HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Is PK Subban the Norris Front-runner?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-08-2013, 04:54 PM
  #51
cphabs
It complels you!
 
cphabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WNY
Country: United States
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Breadman View Post
he has suter beat as of right now, still 10 games left
Yep.

cphabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 05:03 PM
  #52
Megaforce
Registered User
 
Megaforce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: St. Raymond NDG/Mtl
Country: Azerbaijan
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
BTW, the top +/= among NHL defencemen? Sheldon Souray + 26.


Last edited by Megaforce: 04-08-2013 at 05:14 PM.
Megaforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 05:08 PM
  #53
HatTricK09
Registered User
 
HatTricK09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,409
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
It's Pathetic to read some of the sens fan on the main boards.

- There should be an * beside this year winner
- They should not give the trophee
Bet they wouldn't be saying this if Karlsson was healthy and a candidate for the Norris right now

I don't care if Subban wins it or not, I only care if he keeps playing like this next year, and for the years he'll be with us.

Individual awards to me is nice but the only trophy that I'll cry over is the Stanley Cup.

HatTricK09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 05:10 PM
  #54
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
BTW, the top +/= among NHL defenecmen? Sheldon Souray + 26.
This boggles my mind.

Dallas isn't a good team, he's old, not a lot of points... and having the season of his career.

When he scored nearly 30 goals and 60+ points he was -28, in contrast.

poetryinmotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 05:14 PM
  #55
Gustave
Registered User
 
Gustave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Here
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 2,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
This boggles my mind.

Dallas isn't a good team, he's old, not a lot of points... and having the season of his career.

When he scored nearly 30 goals and 60+ points he was -28, in contrast.
Anaheim.

Gustave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 05:20 PM
  #56
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
It's plausible but not likely. There are several plausible candidates and many factors go into a vote. However, I'd be outraged if the Norris trophy is awarded to an undeserving Zdeno Chara, for example.
You think that it's no likely he wins it? Hmmm... I have trouble seeing how anyone outside of Suter deserves it more

417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 05:23 PM
  #57
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
Anaheim.
Ahhhh, now it all makes sense!

poetryinmotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 05:30 PM
  #58
Gustave
Registered User
 
Gustave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Here
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 2,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Ahhhh, now it all makes sense!
If anyone is + 25 this year with Dallas, they need to stop giving the Norris and retire it in honor of that D.

Gustave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 05:53 PM
  #59
lou4gehrig
Registered User
 
lou4gehrig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Germaine View Post
He should be , but he could always get Mike Green'd.
Playing with a Hart trophy level player takes alot of votes away. It opens the ice up and draws alot attention especially on the PP. Letang obviously loses alot of votes playing with Crosby and Malkin.

Habs have a decent forward line but certainly no stars yet. And PK leads the team in scoring.

Oh yeah in 84 Coffey didn't win Norris despite 40 goals and 126 points. Bourque had 96 and didn't win. Langway with 32 points won.


Last edited by lou4gehrig: 04-08-2013 at 06:02 PM.
lou4gehrig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 06:06 PM
  #60
Frankenheimer
Registered User
 
Frankenheimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: MTL
Posts: 1,896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post

Oh yeah in 84 Coffey didn't win Norris despite 40 goals and 126 points. Bourque had 96 and didn't win. Langway with 32 points won.
Coffey was a fourth forward playing in the position allotted to defenseman. Still though, incredible.

Frankenheimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 06:08 PM
  #61
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
Ovechkin can't win the hart because he had no heart for the first 20 games
He'll be a candidate for it if the Caps and him keep going the way they are.

Caps have a rookie coach, they needed some time to adapt.

But obviously it's Ovechkin, so he's overweight, lazy, out of shape, russian and has no heart.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 07:30 PM
  #62
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
You are saying that he's not on par with other Norris winners in the past because it's not a full schedule. Why should we hold that against him? It's not Subban that decided to cancel the season half-way through and run away with the trophy. The Norris is awarded to the best defenseman during said, season, period. There is no * as you imply and there won't be one. Every other defenseman has had the same amount of games to make a bid for it, and the competition is as stiff as ever, especially this year with a monster season from Suter. The only thing you can possibly make an argument for is the fact that Karlsson got injured, and even then, I don't think he was playing and better than Subban when healthy this year.
Absolutely not. I am saying this season is not on par with the other seasons. Subban is certainly on par with the other Norris winners/contenders, but THIS YEAR's awards are simply a bit less valid than a full season's.

Subban will most likely be nominated time and again in the years to come. The fact that his 1st real contention for the title happened on a half-season doesn't take it away from him. It's just that.. well, it's merely a half-season. That he completely dominated

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2013, 07:32 PM
  #63
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
But that's just wrong. I mean, sure, dominating over 82 games is different than 48, no doubt about it. It's almost half the games.

However, it's not like PK is the only one playing that short season. Every other Dman in the NHL is going through it as well, and none of them are playing better than PK.
So who cares if 82 is different than 48? At the end of the day, today, PK is better than every other Dman in the NHL and that's all that matters.

Maybe PK would get injured at game #50, maybe he wouldn't. Maybe he'd keep up his pace and progression, maybe not. Completely irrelevant.
Which is why he'll deserve the Norris for this year. However, Norris 2013 will be "for 48 games" whereas Norris for 05-12 will be "for 82 games", which are a bit more impressive.

Again, it's not a notch on Subban's quality of play, nor quality as a player. It's a notch on THIS SEASON, and the fact that all awards will be a bit less weighty than they would be for a normal season.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 08:13 AM
  #64
JohnnyDrama21
HFB Partner
 
JohnnyDrama21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cleveland, OH
Country: United States
Posts: 554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
It's Pathetic to read some of the sens fan on the main boards.

- There should be an * beside this year winner
- They should not give the trophee
That's a rivalry for you. Any reason to discount something a rival does, it'll happen. Fortunately, as a Sabres fan, no one disparages us because we suck so bad already. Which was supposed to be funny but just felt sad.

JohnnyDrama21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 08:33 AM
  #65
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Which is why he'll deserve the Norris for this year. However, Norris 2013 will be "for 48 games" whereas Norris for 05-12 will be "for 82 games", which are a bit more impressive.

Again, it's not a notch on Subban's quality of play, nor quality as a player. It's a notch on THIS SEASON, and the fact that all awards will be a bit less weighty than they would be for a normal season.
I disagree on this idea. Sure, it might be a little tougher to win it in a full season, more time to go through ups and downs, more time for your team to struggle, more time for you to get injured.
However, this also means that in a short season, your opponents also have less time to go through ups and downs, less time to go through struggles, less time to get injured.

Essentially, it's very close. Sure, there's a slight difference, but I don't consider it to be more impressive in a full year.
Everybody is on the same playing field which is all that really matters to me.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 08:45 AM
  #66
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I disagree on this idea. Sure, it might be a little tougher to win it in a full season, more time to go through ups and downs, more time for your team to struggle, more time for you to get injured.
However, this also means that in a short season, your opponents also have less time to go through ups and downs, less time to go through struggles, less time to get injured.

Essentially, it's very close. Sure, there's a slight difference, but I don't consider it to be more impressive in a full year.
Everybody is on the same playing field which is all that really matters to me.
This is entirely subjective, sadly. The number of games played is not. You may be right, but there is no way to prove it.

Let's face it; there is the possibility that for some teams and some players, this year might be an anomaly. I doubt it's the case for the Habs, tho.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 08:54 AM
  #67
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,463
vCash: 500
48 games is simply not that different from 82 games.

DAChampion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 09:01 AM
  #68
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
48 games is simply not that different from 82 games.
It's 58%. That's a big difference.

Just think of the 2010-11 season, the difference in play between the first and the second half of the season for Subban alone.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 09:26 AM
  #69
jpchabby
Registered User
 
jpchabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,203
vCash: 500
Nobody talks about the 1995 trophies as less worthy than any other season, even though it was a shortened season too... I don't get why this year, people would feel the need to specify that it was a shortened season...

If Stamkos wins the Art Ross, no one would say he did it because of the shortened season (except for the Crosby injury, but injuries happen all the time in hockey...). If Lindros was the MVP in 1995, it's because he was the MVP during that season. Period.

I just... don't get it...

jpchabby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 09:30 AM
  #70
ZARTONK
Headscratcher!
 
ZARTONK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Armenia
Posts: 8,006
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpchabby View Post
Nobody talks about the 1995 trophies as less worthy than any other season, even though it was a shortened season too... I don't get why this year, people would feel the need to specify that it was a shortened season...

If Stamkos wins the Art Ross, no one would say he did it because of the shortened season (except for the Crosby injury, but injuries happen all the time in hockey...). If Lindros was the MVP in 1995, it's because he was the MVP during that season. Period.

I just... don't get it...
I agree, throphies aren't awarded to compare the best players from different seasons, they're given to honour the best player of THAT season.

ZARTONK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 09:36 AM
  #71
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
This is entirely subjective, sadly. The number of games played is not. You may be right, but there is no way to prove it.

Let's face it; there is the possibility that for some teams and some players, this year might be an anomaly. I doubt it's the case for the Habs, tho.
You don't seem to understand.

It's a shortened season for everyone, they are all on the same playing field. It isn't like we're taking 40 games of Subban playing like the best defenseman in the league and comparing it to others who have played well over an 82 span. We're not comparing goalies, everyone is playing the same number of games (unless injured). I couldn't care any less about the previous years, we're talking about this season.

Or how about this then. Let's just cancel the season, since every trophy is tarnished including the Stanley Cup. The playoffs will be extremely boring this year, since no one is going to want it. I hear most teams are uing this season as an exhebition for next year, when it really matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZARTONK View Post
I agree, throphies aren't awarded to compare the best players from different seasons, they're given to honour the best player of THAT season.

poetryinmotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 09:37 AM
  #72
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyDrama21 View Post
That's a rivalry for you. Any reason to discount something a rival does, it'll happen. Fortunately, as a Sabres fan, no one disparages us because we suck so bad already. Which was supposed to be funny but just felt sad.
This rivalry is as one-sided as they come. Sens fans desperately want to get some attention from other teams' fans like the Leafs, Habs and Bruins. Reality is; Habs fans, among others, don't give a rats ass about their team or their fans for what it's worth.

HiggsBozon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 09:40 AM
  #73
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I disagree on this idea. Sure, it might be a little tougher to win it in a full season, more time to go through ups and downs, more time for your team to struggle, more time for you to get injured.
However, this also means that in a short season, your opponents also have less time to go through ups and downs, less time to go through struggles, less time to get injured.

Essentially, it's very close. Sure, there's a slight difference, but I don't consider it to be more impressive in a full year.
Everybody is on the same playing field which is all that really matters to me.
Thing is, it's not like Subban is not fighting on equal ground. Yes, he'd win it after a 48 games season, that being said, all the other Ds out there had to dominate for as little as 48 games, not all 82 you usually play in a season. It's not like every d-men out there played 82 games, and the evaluation of PK's play was only for his first 48 games. They fight on equal ground.

HiggsBozon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:08 AM
  #74
Fergy22
Registered User
 
Fergy22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ft Wayne
Country: United States
Posts: 241
vCash: 222
Looks like he has already won it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_N...emorial_Trophy

Fergy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:15 AM
  #75
ZARTONK
Headscratcher!
 
ZARTONK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Armenia
Posts: 8,006
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergy22 View Post
Loll

ZARTONK is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.