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2013 Draft Discussion Part 2

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Old
04-09-2013, 12:05 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
I don't necessarily think we will either..I think they will continue in the next 10 games to play about .500 hockey or slightly below. They won't have another winning streak beyond 1-2 games if you want to call that a streak. Colorado, Calgary and Florida are just in complete tank mode...
Florida is 6-4 in their last 10. The others? yeah I agree. Carolina is the team you might have been thinking of. They look like they want to end the season right now.
1-12 in their last 13 games.

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04-09-2013, 12:07 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
I don't necessarily think we will either..I think they will continue in the next 10 games to play about .500 hockey or slightly below. They won't have another winning streak beyond 1-2 games if you want to call that a streak. Colorado, Calgary and Florida are just in complete tank mode...
Florida is 6-4 in their last 10. Carolina on the other hand is in complete tank mode. Still if we split those 4 games, which we easily could have done. We're right in the thick of those bad teams.

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04-09-2013, 12:28 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Unless we win the lottery, I think our first pick is going to be Nurse. I hope our second pick is Jacob De La Rose. Both should be available in the second round. It would be nice to see a guy like Mantha slide into the early second round, but I took some heat for suggesting that as a possibility earlier in the season so I won't say it again.

I think a player like mantha would be good on the flyers, but I could see a team like the blue jackets taking him easily.

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04-09-2013, 12:41 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Haanz View Post
Give me Lindholm over Nurse, all day every day. Nurse, despite great upside, is far from a sure thing. Jack's post above more or less sums up my thoughts - the stud dman this team needs should be targeted through trade.
I just don't see why trade our offensive youth for a stud dman when we could draft someone and wait until next year where the UFA defensive group is stout.

I'm one of the few who would not mind two years of medocrity to get to the level that makes us consistently good. Keep our core and build around UFA and drafts.

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04-09-2013, 12:53 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by I Am Number 28 View Post
I just don't see why trade our offensive youth for a stud dman when we could draft someone and wait until next year where the UFA defensive group is stout.

I'm one of the few who would not mind two years of medocrity to get to the level that makes us consistently good. Keep our core and build around UFA and drafts.
The UFA crop always looks good two years out.

With the possible exception of Bouwmeester, Meszaros is likely to be one of the better free agents who is actually available come July 2014, setting aside aging short-term fixes.

I'm not thrilled with the notion of trading our young NHL youth for a defensive prospect at all, but if we end up in that 10-14 range with Nurse and Ristolainen off the board, I think you have to at least consider moving the pick--either to drop back in the 1st, or for a defensive prospect, or in a package for an established defenseman.

I'm also less confident in the Flyers' ability to evaluate defensive prospects. I'm thrilled with Couturier and wouldn't swap him for Hamilton, but by most accounts, the Flyers were prepared to take Siemens ahead of Dougie if Couturier hadn't slipped.

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04-09-2013, 01:14 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Sniped View Post
I think a player like mantha would be good on the flyers, but I could see a team like the blue jackets taking him easily.
Certainly a possibility. I think de La Rose is a less talented (only slightly) version of Mantha. Probably a little bit less of an offensive threat from what I have read. And he is a full eight months younger than Mantha, which I know everyone loves youth around here.

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04-09-2013, 01:35 PM
  #182
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I love Anthony mantha. I think he can be a great player in this league and could bring the deadly one timer from the right circle that we've been missing on the PP. he has a lethal shot and is big, fast and strong. I could really see him turning into a 30-40 goal scorer at the nhl level. I think he's really underrated.

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04-09-2013, 01:41 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I'm all for drafting Nurse, for the reasons that you've mentioned. But trading a top 10 pick + Laughton to draft him? I just don't see the value.

I agree with your assessment of Yandle, but more likely than not, Nurse doesn't end up better than Yandle--and certainly not for the next 4-6 years. It is far from certain that Nurse can be developed into a top-pairing defenseman, and even less clear that the Flyers are capable of doing so.

It isn't simply a matter of Nurse "busting"--I could have been clearer there. I'm just not sure his ceiling is really a #1D, and if his ceiling is a good #2, Yandle is the better option, since he is already developed and capable of stepping in and playing a key role next season, rather than 4+ years down the road.

Obviously I'd prefer we not move the pick + Laughton (if Mez had been even halfway decent this year, I'd throw a Laughton + Mez + 2013 2nd offer and hope the Coyotes bite), but if we are, I think it needs to return a surer thing than a promising project.

Yandle-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn
Grossmann-Gus
Gervais

There's no #1 there, but that's a decent defensive corps.
I agree, but what I'm saying is that we don't need a guy who can be a game breaker next year. This team is still very young and lets face it, were not going to be contenders next year regardless unless some major retooling occurs and our young guys take major steps forward.

Wouldn't you rather stray from the status quo of this team of just trading for other players who are good but don't get the job done or instead draft someone who may be able to become a gamebreaker while growing with your young core? I think it's time to choose the latter.

Why not keep those assets you'd use to get Yandle and instead add to the young core with first round picks or guys who can develop with the other young guys here? Maybe you go after David Rundblad or Brandon Gormley instead of Keith Yandle.

Keith Yandle is not going to magically make this team a contender, thus it's not worth trading pieces from our young core that could potentially make us into a contender in the future.

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04-09-2013, 02:02 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I agree, but what I'm saying is that we don't need a guy who can be a game breaker next year. This team is still very young and lets face it, were not going to be contenders next year regardless unless some major retooling occurs and our young guys take major steps forward.

Wouldn't you rather stray from the status quo of this team of just trading for other players who are good but don't get the job done or instead draft someone who may be able to become a gamebreaker while growing with your young core? I think it's time to choose the latter.

Why not keep those assets you'd use to get Yandle and instead add to the young core with first round picks or guys who can develop with the other young guys here? Maybe you go after David Rundblad or Brandon Gormley instead of Keith Yandle.

Keith Yandle is not going to magically make this team a contender, thus it's not worth trading pieces from our young core that could potentially make us into a contender in the future.
Yandle is 26. He's established enough to make an immediate impact, and young enough to be part of the team long-term. I'm not suggesting that we trade assets from our core for him at all--but Laughton and a yet-to-be-used 1st? Maybe. He seems like a very good partner for Coburn or Schenn, both next year and going forward.

I suppose it would depend on the difference in price, but I'd certainly prefer Yandle to Rundblad or Gormley. Rundblad, who is only four years younger at 22, has been quite disappointing since coming over and had some of the same deficiencies in his defensive game as Yandle, without the offensive production. Gormley is promising, but completely unproven. Would I prefer him to Nurse or Ristolainen? Probably. But I don't see a way to make that happen.

I'm not saying Yandle makes the team a contender next year--I'm not sure that anything they can do this offseason can accomplish that. But he would make the team better next year and going forward.

Realistically, what are the chances that the guys who will be available between 8-14 or so (Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pulock, etc.) end up better than Yandle even in their prime? Give me the prime-aged, proven 2/3D over the young, potential 2/3D any day.

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04-09-2013, 02:15 PM
  #185
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Don't Phoenix want Couturier and Read for Yandle? If so, I'd rather draft a defenseman and wait for him to develop.

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04-09-2013, 02:20 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Don't Phoenix want Couturier and Read for Yandle? If so, I'd rather draft a defenseman and wait for him to develop.
I believe the rumor was something like:

Couturier + Read + 1st (not clear whether this year or not) + 2nd (ditto)

for Yandle + ____ (with strong suspicions that it was Hanzal).

It wasn't clear who proposed that and who turned it down. It is hard to imagine the Flyers offering to move Couturier + three other assets for a defenseman. It is hard to imagine the Coyotes offering Hanzal, so maybe the whole thing was made up by the PHX media.

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04-09-2013, 03:25 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Yandle is 26. He's established enough to make an immediate impact, and young enough to be part of the team long-term. I'm not suggesting that we trade assets from our core for him at all--but Laughton and a yet-to-be-used 1st? Maybe. He seems like a very good partner for Coburn or Schenn, both next year and going forward.

I suppose it would depend on the difference in price, but I'd certainly prefer Yandle to Rundblad or Gormley. Rundblad, who is only four years younger at 22, has been quite disappointing since coming over and had some of the same deficiencies in his defensive game as Yandle, without the offensive production. Gormley is promising, but completely unproven. Would I prefer him to Nurse or Ristolainen? Probably. But I don't see a way to make that happen.

I'm not saying Yandle makes the team a contender next year--I'm not sure that anything they can do this offseason can accomplish that. But he would make the team better next year and going forward.

Realistically, what are the chances that the guys who will be available between 8-14 or so (Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pulock, etc.) end up better than Yandle even in their prime? Give me the prime-aged, proven 2/3D over the young, potential 2/3D any day.
I don't believe that the chances guys like ristolainen, Zadorov or Pulock turn out better than Yandle are that high, but I believe Nurse will be at least a better well rounded defenseman. Yandle is very one dimensional and while he provides a good amount of offensve and such, he's essentially a glorified Matt Carle.

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04-09-2013, 03:26 PM
  #188
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No to trading for Yandle. I would rather trade for Gormley and draft another d-man in the 1st.

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04-09-2013, 08:30 PM
  #189
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Loss to Isles pretty much kills the Flyers.....countdown to the Draft continues

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04-09-2013, 08:44 PM
  #190
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Time to rest any players with nagging injuries (particularly Grossmann and Briere) and get ready for a top 10 pick.

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04-10-2013, 05:34 AM
  #191
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The more I watch the Flyers, I really think that they should take Sean Monahan. Brayden Schenn, though still young, lacks defensive awareness and is subpar in the faceoff dot. B.Schenn and Wayne Simmonds have probably been the two worst forwards as far as turnovers and defensive play this year IMO. Monahan has great two way play, maybe on par with Couturier, and he is dominate in the faceoff circle and unlike Couturier, there is really no doubt that his offense will transfer. The comparison of Toews has been made a couple times. Move B.Schenn to wing for more than a week, and not his off wing but the left side, if management won't trade him. It will hide his deficiencies better and playing with a two way guy like Couturier or Monahan would help too.

I know the Flyers need defensemen, but after Jones there is no defenseman in this draft that will, or should, play in the NHL for a couple of years. Nurse is still a bit raw and should play for another two years in juniors to refine his game. I think the Flyers will upgrade the defense in the offseason no matter what with NHL calibre guys, so taking a forward 1st and then loading up on defensemen later isn't a bad idea. Samuel Morin has huge potential and he will be available in the 2nd. Plus guys like Mueller, Hagg, Thompson, and Theodore might fall to the 2nd.

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04-10-2013, 05:47 AM
  #192
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The more I watch the Flyers, I really think that they should take Sean Monahan. Brayden Schenn, though still young, lacks defensive awareness and is subpar in the faceoff dot. B.Schenn and Wayne Simmonds have probably been the two worst forwards as far as turnovers and defensive play this year IMO. Monahan has great two way play, maybe on par with Couturier, and he is dominate in the faceoff circle and unlike Couturier, there is really no doubt that his offense will transfer. The comparison of Toews has been made a couple times. Move B.Schenn to wing for more than a week, and not his off wing but the left side, if management won't trade him. It will hide his deficiencies better and playing with a two way guy like Couturier or Monahan would help too.

I know the Flyers need defensemen, but after Jones there is no defenseman in this draft that will, or should, play in the NHL for a couple of years. Nurse is still a bit raw and should play for another two years in juniors to refine his game. I think the Flyers will upgrade the defense in the offseason no matter what with NHL calibre guys, so taking a forward 1st and then loading up on defensemen later isn't a bad idea. Samuel Morin has huge potential and he will be available in the 2nd. Plus guys like Mueller, Hagg, Thompson, and Theodore might fall to the 2nd.
If we can't get Jones, I'd prefer in this order : Barkov, Monahan, Nichuskin.

I'd be weary of a Nichuskin pick though because he'll be in the KHL for another 2 years

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04-10-2013, 07:27 AM
  #193
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Well, Tampa won last night. Carolina gave Pittsburgh a good run, but ultimately lost. It is going to be difficult to stay behind Nashville unless they pick up a few more wins, but it is possible that Tampa passes us. Buffalo and Edmonton are hanging around as well.

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I'd be weary of a Nichuskin pick though because he'll be in the KHL for another 2 years
Is it certain that he will come over at that point? Kuznetsov was picked in 2010 and, as far as I know, is not expected in the NHL next year either. I just think the risk with him is too high. I'd be uncomfortable with the pick unless he was clearly the best player left--so if, say, Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Monahan, Nurse, Lindholm, and Ristolainen are off the board and we are picking 9th, choosing between, I guess, Zadorov, Nichushkin, and Fucale, among others.

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04-10-2013, 09:00 AM
  #194
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If we can't get Jones, I'd prefer in this order : Barkov, Monahan, Nichuskin.

I'd be weary of a Nichuskin pick though because he'll be in the KHL for another 2 years
I think it is possible that Monahan will push Barkov down by the time the draft comes simply because of the passport. I could see a team like Calgary, who is desperate for a top line center, rating Monahan higher because he is Canadian. I wouldn't even be surprised if they took him 3rd overall over Drouin because of their need for a center.

Current Draft Order:
Colorado: Seth Jones
Florida : Mackinnon
Calgary: Monahan
Carolina: Drouin
Tampa Bay: Nichuskin
Philly: Barkov
Nashville: Lindholm
Buffalo: Shinkaruk
Edmonton: Nurse

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04-10-2013, 09:03 AM
  #195
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I think it is possible that Monahan will push Barkov down by the time the draft comes simply because of the passport. I could see a team like Calgary, who is desperate for a top line center, rating Monahan higher because he is Canadian. I wouldn't even be surprised if they took him 3rd overall over Drouin because of their need for a center.

Current Draft Order:
Colorado: Seth Jones
Florida : Mackinnon
Calgary: Monahan
Carolina: Drouin
Tampa Bay: Nichuskin
Philly: Barkov
I don't think Monahan pushes Barkov down at all. He's the better and more complete player in my opinion. I see it going like so :

Jones
MacKinnon
Drouin
Nichuskin
Barkov
Monahan
Jones

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04-10-2013, 09:04 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Well, Tampa won last night. Carolina gave Pittsburgh a good run, but ultimately lost. It is going to be difficult to stay behind Nashville unless they pick up a few more wins, but it is possible that Tampa passes us. Buffalo and Edmonton are hanging around as well.



Is it certain that he will come over at that point? Kuznetsov was picked in 2010 and, as far as I know, is not expected in the NHL next year either. I just think the risk with him is too high. I'd be uncomfortable with the pick unless he was clearly the best player left--so if, say, Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Monahan, Nurse, Lindholm, and Ristolainen are off the board and we are picking 9th, choosing between, I guess, Zadorov, Nichushkin, and Fucale, among others.
I haven't heard anything about what his plans were after that, which makes it all the riskier pick. All of the scouts seem to agree that if he was a NA player, he'd be a top 3 pick.

Kuznetsov is supposed to come over after the Sochi Olympics though

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04-10-2013, 09:06 AM
  #197
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Big night for the draft watch:

NJD v. BOS
CGY v. VAN
EDM v. PHX
COL v. ANA

Would be nice for that EDM/PHX game to be a 3-pointer. Each has a chance of jumping the Flyers in the draft order.

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04-10-2013, 09:16 AM
  #198
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I don't think Monahan pushes Barkov down at all. He's the better and more complete player in my opinion.
I agree complete. But Jay Feaster is a bit of a wild card.He reached on Jankowski last year. He offersheeted Ryan OReilly as if he was a top line center. I could see him picking the Canadian over the Finn if their evaluation is close.

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04-10-2013, 09:30 AM
  #199
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I agree complete. But Jay Feaster is a bit of a wild card.He reached on Jankowski last year. He offersheeted Ryan OReilly as if he was a top line center. I could see him picking the Canadian over the Finn if their evaluation is close.
It's not like Monahan plays college hockey. That's what Feaster really likes.

Also, Nashville may be ahead of the Flyers right now, but it's only by 1 point and they've played 2 more games than them. I could definitely see them passing them the Flyers in that regard. Outside of Calgary, their facing mostly good teams and teams that really need the points (Detroit 2x, Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Vancouver). There's a team that could really use a Monahan or a Barkov.

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04-10-2013, 09:47 AM
  #200
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It's not like Monahan plays college hockey. That's what Feaster really likes.

Also, Nashville may be ahead of the Flyers right now, but it's only by 1 point and they've played 2 more games than them. I could definitely see them passing them the Flyers in that regard. Outside of Calgary, their facing mostly good teams and teams that really need the points (Detroit 2x, Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Vancouver). There's a team that could really use a Monahan or a Barkov.
Yeah, Barkov seems like a perfect fit for Nashville--or a guy like Lindholm.

Carolina is really the wildcard in the top-6/7. You can go down the list and it seems like most teams have a BPA that lines up with organizational need, but the Canes don't need a center, and I'd be a bit surprised to see them take Nichushkin. If Nurse's stock is really rising as quickly as some suggest, I think he could be their guy.

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