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NYR-Car: Godqvist is the greatest Ranger ever edition

View Poll Results: 3 stars of the game
Asham 6 2.94%
Boyle 7 3.43%
Brassard 7 3.43%
Callahan 25 12.25%
Clowe 8 3.92%
Del Zotto 15 7.35%
Eminger 3 1.47%
Girardi 6 2.94%
Hagelin 2 0.98%
McDonagh 4 1.96%
Moore 3 1.47%
Nash 97 47.55%
Powe 4 1.96%
Pyatt 2 0.98%
Richards 12 5.88%
Stepan 73 35.78%
Stralman 5 2.45%
Zuccarello 46 22.55%
Lundqvist 190 93.14%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-07-2013, 08:08 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Is this real life?
Yes. Oh wait, you mean we're not the Penguins? Never mind then.

I don't know what people have been watching for the last few years. I really don't.

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04-07-2013, 08:13 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Yes. Oh wait, you mean we're not the Penguins? Never mind then.

I don't know what people have been watching for the last few years. I really don't.
For being a very good team for the most part they sure have been very close of missing the playoffs for the most part, or is Lundqvist that bad he made a very good team lose more than they should have? Or are all top 8 teams in each conference very good teams? Or have they been a very good team underperforming?

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04-07-2013, 08:16 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
For being a very good team for the most part they sure have been very close of missing the playoffs for the most part, or is Lundqvist that bad he made a very good team lose more than they should have? Or are all top 8 teams in each conference very good teams? Or have they been a very good team underperforming?
Lundqvist has dragged teams into the playoffs that have had no business being there. People who don't appreciate him will really feel silly when he retires and we have God knows what playing in net.

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04-07-2013, 08:17 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
For being a very good team for the most part they sure have been very close of missing the playoffs for the most part, or is Lundqvist that bad he made a very good team lose more than they should have? Or are all top 8 teams in each conference very good teams? Or have they been a very good team underperforming?
This guy is right. The majority of Hank's career has been behind mediocre NYR squads. Besides Jagr's first year and last year (hopefully this year now, too) he's had some really subpar groups playing in front of him.

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04-07-2013, 08:18 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Lundqvist has dragged teams into the playoffs that have had no business being there. People who don't appreciate him will really feel silly when he retires and we have God knows what playing in net.
Wait, now you got me confused. Was your previous post sarcastic and agreeing with me, or did you imply that Lundqvist has had a very good team in front of him for the most part? Language barrier too strong (at least when it's 03 AM my time).

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04-07-2013, 08:19 PM
  #356
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Wait, now you got me confused. Was your previous post sarcastic and agreeing with me, or did you imply that Lundqvist has had a very good team in front of him for the most part?
It was sarcastic and agreeing with you.

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04-07-2013, 08:22 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
It was sarcastic and agreeing with you.
The univserse is back to normal. Reading the post again I'm not sure how I could have missed it.. Geez.

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04-07-2013, 08:25 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
The univserse is back to normal. Reading the post again I'm not sure how I could have missed it.. Geez.
I'll put the in next time.

Hank is great. IDK why anyone would argue otherwise, especially a supposed Rangers fan.

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04-07-2013, 08:40 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
One thing that Richter & Giacomin have in common to a certain extent is that they both played on really bad teams for most of their NYR career. Lundquist for the most part has had very good teams in front of him.
Really? Have you seen the Rangers play before 2011?

In 2011 we finished 8th with players like McCabe, Drury, Christensen, Rozsival, Frolov, Wolski, White.

In 2010 we missed the play offs (9th) with players like Kotalik, Lisin, Higgings, Voros, Shelley, Brashear, Sanguinetti and the invincible Redden

I can go back even further, but I think the best way to judge this is to look at the number of shots Lundqvist faced.

Richter had Save percentages of:
.901 (1205 SA in 41G, 29,3 SA/G)
.886 (1180 SA in 38G, 31,0 SA/G)
.910 (1758 SA in 68G, 25,8 SA/G)
.890 ( 884 SA in 35G, 25,3 SA/G)
.912 (1221 SA in 41G, 29,8 SA/G)
.917 (1945 SA in 61G, 31,9 SA/G)
.903 (2072 SA in 72G, 28,7 SA/G)

Lundqvist had Save percentages of:
.922 (1485 SA in 53G, 28,0 SA/G)
.917 (1927 SA in 70G, 27,5 SA/G)
.912 (1823 SA in 72G, 25,3 SA/G)
.916 (2007 SA in 70G, 28,6 SA/G)
.921 (2109 SA in 73G, 28,9 SA/G)
.923 (1965 SA in 68G, 28,9 SA/G)
.930 (1753 SA in 62G, 28,3 SA/G)

These are just random seasons. The Richter stats include 1994 and 1997, the Lundqvist of course includes the Conference final season of last year so no bias in these stats. While the shots against were a little higher for Richter, Lundqvist has a far superior save percentage. Lundqvist has almost twice as many shutouts (41) compared to Richter (24) while playing less games. Lundqvist has played 468 (55 play off matches), Richter has 666 (76 play off matches).

Lundqvist had a better team than Richter? Richter won 10 series during the play-offs, Lundqvist only 4. I think Lundqvist is the better goalie, with worse teams in front of him. He only had 2 good teams in front of him. 1 being the Jagr-team, the other being last season, while Richter had several seasons of guys like Messier, Gretzky, Leetch, Kovalev and many other players who performed well in the Big Apple.

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04-07-2013, 08:46 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Laces out Dan View Post
I understand all that. I've been watching the team since the mid 70s, and I know who Richter is. He was very good, I just think comparing him to Lundqvist is insane. Richter made some inexplicable saves, but was also prone to give up some really bad goals. His overall playoff resume and career resume is good, but not great, and in my humble opinion he isn't in the same stratosphere as Lundqvist.

Telling me Richter's teammates and coach praised him? No disrespect, but what do you expect them to say? Show me someone from another team back then who says they'd pick him over Roy, Brodeur or Hasek in a game 7. Honestly, Richter was generally not regarded as even one of the 5 best goalies in the league in his career (he had one instance of reaching the 5 spot in Vezina voting, and that was the only time he hit the top 5).

Richter had a great run in 94, for sure. On a very stacked team. Leetch and Mess, along with Graves top 5 in goals, Zubov top 5 in assists and like 90 points that season. I personally think that VBK carrying the under .500 '85-86 Rangers on his back in the playoffs was stronger than anything I'd seen Richter do. That '85-86 season, with a team whose top scorer had 60 some odd points in the high scoring 80s, VBK was 31-21-5, won the Vezina, and the other 3 Rangers' goalies were a combined 5-17-1.
Sorry I wasn't implying you don't know who Richter was or anything, only trying to say why I think people compare Hank to Richter. I was just trying to answer the question of why is there a comparison. You asked why do people compare Richter and Lundqvist. Your opinion may be that such a comparison makes no sense, fair enough, but I was stating WHY people compare Richter and Lundqvist.

Lundqvist is amazing and Richter is the previous best goalie to play for the Rangers. That's why the comparison exists. Same wal Cally as a captain will always be compared to Messier. And why when we drafted Del Zotto people wondered if he was the next Leetch, because he was the previous "standard" set at that by a Ranger.

And about Richter giving up bad goals, that's true but it was also a different time and he was a different type of goalie. The dud was like 5'9 and to compensate he had to be super aggressive and when you come out as far as he did as often as he did you're going to give up some ****** goals. I think that was just the nature of the beast when it came to playing that style of goaltending.

And Vanbiesbrouck was amazing too, nothing against him. But Richter won the cup, has the wins record, has his number retired. That's why people compare Lundqvist to him. Compare current excellence to past excellence.

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04-07-2013, 08:50 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
Really? Have you seen the Rangers play before 2011?

In 2011 we finished 8th with players like McCabe, Drury, Christensen, Rozsival, Frolov, Wolski, White.

In 2010 we missed the play offs (9th) with players like Kotalik, Lisin, Higgings, Voros, Shelley, Brashear, Sanguinetti and the invincible Redden

I can go back even further, but I think the best way to judge this is to look at the number of shots Lundqvist faced.

Richter had Save percentages of:
.901 (1205 SA in 41G, 29,3 SA/G)
.886 (1180 SA in 38G, 31,0 SA/G)
.910 (1758 SA in 68G, 25,8 SA/G)
.890 ( 884 SA in 35G, 25,3 SA/G)
.912 (1221 SA in 41G, 29,8 SA/G)
.917 (1945 SA in 61G, 31,9 SA/G)
.903 (2072 SA in 72G, 28,7 SA/G)

Lundqvist had Save percentages of:
.922 (1485 SA in 53G, 28,0 SA/G)
.917 (1927 SA in 70G, 27,5 SA/G)
.912 (1823 SA in 72G, 25,3 SA/G)
.916 (2007 SA in 70G, 28,6 SA/G)
.921 (2109 SA in 73G, 28,9 SA/G)
.923 (1965 SA in 68G, 28,9 SA/G)
.930 (1753 SA in 62G, 28,3 SA/G)

These are just random seasons. The Richter stats include 1994 and 1997, the Lundqvist of course includes the Conference final season of last year so no bias in these stats. While the shots against were a little higher for Richter, Lundqvist has a far superior save percentage. Lundqvist has almost twice as many shutouts (41) compared to Richter (24) while playing less games. Lundqvist has played 468 (55 play off matches), Richter has 666 (76 play off matches).

Lundqvist had a better team than Richter? Richter won 10 series during the play-offs, Lundqvist only 4. I think Lundqvist is the better goalie, with worse teams in front of him. He only had 2 good teams in front of him. 1 being the Jagr-team, the other being last season, while Richter had several seasons of guys like Messier, Gretzky, Leetch, Kovalev and many other players who performed well in the Big Apple.
I don't think it's really fair to compare SV% and use that as the main basis. I do think Hank is the better goalie for the record, but this is a different time and the game is different now. Back then SV%'s were lower,just being around .900 was awesome and back then any GAA around 3 or under was considered great.

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04-07-2013, 08:54 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Glen Sathers Cigar View Post
I don't think it's really fair to compare SV% and use that as the main basis. I do think Hank is the better goalie for the record, but this is a different time and the game is different now. Back then SV%'s were lower,just being around .900 was awesome and back then any GAA around 3 or under was considered great.
I agree.

At the same time, its a helluva better indicator than # of Stanley Cups.

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04-07-2013, 08:59 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree.

At the same time, its a helluva better indicator than # of Stanley Cups.
True, look how many cups Chris Osgood has.

I just mean stats aren't always black and white. I'd bet Bryz has a better SV% and GAA than Richter did at some point, does that make Bryz the better goalie? Defense is better these days and scoring is down. I couldn't imagine a goalie in the 80s-90s having a .940 SV% and a 1.95 GAA as a starter. That'd be insane. Now if a goale had a .906 SV% people would laugh. That SV% won Jim Carey the vezina trophy in 1996.

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04-07-2013, 11:31 PM
  #364
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I love Mike Richter, but it took one of the greatest teams ever assembled back to back 7 game series to win a cup.

Seriously.

Graves, Messier, Leetch, Zubov, Kovalev, Beukeboom, not to mention Tikkanen and Matteau....That's one of the 2 greatest forwards in the history of the game, the greatest american defenseman in the history of the game, a guy who up until a few years ago had the Rangers record for most goals in a season, Kovalev who *could* go to the HOF (debateable), Beuke who was as tough as it came, and was an elite defensive defenseman....etc, etc, etc.

And....Richter had 2 horrendous late goals in the Devils series that really screwed us.

Richter was great, and had a great season, but Henrik Lundqvist wins that cup as well..and probably does is in fewer games.

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04-07-2013, 11:36 PM
  #365
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Graves, Messier, Leetch, Zubov, Kovalev, Beukeboom, not to mention Tikkanen and Matteau....That's one of the 2 greatest forwards in the history of the game
.
Who is the second forward?

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04-08-2013, 01:03 AM
  #366
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Messier, Gretzky.

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04-08-2013, 01:27 AM
  #367
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Who is the second forward?
Gretzky obviously.

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04-08-2013, 01:34 AM
  #368
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though some people could argue Lemieux....I've got no time for those ppl though.

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04-08-2013, 01:44 AM
  #369
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though some people could argue Lemieux....I've got no time for those ppl though.
Well, Lemieux did win the Cup with 3 different teams

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04-08-2013, 09:44 AM
  #370
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though some people could argue Lemieux....I've got no time for those ppl though.
Yeah, my bad. I read it as two of the greatest forwards in the history of the game. Was eagerly awaiting your case for Tikkanen.

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04-08-2013, 10:34 AM
  #371
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Richter is my favorite Ranger of all-time. He may also be one of the most overrated Rangers of all-time. On the other end of the spectrum, Vanbiesbrouck is criminally underrated.

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04-08-2013, 11:44 AM
  #372
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I think Richter's flare was something that propelled him into a level that his actual talent level may not have supported. He was just so much fun to watch and his athleticism was something to behold.

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04-08-2013, 11:51 AM
  #373
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I think Richter's flare was something that propelled him into a level that his actual talent level may not have supported. He was just so much fun to watch and his athleticism was something to behold.
Good call.

And, unfortunately, it also made him more susceptible to injury.

Richter was definitely more exciting to watch but, for me anyway, Lundqvist's style of almost no wasted movement is more efficient and effective.

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04-08-2013, 11:53 AM
  #374
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Lundqvist > Richter (who is one of my favorite players, but it really shouldn't even be a discussion).

Also, Messier is the 2nd greatest F of all time? Uh, no.

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04-08-2013, 12:01 PM
  #375
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Also, Messier is the 2nd greatest F of all time? Uh, no.
1st?

No, but I agree.

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