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Marian Gaborik to Columbus for Brassard, J. Moore and Dorsett

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Old
04-07-2013, 02:07 PM
  #326
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Andre Deveaux was the real reason our locker room fell apart! Bring him back!

In all seriousness, Gabby loved the team, he just had a slow year and had the second highest cap hit on the team, so everything he did wrong was magnified 100x worse than it should have been. Wish him all the best, he's a top 5 RW when he's on.

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04-08-2013, 12:49 AM
  #327
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From the CLB board:

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Hate to say it - I'm not taking out pitchforks and torches here - but I hope Gaborik has more in the tank than what we've seen. $7.5 million is a lot of dough.
Gabby was one of my favorite Rangers, but I think moving him when Sather did was the best course of action for the team going forward. The tension with Torts was palpable. That one report where he and Torts had a 1 on 1 ten minute talk during a practice where Gabby wasn't even making eye contact with him was quite telling.

I'm still hoping Gabby finds his game and Columbus somehow makes the playoffs. I'd love to see the Rangers West go on a run. Very doubtful in that Western Conference, though. Next year it'll be better for them with the realignment. Can't believe they will be divisional rivals.

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04-08-2013, 06:23 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Oh Thats Nashty View Post
From the CLB board:



Gabby was one of my favorite Rangers, but I think moving him when Sather did was the best course of action for the team going forward. The tension with Torts was palpable. That one report where he and Torts had a 1 on 1 ten minute talk during a practice where Gabby wasn't even making eye contact with him was quite telling.

I'm still hoping Gabby finds his game and Columbus somehow makes the playoffs. I'd love to see the Rangers West go on a run. Very doubtful in that Western Conference, though. Next year it'll be better for them with the realignment. Can't believe they will be divisional rivals.
Sounds an awful lot like what we saw from him this year. That's why I believe the Rangers were willing to make the deal w/ the BJ's at the deadline, and not take the chance that Gaborik's value would drop any further by the draft.

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04-08-2013, 06:46 AM
  #329
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Sounds an awful lot like what we saw from him this year. That's why I believe the Rangers were willing to make the deal w/ the BJ's at the deadline, and not take the chance that Gaborik's value would drop any further by the draft.
I don't think it had much to do with maximizing Gaborik's value. Look at all the media coverage of that trade. The most consistent thing said about it was that Gaborik needed to get away from Torts. I'm not saying that's true but I think a lot of people looking at the situation believed that the coaching and "system" in New York had Gaborik playing defeated. Teams would have still taken a chance on him at the draft. I think management simply looked at the situation and said, "We can trade him now for this offer, get depth back we lost and bring in proven players, or we can wait until the draft and hope to get a first rounder back with a decent prospect and hope the kids fill depth holes next year."

Honestly between the Rangers mentality of always "going for it" and the kids not bringing any depth this season, it is not shocking they chose the former. I still wish they waited until the draft but it is clear by the reaction from this board that management has their finger on the pulse of the majority of the fanbase. People just want the team to win games and make the playoffs every year, even if it means perpetually lessening the chances of being a real contender. Everything that has made this team successful this year, when it has been "sucessful," has been that which was grown within. Stepan, Lundqvist, Staal, Callahan, and Hags before he went cold. They are all Ranger prospects. Rick Nash aside, why do they think big moves like this are going to make this team successful going forward? If the Rangers win a Cup anytime soon I will bet that it will be Rangers prospects who make the difference and lead this team to the championship. Just like most teams who have won the Cup since the lockout. Of course trades and FAs are necessary, but they are not going to be the heartbeat of your team.

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04-08-2013, 07:54 AM
  #330
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I have seen 2 of the 3 Columbus games with Gaborik. He skated better yesterday than he did in Nashville. Didn't see the Friday game in St. Louis. He isn't skating as well as he did last season. He played with Prospal and Letestu yesterday. He can't beat players anymore with his speed.

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04-08-2013, 08:20 AM
  #331
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What RB mentioned is the biggest issue I have had with Gabby this season: he wasn't moving his feet and looked slower than he has in the past.

Gaborik isn't as effective if he's not using legs and turning on the jets. If the Rangers think he lost a step and wasn't going to be as speedy as he once was, that was probably a big consideration in deciding to trade him.

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04-08-2013, 08:22 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
I have seen 2 of the 3 Columbus games with Gaborik. He skated better yesterday than he did in Nashville. Didn't see the Friday game in St. Louis. He isn't skating as well as he did last season. He played with Prospal and Letestu yesterday. He can't beat players anymore with his speed.
This is the biggest difference. His "jump" just isn't there anymore. He used to be able to skate around people and jump into holes. His quickness and ability to make people miss just hasn't been there. With that, comes more hits taken and then more injuries due to his history.

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04-08-2013, 01:21 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Honestly between the Rangers mentality of always "going for it" and the kids not bringing any depth this season, it is not shocking they chose the former. I still wish they waited until the draft but it is clear by the reaction from this board that management has their finger on the pulse of the majority of the fanbase. People just want the team to win games and make the playoffs every year, even if it means perpetually lessening the chances of being a real contender. Everything that has made this team successful this year, when it has been "sucessful," has been that which was grown within. Stepan, Lundqvist, Staal, Callahan, and Hags before he went cold. They are all Ranger prospects. Rick Nash aside, why do they think big moves like this are going to make this team successful going forward? If the Rangers win a Cup anytime soon I will bet that it will be Rangers prospects who make the difference and lead this team to the championship. Just like most teams who have won the Cup since the lockout. Of course trades and FAs are necessary, but they are not going to be the heartbeat of your team.
Totally with you that this team needs to do a better job at acquiring and developing talent through the draft (they've done a better job lately) - that is how teams become perennial contenders, rather than having just a few year window. I agree with almost everything in this paragraph... But I don't see how the Gabby trade alone does the bolded. I do not see how this trade can even remotely be considered "win now" mode.

It isn't like this team's future was traded away along with Gabby for those pieces. You gave up a one-dimensional sniper who was on the wrong side of 30 (we'll see if he returns to form - hope he does with CBJ, but we'll see), and who was going to become a UFA next year. I think we all agree that he probably wasn't going to be re-signed, so he was probably going to be moved at some point. In exchange, you free up a significant amount of cap space to re-sign RFAs, you get a 6th d with fairly good upside, 2 solid roster players who fill holes that desperately needed to be filled, and the oldest one of all of these pieces is 26. That would seem like the opposite of short term thinking...

The only thing in my mind that could have gone differently was getting a higher draft pick / 1st round'er. But it seems like Sather probably had that option and opted to go with Moore/Brassard instead (CBJ has been cited several times saying they were open to moving one of their THREE 1sts). And for those that wanted this deal but wanted to add a 1st onto it; I don't see how Sather would possibly get the three players he did AND a first... that is a huge return for a struggling sniper on the wrong side of 30.

The alternatives were waiting til the draft, at which point - you said it yourself: You have to hope his value doesn't decline further. You have to hope he can get a return like pick+prospect+ (I'm not convinced that some of the teams rumored to be interested in him ever really were -- i.e. Detroit's management is smarter than to go for a player like Gabby who doesn't fit their team concept at all). And then because roster holes weren't filled you have to hope the kids develop in time for next season. That is a lot of hoping. Not to mention that at that point in my mind Sather has less leverage - despite what has been said on here to the contrary - as it becomes one of his last chances to move him before he would be considered a rental and get a weak return. Even if you're able to make that deal, it leaves the team possibly without a top 6 RW, a 3C, a 6d, or a bottom 6 energy/gritty player - those are some big holes.

Other than that, if you keep Gabby for next season, while he could help for that season, it makes it hard to re-sign all of our RFAs, fill roster holes, and we end up losing him for nothing when he becomes a FA. That is the opposite of long-term thinking.

In isolation, I don't think you can really say the Gabby trade was bad for the team's long term outlook - just that it could have been better if Sather was able to get a 1st, which seems unrealistic unless you drop/replace one or two of the players we got in the return.

Now, if you include the ramifications the Clowe trade had on this/this has on Clowe's re-signing - because I don't think you can look at the two deals in a vacuum - then yea, I can see how losing the picks in the Clowe deal could be seen as a bad shake for the team's long term outlook. But personally, even though I have the same concerns as others about his age and playing style not being conducive to maintaining his level of play, I still like that deal and would like him to be re-signed (for a reasonable price/term).

You can't always be conserving your draft picks or building a team full of 20 year olds. Now, I get we're talking about the Rangers - and Sather - who have a horrible track record here. But at some point you need to strike a balance between the future of the team and the here and now. I think most would agree this team's core looks pretty good for the foreseeable future. At some point you need to know when you have the core in place, the depth in your prospect pool, or the faith in your mid-late round drafting strategy, to be able to make a run and give up some draft picks to get the complementary/final pieces in place to be a competitor.

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04-08-2013, 02:25 PM
  #334
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Mike Russo covered Gaborik in Minnesota. Best beat writer in the NHL.

The Wild were in Columbus last night

Quote:
2:18
Comment From Bobby Bones
Does Gaborik lift the jackets to a playoff birth

2:19
Michael Russo: No chance. And man, he was not good last night
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/201830011.html

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04-08-2013, 02:39 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
Totally with you that this team needs to do a better job at acquiring and developing talent through the draft (they've done a better job lately) - that is how teams become perennial contenders, rather than having just a few year window. I agree with almost everything in this paragraph... But I don't see how the Gabby trade alone does the bolded. I do not see how this trade can even remotely be considered "win now" mode.

It isn't like this team's future was traded away along with Gabby for those pieces. You gave up a one-dimensional sniper who was on the wrong side of 30 (we'll see if he returns to form - hope he does with CBJ, but we'll see), and who was going to become a UFA next year. I think we all agree that he probably wasn't going to be re-signed, so he was probably going to be moved at some point. In exchange, you free up a significant amount of cap space to re-sign RFAs, you get a 6th d with fairly good upside, 2 solid roster players who fill holes that desperately needed to be filled, and the oldest one of all of these pieces is 26. That would seem like the opposite of short term thinking...

The only thing in my mind that could have gone differently was getting a higher draft pick / 1st round'er. But it seems like Sather probably had that option and opted to go with Moore/Brassard instead (CBJ has been cited several times saying they were open to moving one of their THREE 1sts). And for those that wanted this deal but wanted to add a 1st onto it; I don't see how Sather would possibly get the three players he did AND a first... that is a huge return for a struggling sniper on the wrong side of 30.

The alternatives were waiting til the draft, at which point - you said it yourself: You have to hope his value doesn't decline further. You have to hope he can get a return like pick+prospect+ (I'm not convinced that some of the teams rumored to be interested in him ever really were -- i.e. Detroit's management is smarter than to go for a player like Gabby who doesn't fit their team concept at all). And then because roster holes weren't filled you have to hope the kids develop in time for next season. That is a lot of hoping. Not to mention that at that point in my mind Sather has less leverage - despite what has been said on here to the contrary - as it becomes one of his last chances to move him before he would be considered a rental and get a weak return. Even if you're able to make that deal, it leaves the team possibly without a top 6 RW, a 3C, a 6d, or a bottom 6 energy/gritty player - those are some big holes.

Other than that, if you keep Gabby for next season, while he could help for that season, it makes it hard to re-sign all of our RFAs, fill roster holes, and we end up losing him for nothing when he becomes a FA. That is the opposite of long-term thinking.

In isolation, I don't think you can really say the Gabby trade was bad for the team's long term outlook - just that it could have been better if Sather was able to get a 1st, which seems unrealistic unless you drop/replace one or two of the players we got in the return.

Now, if you include the ramifications the Clowe trade had on this/this has on Clowe's re-signing - because I don't think you can look at the two deals in a vacuum - then yea, I can see how losing the picks in the Clowe deal could be seen as a bad shake for the team's long term outlook. But personally, even though I have the same concerns as others about his age and playing style not being conducive to maintaining his level of play, I still like that deal and would like him to be re-signed (for a reasonable price/term).

You can't always be conserving your draft picks or building a team full of 20 year olds. Now, I get we're talking about the Rangers - and Sather - who have a horrible track record here. But at some point you need to strike a balance between the future of the team and the here and now. I think most would agree this team's core looks pretty good for the foreseeable future. At some point you need to know when you have the core in place, the depth in your prospect pool, or the faith in your mid-late round drafting strategy, to be able to make a run and give up some draft picks to get the complementary/final pieces in place to be a competitor.
Great post. That is my thinking on the deal as well. I don't know Dorsett and Moore well enough to know their true value to the GMs of the league, but I've always liked Brassard. Granted it's only a limited sample size, but since his arrival, he has already contributed as much or more than Gabby was this year (emphasis on THIS year). Throw in the fact Moore looks like at worst an upgrade over our current #6 and at best a top 4 D with some offensive upside - and then add Dorsett whom we haven't even seen yet...? All of whom are at least five years younger than Gabby and on favorable contracts going into the cap crunch year? (Plus a 6th rounder!) Not sure you could've done much better at the draft and it certainly seems to have helped THIS team this year. I feel like folks are criticizing just because it's been a down year and, frankly, they don't like Sather (with good reason in many cases).

As for having given up a few picks this year:

1) We do have a cupboard that seems to be overflowing with prospects, especially at forward. It's disingenuous to suggest that saying so is akin to saying the same thing when we had Bruce Graham, Lee Falardeau et. al. These are much higher quality guys who are much close to being ready - and who have already experienced some success at the highest levels. You could only begin to compare this group to the group from the mid 2000s if you subtracted Kreider, Miller, Fasth and Lindberg off the top.

2) The team as currently composed is pretty well stocked as is. We have guys of appropriate skills and talent playing at nearly every position. The prospects are only needed as depth at this point.

3) I'm not sure we'll get back into the first round, but I'll be absolutely shocked if we don't see a Boyle or a Pyatt move for additional depth picks at the draft. (It's also not inconceivable that you could also see something larger - they're going to have to deal one of the D at SOME point. The only question is when.)

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04-08-2013, 02:49 PM
  #336
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Mike Russo covered Gaborik in Minnesota. Best beat writer in the NHL.

The Wild were in Columbus last night



http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/201830011.html
Honeymoon is over.

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04-08-2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
2:56
Comment From Rach M
Did you get a chance to talk to Gaborik at the game? What was his reaction to you about the trade?

2:57
Michael Russo: I talked to him yesterday morning. Said next to nothing, but it's clear he felt it was time for a change. He has something like 5 goals in the past 32 games.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/201830011.html

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04-08-2013, 03:25 PM
  #338
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I hope the BJs get the good Gabby just for their fan's sake, but I would not be betting any money on it.

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04-08-2013, 03:58 PM
  #339
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Russo should spend two minutes in the box for over exaggeration.

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04-08-2013, 04:01 PM
  #340
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Russo should spend two minutes in the box for over exaggeration.
When people want to kill the local scribes, they should re-read Russo's comments and appreciate what we have here.

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04-08-2013, 04:28 PM
  #341
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Another point. Columbus was on record saying that LA's #1 was available - they never said anything about the Rangers' pick or their own.

Draft day is always more fun fwhen you have a 1st, but would you honestly prefer to have a #24 pick (or lower) over John Moore?

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04-08-2013, 04:30 PM
  #342
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I have to pinch myself everyday when I wake up and know he is gone !!! It is almost like winning the lottery having him out of here . Any GM doing there homework would have known he was on the downside and we were lucky getting what we did for him...especially if the Moore kid pans out for us .

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04-08-2013, 05:23 PM
  #343
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Another point. Columbus was on record saying that LA's #1 was available - they never said anything about the Rangers' pick or their own.

Draft day is always more fun fwhen you have a 1st, but would you honestly prefer to have a #24 pick (or lower) over John Moore?
This! A 1st round draft pick only gets interesting when it's a top5 pick, maybe top10. Other than that, it's basically roulette when it comes to picking and I'd rather go for a player who already has some NHL experience.

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04-27-2013, 05:29 PM
  #344
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So how about this trade now?

Brassard and Moore have been very impressive, especially Moore. And we haven't even seen Dorsett yet, who by all accounts is Prust with greater skill attributes.

I can't speak for his overall on ice play but Gaborik has 1 assist in his past 6 games after his small post trade flurry.

Shades of the Gomez trade to Montreal, but even better.

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04-27-2013, 05:36 PM
  #345
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I must say, i like the trade a hell of a lot more now than i did at the time. I knew Brass and Moore were solid but I didn't know they would mesh this well with the team and contribute this much to our success as of late. I think Moore has something like 6 points in 13 games for us? He's only going to get better and he skates like the wind. I am pleased.

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04-27-2013, 05:39 PM
  #346
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To be clear. I liked the trade. Gabby did not show up this year, imo. I was glad when they traded him. But I think it's way too early to hang a funeral wreath on his career.

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04-27-2013, 05:40 PM
  #347
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I think we still might be in the honeymoon phase a bit. I'm not sure Brass is going to keep this pace. Having said that, the trade looks very, very solid. I'm also very excited to see Dorsett.

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04-27-2013, 05:42 PM
  #348
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I think we still might be in the honeymoon phase a bit. I'm not sure Brass is going to keep this pace. Having said that, the trade looks very, very solid. I'm also very excited to see Dorsett.
Brassard at the worst though is probably a 3c who will put up 40+ points. If he turns into a #2, this trade turned out really great for the Rangers with Moore looking like he'll turn into a top d man.

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04-27-2013, 05:43 PM
  #349
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So how about this trade now?

Brassard and Moore have been very impressive, especially Moore. And we haven't even seen Dorsett yet, who by all accounts is Prust with greater skill attributes.

I can't speak for his overall on ice play but Gaborik has 1 assist in his past 6 games after his small post trade flurry.

Shades of the Gomez trade to Montreal, but even better.
If Dorse can match or build on what he was in Cbus and Brass and Moore can maintain what they have done so far, then this a big plus for the Rangers. I hope Cbus can get the best out of Gabby. Those fans deserve it.

I really feel that Dorsett has a lot to offer a Rangers team that needs a toughness element. The guy will go with anyone and he's pretty damn good player besides.

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04-27-2013, 05:51 PM
  #350
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Brassard at the worst though is probably a 3c who will put up 40+ points. If he turns into a #2, this trade turned out really great for the Rangers with Moore looking like he'll turn into a top d man.
Agreed. If Brass ends up playing a reliable 2C role behind Stepan playing a consistent 1C, this trade was a killing. If Brass ends up being a 40pt 3C and Moore becomes a solid second pairing guy, it's still good asset management IMO but not quite the robbery that it could be if Brass keeps up a nice pace.

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