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Lundqvist - Two Weak Games, Bounce Back Buddy

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Old
04-07-2013, 04:44 PM
  #51
Bird Law
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FWIW, I assume Bob wins the Vezina if it was decided today.

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04-07-2013, 04:49 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
FWIW, I assume Bob wins the Vezina if it was decided today.
Which is definitely fair choice.

However, with still a dozen games to go, and with it looking like Hank is bolstering his game (while the CAR game was inhuman he was also fantastic against Pittsburgh) I think it's going to be very tight stats wise.

My take? The Bob story has been expounded on more by hockey media than Hank having a good season, so I think Bob takes it too. Hank is definitely a finalist, and maybe if he plays superhumanly for whatever games he starts over the next 10 he pulls ahead, but I think Bob bolstering CBJ is the more well-known narrative and that will help decide it.

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Old
04-07-2013, 04:52 PM
  #53
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Would Bob win it if CBJ missed the playoffs? When was the last time that happened?

Sort of unrelated, but why is it called sv% in hockey? The number isn't in percentage form.

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04-07-2013, 05:03 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
Has a goalie ever won the Vezina with 0-2 shutouts?
prob not but its a short season.

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04-07-2013, 05:12 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
FWIW, I assume Bob wins the Vezina if it was decided today.
I don't know. I think it's close enough where the voters will think long and hard about giving an important award to a goalie that has never done anything before this season and for all they know will never do something after this season over the best goalie in the NHL since the lockout.

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04-07-2013, 05:12 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Would Bob win it if CBJ missed the playoffs? When was the last time that happened?

Sort of unrelated, but why is it called sv% in hockey? The number isn't in percentage form.
He won't win if they miss the playoffs. I'd be shocked if he did.

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04-07-2013, 05:16 PM
  #57
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He won't win if they miss the playoffs. I'd be shocked if he did.
CBJ is currently in 11th place, 4 pts behind 8th. It'll be a hard climb. Of course, part of the reason that they don't win games is that they can't score for ****, as they're dead last in GPG currently.

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04-07-2013, 05:16 PM
  #58
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I actually thought that they were in 8th place. Man, the standings change so quickly this time of year.

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04-07-2013, 05:18 PM
  #59
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I actually thought that they were in 8th place. Man, the standings change so quickly this time of year.
Yeah, I was surprised too. Guess St. Louis winning today didn't help them much, as STL was in 8th before the game started. Will GM's consider the offensive output of Bob's team though? Feel "sorry" for him? Figure that the losses weren't his fault?

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04-07-2013, 05:19 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
Has a goalie ever won the Vezina with 0-2 shutouts?
Don't know, but has a goalie ever won the Vezina who's lost more games than he's won?
Bob is 13-9-6, that's 13 wins 15 losses in his 28 games.

Not that Hank is much better, he's 17 and 16 counting OT/SO losses as actual losses.

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04-07-2013, 05:20 PM
  #61
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Why no shutouts?

Hank has taken to a habit the last seasons of holding a wine raffle among his team mates, handing out some really nice wines, every time he gets a shutout.

Maybe he doesn't think anyone has shown enough support to deserve any wine yet?

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04-07-2013, 06:12 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I don't know. I think it's close enough where the voters will think long and hard about giving an important award to a goalie that has never done anything before this season and for all they know will never do something after this season over the best goalie in the NHL since the lockout.
Jim Carey and Jose Theodore have something to say about that.

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04-07-2013, 06:23 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
FWIW, I assume Bob wins the Vezina if it was decided today.
Has a goalie ever won it with his team missing the playoffs?

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04-07-2013, 07:36 PM
  #64
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The person I'm playing in fantasy this week has Hank. 3 wins, 5 goals against, 126 saves. Needless to say, I'm getting killed in all goalie categories. Worth it though.

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04-07-2013, 07:41 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
Has a goalie ever won it with his team missing the playoffs?
No. Ever since the Vezina changed format in 1982 (where it was no longer decided by fews goals - the present day Jennings), every goalie selected has made the playoffs.

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04-07-2013, 07:56 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Jim Carey and Jose Theodore have something to say about that.
Who did they go up against? How close were their stats to their closest competitor? If I remember JT was head and shoulders better than everyone. Also, maybe that's reason enough for the tiebreaker to go to the established goalie. I do think that Karlsson winning the Norris shows that the established guys don't always win these big awards.

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Old
04-07-2013, 09:02 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Hank will win a few Vezinas to end his career. He will be the most dominant Ranger of all time.
Leetch is the greatest Ranger of all-time, as well as greatest American player. Lundqvist will have to bring multiple cups to pass him in my eyes

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Old
04-07-2013, 11:42 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Shark Staal View Post
Leetch is the greatest Ranger of all-time, as well as greatest American player. Lundqvist will have to bring multiple cups to pass him in my eyes
it's debatable to be honest.

If Henrik can play for 10 more years (no given, but let's say it's possible)
and average 30 wins, and say 7 shutouts a year from here on out.

that's 570ish wins, and 130ish shutouts...

That would put him right up there with Brodeur in both of those stats (Brodeur has way more wins, but to be fair, he's also had some of the greatest teams ever assembled in front of him).

So he *could* end up being the 2nd or 3rd greatest goalie of all time.

Leetch is what, top 20? Maybe top 10?

If Henrik can keep on that pace, he'd be top 3 for sure, probably top 2.


So, again, it's debatable.

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04-07-2013, 11:42 PM
  #69
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let's also note that Henrik is in incredible shape and doesn't eat a box of Krispy Kreme donuts before every game like Fatso.

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04-08-2013, 12:24 AM
  #70
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We have the Eastern Conference bias though, guys.
We also have the Henrik Lundqvist bias + reigning Vezina winner bias too.
If Henrik can emerge as the stats leader over Bob in both GAA and S% with more games played, more wins, carries his team into the playoff while Bob doesn't, those biases would give Henrik a 50/50 shot at a repeat.

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04-08-2013, 12:25 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Shark Staal View Post
Leetch is the greatest Ranger of all-time, as well as greatest American player. Lundqvist will have to bring multiple cups to pass him in my eyes
Multiple cups? Care to elaborate that statement?

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Old
04-08-2013, 02:28 AM
  #72
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I thought my post in the Vezina thread might be appropriate here as well. I calculated the adjusted Sv% of the top four Vezina candidates and Lundqvist emerged clearly on top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Pure Sv% doesn't give a good picture since the different goalies have faced different ratio of shots in different situations, i.e. shot against when you're shorthanded is tougher than an ES shot.

Here is the adjusted Sv% of the top 4 goalies (Lundqvist, Bobrovsky, Rask, and Niemi):

Lundqvist: .9291
Bobrovsky: .9269
Rask: .9263
Niemi: .9243

I calculated a weighted average of shots faced at ES, PP, and SH of these four goalies and applied their Sv% in each of these situations to the calculated averages.

Lundqvist has by far the best ESSv% (.9378) and Niemi has the worst (.9291), but Lundqvist has faced the highest % of shots when his team is shorthanded which brings down his overall percentage.

Lundqvist: 80.3% ESSA, 15.9% SHSA, 3.7% PPSA
Bobrovsky: 84.8% ESSA, 12.9% SHSA, 2.2% PPSA
Rask: 85.0% ESSA, 12.2% SHSA, 2.8% PPSA
Niemi: 81.9% ESSA, 13.8% SHSA, 4.4% PPSA

TL;DR: Lundqvist is clearly the leader if you are looking at the stats.

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Old
04-08-2013, 02:33 AM
  #73
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What really gets me, when I think about it, is that if had played for a Rangers team with even a halfway better offense all these years, he would have already surpassed Richter for most wins. I keep thinking especially of all those losses where he gives up 1 or 2 goals. Blown shutouts also piss me off.

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Old
04-08-2013, 03:44 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
The person I'm playing in fantasy this week has Hank. 3 wins, 5 goals against, 126 saves. Needless to say, I'm getting killed in all goalie categories. Worth it though.
You think that's bad?

I have quick and elliott in my league.

We have W, GAA, sv%, SO

Most of my weeks this season have been something like 0-3-1

I literally never won a week on the W category. I'm 0-7-4. On the other 3 categories i'm 4-7-0, 4-7-0, 2-4-5. If it wasn't for elliott's shutout today (first useful thing he's done all season) I would've missed the playoffs. That's a .33 point % on goaltending. That's crappier then bryzgalov's shootout % this season

Not many goalies are consistent every year like hank.

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Old
04-08-2013, 04:27 AM
  #75
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Henrik has to be given a lot of recognition. Who gets nominated and recognized for having a consistent and excellent season more than Henrik? No one does.

Last year's finalist: Rinne, Quick and HM: Smith.
None of them are back around where they were. They're not playing bad but Henrik is the only one who's back at that level.

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