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04-08-2013, 12:11 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I'll ask yet again for you to respond to post #50 in this thread.

Give him a chance? He's 25 years old. Rushed or not, he's been in the league for 6 years.

My "agenda" isn't against Brassard, it is against the Rangers' philosophy of team building.
And now is the first time he's been on a relatively functional team. Voracek has turned into a quality player after looking like he was rushed to the NHL his rookie year. Give Brassard a full season to wash the Columbus suck off of him and see if he can be a good player on a contending team. If not? We can move him for some picks. No big loss.

What is the Rangers' agenda of team building? Acquire young depth that can potentially be a solid contributor in the future? I agree with you about team turnover, but the Gaborik move was a fairly solid move both now and for the future.

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04-08-2013, 12:11 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Why would I go out on a limb when there is nothing to indicate that he'd be a bad playoff performer? He stepped up in the QMJHL and had a solid AHL playoffs when he was down there. If anything, his track record would suggest that he won't be a total waste in the playoffs.
Good points. His history 5 years ago or longer in the minors suggests that he'll be a NHL playoff performer in 2013.

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04-08-2013, 12:12 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Good points. His history 5 years ago or longer in the minors suggests that he'll be a NHL playoff performer in 2013.
Wow, boy do you like to twist what people say. My goodness, man. If that's what you got out of my post, I think you need to go back and learn yourself some reading comprehension. You can pull this **** with the new posters. I am going to see right through it and call you out on it.

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04-08-2013, 12:16 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
And now is the first time he's been on a relatively functional team. Voracek has turned into a quality player after looking like he was rushed to the NHL his rookie year. Give Brassard a full season to wash the Columbus suck off of him and see if he can be a good player on a contending team. If not? We can move him for some picks. No big loss.

What is the Rangers' agenda of team building? Acquire young depth that can potentially be a solid contributor in the future? I agree with you about team turnover, but the Gaborik move was a fairly solid move both now and for the future.
This Voracek stuff is way overblown now.

Voracek always produced the same amount of points on a bad Columbus team. He is also 3 years younger than Brassard. Voracek has always been considered a very good prospect while in the NHL, just on a bad poorly run franchise.

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04-08-2013, 12:17 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Wow, boy do you like to twist what people say. My goodness, man. If that's what you got out of my post, I think you need to go back and learn yourself some reading comprehension. You can pull this **** with the new posters. I am going to see right through it and call you out on it.
Right, you said he'd be average, whatever that means.

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04-08-2013, 12:19 PM
  #231
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Someone explain to me why he can't be a 40-50 point 3rd line center who gets PP time?

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04-08-2013, 12:22 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Someone explain to me why he can't be a 40-50 point 3rd line center who gets PP time?
Because he is dumb and Glen Sather traded Gaborik for him.

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04-08-2013, 12:25 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Someone explain to me why he can't be a 40-50 point 3rd line center who gets PP time?
He totally can be Darren Turcotte II

If that's who you want to go into the playoffs with, it's your call not mine.

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04-08-2013, 12:28 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
He totally can be Darren Turcotte II

If that's who you want to go into the playoffs with, it's your call not mine.
I would be more than fine having Brassard as this teams #3 center. Many teams have offensive 3c's.

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04-08-2013, 12:32 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
And now is the first time he's been on a relatively functional team. Voracek has turned into a quality player after looking like he was rushed to the NHL his rookie year. Give Brassard a full season to wash the Columbus suck off of him and see if he can be a good player on a contending team. If not? We can move him for some picks. No big loss.
I've already shown in this thread why this is a weak argument. Voracek isn't the only former BJ first round pick to be traded or to go to another team. They all did, but of the rest, none of them turned their careers around. Klesla, Zherdev, Filatov, Picard, Brule, Leclaire. Did any of them leave Columbus and improve? They either remained the players they were or they are out of the league.

Voracek wasn't bad for the Blue Jackets. His Corsi numbers were actually quite impressive. Furthermore, he's not 25. He's 23. He was the centerpiece of that deal for Carter, and the Flyers didn't trade Carter because he wasn't playing well. They traded him for a "culture change."

Also, if Brassard isn't the player you envision him becoming, how much are we really going to get back for him, at a point when it would seem like it wasn't just Columbus that was the problem with him?

The only times the Blue Jackets were able to get something significant for any of those bust picks was when they traded with the Rangers! Getting Gaborik for Brassard and Moore, and getting Tyutin for Zherdev were the only times the Blue Jackets traded any of those underachieving players for anything of value.

I just don't understand how the Rangers don't try to get a first round pick back for a guy with 2 40 goal seasons in the last 3 years, including last year. Just because he was struggling this year, in this weird, lockout season, doesn't mean his value drops so much. I'd rather have a first round pick in a deep draft than a 25 year old career underachiever who isn't likely to get much better than what he currently is, unless you aim to convince me that most players make that big leap after 6 NHL seasons.

Quote:
What is the Rangers' agenda of team building? Acquire young depth that can potentially be a solid contributor in the future? I agree with you about team turnover, but the Gaborik move was a fairly solid move both now and for the future.
Constant team turnover that often features reclamation projects, tweeners, and overpaid players slotted into roles they aren't suited for.

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04-08-2013, 12:34 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I would be more than fine having Brassard as this teams #3 center. Many teams have offensive 3c's.
And if he keeps up with his faceoffs I'll have no problems with that.

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04-08-2013, 12:38 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I've already shown in this thread why this is a weak argument. Voracek isn't the only former BJ first round pick to be traded or to go to another team. They all did, but of the rest, none of them turned their careers around. Klesla, Zherdev, Filatov, Picard, Brule, Leclaire. Did any of them leave Columbus and improve? They either remained the players they were or they are out of the league.

Voracek wasn't bad for the Blue Jackets. His Corsi numbers were actually quite impressive. Furthermore, he's not 25. He's 23. He was the centerpiece of that deal for Carter, and the Flyers didn't trade Carter because he wasn't playing well. They traded him for a "culture change."

Also, if Brassard isn't the player you envision him becoming, how much are we really going to get back for him, at a point when it would seem like it wasn't just Columbus that was the problem with him?

The only times the Blue Jackets were able to get something significant for any of those bust picks was when they traded with the Rangers! Getting Gaborik for Brassard and Moore, and getting Tyutin for Zherdev were the only times the Blue Jackets traded any of those underachieving players for anything of value.

I just don't understand how the Rangers don't try to get a first round pick back for a guy with 2 40 goal seasons in the last 3 years, including last year. Just because he was struggling this year, in this weird, lockout season, doesn't mean his value drops so much. I'd rather have a first round pick in a deep draft than a 25 year old career underachiever who isn't likely to get much better than what he currently is, unless you aim to convince me that most players make that big leap after 6 NHL seasons.



Constant team turnover that often features reclamation projects, tweeners, and overpaid players slotted into roles they aren't suited for.
Worst case scenario Brassard is Rich Peverly, IMO. Peverly was traded for Wheeler, no? I would say that is comparable to a 1st rounder.

I get the fact that Brassard underachieved in his time in Columbus, but why does that matter to the Rangers? If he comes in and solidifies the 3rd line, adds 40-50 points and helps the PP is that not a valuable player to this team? This is the deepest, at least offensively, this team has been at center in a long time.

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04-08-2013, 12:50 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
This Voracek stuff is way overblown now.

Voracek always produced the same amount of points on a bad Columbus team. He is also 3 years younger than Brassard. Voracek has always been considered a very good prospect while in the NHL, just on a bad poorly run franchise.
Brassard produced relatively the same amount of points. No idea what your point here is. And Voraceck was not always considered a good prospect. After his second season people began to doubt just like Brassard.

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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Right, you said he'd be average, whatever that means.
Nice. So now you finally realized what I said. And I never said he would be that. I said it's a reasonable guess based on his skill level, energy level, and past performance.

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04-08-2013, 12:58 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Brassard produced relatively the same amount of points. No idea what your point here is. And Voraceck was not always considered a good prospect. After his second season people began to doubt just like Brassard.



Nice. So now you finally realized what I said. And I never said he would be that. I said it's a reasonable guess based on his skill level, energy level, and past performance.
Voracek, coming off 38, then 50 points seasons as a teenager were making people doubt a 20 yr old who had been one of the only teams talents?? You are really stretching that one.

Brassard was the one who BJ fans were doubting since he was 3 years older than a guy who scored 80 points his first two years in the league.

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04-08-2013, 01:29 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
There's a clue right there. He's never played a playoff game. It's gonna be interesting.

Sustaining this 'momentum' is almost everything for this team. At the deadline I said they needed to go 8-4 the rest of the way to get 6th place, I'm very confident they're gonna do just that.
No he hasn't, but I don't think you can use that as a slight against him anymore than someone could say "he did well in Juniors and the AHL" in the post-season. It's all relative. He's still a youngish player who seems to be fitting in pretty well here thus far, and despite the ever-varying "end of his development" age that he may or may not have hit, he still has upside to his game.

I'm confident they can do it as well. Despite all of the questions and concerns I have about the front-office and their decisions, this is a better team than their record indicates.

Ultimately, I think there is too much "definitive" talk about a kid who has a lot of skill but hasn't been able to put it all together in the NHL. He's 25, and like I referenced above, that age is sometimes the "he is what he is" age and sometimes it's the "he can still figure it out" age. It all depends on your own opinion of the kid in question. I think, in this instance, the "We couldn't get more for Gaborik!?" mentality is swaying too many opinions.

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04-08-2013, 01:35 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I've already shown in this thread why this is a weak argument. Voracek isn't the only former BJ first round pick to be traded or to go to another team. They all did, but of the rest, none of them turned their careers around. Klesla, Zherdev, Filatov, Picard, Brule, Leclaire. Did any of them leave Columbus and improve? They either remained the players they were or they are out of the league.

Voracek wasn't bad for the Blue Jackets. His Corsi numbers were actually quite impressive. Furthermore, he's not 25. He's 23. He was the centerpiece of that deal for Carter, and the Flyers didn't trade Carter because he wasn't playing well. They traded him for a "culture change."

Also, if Brassard isn't the player you envision him becoming, how much are we really going to get back for him, at a point when it would seem like it wasn't just Columbus that was the problem with him?

The only times the Blue Jackets were able to get something significant for any of those bust picks was when they traded with the Rangers! Getting Gaborik for Brassard and Moore, and getting Tyutin for Zherdev were the only times the Blue Jackets traded any of those underachieving players for anything of value.

I just don't understand how the Rangers don't try to get a first round pick back for a guy with 2 40 goal seasons in the last 3 years, including last year. Just because he was struggling this year, in this weird, lockout season, doesn't mean his value drops so much. I'd rather have a first round pick in a deep draft than a 25 year old career underachiever who isn't likely to get much better than what he currently is, unless you aim to convince me that most players make that big leap after 6 NHL seasons.




Constant team turnover that often features reclamation projects, tweeners, and overpaid players slotted into roles they aren't suited for.
Because they want to try to win now? That 1st rounder, even in this deep draft, would only be ready to step in 2 years minimum. Let alone actually make a significant impact. Could that hypothetical player, down the line, become better than Brassard? Probably, I don't see why not. But that's not the point. They got a player in Brassard who can contribute now and for the next few years on this team.

I believe you mentioned before how it was clear that management is in a win now mode. That being the case, why would you (management perspective), prefer the 1st rounder to the 25 year old offensive center?

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04-08-2013, 01:39 PM
  #242
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TRX, bring it down, make it clearer - who is more likely to have growing pains, a player with a few playoff rounds under his belt or a playoff rookie?

IF he struggles I won't fault him, lots of very good players had to lose in order to learn early in their career. The fact that he's getting into the playoffs for the first time is a cause to celebrate.

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04-08-2013, 01:40 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by RangersChamps2417 View Post
I like what I've seen in Brassard. He reminds me of a more skilled Dubinsky. He goes into the dirty areas, has a nice shot, makes plays and is an excellent passer. I think that he came into the perfect situation and will thrive here in NYC
Your optimism has no place here. These player discussion threads exist only to dissect and nitpick every aspect of a player's game.

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04-08-2013, 01:45 PM
  #244
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I agree. We are missing out on 1 draft year. That's not a complete disaster. We have a very talented group of young guns who can make the step up in the next couple of years and we are trying to build momentum and depth. Brassard, Moore and Dorsett in stead of a package including a 1st rounder is the right choice in my opinion.

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04-08-2013, 01:48 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
TRX, bring it down, make it clearer - who is more likely to have growing pains, a player with a few playoff rounds under his belt or a playoff rookie?

IF he struggles I won't fault him, lots of very good players had to lose in order to learn early in their career. The fact that he's getting into the playoffs for the first time is a cause to celebrate.
Oh, sure. It's certainly more likely that he'll struggle a bit in the playoffs, I just don't think it's right to use it as a slight against the kid when arguing the pros/cons of Brassard and how we acquired him. I realize I was a bit lyrical in what I was getting at.

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04-08-2013, 01:49 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
Your optimism has no place here. These player discussion threads exist only to dissect and nitpick every aspect of a player's game.
Optimism is great isn't it?

What's not so great is comparing Brassard, saying he's a more skilled Dubinsky.

Come on now....

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Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
I agree. We are missing out on 1 draft year. That's not a complete disaster. We have a very talented group of young guns who can make the step up in the next couple of years and we are trying to build momentum and depth. Brassard, Moore and Dorsett in stead of a package including a 1st rounder is the right choice in my opinion.
Some might say we've 'missed out' on the last few drafts, so this year is not just one year. Plus, we have depth of prospects that we are reaching into with ease to fill holes? I don't think we're quite there yet.

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04-08-2013, 01:49 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Someone explain to me why he can't be a 40-50 point 3rd line center who gets PP time?
If we're rolling 3 scoring lines, I guess, but with this roster, there's just not enough talent there to run 3 scoring lines.

I like Brassard, but I don't think he's much more than a 'tweener. His offensive game isn't polished enough to be a 2nd line center, and he's not physical enough to be a checking line center.

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04-08-2013, 01:51 PM
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Optimism is great isn't it?

What's not so great is comparing Brassard, saying he's a more skilled Dubinsky.

Come on now....



Some might say we've 'missed out' on the last few drafts, so this year is not just one year. Plus, we have depth of prospects that we are reaching into with ease to fill holes? I don't think we're quite there yet.
Am I missing something here? Didn't we select Brady Skjei with our 1st rounder last year? Or are you implying that there was a much better option still on board and that's how we "missed out"?

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04-08-2013, 01:58 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Some might say we've 'missed out' on the last few drafts, so this year is not just one year. Plus, we have depth of prospects that we are reaching into with ease to fill holes? I don't think we're quite there yet.
Well, when you look at the draft classes we've had recently, I am not that disappointed and negative about the future. If we have 1 player each year who make the team and are solid, that's enough.

2007 we had Hagelin and Cherepanov. Bad luck there
2008 we had Del Zotto, Stepan, Gravchev and Weise who all played for us. The first two are important players now
2009 we had Kreider who is close
2010 we had McIlrath who is close to being called up
2011 we had Miller

Anything of last years draft is not really fair to judge at this point already.

To top that off, our team is relatively young. We are not a team like Calgary, San Jose or Detroit who rely on 30-year olds in every line.

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04-08-2013, 02:00 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by tjs252 View Post
If we're rolling 3 scoring lines, I guess, but with this roster, there's just not enough talent there to run 3 scoring lines.

I like Brassard, but I don't think he's much more than a 'tweener. His offensive game isn't polished enough to be a 2nd line center, and he's not physical enough to be a checking line center.
Why don't they have the talent to roll (3) scoring lines? Also, the 3rd line doesn't have to score all the time, just more than the other teams 3rd line in a 7 game series.

Hagelin-Brassard-Dorsett/Boyle

I think that's a pretty good 3rd line.

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