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Old
04-06-2013, 11:26 PM
  #26
MidnightRanger
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The fact some here want trade homegrown prospects for picks just to be entertained during draft day is ludicrous. And boy am I glad they are not running this team. I have since given up at what the Rangers will do because you just never know. And I know the Rangers don't trade good players like Staal or Girardi for picks. They do it for players that can help as well as a prospect that they usually steal. IMO in the latest trade that player is John Moore. Having said that, no matter how good a stay at home D Staal is Carolina is not trading a top 10 pick for him.

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04-06-2013, 11:33 PM
  #27
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John Moore for the 15th overall pick.

Draft Curtis Lazar.

Profit.

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Old
04-07-2013, 06:17 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by snipeit View Post
Not a fan of trading Staal, would hate it tbo.

I think its a better idea of move Girardi even though we lack a right handed shot om the blue line even more. Girardi is a warrior and a iron man but Staal is both younger and the better player of them two.
At this juncture I have no concrete suggestion on trading either Staal or Girardi, neither or both (consider enhanced value as a L-R package deal). The idea was to ask now that the post trade dust has settled, and the trade order is starting to roughly shape up, what returns do we get, whether they are prospects, vets or other assets (picks) that make a deal worthwhile.

This may shock people who have seen me ahead of the curve suggest Girardi as the most moveable of our top (despite he being the only R). But I remain consistent. No sacred cows. But also, no coke for pepsi, no deal just to make a deal. Only move talent, esp. top talent, if the return is worthwhile.

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04-07-2013, 06:27 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
This team is going to need to add to its scoring, likely at the price of a defenseman. I would advise proposing a Staal for Skinner deal, had Skinner done a bit better as of late.

Going into next season, we are going to need another gun offensively. I'm not sure Zuccarello is the answer, to be honest.
S for S. This has been bandied about before. I invite suggestions for a core (presumably this is not a 1 for 1), which every variation of that core, we can all chime in and see if we can refine til we get the best possible variation.

Zuc. I would love for him to succeed; would mean producing (scoring) asset without paying cost to acquire. However, 2 things he must overcome: can he play good enough D on stronger, bigger NHL sized opponents, getting taller by the day? And we agree he has moves, but does he have enough talent to have enough speed to create the separation to make enough scoring threats without he himself being shut down? This was the issue the last time around, and while technique can be improved somewhat, I don't believe he has the natural wheels to explode with bursts as necessary to do this. He certainly hasn't shown it.

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04-07-2013, 06:31 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BroadwayStorm View Post
This thread is laughable. Let's trade a good prospect for a pick to choose another prospect we don't have. Let's trade Staal and Girardi too. For picks and young players that may add scoring.
Your premise applies only to the extent it assumes we are all incapable of coming up with any deals which would return an acceptably worthwhile profit to us.

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04-07-2013, 06:33 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Yeah, I agree. I'd trade Girardi out of him, Staal, McD and MDZ every single time. Staal, McD and MDZ should be the core of the D. Girardi is very nice back there now and he's been nothing but steady for NYR over his career, but he's the most expendable of the four in my opinion and that's not a knock on him so much as it's a complement to the other three guys. I really feel that having Staal and McDonagh at once is a tremendous advantage and we should hold on to the two of them as long as is possible. Having said that, I have no idea how much Girardi would be worth or who would take his spot.
Partly why I started this thread.
Please post again if such an idea comes to mind.

Support the competition of ideas.

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04-07-2013, 06:34 AM
  #32
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I've said it before and have made it very clear that I think Staal is very over rated. This is he second time he is out and NYR still seems to prosper with out him. It is very obvious. In a deep draft like this,you package him cause he will grab you a 1st rounder and then maybe make another move for a second.

McD,Girardi,DelZ,Moore,Stralman, top 5 is mint. With McIlrath possibly up and coming. Skjei a strong possibility in the next ,lets says 2-3 years. NYR is set and deep enough in D depth. I'd like to see NYR also acquire an Erskine type D man. Tough and nasty.

Sorry to say it but Staal is expendable. I think it's more a fact .

everyone seems to just love Staal for one,he's a Staal and 2 he was one of the first pieces mainly on the backend Rangers used when they started a rebuild,so people seem to have a soft spot for him. move him while you can. The guy is injured 2 straight years now

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04-07-2013, 06:42 AM
  #33
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I keep everyone on the team now except deal Boyle and Pyatt for picks and cap space. Replace then guys in CT

Let gilroy, Hamrlik walk. Maybe resign eminger as 7th d

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Old
04-07-2013, 06:46 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
People counted on this too much last season, and Kreider has not delivered.

I'm high on Fasth and Lindberg personally, but I'm not counting or relying on them coming in and adding enough scoring to make up for some which may be lacking.
Yes, but with an important asterisk, given the season opening late w/o training and apparent restraints on official practices/instruction with prospects. And of course, Torts.

We are obviously improved the last coupla games, and our odds of taking it all have thus gone up, especially w/Hank playing out of his mind last night, which he can't do EVERY game. Thus I hope he is gone so that his system, which had every possible break last year, but resulted in us BARELY advancing and then being embarrassed by NJ, is replaced. That specific point, please keep mods happy at the Torts thread.

However, I properly mention it here briefly only to that whether he stays or is gone, Torts will not be allowed to screw up a resource as precious as Kreider. Torts will not 'break' Kreider; we will break Torts, or trade Kreider IF there is some inability to get on the same page (don't think there is one if we have enough time for instruction; issue is Torts has the guy looking over his shoulder too much, thinking before he executes plays, to degree it creates delay, which is basis for the inefficient play; this Kreider can overcome w/training).

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04-07-2013, 06:52 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I see the team trading the excess forward depth in the pipeline for an NHL ready (or close to it) rd prospect.

I would not trade Andersson for a pick just to keep Bernie entertained during the draft. Calle actually fills a long term need on this team.

McBain was scratched before Tuesday's game and he would have been dealt, and I suspect to the Rangers, if not for Pitkanen getting injured. I'd keep an eye on that situation in the offseason.
The trading of Andersson was not advocated by me, it is an open question, one I used as a hypothetical.

Certainly, we should not do that just to entertain me.

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04-07-2013, 06:58 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
The idea that we'll be trading prospects (or players) for picks is ridiculous. This team is going for it now, not in 6 years. If you have a 20-21 year old prospect, you don't move him for a less developed 18 year old.

Let's face it, we are almost certainly not getting a player out of this draft. We don't have a 1st, 2nd, 5th and 7th.

Our picks are #3, #3, #4, #6. We stand about a 70-75% chance of not getting a player in this draft. Good excuse for the team to go for high risk guys. Nobody will blame them if they fail to get a player out of this, but they'd look like geniuses if they pulled a top player out of this.
I am not saying we do this, but just off the top of my head, you don't think we can do a package like Yogan, Anderson, Fogarty etc. with or w/o a pick for a (higher) pick?

And if you agree we can, is your point it is more profitable not to do so?

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04-07-2013, 07:09 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I am not saying we do this, but just off the top of my head, you don't think we can do a package like Yogan, Anderson, Fogarty etc. with or w/o a pick for a (higher) pick?

And if you agree we can, is your point it is more profitable not to do so?
How about keeping prospects and dealing vets like Boyle and Pyatt for picks and cap space.

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Old
04-07-2013, 07:24 AM
  #38
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This is a losing cause Bernie. Didn't you get the memo? We're 'going for it' now !

We just passed the trade deadline. Before that I don't recall anyone on this board speaking of draft pick percentages that make the NHL. Now that we traded our top 3 picks in the draft that's all anyone says when you mention this deep 2013 draft.

Like I said, trade all the picks, cause obviously there is such little chance we get any players with those odds.

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04-07-2013, 07:57 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
This is a losing cause Bernie. Didn't you get the memo? We're 'going for it' now !

We just passed the trade deadline. Before that I don't recall anyone on this board speaking of draft pick percentages that make the NHL. Now that we traded our top 3 picks in the draft that's all anyone says when you mention this deep 2013 draft.

Like I said, trade all the picks, cause obviously there is such little chance we get any players with those odds.
C'mon BN, I think you and I both know the Rangers will make some deals to get a couple of picks at the draft. There are ways.

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04-07-2013, 08:11 AM
  #40
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I don't think Staal is overrated, but it is true that he adds the least offensively out of our left sides defensemen.

I think, when the team is 26th offensively ranked and 4th defensively, it makes sense to consider flipping a pure defensive dman for a scorer.

That said, I am a huge Marc Staal fan and would be happy to see him continue to play for us.

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Old
04-07-2013, 08:13 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I am not saying we do this, but just off the top of my head, you don't think we can do a package like Yogan, Anderson, Fogarty etc. with or w/o a pick for a (higher) pick?

And if you agree we can, is your point it is more profitable not to do so?
But why would you trade Fogarty now? He is a freshman in college. Or Anderson who is not even here yet? You don't know what you have in them yet and its early and they are cost effective and you want to trade them for picks? Why? So you can draft players that may or may not be better than then? Because let me tell you one thing, the chances these kids get you a 1st as a return are zilch. Now unless Sather can pull an Oscar Lindberg all over again and steal a better prospect from a team using a Yogan and company that's the only reasonable scenario I can see because there is enough scouting involved. Otherwise I don't care how deep the draft is, it is still a lateral move.

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Old
04-07-2013, 09:16 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
C'mon BN, I think you and I both know the Rangers will make some deals to get a couple of picks at the draft. There are ways.
Yeah, by trading Gaborik at the draft.

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Old
04-07-2013, 09:19 AM
  #43
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What about Staal and a minor piece for Bobby Ryan? Ryan can play either wing and was tried at center for a while, so we have that option if Brass or Stepan go down. Nash is the only top scorer on this team, that needs to change. Maybe add a conditional 2015 2nd if Staal becomes a free agent or signs in Carolina?

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04-07-2013, 09:26 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I don't think Staal is overrated, but it is true that he adds the least offensively out of our left sides defensemen.

I think, when the team is 26th offensively ranked and 4th defensively, it makes sense to consider flipping a pure defensive dman for a scorer.

That said, I am a huge Marc Staal fan and would be happy to see him continue to play for us.
Staal is also the only defender we have that has a shot
Not to mention he was our leading scorer on defense this year before his injury

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04-07-2013, 10:13 AM
  #45
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Girardi will be the first D-man to leave this team.
I disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayQueensNY88 View Post
Sorry to say it but Staal is expendable. I think it's more a fact .

everyone seems to just love Staal for one,he's a Staal and 2 he was one of the first pieces mainly on the backend Rangers used when they started a rebuild,so people seem to have a soft spot for him. move him while you can. The guy is injured 2 straight years now
If Staal's expendable, then so is pretty much every player on the team.

A puck-to-the-eye is a fluke injury and shouldn't be used as a crutch for your failed argument.

The fact that you would move Staal for a pick, says a hell of a lot about your judgement. You're the type of person that would move him for crap, mainly because you think he's overrated. You don't move a player like Staal for an unknown. Only a fool would that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I keep everyone on the team now except deal Boyle and Pyatt for picks and cap space. Replace then guys in CT

Let gilroy, Hamrlik walk. Maybe resign eminger as 7th d
Bravo.

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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
And of course, Torts.

However, I properly mention it here briefly only to that whether he stays or is gone, Torts will not be allowed to screw up a resource as precious as Kreider. Torts will not 'break' Kreider; we will break Torts, or trade Kreider IF there is some inability to get on the same page (don't think there is one if we have enough time for instruction; issue is Torts has the guy looking over his shoulder too much, thinking before he executes plays, to degree it creates delay, which is basis for the inefficient play; this Kreider can overcome w/training).
This asinine logic that's clouded your judgement is sickening. Why have so many young players flourished under Torts? Year after year, he gives the young guys an opportunity to earn a roster spot.

You're so high on Kreider that your pointing your finger at someone undeserving. Point your finger at Kreider. He hasn't proven he deserves to play here consistently. Stop the nonsense about Torts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDubiZib View Post
Staal is also the only defender we have that has a shot
Not to mention he was our leading scorer on defense this year before his injury
11 points in 21 games. Staal was looking terrific offensively prior to his injury. So many people on this forum felt Staal had untapped offensive potential and what do you know, it's coming around.

Rangers don't move Staal unless it's a deal that's too good to pass up.

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04-07-2013, 10:21 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I disagree.
I mean out of the core (G, McD, MDZ, Staal, and possibly Moore now). Obviously Stralman, Eminger, Gilroy, and Hamr would be gone before any of them

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Old
04-07-2013, 10:46 AM
  #47
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Girardi will be the first D-man to leave this team.
its got to be a LD before him.. RDs are like #1c they are so hard to come by and the hardest position to fill out there.. Hes a legit top 4 on every team in the league.. id have to think MDZ is prob the first to get traded or Staal, but since hes a captain i put $ on MDZ.. he's always in the center of rumors etc..

Although i like what someone said above if Carolina is a lottery top 5 pick and since they want all the staals in the league..

id have to consider to trade staal for McBain top 5 pick and another prospect/NHL ready player like Dalpe..

or something around Staal+ (big +) for top5 and skinner (doubt it)

but Slats wont trade any of our D until he at least negotiates and gets the most out of all of them.. he'll fill scoring needs by UFA and we all know what that means.. Hopefully Malkins available in 14'.. if not I like possibly horton if he can come cheap this summer.. but with how UFA is this summer this dude is going to get paid!!!!!!!

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04-07-2013, 12:24 PM
  #48
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This is a losing cause Bernie. Didn't you get the memo? We're 'going for it' now !

We just passed the trade deadline. Before that I don't recall anyone on this board speaking of draft pick percentages that make the NHL. Now that we traded our top 3 picks in the draft that's all anyone says when you mention this deep 2013 draft.

Like I said, trade all the picks, cause obviously there is such little chance we get any players with those odds.
That's how it is with everything on this board. Before the Gaborik trade it was, "Yeah let's just trade our 40 goal scorer! Great idea! "

After the Gaborik trade it was, "He's a glassman and sucked this year. He's old and will never score 40 again! This trade is awesome!"

Before the deadline everyone was crying about not having a first, but now it's okay that they don't, and lost several more.

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04-07-2013, 12:28 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
That's how it is with everything on this board. Before the Gaborik trade it was, "Yeah let's just trade our 40 goal scorer! Great idea! "

After the Gaborik trade it was, "He's a glassman and sucked this year. He's old and will never score 40 again! This trade is awesome!"

Before the deadline everyone was crying about not having a first, but now it's okay that they don't, and lost several more.
Welcome to HFNYR, where opinions here are as meaningful as the points on "Whose Line is it Anyway"

A rare few of us actually stick to our guns around here.

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Old
04-07-2013, 12:30 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
The trading of Andersson was not advocated by me, it is an open question, one I used as a hypothetical.

Certainly, we should not do that just to entertain me.

It is a glorious Sunday morning.

The Son of Man comes not to be served, but to serve.

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bernmeister does not come to be entertained, but to entertain.
Hahaha
YOu crack me up Bern. What about the daughter of the woman? Is she not also an entertaining entity?

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