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Old
04-07-2013, 09:38 PM
  #26
5 Minute Major
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Originally Posted by Daz28 View Post
I don't want to be a contrarian, but if you're saying your points in a season is no indication where you club is as a whole, then I disagree. We're playing middle of the league hockey with a lot of young guys. How can that be a sign of bad things to come? Because the rotten core we got rid of did it before?
Please.

The Sabres were flat out dominated tonight. Getting two points in this game is absolutely no indication of what kind of team they have. I have been watching the Sabres for 40 years and never seen them so consistently pinned in their own zone like they were tonight.

It was expansion bad.

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04-07-2013, 09:40 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Daz28 View Post
I don't want to be a contrarian, but if you're saying your points in a season is no indication where you club is as a whole, then I disagree. We're playing middle of the league hockey with a lot of young guys. How can that be a sign of bad things to come? Because the rotten core we got rid of did it before?
No one on this team can make things happen besides Vanek and he's always injured this time of the year. The goals we score right now are almost always capitalizing off the opponents playing poorly. That's great and all but good luck getting out of the 1st round if you don't have players who can hit a second gear. Just because this team can be middle of the pack with young players doesn't mean they can take the next step. They will be middle of the pack until they can get some outstanding players who will go above and beyond.

Also saying a team is middle of the pack in this league is just saying they're garbage. There are great teams, terrible teams, and really terrible teams in the NHL right now.

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04-07-2013, 09:41 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Timbo Slice View Post
You just KNOW they'll going to lose to a harder working team like Jersey.
Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Please.

The Sabres were flat out dominated tonight. Getting two points in this game is absolutely no indication of what kind of team they have. I have been watching the Sabres for 40 years and never seen them so consistently pinned in their own zone like they were tonight.

It was expansion bad.
I'd argue they played even or better for about half the game. That other half was disastrous though

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04-07-2013, 09:41 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Please.

The Sabres were flat out dominated tonight. Getting two points in this game is absolutely no indication of what kind of team they have. I have been watching the Sabres for 40 years and never seen them so consistently pinned in their own zone like they were tonight.

It was expansion bad.

Goes both ways. How the youngsters are playing now is no indication on how they will play in the future. And it is certainly no indication of the talent they will have on the team in the future.

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04-07-2013, 09:43 PM
  #30
Daz28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Please.

The Sabres were flat out dominated tonight. Getting two points in this game is absolutely no indication of what kind of team they have. I have been watching the Sabres for 40 years and never seen them so consistently pinned in their own zone like they were tonight.

It was expansion bad.
I wasn't referring to tonight. I was referring to a teams points in a season being relative to their worth. I take it you haven't seen many of our 1 shot periods this year then. We've had a couple at least.


Last edited by Daz28: 04-07-2013 at 09:48 PM.
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04-07-2013, 09:44 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
No one on this team can make things happen besides Vanek and he's always injured this time of the year. The goals we score right now are almost always capitalizing off the opponents playing poorly. That's great and all but good luck getting out of the 1st round if you don't have players who can hit a second gear. Just because this team can be middle of the pack with young players doesn't mean they can take the next step. They will be middle of the pack until they can get some outstanding players who will go above and beyond.

Also saying a team is middle of the pack in this league is just saying they're garbage. There are great teams, terrible teams, and really terrible teams in the NHL right now.
Still, if they could make the playoffs (they probably won't), that would be great experience for the young guys. And it is a pretty clear pattern that players get better with the more NHL experience that they get. So, having a middle of the road team of young players doesn't guarantee future success, but it gives us something to be optimistic about.

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04-07-2013, 09:46 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by camcool21 View Post
Still, if they could make the playoffs (they probably won't), that would be great experience for the young guys. And it is a pretty clear pattern that players get better with the more NHL experience that they get. So, having a middle of the road team of young players doesn't guarantee future success, but it gives us something to be optimistic about.

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04-07-2013, 09:47 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by camcool21 View Post
Still, if they could make the playoffs (they probably won't), that would be great experience for the young guys. And it is a pretty clear pattern that players get better with the more NHL experience that they get. So, having a middle of the road team of young players doesn't guarantee future success, but it gives us something to be optimistic about.
I personally don't care for the majority of the young guys up here at this CURRENT time. I'm glad you think being middle of the road is somewhat acceptable and prone to optimism. I'd like to be elite, thanks.

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04-07-2013, 09:47 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
No one on this team can make things happen besides Vanek and he's always injured this time of the year. .
By that do you mean 40 games into the season, or are you just implying he always gets his goal when they don't matter? Not trying to put words in your mouth, but "this time of year" is not what "this time of year" usually is.

I'd argue that when you're beating other teams who are fighting for playoff spots, and teams that have been at the top of the league, someone is clearly making something happen.

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04-07-2013, 09:47 PM
  #35
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Did you miss the part immediately after that where I said "they probably won't" or do you read selectively.

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Old
04-07-2013, 09:48 PM
  #36
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I'm mildly happy how the team hasn't buckled after trading their captain. Obviously it's not beneficial for the tank but at least they have some pride and some spine. Before I thought they had none.

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04-07-2013, 09:48 PM
  #37
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You just know that we're going to lose the next game. Has this team won more than 3 games in a row at all this season?

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04-07-2013, 09:49 PM
  #38
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Did you miss the part immediately after that where I said "they probably won't" or do you read selectively.
You know the answer

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04-07-2013, 09:50 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by camcool21 View Post
So, having a middle of the road team of young players doesn't guarantee future success, but it gives us something to be optimistic about.
In today's game with all of the 3 point games EVERY team is at least middle of the pack. And a lot of them have young teams.

Buffalo's prospect pool isn't exactly amazing. It's a solid group but there's easily 10 better. And the more 13 overall draft picks we finish with, the more the other middle of the road teams gain on us. And for an organization that is not able to find the missing pieces like Boston or Chicago is through free agency there's very few ways to ever breakthrough and stop being a middle of the road team. Drafting a talent like the top 3 (even top 5) is one of those ways and we are going to piss it away until a chance like this arises again.

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04-07-2013, 09:51 PM
  #40
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Bill Hoppe Bill Hoppe ‏@BillHoppeNHL 1m

Pat Kaleta on Hecht creating his goal: " I said, ‘Old man, it’s about time you hit me there.’" #Sabres

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04-07-2013, 09:52 PM
  #41
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I don't think this rebuild is going to take as long as some folks are implying. A huge part of our problem has been that we started this year essentially without one player capable of playing center on an NHL team. That puts a huge amount of pressure on every other position, which as we all know, were not completely solid either. I would say now we have seen Porter emerge as a fourth line C and Hodgson start to show some confidence as a top 6 C. The team is playing better because of that. It does not make us a good team- but if they continue to improve and we can begin to find folks who can grow into the other two C spots, some of the other weak spots won't look nearly as bad.

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04-07-2013, 09:52 PM
  #42
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Good:
- Miller with a great game.
- Hodgson's pass and Ott's finish. With Gerbe and Ott on the wing, I thought that this line didn't spend much time in their end either.
- Would have been nice to see Hecht and Kaleta without them being saddled by...

Bad:
- ...John Scott, who made it all of 38 minutes before doing something stupid to hurt his team.
- The AHL line got killed.
- At this point Stafford is on the same level as the other fringe NHLers in my eyes.
- Thought Pardy, Pysyk, and Myers all struggled at various points.

Ugly:
- Special teams killed us.
- Cleared, BUT NOT OUT.

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04-07-2013, 09:52 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Daz28 View Post
By that do you mean 40 games into the season, or are you just implying he always gets his goal when they don't matter? Not trying to put words in your mouth, but "this time of year" is not what "this time of year" usually is.

I'd argue that when you're beating other teams who are fighting for playoff spots, and teams that have been at the top of the league, someone is clearly making something happen.
Vanek is always injured weeks before playoff time. Even if he's playing he's injured.

And do you really think we win any of these past few games in a playoff atmosphere? New Jersey is a bad team and they dominated us most of the game.

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04-07-2013, 09:53 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
In today's game with all of the 3 point games EVERY team is at least middle of the pack. And a lot of them have young teams.

Buffalo's prospect pool isn't exactly amazing. It's a solid group but there's easily 10 better. And the more 13 overall draft picks we finish with, the more the other middle of the road teams gain on us. And for an organization that is not able to find the missing pieces like Boston or Chicago is through free agency there's very few ways to ever breakthrough and stop being a middle of the road team. Drafting a talent like the top 3 (even top 5) is one of those ways and we are going to piss it away until a chance like this arises again.
Nobody denies that..but its pointless to root for it. Whatever happens.. happens.

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04-07-2013, 09:54 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by camcool21 View Post
Still, if they could make the playoffs (they probably won't), that would be great experience for the young guys. And it is a pretty clear pattern that players get better with the more NHL experience that they get. So, having a middle of the road team of young players doesn't guarantee future success, but it gives us something to be optimistic about.
Absolutely. You'd love to be a really good team that happened to land in 30th, but it doesn't work that way. If you're a team in 30th, it means you need a heck of a lot more than 1 potential elite player, because you're simply the worst. I think a lot of this negativity is people looking in the rear-view. A young club that can win is a positive(after all the changes, too). It really is.

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04-07-2013, 09:57 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
In today's game with all of the 3 point games EVERY team is at least middle of the pack. And a lot of them have young teams.

Buffalo's prospect pool isn't exactly amazing. It's a solid group but there's easily 10 better. And the more 13 overall draft picks we finish with, the more the other middle of the road teams gain on us. And for an organization that is not able to find the missing pieces like Boston or Chicago is through free agency there's very few ways to ever breakthrough and stop being a middle of the road team. Drafting a talent like the top 3 (even top 5) is one of those ways and we are going to piss it away until a chance like this arises again.
Except with Pegula the Sabres have been very active in free agency. Nice try though.

You seem to be carrying an assumption in your argument that top draft picks allow you to become "elite." I question that line of logic. Every year, 5 teams have top 5 picks. These picks are more or less a crap shoot most of the time, unless you are picking in the 1 or 2 spot (and even then it doesn't work out sometimes).

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Old
04-07-2013, 09:59 PM
  #47
Moskau
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Originally Posted by Daz28 View Post
Absolutely. You'd love to be a really good team that happened to land in 30th, but it doesn't work that way. If you're a team in 30th, it means you need a heck of a lot more than 1 potential elite player, because you're simply the worst. I think a lot of this negativity is people looking in the rear-view. A young club that can win is a positive(after all the changes, too). It really is.
A young team that has players in the clubs future.

If we were dressing Armia, Grigs, Girgs and McCabe what you are saying makes sense. But most of the players on the team right now will not be on the team in 2 years.

Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno, Myers and Pysyk are the only developing players right now. Flynn maybe has a spot on the 3rd or 4th line next year but I wont hold my breath for much after that.

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Old
04-07-2013, 09:59 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
Vanek is always injured weeks before playoff time. Even if he's playing he's injured.

And do you really think we win any of these past few games in a playoff atmosphere? New Jersey is a bad team and they dominated us most of the game.
So it's just Vanek that gets banged up playing in front of the net, or would that apply to nay guy who plays his role? Not sure if you're saying it's just a think Vanek deals with?


I think NJ had to go into this game thinking it could be a do or die game for them. I don't think they treated it as any old reg season game.

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04-07-2013, 10:00 PM
  #49
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Bad:
- At this point Stafford is on the same level as the other fringe NHLers in my eyes.
I understand that he's had a rough year, but I thought he had a pretty good game. Generated some good chances, and was good on the forecheck with Foligno. Stafford seems to be getting a lot of reputation hate lately (a well earned reputation, but still).

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04-07-2013, 10:00 PM
  #50
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Did you miss the part immediately after that where I said "they probably won't" or do you read selectively.
It's not a matter of "probably won't." It isn't happening. Hell, it'd be a great learning experience if this team won the cup, too. Both things have an equal chance of happening. Talking about the playoffs like they're still an option is just mind-boggling.

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