. I think everyone here believes Subban was going to be worth at least 5million and we would of been happy if Subban got that, but Montreal also needs to stabilize their cap. They can't keep rewarding their prospects with big contracts everytime their entry deal is over. That bridge contract is key to Montreal because they have more wiggle room to work out the long term contracts from their older veteran players. Those two years is very helpful in managing their cap situation. Remember our Cap for next year will be around 60million, but the 2015 year, many of our long term contracts with players like Gionta and Markov will be over. In fact we will clear 40million off our cap in 2015. Managing your cap is vital if Montreal is going to stay competitive. 2015 is also the year that Subban will be extended and it will be no surprise to any of us that he will be rewarded. In fact lets just say he will take over Markov's 5.75million cap hit from then on. He will be well worth this.

Looking at what Bergevin has already done this season, he really has knocked it out of the park. He started with the Stellar draft with the pick up of Galchenyuk, hired Michel Therrien which many of us questioned but turned out to be one of the better hires for Montreal in a long time. Traded for Micheal Ryder and traded away an underperforming player in Cole. And picked up Drewskie who is looking like an awesome pick up with Emelin's injury. Drewskie played 23minutes and played very tough agains the Bruins.

My only question mark was signing David Desharnais to a 4year extension. That surprised me, not extending Desharnais, but giving him 4 years. He's an exploitation forward and needs snipers on his wings to be effective. He isn't a top centerman that can play both ends of the rink. He gets exposed when he has to defend against a top line as we saw against the 7-6 loss to Pittsburgh.

In final, for me it doesn't matter how well Montreal does in the playoffs this year. I know that sounds sacrilegious, but for me, its this upcoming draft that is so important. This draft if Bergevin can do his homework will forever change Montreal for many years to come. The 2012-2013 drafts will be franchise changing drafts for Montreal. And that has got me excited like I haven't been for a very long time.
One of the best posts I have read in a long time.A very well thought out writeup. People need more patience , this isn't a video game where you go for it every year.
I want to see MB build up depth and develop players and not rush draft picks. I look forward to the draft,should be exciting to watch MB make any moves .... hoping he can add another pick or two(Weber?)

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04-07-2013, 12:40 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Forgedias View Post
I'm going to chip in here because I think people need to understand and listen to what Marc Bergevin has said all along. He is building for the future for many years to come. I think most of you heard that when he had his news conference at the trade deadline. Those draft picks are precious and he isn't willing to mortgage the club's future by trading them for rentals.

We all know how deep and franchise changing this draft will be. There are already several players we can deem as superstars in the 2013 draft. Last years draft we can't even say that, with Yakupov only doing ok and Galchenyuk having a good year, but probably will not win the Calder. Maybe this might change in the 10 games left, but its safe to say either Huberdeau or maybe Gallagher will win the Calder.

But the 2013 draft is so deep that we are more then likely to see over 40 players that have 1st round grades come into that draft. And with Montreal holding Calgary's 2nd round draft pick, its really another 1st if you consider how badly Calgary is tanking right now. With so many skilled players and players like Droin, Jones, Barkov, Nichushkin and maybe Mckinnon potentially having the superstar tag on them. 2013 is shaping up to be a year where prospects can change the fortunes of a franchise around. There hasn't been a draft this deep and this potentially important in a decade. Bergevin was smart to keep all his high draft picks, he has 4 draft picks in the first 2 rounds, and 6 for the top 90 players. All of these picks can be potentially number one picks since we know from past experience teams will pick quite frequently draft for either need or potential and let round one graded players drop.

For me, this draft is just too important, more important then getting Montreal into the playoffs, because this draft can solidify Montreal for years to come. So I am happy Bergevin didn't get swayed by the public and fork over high draft picks for rentals, because if Pittsburgh was willing to forgo 2 second rounders for a player like Murray, then you know it was going to be expensive to get rentals for the playoffs.

Back to the quote on top, I may be in the minority here, but I think Bergevin did the smart thing when he kept to his guns and got Subban signed to a bridge contract, Many of you are figuring that to resign Subban, its going to cost us even more. I agree it will cost us more. But your forgetting that as an organization Montreal has to show their players that they want them to prove that they are not a one year wonder and should be rewarded for that. How much is the Sabres regretting that ridiculous contract they gave to Tyler Myers. His 6million or so contract is becoming an albatross for their organization. Myers had a great year playing his entry level contract and they rewarded him for that with a massive contract and his play has never returned to those levels after that.

Montreal in turn has rewarded Carey Price and Pacioretty with long term deals that pay them what they deserve. Plekanac as well. Could we have gotten Subban cheaper? Sure, but these bridge contracts help both sides. I think everyone here believes Subban was going to be worth at least 5million and we would of been happy if Subban got that, but Montreal also needs to stabilize their cap. They can't keep rewarding their prospects with big contracts everytime their entry deal is over. That bridge contract is key to Montreal because they have more wiggle room to work out the long term contracts from their older veteran players. Those two years is very helpful in managing their cap situation. Remember our Cap for next year will be around 60million, but the 2015 year, many of our long term contracts with players like Gionta and Markov will be over. In fact we will clear 40million off our cap in 2015. Managing your cap is vital if Montreal is going to stay competitive. 2015 is also the year that Subban will be extended and it will be no surprise to any of us that he will be rewarded. In fact lets just say he will take over Markov's 5.75million cap hit from then on. He will be well worth this.

Looking at what Bergevin has already done this season, he really has knocked it out of the park. He started with the Stellar draft with the pick up of Galchenyuk, hired Michel Therrien which many of us questioned but turned out to be one of the better hires for Montreal in a long time. Traded for Micheal Ryder and traded away an underperforming player in Cole. And picked up Drewskie who is looking like an awesome pick up with Emelin's injury. Drewskie played 23minutes and played very tough agains the Bruins.

My only question mark was signing David Desharnais to a 4year extension. That surprised me, not extending Desharnais, but giving him 4 years. He's an exploitation forward and needs snipers on his wings to be effective. He isn't a top centerman that can play both ends of the rink. He gets exposed when he has to defend against a top line as we saw against the 7-6 loss to Pittsburgh.

In final, for me it doesn't matter how well Montreal does in the playoffs this year. I know that sounds sacrilegious, but for me, its this upcoming draft that is so important. This draft if Bergevin can do his homework will forever change Montreal for many years to come. The 2012-2013 drafts will be franchise changing drafts for Montreal. And that has got me excited like I haven't been for a very long time.
Very nice well thought out post, I agree with most of it. PK's contract is a good one, people bi*ch and moan, but it is exactly what the org. needed. He will get his pay day and I don't begrudge him at all.

I think the DD contract is alright in that it looks good to a trading partner, not saying he will be, but it makes it easier. He is a very useful player but I can't see a team winning a cup with him at center.

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04-07-2013, 12:42 PM
  #97
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Kaberle will be back. He wasn't that bad this year.

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04-07-2013, 12:46 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
If winning faceoffs is THAT important, then Eller/Galchenyuk won't take DD's spot at center.
We should sign Yannick Perreault and put him between John Scott (6'8) and Brian Boyle (6'7)... that is a potential marvelous first line. Fight+faceoff+Size=Stanley Cup.

That being said, did Bergevin make a mistake ? We'll see. I think it's too early to tell. We should have probably traded for a top-4 d-man. But I don't know if the price would have been right. What if we traded a lot for Derek Morris and we loose in the first round. All is projection and guessing. You have two choices, trade two second round picks and go the safe way or keep them and give experience to young players with good potential. Bergevin did go the second way, probably the riskier at short term, but likely the best for the long term.

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04-07-2013, 12:57 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
I think the Desharnais 4 year contract was a hasty move and possibly another mistake by Bergevin... but there is another thread to discuss that one.

As far as massive premiums, I am speaking of a third, maybe a second round pick... The East is wide open this year and if you have a decent chance to get to a Stanley Cup final you should be a little more aggressive in protecting your defensive depth.
Maybe it was a bit hasty to give DD an extension that early, however, 4years at 3.5M is nothing crazy. If DD scores 60pts again, 3.5M is seriously cheap.
Only time will tell however. He's struggling this year, but it's not uncommon for players to go through struggling years.

Bergevin's only mistake is the bridge deal to PK. We should have locked him up long term at a reasonable price.

Not moving at the deadline was the right move. Drewiske was a great pick up too.

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04-07-2013, 01:00 PM
  #100
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Kaberle will be back. He wasn't that bad this year.
At 4.25M not sure if he will be back...

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