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Can Malkin carry us again?

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Old
04-09-2013, 09:56 AM
  #176
Dying Alive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
It's not just that. You also have to keep in mind the financial implications. Can the Penguins afford to keep both Letang and Malkin?
Probably. And if not they keep Malkin, he's the better player.

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04-09-2013, 09:56 AM
  #177
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This is the worst thread I've ever read on the Pens board

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04-09-2013, 09:57 AM
  #178
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There is not an athlete in the town more criticized than Malkin. It doesn't matter what he does. The minute his performance is "only" a point per game, a portion of the fan base and media turn on him and demand he produce. If Crosby has a below-standard game or week, not many criticize him. Even when he is lazy on the backcheck and commits drop pass turnovers. Both of these happened at the beginning of the year and little attention paid.

If Malkin takes a penalty or turns the puck over, he's unfocused, lazy, is Russian, doesn't care. No discipline. He returned from a serious surgery and dominated the best league on the planet, and people question his dedication. It doesn't matter how many times he plays injured and DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING, his heart will always be questioned here.

No doubt he needs to play better. Wringing hands and questioning his commitment and referring to him as "Russian" is ridiculous plus uncalled for.

Where does the thought come from that last year was just an 'outlier'? Maybe 2009-10 and 2010-11 where he wasn't healthy all year are outliers. People ignore his injuries and pretend he slumped. There's a very good possibility he is hurt now, even though Malkin won't say it to the media. When a person gives his best to your team for years and goes through everything he did to get here and live away from home, a little more loyalty is cool.

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04-09-2013, 09:59 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
It's not just that. You also have to keep in mind the financial implications. Can the Penguins afford to keep both Letang and Malkin?
Yes. The Cap will probably be up around $66M year after next. So at teh expense of more pricey bottom nine guys or bottom pairing guys, yes... we can afford both. Trading Geno is an asinine idea no matter how you try to spin it or play devil's advocate.

It's also a known thread killer so yinz "cap-and-trade experts" tread carefully.

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Old
04-09-2013, 10:00 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
Shero has said this before, and I will say it again, why would we even consider trading Malkin when we already know we would be losing the best player in the deal?

Just...no...to this entire post...no.
Cap management. A little math...


Salary Cap = $70.2-million
HRR Midpoint = $70.2-million - $8-million = $62.2-million
Players' Share = 30 * $62.2-million = $1.866-billion
Total HRR = $1.866-billion / 0.57 = $3.274-billion

Players' Share @ 50% = $3.274-billion * 0.5 = $1.637-billion
HRR Midpoint = $1.637-billion / 30 = $54.6-million
Salary Cap = $54.6-million + $8-million = $62.6-million


So the $70.2-million salary cap based off 57% of HRR would drop by to $62.6-million based off 50% of HRR, this is why the NHLPA so adamantly wanted a minimum cap of $64.3-million. In order for the cap to naturally reach $64.3-million again, HRR will have to grow to almost $3.4-billion; and to reach $70.2-million again, HRR would need to hit over $3.7-billion.

At the $64.3-million minimum, Malkin's salary could max out at $12.86-million. It's speculated that his AAV will be between $10- and $11-million. If you go with the lower value of $10-million, then you're spending almost 30% of the salary cap on only Malkin + Crosby. When you factor in other guys signed through 2014-15 (the first year of Malkin's new contract), you're spending 33.7-million (52% of the cap) on Crosby + Malkin + Neal + Martin + Fleury. It's entirely possible that some money can be saved on defense if some of the prospects can step into the NHL on their ELCs, but there's still the huge issue of forward depth.

The basis behind the idea of trading Malkin would be to spread the cap hit out over 2 or 3 players who are suited for 2nd line duty, thus providing roughly the same amount of cap space to spend on fewer players (making it easier to build depth).

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Old
04-09-2013, 10:01 AM
  #181
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His career is going downhill quickly?

Am I in some alternate universe where Geno didn't spend the last year and half absolutely dominating hockey in two different leagues? Seriously, he's having a bit of a down year(so far) but he's also been hurt and had his line switched up a million times.

Whats more likely A) he suddenly became bad at hockey or B) the injuries and line juggling has him a bit off his game?

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04-09-2013, 10:04 AM
  #182
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Evgeni Malkin at his best is the most dedicated and dominant hockey player in the world. I hate reading posts where people compare him to other Russian hockey players. He is nothing like the typical enigmatic Eastern European stereotype.

And Shero knows that. He could continue to bomb for the rest of the season and he will still be extended to the league max come July 1st.

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04-09-2013, 10:06 AM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
Evgeni Malkin at his best is the most dedicated and dominant hockey player in the world. I hate reading posts where people compare him to other Russian hockey players. He is nothing like the typical enigmatic Eastern European stereotype.

And Shero knows that. He could continue to bomb for the rest of the season and he will still be extended to the league max come July 1st.
You do know there is something called the salary cap, right? And you also know that Letang will need a contract extension too?

It's not just about some perception that Malkin is or isn't a typical lazy Russian, there is a financial aspect to this as well.

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04-09-2013, 10:10 AM
  #184
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Malkin will likely not make more than he is currently making so this whole "WHAT ABOUT HIS RAISE" thing is nonsense.

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04-09-2013, 10:11 AM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
You do know there is something called the salary cap, right? And you also know that Letang will need a contract extension too?

It's not just about some perception that Malkin is or isn't a typical lazy Russian, there is a financial aspect to this as well.
Are you implying that resigning Kris Letang will take priority to resigning Evgeni Malkin?

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Old
04-09-2013, 10:13 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
Are you implying that resigning Kris Letang will take priority to resigning Evgeni Malkin?
Did you notice how much trouble the Penguins defense had moving the puck up the ice in the last two games?

I'd like to keep both, but if I had to choose between the two I'd say Letang is the guy to keep long term, especially when you already have Sidney Crosby on your team.

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04-09-2013, 10:16 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Did you notice how much trouble the Penguins defense had moving the puck up the ice in the last two games?

I'd like to keep both, but if I had to choose between the two I'd say Letang is the guy to keep long term, especially when you already have Sidney Crosby on your team.
Except that Martin is missing as well. This isn't just a Kris Letang thing.

Letang is the far more expendable of the two Penguins based on prospect pool alone let alone who is already in the line up. Neither are one you want to get rid of but Letang is more replaceable.

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04-09-2013, 10:17 AM
  #188
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The day Ray Shero extends Kris Letang and lets Malkin walk is the day he loses his job.

Peace out.

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04-09-2013, 10:18 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
It's not just that. You also have to keep in mind the financial implications. Can the Penguins afford to keep both Letang and Malkin?
Yes. Yes they can.

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04-09-2013, 10:21 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Did you notice how much trouble the Penguins defense had moving the puck up the ice in the last two games?

I'd like to keep both, but if I had to choose between the two I'd say Letang is the guy to keep long term, especially when you already have Sidney Crosby on your team.
I think you are nuts for thinking that, but I can respect it. Letang is very important to this team. But losing Martin at the same time while adding Murray has compounded the negative effect of not having Letang in the lineup. We have guys like Despres, Maatta, and Pouliot in the pipeline that will help lessen the blow of losing Letang. We don't have a Malkin lite in the pipeline so losing him would be devastating.

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04-09-2013, 10:22 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
Malkin will likely not make more than he is currently making so this whole "WHAT ABOUT HIS RAISE" thing is nonsense.
He will. The bar has been set by giving guys like Corey Perry $8.625-million and Ryan Getzlaf $8.250-million.


I mean, the only reason Crosby's still at a $8.7-million cap hit is because they snuck a circumvention deal in last summer knowing full well they wouldn't be able to under the new CBA. Those extra 3 years at $3-million a piece are the difference between a $10.6-million cap hit (first 9 years of his contract) and the actual $8.7-million.

http://capgeek.com/player/476

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04-09-2013, 10:22 AM
  #192
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I guess it's been all on Malkin to make his line click huh? Not that James Neal hasn't bothered showing up for more than half the season, and the other wing has been a carousel of scrubs.

Yes Malkin needs to pick his play up I agree, but you can't expect him to carry an entire line.

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04-09-2013, 10:23 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
The day Ray Shero extends Kris Letang and lets Malkin walk is the day he loses his job.

Peace out.
He wouldn't let him walk, he'd trade Malkin in the offseason.

Quote:
Except that Martin is missing as well. This isn't just a Kris Letang thing.

Letang is the far more expendable of the two Penguins based on prospect pool alone let alone who is already in the line up. Neither are one you want to get rid of but Letang is more replaceable.
No he's not. The Penguins may have some good young prospects, but none of them bring what Letang does to the ice.

Quote:
Yes. Yes they can.
So then what do they both sign for? And if they do by chance both sign, don't expect a multi-year contract for Iginla.

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04-09-2013, 10:24 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by KHstrike View Post
I guess it's been all on Malkin to make his line click huh? Not that James Neal hasn't bothered showing up for more than half the season, and the other wing has been a carousel of scrubs.

Yes Malkin needs to pick his play up I agree, but you can't expect him to carry an entire line.
Why not? That's what he's being paid an average of $8.7-million a year to do.

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04-09-2013, 10:26 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
He will. The bar has been set by giving guys like Corey Perry $8.625-million and Ryan Getzlaf $8.250-million.


I mean, the only reason Crosby's still at a $8.7-million cap hit is because they snuck a circumvention deal in last summer knowing full well they wouldn't be able to under the new CBA. Those extra 3 years at $3-million a piece are the difference between a $10.6-million cap hit (first 9 years of his contract) and the actual $8.7-million.

http://capgeek.com/player/476
Malkin took a discount to play here before. He will do the same to stay. He will continue to average $8.7 million per season with more money on the back end (not making $3 million) at the expense of money on the front end (not making $12 million to start).

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04-09-2013, 10:27 AM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
No he's not. The Penguins may have some good young prospects, but none of them bring what Letang does to the ice.
You completely missed my point or you chose to ignore it.

PS there is no one that brings what Malkin does to the ice in the pipe line or in the rest of the league either.

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04-09-2013, 10:32 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I think you are nuts for thinking that, but I can respect it. Letang is very important to this team. But losing Martin at the same time while adding Murray has compounded the negative effect of not having Letang in the lineup. We have guys like Despres, Maatta, and Pouliot in the pipeline that will help lessen the blow of losing Letang. We don't have a Malkin lite in the pipeline so losing him would be devastating.
Depends on what Malkin would bring back in a trade. Letting him walk would be devastating, but trading him and getting a lot back in return could benefit the team in other ways.

Maatta and Pouliot are highly touted prospects, but so far that's all they are - prospects. Martin is a good puck moving defenseman and certainly did his share to minimize the effect of losing Letang, but he's in his 30's and only has two years left on his deal after this.

So yes, all things considering, I would say Letang is more important long-term.

Quote:
Malkin took a discount to play here before. He will do the same to stay. He will continue to average $8.7 million per season with more money on the back end (not making $3 million) at the expense of money on the front end (not making $12 million to start).
Are you his agent?

I hope this is true, but don't count on it.

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04-09-2013, 10:34 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Are you his agent?

I hope this is true, but don't count on it.
What has he shown you that makes you believe your view? I have history and quotes from him that make me believe my view.

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04-09-2013, 10:36 AM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
Malkin took a discount to play here before. He will do the same to stay. He will continue to average $8.7 million per season with more money on the back end (not making $3 million) at the expense of money on the front end (not making $12 million to start).
Not so sure about that, I do think he will stay but I think he will make a little more than that cause he won't be able to extend more then 8 seasons. Crosby got 12 years which makes a big difference, 4 extra years for a total of 34.8 million

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04-09-2013, 10:37 AM
  #200
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Malkin over Letang any day.

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