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Has Marc Bergevin made his first mistake as a Habs GM?

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Old
04-07-2013, 10:35 PM
  #126
hototogisu
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People want to pretend like Emelin is irreplaceable, but he's really not. I don't think Kaberle, Weber, or one of the kids from Hamilton will be a significant downgrade, personally.

As far as Bergevin goes...you can't have a contingency plan for everything. If Plekanec was hurt long term, would people begrudge him for not getting a #2C "just in case"? What about if it was a top-six winger? A #1 D? A starting goalie? Where does it end?

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04-07-2013, 10:45 PM
  #127
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Where do you stick your number 4 depth defensman if not in the lineup? You don't keep him in the stands. A depth guy is someone that's plausibly sitting in the stands a few games and those guys are not number 4s. People seem to think we can have duplicates of players waiting on the side or something.
Same place they put Wiskey on the third pairing dmen.
Now with Emelin down the Habs will have to put Wiskey to play as a #4 D instead of a more experienced guy.

Going into a playoff run you need a solid 9 dman to insulate against injuries. The problem is we had three wonky Dmen at the trade deadline (Weber, Diaz and Kaberle), Bergevin made a move to get one extra D .... I think he should have been a little more aggressive and gotten better D depth.

I understand not giving away draft picks... BUT FOR ****** SAKES we have a shot at the Stanley Cup this year! The EAST is wide open and if you get to the SC Finals anything can happen. I don't think giving away one of our 2nd round picks (we have three this draft year) would jeopordize the habs future... but would have given us a better shot at the CUP!

I WANT A F**KING CUP ALREADY! It's been 20 years.

LOL. Just saying... I want to dance with the silver cup.

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04-07-2013, 10:51 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
People want to pretend like Emelin is irreplaceable, but he's really not. I don't think Kaberle, Weber, or one of the kids from Hamilton will be a significant downgrade, personally.

As far as Bergevin goes...you can't have a contingency plan for everything. If Plekanec was hurt long term, would people begrudge him for not getting a #2C "just in case"? What about if it was a top-six winger? A #1 D? A starting goalie? Where does it end?
Listen....

You cannot insure against any of Plek, Markov, Subban, or MaxPac going down to injury! That is a non-starter... these are core players that would require expensive trade deadline purchases.

All I am saying is that we should have picked up a veteran D to insulate our already hurting defensive depth... trade away maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

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04-07-2013, 10:59 PM
  #129
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Listen....

You cannot insure against any of Plek, Markov, Subban, or MaxPac going down to injury! That is a non-starter... these are core players that would require expensive trade deadline purchases.

All I am saying is that we should have picked up a veteran D to insulate our already hurting defensive depth... trade away maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
We got Drewiske.
Bring Diaz back, and you got to sit out that veteran D you talk of in Bouillon, or the new comer 44DD.

We did not need to trade for yet another Dman.

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04-07-2013, 11:02 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
People want to pretend like Emelin is irreplaceable, but he's really not. I don't think Kaberle, Weber, or one of the kids from Hamilton will be a significant downgrade, personally.

As far as Bergevin goes...you can't have a contingency plan for everything. If Plekanec was hurt long term, would people begrudge him for not getting a #2C "just in case"? What about if it was a top-six winger? A #1 D? A starting goalie? Where does it end?
I wouldn't go as far as to say he's irreplaceable. But people see the physicality he brings, and it's true, none of the D we have really bring that.
However, Emelin isn't the most comfortable player on the right side. He has had a lot of brain cramps from playing on the opposite wing.
If Diaz comes back, I believe we'll be even better than what we were with Emelin.
Having both on our team would be ideal though.

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04-07-2013, 11:28 PM
  #131
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if we're looking to point out mistakes... not signing Subban to a multi-year contract in the ~5M$ range was/is his biggest mistake thus far.

deciding not to pay massive trade deadline premiums for average players was a stroke of genius
I agree with the point about Subban. All off season he was primed and begging for a 4-7 year deal at between 4-5.5 million. Bergevin fought for this bridge deal and now they'll have to max out Subban at 8 years and over 7 per.

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04-07-2013, 11:53 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
We got Drewiske.
Bring Diaz back, and you got to sit out that veteran D you talk of in Bouillon, or the new comer 44DD.

We did not need to trade for yet another Dman.
Diaz has been out for a long time with a concussion... bringing 'him back' is not so simple.

Look, i hope the lot of optimists here are right and our D will hold up. I'm just not so optimistic... time will tell.

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04-08-2013, 12:18 AM
  #133
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but it is not...he's given us a window with a norris d-man on a caphit of 2.6.....that capspace gives us aan oportunity to bulk up next year....and even though we may sign some ufa's or aquire contracts that extend beyond there....gionta...markov come off the books...so it gives us an excellent...excellent opportunity to win it all next year.....and we're right in the thick of things this year...i applaud everything MB has done
It also means unless Subban has a completely underwhelming season. He'll demand Karlsson money. He might even go higher to make up for taking less, as he has no reason to do us any favors. I guarantee teams will line up to offer sheet him if we attempted the hardball strategy again, and they won't shy away from $7-8 Million.

If MB gets Subban signed for $6M or less, it's a genius. If not, this was a mistaken, but nothing overly bad per se.

As for Emelin. Just call up Tinordi or Beaulieu and considered it done. Despite the going impression here, Emelin is not a stable on the roster and can be replaced. I love the guy, but to be honest, he has been rather sluggish and a mess defensively the last few games. I have no qualms giving either of the aforementioned rookies an opportunity to shine, although I favor Beaulieu.


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04-08-2013, 12:34 AM
  #134
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I disagree. Two years at a discounted price for Subban is gold, especially with the Cap going down next year. When Subban's contract is up, so will Markov's...
Honestly, Subban's current contract is not good cap management. You can add whatever realistic amount of money to that deal and it still fits under the cap for next year. Absolutely no gain there.

However, the contract may have been a good move in terms of pushing Subban to the next level. He doesn't have to justify a big contract, he's only got to play his game. Show them you can do it.

I don't mind the extra 1-2 mil.$ on the cap, he will be accountable to management, for many years to come.

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04-08-2013, 12:40 AM
  #135
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The DD extension was his first mistake.. 2 years would have been fine, but 4 years the way he has played since the contract agreement, ouch!

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04-08-2013, 12:47 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
People want to pretend like Emelin is irreplaceable, but he's really not. I don't think Kaberle, Weber, or one of the kids from Hamilton will be a significant downgrade, personally.

As far as Bergevin goes...you can't have a contingency plan for everything. If Plekanec was hurt long term, would people begrudge him for not getting a #2C "just in case"? What about if it was a top-six winger? A #1 D? A starting goalie? Where does it end?
There is no doubt that the Emelin loss is a huge one, he could both move the puck pretty well and be physical, he will be pretty hard to replace unless Beaulieu comes back huge and shows some consistency game after game.. His offensive skills could compensate at a certain extend the loss of Emelin but if Beaulieu fails to be a positive contributor to the team this year, Im not feeling very confident with either Kaberle or Weber in the playoffs..

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04-08-2013, 02:25 AM
  #137
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Extending DD for 4 years will be a huge mistake down the line...

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04-08-2013, 04:23 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
It also means unless Subban has a completely underwhelming season. He'll demand Karlsson money. He might even go higher to make up for taking less, as he has no reason to do us any favors. I guarantee teams will line up to offer sheet him if we attempted the hardball strategy again, and they won't shy away from $7-8 Million.

If MB gets Subban signed for $6M or less, it's a genius. If not, this was a mistaken, but nothing overly bad per se.

As for Emelin. Just call up Tinordi or Beaulieu and considered it done. Despite the going impression here, Emelin is not a stable on the roster and can be replaced. I love the guy, but to be honest, he has been rather sluggish and a mess defensively the last few games. I have no qualms giving either of the aforementioned rookies an opportunity to shine, although I favor Beaulieu.
cap going down, player share as well.

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04-08-2013, 07:00 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Extending DD for 4 years will be a huge mistake down the line...
Why??

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04-08-2013, 07:07 AM
  #140
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Diaz has been out for a long time with a concussion... bringing 'him back' is not so simple.

Look, i hope the lot of optimists here are right and our D will hold up. I'm just not so optimistic... time will tell.
Not so simple but he is progressing and expected back at some point.
There is no reason to be pessimistic. We've had to deal with our share of injuries to depth players for a while now.
Diaz was playing like a top 2 Dman before going down. It was a big loss. Yet we pulled through.
Prust was a key player for us when he got injured, yet again we pulled through.
Bourque was having a fairly good year as well.
We played a week or two without PK.

I mean, we've had to deal with missing players for a while. We managed to stay at the top of our division and conference. So it's not because Emelin is now injured that I'm going to think that the ship will sink. Especially less if Bourque and Diaz are back by the POs.

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04-08-2013, 07:13 AM
  #141
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Why??
I'm probably considered a DD defender here...
But the deal was probably one year too long.

250K cheaper would've been a nice bonus as well.

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04-08-2013, 07:16 AM
  #142
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I'm probably considered a DD defender here...
But the deal was probably one year too long.

250K cheaper would've been a nice bonus as well.
Really? That's what makes the deal a mistake? Only one year too long and 250k/y too much?

The DD deal is cheap. If he averages 50pts per year, we're getting our money's worth.
It's also not bad to the point of being immovable.
You can dislike the deal, but calling it a mistake is quite the stretch.

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04-08-2013, 07:18 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I'm probably considered a DD defender here...
But the deal was probably one year too long.

250K cheaper would've been a nice bonus as well.
i don't see an issue there. If we have no room for him we can trade him for good return.

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04-08-2013, 07:31 AM
  #144
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May see him sign Torres this summer where he tried to get him before. Probably the end for Armstrong if he does

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04-08-2013, 08:44 AM
  #145
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May see him sign Torres this summer where he tried to get him before. Probably the end for Armstrong if he does
Regardless Army should not be returning as Dumont can probably do Army's job anyways and will cost us a little less as well

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04-08-2013, 08:48 AM
  #146
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I personally saw 2 options for Bergevin and it was either going for it now or going for it at the draft. He didn't make any moves besides Drewiske despite plenty of solid picks in the top rounds and I still think he will make a big move at the draft and move up big time especially if the Preds pick is also a top 10 in the 2nd round. 3 possible top 40 picks and he can always combine that with a prospect or roster player and make a big time jump maybe even in the top 10 depending on that other teams need.

I won't judge him now but to be honest I would have liked him to make a move to get a little bigger up front especially for the playoffs. Let's see how things work out

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04-15-2013, 09:11 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I personally saw 2 options for Bergevin and it was either going for it now or going for it at the draft. He didn't make any moves besides Drewiske despite plenty of solid picks in the top rounds and I still think he will make a big move at the draft and move up big time especially if the Preds pick is also a top 10 in the 2nd round. 3 possible top 40 picks and he can always combine that with a prospect or roster player and make a big time jump maybe even in the top 10 depending on that other teams need.

I won't judge him now but to be honest I would have liked him to make a move to get a little bigger up front especially for the playoffs. Let's see how things work out
Hate to say I told you so, but after the last two debacles against the Leafs and Flyers it looks like our defense is royally f**ked. Our defense depth is not going to hold up.
Just disappointed that a great opportunity to make a playoff run was extinguished by Bergevin's timid trade deadline moves.

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04-15-2013, 09:12 PM
  #148
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The DD extension was his first mistake.. 2 years would have been fine, but 4 years the way he has played since the contract agreement, ouch!
The 4 years to Moen was even worse.

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04-15-2013, 09:13 PM
  #149
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[QUOTE=WakeUpNHL;64020349]Hate to say I told you so, but after the last two debacles against the Leafs and Flyers it looks like our defense is royally f**ked. Our defense depth is not going to hold up.
Just disappointed that a great opportunity to make a playoff run was extinguished by Bergevin's timid trade deadline moves.[/QUOTE]

Me too. A couple of big bodies for defence and 4th line would had helped. Too ****ing late !

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04-15-2013, 09:16 PM
  #150
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The 4 years to Moen was even worse.
Meh..it's still a good cap hit.

I think his bigger gaffes were not adding proper depth to the D and extending DD to that contract. If he can trade DD for assets then the deal isn't as bad.

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