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The Core and the Future

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Old
04-07-2013, 08:43 PM
  #1
NJRangers35
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The Core and the Future

I am sitting here watching the Devils and Sabres game and was thinking about this team and their future. I know it is really early to start thinking about next year and beyond with us fighting for a playoff spot, but I can't help but notice we have a lot of log jams coming up in the future. Right now I look at this team and consider the following players people I do not want traded or let go in any situation:

Henrik Lundqvist
Ryan Callahan
Derek Stepan
Rick Nash
Chris Kreider
JT Miller
Ryan McDonagh
Marc Staal
Michael Del Zotto

I understand that both Richards and Clowe will also be here for the long run as well, but these 10 players are the ten I personally consider the core of the team. Carl Hagelin is a player that I would look into trading to upgrade a different position. Assuming Clowe is brought back, there will be a log game at LW with Nash/Kreider/Clowe/Hagelin. Girardi is another player who I could not have more respect for, but seems like the type of player who will break down eventually. He is a free agent after next season and I would be nervous to lock him up long term. The reasons above are why I did not include Hagelin and Girardi in my core. The loss of Girardi would cause a huge hole at RD tho.

Now as I said before assume we bring back Clowe and both Kreider and Miller are ready next year, we are going to have some log jams. Just for argument sakes lets say that all the forwards are brought back next year, we would have the following players fighting for 12 spots.

Nash, Stepan, Callahan, Richards, Clowe, MZA, Brassard, Hagelin, Boyle, Pyatt, Powe, Asham, Dorsett, Kreider, Haley, and Miller. That is 16 players for 12 spots. How would your lines look? Right now I see the following:

Hagelin/Stepan/Nash
Kreider/Richards/MZA
Clowe/Miiler/Callahan
Boyle/Brassard/Dorsett

Now we are left with Powe, Asham, Haley, and Pyatt. My first thoughts are that would be an expensive 4th line. Brassard at over 3 mil would be a lot, but where else could you possibly put him? Miller cannot be wasted on the 4th line. Next that would be a lot of money between Powe, Asham, Haley, and Pyatt to rid ourselves of this offseason without taking much back. I can see Asham or Haley coming back to be an extra forward, but could be hard dumping Pyatt and Powe off and not having to take money back. How would players like Clowe and Callahan feel being on the 3rd line? Seems to me like Brassard would be wasted on the 4th line. Seems with the way this roster is constructed there are going to be a lot of questions that will need to be answered. Would love to hear your feedback.

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04-07-2013, 09:52 PM
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Unknownbutfamous
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Yeah I was thinking about what our line up with look like next year and noticed there will be a serious logjam. I think Boyle and Pyatt will be traded in the offseason, but one of Kreider or Miller will have to be in the AHL. Also I think we will wait to see on if MZA is a long term solution here. Well see how he performs the rest of the season. Players typically play well in the first few games when introduced to a new scenario but then level off after. I could see the Rangers buying out Richards this year, to be able to get Miller some good ice time. This is what I see for next year.


Hagelin/Stepan/Nash
Kreider/Richards/MZA
Clowe/Brassard/Callahan
Asham/Powe/Dorsett
Haley

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04-07-2013, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Unknownbutfamous View Post
Yeah I was thinking about what our line up with look like next year and noticed there will be a serious logjam. I think Boyle and Pyatt will be traded in the offseason, but one of Kreider or Miller will have to be in the AHL. Also I think we will wait to see on if MZA is a long term solution here. Well see how he performs the rest of the season. Players typically play well in the first few games when introduced to a new scenario but then level off after. I could see the Rangers buying out Richards this year, to be able to get Miller some good ice time. This is what I see for next year.


Hagelin/Stepan/Nash
Kreider/Richards/MZA
Clowe/Brassard/Callahan
Asham/Powe/Dorsett
Haley
Theres only a serious logjam if everyone works out, and when does that ever happen?

This thread comes up every year - Im sure if you take a look at the ones from 3,4,5 years ago, they are absolutely hilarious

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04-07-2013, 10:01 PM
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broadwayblue
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Richards might not be here for the long run. Unless he has an All Star caliber season next year he's likely to be bought out. Way too many years left on his contract and a potentially cap crippling result if we don't use the final amnesty buyout on him.

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04-07-2013, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Theres only a serious logjam if everyone works out, and when does that ever happen?

This thread comes up every year - Im sure if you take a look at the ones from 3,4,5 years ago, they are absolutely hilarious
Sanguinetti and Del Zotto!? What will we do?

This is true though, it would be a great problem to have, but we'll see how it works out in a year or two.

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04-07-2013, 10:12 PM
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Brian Boyle
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I just don't see how we're going to fit Tyutin, Kondratiev, Pock, Baranka, Liffiton and Flatt in.

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04-07-2013, 10:18 PM
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Hagelin is part of this core. You don't trade that kind of speed, it's game breaking. His scoring comes and goes but he should be good for around 35-40 points a year and remember, this is his SECOND season as a pro so he can improve. He's still relatively cheap as well.

Between all of the prospects, some will join the core. On D if McLIrath can take the next step or Noreau keeps working you never know. Moore is only 22 and could be here a very long time.

Up front is a little more interesting. Miller is here to stay and next season should have a bigger role. Brassard is still very young and could take over the number two center spot. Kreider/Torts round 3 will hopefully be a little warmer and give him more time. We shall see.

The 4 wildcards to me are Fasth, Lindberg, St. Croix and much later Nieves. I think Boo will be an NHL player but by that time there could be a new core. St. Croix looks to be either a home run or a blip on the radar and that leaves the Swedes;

If Fasth adds muscle and strength he'll be here a long time and has the potential to be a top 6 contributor. If not, he's going to be one of those super talented guys who always gets banged up and will probably be an NHL journeyman. I'm rooting for him.

If Lindberg can translate his offense to the NHL he'll be an essential part of the Rangers for the next decade. He also might be Blair Betts. We shall see.

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04-07-2013, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I just don't see how we're going to fit Tyutin, Kondratiev, Pock, Baranka, Liffiton and Flatt in.


I still miss him.

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04-07-2013, 10:20 PM
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Miller Time NYR
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like previous years ill believe it when i see it, you can never have too much talent or depth... injuries happen and not eveyone on the team is going to play up to their abilities or expectations especially top end guys ie. Richards.

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04-07-2013, 10:23 PM
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Having Brassard, a skilled center who doesn't PK or play defense as a 4th line center is a terrible idea. I'd put Brassard in the 3rd C spot and have Miller battle it out with Boyle and Lindberg. As much as I like Powe, he is not a long-term solution here, he has less offense in his body than Boyle does in his pinky and that's saying something. I'd want my 4th line C with a tiny bit more production than Powe brings. He would be lucky to score 6 goals a season. That's how terrible his offense is. Dump Pyatt, Powe. Keep Asham as a spare, let go of Gilroy, have Eminger be the 7th D-man.

Clowe-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Richards-Mza
Kreider-Brassard-Callahan
Dorsett-Miller/Boyle-Asham
Haley/Asham as a spare

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Stralman
MDZ-Moore/McIlrath
Eminger

I love the depth on the team. If we can dump Pyatt, Powe, and Gilroy, we can pick up another bottom 6 guy who produces and we are set.

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04-07-2013, 10:25 PM
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broadwayblue
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Originally Posted by SwedishBullet62 View Post
like previous years ill believe it when i see it, you can never have too much talent or depth... injuries happen and not eveyone on the team is going to play up to their abilities or expectations especially top end guys ie. Richards.
Exactly. More talent and depth means guys are pushed to keep their spot. Injuries and guys not panning out usually takes care of these "logjams". At the end of the day if you end up with an embarrassment of riches trades can always be made.

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04-07-2013, 10:25 PM
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White Plains Batman
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I still miss him.
We all have our favorite prospects for whatever reason. I was a big Immonen fan, followed him during the first lockout and though he played well enough to be a regular. Tom Renney and then 29 other GMs felt otherwise.

You never know who will turn into what. Callahan had no hype whatsoever, missed training camp in 2006 with a knee injury, and just worked his way up. I don't think anyone would ever think he would become the captain, define the team, and be a 25 + goal scorer.

It's entirely possible that Sam Noreau becomes a fan favorite. and patrols the blueline for 15 years. You never know.

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04-07-2013, 10:29 PM
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Unknownbutfamous
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Theres only a serious logjam if everyone works out, and when does that ever happen?

This thread comes up every year - Im sure if you take a look at the ones from 3,4,5 years ago, they are absolutely hilarious
This is different. Torts has been here a long time and has weeded the players he likes and doesnt like.

Torts kind of guy?
Hagelin - Yes
Stepan - Yes
Nash - Yes
Kreider - Remains to be seen
Richards - Yes
MZA - Remains to be seen
Clowe - Yes
Brassard - Remains to be seen
Callahan- Yes
Asham - Yes
Powe - Yes
Dorsett - I can safely assume yes
Haley - Yes
Miller - Yes
Pyatt - No
Boyle - Yes

I think Torts has 12 guys he trusts and 4 he doesnt.

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04-07-2013, 10:36 PM
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NJRangers35
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When I was talking about the future in my original post, I meant looking into next season. I am aware we have prospects like Lindberg and Fast who could impact the future, but I was talking about last season. It seems likely other than locking up our own guys this offseason (Clowe, Stepan, Hagelin, and McDonagh), we are going to be fairly quiet. If everyone were to return NEXT year, I was wondering where you all thought everyone fit.

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04-07-2013, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
We all have our favorite prospects for whatever reason. I was a big Immonen fan, followed him during the first lockout and though he played well enough to be a regular. Tom Renney and then 29 other GMs felt otherwise.

You never know who will turn into what. Callahan had no hype whatsoever, missed training camp in 2006 with a knee injury, and just worked his way up. I don't think anyone would ever think he would become the captain, define the team, and be a 25 + goal scorer.

It's entirely possible that Sam Noreau becomes a fan favorite. and patrols the blueline for 15 years. You never know.
Well said cape crusader. One could say that log jams are exactly the kind of problems you want to have. You want your hockey organization to be in the position where very tough choices need to be made. It indicates at least a decent job is being done with scouting, drafting and player development.

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04-07-2013, 10:56 PM
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Moving Girardi cuts a big hole in our right side defense. Come the playoffs (if we make it that is) he is going to be a very key guy no matter how far we get or don't get. He's probably going to be at least 25 minutes a night. The question isn't so much whether he's better than Staal or McDonagh or less valuable than Del Zotto. The problem is he is by far our best right side defenseman and it's not even that close. He's also a real gamer. He can play big minutes and do a very competent job of it over a long stretch of time. He will block shots, get hit quite often, do a lot of his own hitting, play special teams, play hurt without complaint and not put his team down shorthanded very often. That's a ****ing lot and right now he's irreplaceable with the personnel we currently have. No one else is up to that job on our roster or in our system. You move him and you're going to have to find another right side defenseman that can at least come close to covering what he does now. Moving him may bring in more offense but now you're going to have filled a hole by creating another one.

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04-07-2013, 11:04 PM
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HockeyBasedNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknownbutfamous View Post
This is different. Torts has been here a long time and has weeded the players he likes and doesnt like.

Torts kind of guy?
Hagelin - Yes
Stepan - Yes
Nash - Yes
Kreider - Remains to be seen
Richards - Yes
MZA - Remains to be seen
Clowe - Yes
Brassard - Remains to be seen
Callahan- Yes
Asham - Yes
Powe - Yes
Dorsett - I can safely assume yes
Haley - Yes
Miller - Yes
Pyatt - No
Boyle - Yes

I think Torts has 12 guys he trusts and 4 he doesnt.
Not sold on Powe, he's provided nothing offensively. I mean like absolute nothing. I think one of his last shots was actually a dump in that went off the linesman on the near boards.

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Old
04-07-2013, 11:13 PM
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White Plains Batman
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If y'all mean next season then here are a few questions that have to be answered;

1)Will Clowe be back? (I hope so).
2)Will Emminger be back as the 7th Dman?
3)Will McLIrath, Noreau, or one of these college dudes force their way into the lineup?
4)Will MZA be back?

And most importantly;

5) What will happen with Kreider/Miller/Fasth/Lindberg/a wildcard vs. Asham/Pyatt/Boyle/Powe/Dorsett?

To me this last question is the most intriguing. If all or most of these guys are ready, this opens up the opportunity for the Rangers to have four scoring lines or a wealth of riches.

Boyle is pretty much guaranteed to start the season here as is Dorsett, but do both guys keep their spots?

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04-07-2013, 11:31 PM
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Our team plus prospects in the system looks better than it has in a very long time. Miller and Kreider will certainly be NHL players with high ceilings. McIlrath and Moore will probably make it, even if it just as a #5 or 6. Sjei is an unknown. Fast and Lindberg have the potential to be NHLers, as does Hrivik. Nieves does as well. Not bad considering that Stepan, McDonagh and Staal are young and effective. We probably have one more year of Richards before he gets bought out. We don't have a replacement for Clowe or Nash in the system. All in all, it is not a bad future but the goal behind Henrik is barren. Asham, Pyatt will probably be gone after this year. Hagelin is a keeper, and I think will be another Mikael Samuelsson as he learns, with better wheels of course.

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04-07-2013, 11:45 PM
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ChrisKreider20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I just don't see how we're going to fit Tyutin, Kondratiev, Pock, Baranka, Liffiton and Flatt in.
Don't forget immonen, psurny, prucha, Garth Murray, Bruce graham, Darin Olver, and the king of them all who all fans had in their top six projecting for 06, Jozef Balej.


The one reason however that I feel more confident in our current top prospects to at least make the bottom six unlike the players above who aren't in the nhl is these are first Rounders. The ones above weren't and in the case of players like immonen and kondratiev, the only reason they were ever touted was bc they were some of the only standouts in an awful tml pool who was doing the same trade for old stars and overpay strategy.

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