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Cory Schneider -- Our Saviour

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04-08-2013, 08:02 PM
  #51
luongo321
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
He didn't steal anything- he earned his position. Luongo had a chance this season, and was almost successful, at taking the position back but he didn't. Luongo has handled the situation gracefully with respect to the media, but Luongo let the trade rumours affect his game. How else do you want to explain a .904 save percentage, when Schneider has a .926 behind the exact same team?
I think steal was the wrong word. I totally think Cory deserves it.

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04-08-2013, 08:06 PM
  #52
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I am a follower in the church of ginger jesus.

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04-08-2013, 08:13 PM
  #53
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This is too funny, or at least it will be once the playoffs are done.

Cloutier was a great regular season goalie, blamed for multiple playoff meltdowns...

How about Lou, wasn't he the saviour at one point? Oh, wait, he's the problem now.

Now it's Schnieder's turn....

I feel sorry for the guy, he hasn't even won a single playoff series yet, but he's being annointed the new saviour! No pressure!

It's getting tired, at least he only has two years to be blamed for this teams playoff meltdowns before he can get out of here.

Then we can go to town on Lack and the 'why did we trade Lou? Gillis suxs!' threads can start!

So predictable it hurts (:-(
Cloutier had Lidstrom's goal from centre ice hanging over his head (which arguably led to our loss in that series). Cloutier also allowed 15 goals in games 5, 6, and 7 against the Wild, which resulted in a playoff series loss despite being up 3-1 after game 4. The blame is justified.


In 2009, Luongo allowed 11 goals in games 5 and 6 against Chicago leading to our playoff series loss. He let in 5 goals in the elimination game against Chicago the year after. In game 3 of the VAN-BOS finals, he completely let the team down by allowing them to score a goal 11 seconds into the period, which snowballed into an 8-1 loss. When the games were at their highest stakes, Luongo has performed both exceptionally at times and has melted down at times. He earned his playoff reputation. The blame on him is justified because exceptional play does not balance out terrible play.


The two common things between Cloutier and Luongo that lead to their meltdowns is mental concentration. They both lost concentration at times, and worried too much about external factors, which led to bad goaltending. They let the pressure get to them. Schneider is different in this regard. When the games matter, Schneider is at his best. What the fans want is a goaltender who consistently plays at an expected level, with bad games here and there but NOT when something is on the line. If Schneider melts down in game 5 of a 2-2 series, then yes, he deserves the blame. There is nothing wrong with fans blaming goaltenders when their goaltender is actually to blame for something.

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04-08-2013, 08:35 PM
  #54
luongo321
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
Cloutier had Lidstrom's goal from centre ice hanging over his head (which arguably led to our loss in that series). Cloutier also allowed 15 goals in games 5, 6, and 7 against the Wild, which resulted in a playoff series loss despite being up 3-1 after game 4. The blame is justified.


In 2009, Luongo allowed 11 goals in games 5 and 6 against Chicago leading to our playoff series loss. He let in 5 goals in the elimination game against Chicago the year after. In game 3 of the VAN-BOS finals, he completely let the team down by allowing them to score a goal 11 seconds into the period, which snowballed into an 8-1 loss. When the games were at their highest stakes, Luongo has performed both exceptionally at times and has melted down at times. He earned his playoff reputation. The blame on him is justified because exceptional play does not balance out terrible play.


The two common things between Cloutier and Luongo that lead to their meltdowns is mental concentration. They both lost concentration at times, and worried too much about external factors, which led to bad goaltending. They let the pressure get to them. Schneider is different in this regard. When the games matter, Schneider is at his best. What the fans want is a goaltender who consistently plays at an expected level, with bad games here and there but NOT when something is on the line. If Schneider melts down in game 5 of a 2-2 series, then yes, he deserves the blame. There is nothing wrong with fans blaming goaltenders when their goaltender is actually to blame for something.




I don't think we can say this for sure about Schneider yet. He hasn't been tested enough when the pressure is actually on. I do remember him playing very well in game 6 against the Hawks, except that he made horrendous decisions when he came out to play the puck which resulted in chicago coming back. He also cramped up on a penalty shot where Chicago ended up scoring-getting dehydrated from all of that pressure? Oh yeah, Lu had to come in right after that. He played incredible in 3 playoff games vs. the kings with nothing to lose in the sense that we were already down 3-0 so he wasn't expected to complete the comeback. He pulled a Luongo in the first game of the season against the Ducks.

When Lu is losing a game in the playoffs he has had the door blown off and melted down. I don't give a damn how much pride Luongo has, but AV should have pulled him much sooner. We all know when Lu is off of his game. He should have pulled him on many occasions both to calm lu down and also to not give the other team so much damn confidence. That is on AV for letting this pattern go on and on. You just can't let your goalie meltdown in the finals. It gives the other team an unflappable confidence. We've all seen Lu pull this act, but I believe AV also plays a large part in this. He should pulled him sooner in a lot of games. On the other hand, that Chicago team has always been an offensive powerhouse. They can light any team up when they are at their best. In the Bruins series, Lu did have meltdowns, but our team was also completely done after Hamhuis's injury. It couldn't have helped a headcase like Lu when your team scores 8 goals in 7 games.

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04-08-2013, 08:52 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
He earned his playoff reputation. The blame on him is justified because exceptional play does not balance out terrible play.
That's exactly how I feel about Edler and his never-ending parade of brain cramps.

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04-08-2013, 11:43 PM
  #56
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oh look, 5 shutouts now.

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04-08-2013, 11:47 PM
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oh look, 5 shutouts now.
He's looking unbeatable right now. I think he's going to be a Vezina finalist.

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04-08-2013, 11:50 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Taco Fingerhat View Post
He's looking unbeatable right now. I think he's going to be a Vezina finalist.
T-1st in shutouts
T-2nd in Save %
6th in GAA
13th in wins

Not too shabby. Not too shabby at all.

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04-08-2013, 11:54 PM
  #59
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Imagine Schneider's numbers had he not had those few bad games that hurt his stats.

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04-08-2013, 11:55 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Taco Fingerhat View Post
He's looking unbeatable right now. I think he's going to be a Vezina finalist.
Pretty good possibility of that, or even maybe winning it if he stays as hot as he has been.

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04-08-2013, 11:56 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by King of Anarchy View Post
T-1st in shutouts
T-2nd in Save %
6th in GAA
13th in wins

Not too shabby. Not too shabby at all.
13th in wins might hurt, and he needs to be higher in GAA. Both are possible to remedy over the next 9 games.

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04-08-2013, 11:58 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
That's exactly how I feel about Edler and his never-ending parade of brain cramps.
Quote:
“Any injury you have that’s coming back, you get a little extra cautious,” Edler said. “But we’ve got great doctors here and we’ve been talking a lot. Obviously, it’s been very frustrating. But you’ve got to trust the doctors that it’s going to heal, probably not to 100 per cent. But I wasn’t 100 per cent last year, either, and I played all 82 games.”

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/I...#ixzz2PwFC6LUf
Edler's play has not been great this year, nor has it been since that back injury. He racked up points but he wasn't the same defenseman as he was pre-injury. He reminds me of Ohlund... dominant defenseman who is/was derailed by a serious injury (back/eye).. while Ohlund couldn't capitalize on his offense, he became focused defensively and was a great shutdown defenseman for the Canucks. Edler, on the other hand, can't reach the same level of defense/physicality pre-back injury, but his offense is still there.

Edler gets unfair treatment because of his expectations, but people don't give him credit for playing through the pain. Edler's back was fine up until the injury, but with the injury, he has had to learn to adjust to lessen the strain... which means he can't skate as hard as he wants, can't position his body as well as he wants, can't shoot as hard as he wants, etc. for fear of re-injuring the back. He was still coming into form before the injury and with the injury, he has had to readjust and learn again.

I can give Edler a pass. Back injuries are absolutely awful. His game is affected to the point where I don't think he can be the #1 guy anymore. Like Ohlund, he'll be a solid #2/3 who excels at offense (although Ohlund excelled at defense).

As for his brain cramps, they too can be explained by the back injury. Pre-injury, his decisions were almost instantaneously- he saw the play, broke it down, and went straight for it. Being a young defenseman, he wasn't perfect, but he was pretty good. Post-injury, he has to weigh the potential-back-aggravation when making decisions. This obviously slows him down, which has shown in a slight hesitation that makes him a bit slower in deciding what to do (in addition to being slower physically). Given time, he'll make these decisions quicker and will cut down on errors. He has played one way his entire life and now he's forced to make an adjustment.

I mean, you'll see Edler go beast-mode once in a while... I guess those are days when his back isn't bothering him as much.


To summarize: Edler's back injury forces him to think about potential back aggravation before making a decision, which slows his decision making process down. His injury also slows him down physically. Back injuries are to blame for his poor play, and he might not ever be the #1 that we expect him to be as a result.

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04-08-2013, 11:58 PM
  #63
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they are just showcasing this guy so we can trade him in the offseason, note the numerous starts against offensively challenged teams

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04-09-2013, 12:05 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ziploc View Post
13th in wins might hurt, and he needs to be higher in GAA. Both are possible to remedy over the next 9 games.
Given that he's played by far the fewest games out of all the contenders, and look like he'll end the season that way, he'll need to seperate himself from the pack in save percentage in order to be a finalist, IMO.

OT: but goddamit, Lundqvist is brilliant. He's been consistently the #2-3 best goalie in the league since that first year where Brodeur and Luongo were battling for a Vezina for crying out loud, and hasn't slowed down. I think he deserves to win it again this year as well.

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04-09-2013, 12:06 AM
  #65
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If you take away the first two games for Schneider which were absolutely horrid, he would be running away in this race.

I suppose you can say that about any goaltender though,.

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04-09-2013, 12:08 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Schneider is good, but he is no roy
You are correct. Roy is playing centre.

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04-09-2013, 12:09 AM
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[/B]


I don't think we can say this for sure about Schneider yet. He hasn't been tested enough when the pressure is actually on. I do remember him playing very well in game 6 against the Hawks, except that he made horrendous decisions when he came out to play the puck which resulted in chicago coming back. He also cramped up on a penalty shot where Chicago ended up scoring-getting dehydrated from all of that pressure? Oh yeah, Lu had to come in right after that. He played incredible in 3 playoff games vs. the kings with nothing to lose in the sense that we were already down 3-0 so he wasn't expected to complete the comeback. He pulled a Luongo in the first game of the season against the Ducks.

When Lu is losing a game in the playoffs he has had the door blown off and melted down. I don't give a damn how much pride Luongo has, but AV should have pulled him much sooner. We all know when Lu is off of his game. He should have pulled him on many occasions both to calm lu down and also to not give the other team so much damn confidence. That is on AV for letting this pattern go on and on. You just can't let your goalie meltdown in the finals. It gives the other team an unflappable confidence. We've all seen Lu pull this act, but I believe AV also plays a large part in this. He should pulled him sooner in a lot of games. On the other hand, that Chicago team has always been an offensive powerhouse. They can light any team up when they are at their best. In the Bruins series, Lu did have meltdowns, but our team was also completely done after Hamhuis's injury. It couldn't have helped a headcase like Lu when your team scores 8 goals in 7 games.
Seems like mistakes due to lack of experience rather than mental concentration to me. As for the kings games, that's an odd way to discredit someone? Never said Schneider was immune to bad games- rather, he plays bad in games that don't matter, but is a lot more consistent than Luongo in big games.

There were many factors that led to the losses against Chicago and Boston. Some were out of the players' control. If you ask me, Luongo was the best player in 3 of those games. However, he was also the worst in 4. Again, the problem isn't that Luongo can't play exceptionally on the big stage- it's that Luongo can't play consistently on the big stage.

As for Schneider, maybe I'm premature in calling him consistent in big games. In fact, I am. What I should have said is that Luongo is proven to be inconsistent on the big stage, whereas Schneider is not proven either way.

Given that Luongo is proven to be inconsistent on the big stage, we pretty much cannot win with him. Schneider is not proven either way, so maybe we can win on the big stage with him and maybe we can't. Not knowing is definitely a lot better than knowing for sure that you can't.

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04-09-2013, 12:35 AM
  #68
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In 6 years the OP will hate Schneider and be hope he's traded for Bozak and a 2nd.

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04-09-2013, 12:50 AM
  #69
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In 6 years the OP will hate Schneider and be hope he's traded for Bozak and a 2nd.
False.

I still like Luongo, I just think Schneider is currently a better goalie. At least half the teams in the league would benefit from having lu as their starter imo.

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04-09-2013, 12:50 AM
  #70
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13th in wins might hurt, and he needs to be higher in GAA. Both are possible to remedy over the next 9 games.
3 of the people ahead of him have played far fewer games.

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04-09-2013, 12:54 AM
  #71
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He's looking unbeatable right now. I think he's going to be a Vezina finalist.
Only a few games to go. He has to be in the discussion now.

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04-09-2013, 01:30 AM
  #72
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What worries me just slightly is how he'll play more than 50+ games in a season. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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04-09-2013, 01:39 AM
  #73
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new avatars needed for playoffs... sign me up for the saviour

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04-09-2013, 01:43 AM
  #74
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He's not in the top 3 yet. But he's working on.

Ginger shark. dun dun dun dun


Last edited by me2: 04-09-2013 at 02:19 AM.
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04-09-2013, 01:47 AM
  #75
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The two common things between Cloutier and Luongo that lead to their meltdowns is mental concentration. They both lost concentration at times, and worried too much about external factors, which led to bad goaltending. They let the pressure get to them. Schneider is different in this regard. When the games matter, Schneider is at his best. What the fans want is a goaltender who consistently plays at an expected level, with bad games here and there but NOT when something is on the line. If Schneider melts down in game 5 of a 2-2 series, then yes, he deserves the blame. There is nothing wrong with fans blaming goaltenders when their goaltender is actually to blame for something.
I'm happy Schneider's doing well and hope he is the guy that will lead us to a Cup but we don't need to take shots at Luongo or make stuff up to further the point.

Let's look at their resumes:
Luongo
-NHL - lost in finals (I'd say still team MVP in the playoffs though)
-Olympic Gold medallist
-World Championship Gold x 2
-World Cup champion (played semis due to Brodeur injury, but not finals)
- World Juniors - lost in finals despite standing on his head (named to tournament team)
-QMJHL title x 2

Schneider
-NHL - left a playoff game due to stress (against Chicago), played well in 3 games last year but lost 2 out of 3.
-AHL - lost in finals
-College - lost in finals
-World Junior Championships - lost in semis and then lost bronze despite being favored pre-tournament (Kessel, Ryan, both Johnsons)
-High school - never made it past semis

I'd argue in all except the WJC that Schneider played quite well but Luongo certainly has a better history of winning. There is no evidence that shows that Schneider plays better when games matter, as a matter of fact, despite making it to the finals or near the finals at many levels, he's barely won anything at all.

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