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"All Things AHL" Part II...

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04-07-2013, 08:14 AM
  #151
Celtic Note
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Dagostini 2.0
I don't see it. The guy is an aggressive, decent sized hockey player. Also, he is not known for his speed.

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04-07-2013, 12:18 PM
  #152
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I don't see it. The guy is an aggressive, decent sized hockey player. Also, he is not known for his speed.
In terms of production.

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04-07-2013, 06:30 PM
  #153
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Good luck with the Wolves organization next year, Blues fans. Just a terrible organization. I know they have a winning history but they're so obsessed with that winning history and their proven veterans that they make such bad decisions. I won't get into it as I don't want to use your thread as a platform for a rant, but just thought I'd warn you guys.

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04-07-2013, 06:36 PM
  #154
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Good luck with the Wolves organization next year, Blues fans. Just a terrible organization. I know they have a winning history but they're so obsessed with that winning history and their proven veterans that they make such bad decisions. I won't get into it as I don't want to use your thread as a platform for a rant, but just thought I'd warn you guys.
Any prospects that you think were negatively affected development wise?

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04-07-2013, 06:42 PM
  #155
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The Wolves played their 3rd game in 3 days today, a pivotal game against a conference opponent (OKC Barons) with whom they're competing for one of the final playoff spots, and yet they played their vet AHL goalie in all 3 games and gave their top line - comprised of all AHL veterans - a ton of ice time. The result? 5 unanswered goals in the 3rd period for OKC after the Wolves were leading 2-0 going into the 3rd. The Wolves coaching staff could have taken the opportunity to put in the backup - a Canucks drafted prospect who could use the experience - who was fresh and maybe given some of the other younger players some more ice time to alleviate the veterans' workload, but no, and it cost them.

I could go on and on but I won't. Just prepare yourselves for some baffling decisions which usually involve your prospects getting shafted when they could be making a difference.

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04-07-2013, 06:45 PM
  #156
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Good luck with the Wolves organization next year, Blues fans. Just a terrible organization. I know they have a winning history but they're so obsessed with that winning history and their proven veterans that they make such bad decisions. I won't get into it as I don't want to use your thread as a platform for a rant, but just thought I'd warn you guys.
We know already that their regular lineup probably won't have enough room for all of our AHL-ready development players. We know that they will need roster and regular lineup space for Wolves-owned career AHL veterans, to try to win as many games as possible. the result of that will be some of our prospects staying longer at ECHL Evansville longer than they should, as well as some of our prospects riding the bench and sitting in the pressbox, and getting less minutes than they should at The AHL level.

If we get too big an overload of AHL-ready players, whose career would be severely slowed by playing in The ECHL, those players will likely be "loaned" out to other AHL teams. But, the downside of THAT is that those prospects won't be able to develop chemistry with our other prospects during that time.

We will have to suffer from this temporary setback until the playoff money from long playoff runs starts rolling in, and until the fan base is built up from regular winning and high finishes (leading to chronic sellouts and much higher auxiliary products sales, and until some better Arena and concessions arrangements can be made). Maybe after 5-7 more years of winning and building up the financial stability of their NHL franchise, The Blues can then purchase or start another AHL franchise.

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04-07-2013, 06:46 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
The Wolves played their 3rd game in 3 days today, a pivotal game against a conference opponent (OKC Barons) with whom they're competing for one of the final playoff spots, and yet they played their vet AHL goalie in all 3 games and gave their top line - comprised of all AHL veterans - a ton of ice time. The result? 5 unanswered goals in the 3rd period for OKC after the Wolves were leading 2-0 going into the 3rd. The Wolves coaching staff could have taken the opportunity to put in the backup - a Canucks drafted prospect who could use the experience - who was fresh and maybe given some of the other younger players some more ice time to alleviate the veterans' workload, but no, and it cost them.

I could go on and on but I won't. Just prepare yourselves for some baffling decisions which usually involve your prospects getting shafted when they could be making a difference.
I think we are worried about playing time for Binnington and our defensive prospects as they have potential, but aren't sure-fire studs.

Jaskin looks like he could skip the AHL, but he and Rattie should have enough talent to get enough playing time.

We've had similar concerns already so hopefully Chicago is just a stop gap.

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04-07-2013, 06:53 PM
  #158
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Any prospects that you think were negatively affected development wise?
Jordan Schroeder, the Canucks' 1st round pick in 2009, is definitely one of them, although he is slowly getting his development back on track after some crucial experience in the NHL this season. Without Ebbett in the lineup, who was their top line center before being called up by the Canucks, the Wolves have resorted to using veteran wingers (Andrew Gordon, Tim Miller) as the top line center, rather than just promoting Schroeder. Luckily, with some added confidence after his stint in the NHL, he's doing just fine on the 2nd line with two other Canucks prospects.

Another one is 2008 2nd round pick Yann Sauve. Not much has ever been expected of this guy but he was still highly praised and used a ton by last year's Wolves coach Craig MacTavish and he improved a ton as a result. This year the Wolves signed a few more veteran defensemen and hired a new coach and Sauve found himself in the ECHL, even though he deserved to be in the Wovles lineup over more one dimensional guys on AHL only deals.

In terms of prospects from more recent drafts, it might be a bit too early to tell if they have been too negatively affected but you have to imagine that the backup goalie (Joe Cannata), who came out of the Merrimack hockey program in the NCAA and graduated to the AHL this season, might hit a wall after getting only a handful of games this year.

Anyway, you guys don't want to read a novel so I'll stop. It would just be a shame for you guys because the Blues have a large stable of prospects and knowing the Wolves, a bunch of them might be benched or buried in the ECHL. As it is, the Canucks have SEVEN prospects in the ECHL right now. SEVEN. Canucks fans are thinking that must be some sort of record. Just too many guys on AHL only contracts playing for the Wolves. There isn't any room for more than a couple prospects to make any kind of impact in the AHL, even if they are deserving.

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04-07-2013, 06:56 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Jordan Schroeder, the Canucks' 1st round pick in 2009, is definitely one of them, although he is slowly getting his development back on track after some crucial experience in the NHL this season. Without Ebbett in the lineup, who was their top line center before being called up by the Canucks, the Wolves have resorted to using veteran wingers (Andrew Gordon, Tim Miller) as the top line center, rather than just promoting Schroeder. Luckily, with some added confidence after his stint in the NHL, he's doing just fine on the 2nd line with two other Canucks prospects.

Another one is 2008 2nd round pick Yann Sauve. Not much has ever been expected of this guy but he was still highly praised and used a ton by last year's Wolves coach Craig MacTavish and he improved a ton as a result. This year the Wolves signed a few more veteran defensemen and hired a new coach and Sauve found himself in the ECHL, even though he deserved to be in the Wovles lineup over more one dimensional guys on AHL only deals.

In terms of prospects from more recent drafts, it might be a bit too early to tell if they have been too negatively affected but you have to imagine that the backup goalie (Joe Cannata), who came out of the Merrimack hockey program in the NCAA and graduated to the AHL this season, might hit a wall after getting only a handful of games this year.

Anyway, you guys don't want to read a novel so I'll stop. It would just be a shame for you guys because the Blues have a large stable of prospects and knowing the Wolves, a bunch of them might be benched or buried in the ECHL. As it is, the Canucks have SEVEN prospects in the ECHL right now. SEVEN. Canucks fans are thinking that must be some sort of record. Just too many guys on AHL only contracts playing for the Wolves. There isn't any room for more than a couple prospects to make any kind of impact in the AHL, even if they are deserving.
Thanks for the info.

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04-07-2013, 06:59 PM
  #160
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If you are interested in knowing more, ask orcatown or Tiranis. Both have an AHL Live subscription and watch every Wolves game. They're not as concerned about the situation as other Canucks fans but they too are frusterated by some of the decisions being made by the Wolves organization.

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04-07-2013, 07:05 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I think we are worried about playing time for Binnington and our defensive prospects as they have potential, but aren't sure-fire studs.

Jaskin looks like he could skip the AHL, but he and Rattie should have enough talent to get enough playing time.

We've had similar concerns already so hopefully Chicago is just a stop gap.
Regardless of how much talent Jaskin and Rattie have, if Sterling and Haydar are still with the organization next year, those two will make up 2/3 of the first line. Guaranteed. I believe Climie (the starting goalie) is also signed with the Wolves next year and Arniel has gone on record as saying he likes his workhorse goalies and starting them a lot. Climie has been that for him this year. Expect Binnington to maybe get 10-15 games in.

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04-08-2013, 10:21 AM
  #162
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As a former Rivermen STH, I've seen the Wolves a lot and have seen how they operate. They are going to do what's best for the Wolves. The Blues bought the Rivermen because they felt it was a benefit to own the AHL team and have the control over the team. I think they are going to be in for a surprise if they go with the Wolves. Maybe the Blues know this and don't care. They've made questionable decisions with the Rivermen so I don't know if they know what they are doing with their minor league system.

I'm hoping there is hockey in Peoria next year. I'm not as upset that the Blues sold the Rivermen as I am with the timing. Why wait until this late in the season to sell the team? It is going to be really difficult to get a new team in here for next season, ending 30+ years of hockey in Peoria. I'm hoping that the rumors that Minnesota is moving their team out of Houston are true and that teams ends up in Peoria. Vancouver could also end up having to stay in Peoria while they wait for the Flames to move out of Abbotsford. That could possibly buy time for Peoria to get an ECHL team.

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04-08-2013, 11:38 AM
  #163
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Jordan Schroeder, the Canucks' 1st round pick in 2009, is definitely one of them, although he is slowly getting his development back on track after some crucial experience in the NHL this season. Without Ebbett in the lineup, who was their top line center before being called up by the Canucks, the Wolves have resorted to using veteran wingers (Andrew Gordon, Tim Miller) as the top line center, rather than just promoting Schroeder. Luckily, with some added confidence after his stint in the NHL, he's doing just fine on the 2nd line with two other Canucks prospects.

Another one is 2008 2nd round pick Yann Sauve. Not much has ever been expected of this guy but he was still highly praised and used a ton by last year's Wolves coach Craig MacTavish and he improved a ton as a result. This year the Wolves signed a few more veteran defensemen and hired a new coach and Sauve found himself in the ECHL, even though he deserved to be in the Wovles lineup over more one dimensional guys on AHL only deals.

In terms of prospects from more recent drafts, it might be a bit too early to tell if they have been too negatively affected but you have to imagine that the backup goalie (Joe Cannata), who came out of the Merrimack hockey program in the NCAA and graduated to the AHL this season, might hit a wall after getting only a handful of games this year.

Anyway, you guys don't want to read a novel so I'll stop. It would just be a shame for you guys because the Blues have a large stable of prospects and knowing the Wolves, a bunch of them might be benched or buried in the ECHL. As it is, the Canucks have SEVEN prospects in the ECHL right now. SEVEN. Canucks fans are thinking that must be some sort of record. Just too many guys on AHL only contracts playing for the Wolves. There isn't any room for more than a couple prospects to make any kind of impact in the AHL, even if they are deserving.
That's pretty concerning...but along the lines of what we've already heard. I'll be honest, this concerns me quite a bit. The Blues had so many prospects this season that they started the season with 4 of then in the ECHL as it is. Now they're bringing in Jaskin, Rattie, Binnigton, Veillieux, Tesink, Hakanpaa, Edmundson, etc. (and it's been reported that they want Wannstrom to return as well) and I just don't see where these guys will fit.

Assuming the Blues go with the Wolves, this could be bad news for some of these kids coming in...and perhaps even worse news for guys like Sonne, Shattock, Nigro, Della Rovere, McRae, Grachev, Ponich, Shields, etc. who could get squeezed out.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

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04-08-2013, 11:43 AM
  #164
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That's pretty concerning...but along the lines of what we've already heard. I'll be honest, this concerns me quite a bit. The Blues had so many prospects this season that they started the season with 4 of then in the ECHL as it is. Now they're bringing in Jaskin, Rattie, Binnigton, Veillieux, Tesink, Hakanpaa, Edmundson, etc. (and it's been reported that they want Wannstrom to return as well) and I just don't see where these guys will fit.

Assuming the Blues go with the Wolves, this could be bad news for some of these kids coming in...and perhaps even worse news for guys like Sonne, Shattock, Nigro, Della Rovere, McRae, Grachev, Ponich, Shields, etc. who could get squeezed out.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I don't think any of the current guys were going to do anything anyway, but I'm really concerned about our mid prospects getting barely any playing time. I'm even more worried about Binnington.

Ideally, we are only with Chicago for a year or 2.

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04-08-2013, 11:52 AM
  #165
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Blues went NCAA with the first 4 picks in the last draft. Going NCAA and Europe in the draft may be advantageous if we do go with the Wolves. It will allow players to come to the AHL at 22-23 rather than 20-21, giving the Wolves more experienced players and giving our guys a better chance to play.

Regardless, the Blues have shown that they prefer having their best prospects develop in STL.

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04-08-2013, 12:33 PM
  #166
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Watters played his first game last night 0+-.

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04-08-2013, 12:41 PM
  #167
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Thanks for posting NuxFan. I think too many here had initial reaction of the move to the Wolves as "all good", ie less financial commitment, winning org. etc.

I've seen how the Wolves operate since they first came into the IHL. They were always an independent org. and built winners by getting quality free agents...no illusions of being a place to develop young talent.

Chicago was pushed into having an afilliation by the AHL which does not want independents. Pretty sure they would prefer to operate as before.

As the Wolves GM stated, they have "conditions" which any NHL parent will have to agree to.

Example of where StL will lose control: Peoria's game last night had Blues prospects Walters play his 1st pro game, Veilleux played his 2nd pro game and Hakanpaa played his 8th (in NA). Wolves would not be so respective to adding several rookies to their roster late in the year as they battle for playoff position.


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04-08-2013, 12:42 PM
  #168
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I'm fine with the Blues selling the Rivermen if that's what it takes to win a Cup. There is a negative trade-off, but I also believe there are ways around those obstacles (including returning to buy an AHL team in a couple years when the team budget supports it).

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04-08-2013, 02:03 PM
  #169
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Silly question:

Do we have to affiliate with the Wolves? Any chance we might get a different partner that might be a bit more willing to allow our prospects playing time?

I think we can all agree, if selling the Rivermen was what it took to get a close-to-cap team, I think we should all be happy about it. We've done a pretty good job of bringing up all of the best prospects to STL and getting them developed here.

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04-08-2013, 02:18 PM
  #170
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I'm fine with the Blues selling the Rivermen if that's what it takes to win a Cup. There is a negative trade-off, but I also believe there are ways around those obstacles (including returning to buy an AHL team in a couple years when the team budget supports it).
The Canucks were looking to buy an AHL team for a while, so it might not be as easy as we'd like if we want to buy a team again. Does anyone know how many NHL teams own their AHL affiliate?

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Silly question:

Do we have to affiliate with the Wolves? Any chance we might get a different partner that might be a bit more willing to allow our prospects playing time?

I think we can all agree, if selling the Rivermen was what it took to get a close-to-cap team, I think we should all be happy about it. We've done a pretty good job of bringing up all of the best prospects to STL and getting them developed here.
Very unlikely that it will be anyone other than Chicago. Nobody else seems to be looking to change their set up, so we're stuck with what's left.

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04-08-2013, 02:33 PM
  #171
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Got it, thanks

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04-09-2013, 11:30 AM
  #172
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Good news for IA. Des Moines looks like it's getting an AHL team (Minnesota, if they don't put it in Peoria).

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04-09-2013, 05:50 PM
  #173
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Evgeny Grachev, C, Lokomotiv Yaroslavl 2 (Russia) 3rd round, 75th overall
Status: Bust
NHL games played: 34

Once the top prospect in the Rangers' system, Grachev is a highly skilled offensive forward, who fell to the third round of the 2008 NHL Draft because there were questions of whether he would come to play in North America. However, Grachev was selected by the OHL Brampton Battalion in the 2008 CHL Import Draft, and was playing major junior hockey by October. A standout in Brampton, Grachev was named OHL Rookie of the Year for 2008-09 season. Although a natural center, Grachev spent most of his rookie North American season on the wing, in preparation for a career as a power forward in the NHL.

After turning down the opportunity to return to the OHL Brampton Battalion, which was the Rangers' preference, Grachev decided to play professional hockey during the 2009-10 season. Grachev's adjustment to the AHL, however, was not smooth. After two seasons of not living up to what the Rangers hoped for, New York traded Grachev to St. Louis for a third round pick in the 2011 NHL entry draft. After the trade, Grachev got an opportunity to play for the Blues, but was not able to impress St. Louis management. Now in the final year of his entry-level contract, Grachev is not expected to be become a regular NHL player.

Just passing this along what HF is saying about Grachev.

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04-09-2013, 10:02 PM
  #174
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Good news for IA. Des Moines looks like it's getting an AHL team (Minnesota, if they don't put it in Peoria).
Yeah, that's been the rumor around DSM for a few weeks now. More public info's been coming out the past 2 days. It'll be nice to have AHL hockey in DSM again but it's not concrete yet. If the Wild do put their AHL team here, hopefully it goes better than the last time. The last time, there were two main problems - absolutely abysmal ownership that was in over their heads financially as well as operationally (both the Stars and Ducks ended ties with them ASAP and the AHL actually stripped the franchise from them for violating financing by-laws) and an arena that was too big for minor league hockey. Assuming the Wild run and finance the team, that takes care of the biggest problem from before but 5000 people in an 18,500 seat arena makes for a pretty dead atmosphere. Even when they stopped selling tickets in the upper bowl, the crowds were still pretty lackluster. 2,500 in a 3000 seat arena for the DSM Bucs (USHL) was always a way better atmosphere. Couple that with the Bucs cheaper tickets, cheaper beer and most casual fans not beig able to tell the difference between Jr hockey and minor league hockey, and any AHL franchise in DSM has some work cut out for themselves. That said, I hope to see AHL hockey back here.

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04-09-2013, 10:12 PM
  #175
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Silly question:

Do we have to affiliate with the Wolves? Any chance we might get a different partner that might be a bit more willing to allow our prospects playing time?

I think we can all agree, if selling the Rivermen was what it took to get a close-to-cap team, I think we should all be happy about it. We've done a pretty good job of bringing up all of the best prospects to STL and getting them developed here.
The ideal situation in terms of saving money would be where the Blues down own the team but still have SOME influence on how things are ran, playing time, development, etc. That's actually how most affiliations work. Teams that own their AHL franchises have complete control over the decision making process (like the Blues do now with the Rivs) but the Wolves are the compete opposite to where they demand complete control with virtually no input from the parent team.

Finding that middle spot would be quite hard though as pretty much every other team already has an affiliation. If there was someone out there who wanted to own an AHL team like that, I would think the Blues would've just sold the Rivs to him instead of the Canucks and just had the Rivs work as they did before they bought them a few years back.

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