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ATD 2013 Lineup Assassination Thread - Louis Magnus Division

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Old
04-03-2013, 01:32 PM
  #26
EagleBelfour
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I like JFA's team. Always full of oldies and Euro'sv

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFA87-66-99 View Post
PITTSBURGH BANKERS


Head Coach - Jack Adams
Assistant Coach - Billy Reay

Johnny Bucyk - Milt Schmidt - Bryan Hextall Sr.
Gordon Roberts - Mickey MacKay - Vaclav Nedomansky
Tommy Smith - Vladimir Shadrin - Jack Marshall
Harry Westwick - Marty Walsh - Ernie Russell

J.C. Tremblay - Herb Gardiner
Joe Simpson - Adam Foote
Viktor Kuzkin - Bucko McDonald

Terry Sawchuk
Bouse Hutton

Spares:
D - Jack Laviolette
F- Pud Glass
LW- Vsevolod Bobrov
1st line: Well you've got one my favourite all-time player in Milt Schmidt. Good start. The guy is so well rounded. Johnny Bucyk is a superb LW, rough and tumble with great playmaking attribute. You've got the typical low-end, goalscoring 1st liner in Bryan Hextall. I wish there was a bit more goalscoring, a bit less playmaking on that line, but overall a very good one.

2nd line: Again, big fan of your centre.Mickey Mackay is a splendid all-around player. You flank him with Doc Roberts, a great goalscorer not afraid of the rough stuff and Vaclav Nedomansky, with his speed and great wrister. A typical ATD 2nd line, but I ought to think better than average.

3rd line: Kind of an odd line. Shadrin was known as a good defensive forward, while Tommy Smith is a great, one way, offensive forward with a short peak. Jack Marshall is kinda a jack-of-all-trade, rough and speedful. I always saw Jack Marshall more of a fourth liner honestly. I would probably move Marshall with Ernie Russell, to make that third line more offensively potent.

4th line: Ah Marty Walsh, another one of my favourite. I tried for three days to trade up for that guy, what a steal where you got him! Ought to be one of the very best 4th liner in the draft. Harry Westwick is a typical 4th liner pest with loads of intangible. Ernie Russell is a good offensive forward. If you want a typical defense first third line and offensive fourth line, I would try:

Westwick - Shadrin - Marshall
Smith - Walsh - Russell

But that makes your fourth line very strong! But your third line a bit weak.

All in all, a fantastic group of forward. Kudos.

1st pairing: JC Tremblay is more of an elite #2 D than a #1 D, but he works well with Herb Gardiner. A low-end 1st pairing, but can definitely stay competitive

2nd pairing: Bullet Jo and his offensive flair with Adam Foote the rock. Works very well, both should be 2nd pairing defenceman. I would guess an average 2nd pairing, but I like the combination

3rd pairing: Just bought a Matriochka, and Kuzkin was the the smallest one! On that note, excellent 3rd pairing, both play their role well.

Goaltenders: Terry Sawchuk is an elite goalkeeper. During his prime he played pretty much all the games, but do to his short prime, I would of love to see a better backup. Hutton is not that guy, but overall, obviously, a solid group of goalkeeper that can win you some games.

Coach: Good group of coach that should work well with your group I think.

Special Teams: I'll wait until you post them to comment I guess. From the look of your team, you should have no trouble icing a great PP & PK with the forwards you own. For the defenceman, the PK should be alright, but you seem to be missing a defenceman for the PP. Any forwards can play the point?


Why this team will win:
- A great and balanced group of forwards
- Terry Sawchuk
- The versatility of the forward group
- Great Special team unit for the forwards

Why this team will lose:
- Lack of a true #1 & shutdown D pairing
- Lack of depth on the special team for the D


Overall, a fantastic entry. I really love it. You should do very well in this draft JFA. Good luck!

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04-03-2013, 02:59 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I got curious, so it's my own version of MB's team, if the trade goes through



1st line: Ted Lindsay is the second best LW of All-Time. All the qualities of an elite glue-guy, but much, much more terrifying in the offensive zone. On the right side, speedy Maltsev, a great playmaker, another dangerous offensive forward. Instead of inserting Savard, I decided to give those two winger the best centre of this team (well, after Maltsev) in Marty Barry. Although a better goalscorer, Barry was still a decent playmaker in his own right. Samething with Ted Lindsay. With a solid playmaker like Maltsev, I see it as a very balanced offensive line, very dangerous offensively.

2nd line: I always saw Denis Savard as a player that could create more things on his own, and he will need too, with two lower-end 2nd liner. Damphousse brings some defence to this line. Darragh, unfortunately, seems to be the best goalscorer of the line, which doesn't mean much. It's a line that should receive less ice-time in the regular season, but a bit more in the playoffs, Darragh being a solid performer in crunch time.

3rd line: An elite defensive-minded 3rd line that will receive 2nd line ice-time. They will pop in the occasional goal, but their task will be to check the opposing team best line. They should succeed more often than not.

4th line: A bunch of special team specialist thrown on the 4th line. It's a bit of an ackward line IMO, but they shouldn't have much ES time anyway.

1st pairing: Zdeno Chara is a low-end #1 defenceman, but a terrifying one. More of a defensive defenceman, he's paired with Marcel Pronovost, an offensive kamikaze, who's still good defensively. This pairing works very well together, but is below average in the grand scheme of thing

2nd pairing: Eddie Gerard is a fringe #1 defenceman in this draft, but an absolute elite defenceman to have on your 2nd pairing. With him, you Teppo Numminen, an all-around defenceman. A crisp passer. It's an excellent 2nd pairing.

3rd pairing: Barclay Plager is a defensive defenceman who can hurt you with a great body-check. Andrei Markov is the opposite of Plager, but one of the very best 3rd pairing D at moving the puck with his high IQ. I really like this pairing too.

Goaltending: Tony Esposito is a great regular season goaltender, above average no question, that can struggle at time in the playoffs. He's helped with one of the three best backup in the draft, Rogatien Vachon, who wouldn't look out of place as a starter, and may be valuable to his team success.

Coach: Punch Imlach should enjoy coaching Ted Lindsay and shouldn't have any big feud with his players. I like Barry Trotz there, as a calm influence with great knowledge of the game.

PP: The first unit is good, but nothing spectacular. I would of wish to see someone else than Marcel Pronovost. Andrei Markov is first PP worthy, but perhaps below average (I've seen a full decade of Habs PP running JUST because of that guy, so it definitely has his place on the first unit). The forwards are very good. The 2nd PP, just like your second line, lacks punch, but the defenceman are definitely good enough. I would just want Chara to blast some puck and see what happens.

PK: Not much to say. Both the 1st and 2nd PK unit are extraordinary, probably elite. It's a very tough bunch to score against on the PK.


Why are they gonna win:
- Ted Lindsay and a very good offensive first line
- Great defensive depth, from #2 to #7
- A third line that will be able to keep small leads

Why are they gonna lose:
- Huge lack of offensive depth after the first line
- At time, a shaky goaltender in the playoffs

Again, a smart idea moving Savard to the 2nd line and having Barry to the top line, it is an extremely talented and well built top line.

I agree that the wingers on the 2nd line are below average, but upgrading to Savard helps that line out tremendously. Savard is the kind of Center i'd want to handle that line and as you mentioned could create a lot of offense on his own.

Surely teams will have to load up against that top line so Savard will see easier match ups.

As mentioned that 3rd line has got to be one of the best shut down lines in the league.

I think Chara himself should be considered a number 1 in the ATD. A lower average overall number 1, but defensively he ranks a lot higher.

He and Pronovost pair well together as it allows Pronovost to play his style of play.

Eddie Gerard on a 2nd pairing goes without saying and Numminen is a good fit for him.

Overall with the addition of Savard and Lindsay it provides that extra punch of offense his top 6 was missing.

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Old
04-03-2013, 03:27 PM
  #28
EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Again, a smart idea moving Savard to the 2nd line and having Barry to the top line, it is an extremely talented and well built top line.

I agree that the wingers on the 2nd line are below average, but upgrading to Savard helps that line out tremendously. Savard is the kind of Center i'd want to handle that line and as you mentioned could create a lot of offense on his own.

Surely teams will have to load up against that top line so Savard will see easier match ups.

As mentioned that 3rd line has got to be one of the best shut down lines in the league.

I think Chara himself should be considered a number 1 in the ATD. A lower average overall number 1, but defensively he ranks a lot higher.

He and Pronovost pair well together as it allows Pronovost to play his style of play.

Eddie Gerard on a 2nd pairing goes without saying and Numminen is a good fit for him.

Overall with the addition of Savard and Lindsay it provides that extra punch of offense his top 6 was missing.
- Let's call an apple an apple: the wingers on Denis Savard's line are very weak. One bring some two-way abilities, some bring great playoff prowess, but overall it has to be one of the worst tandem of winger on a second line.

- Zdeno Chara is probably average defensively compare to the other 31 #1 defenceman in the league, but definitely one of the worst offensively I would. He brings intangible with his size, shot & elite PK'ing, so that put him comfortably as an ATD #1D IMO. A lower-end though.

- You may be right, but MB's identity as a team was a defensive one, winning 2-1 games. Now, Lindsay and Savard bring more offensive punch to the line, but losing a key defensive contributor, a great defensive player in Red Kelly hurt them. Keats is also a better defensive forward. I liked the fact that MB had high-end and great defensive depth with one great offensive line, with Kelly on the backend to help them out. Yes, a one line team is easier to check (even with this trade, it's still a one line team), but I think they had enough offensive punch to score a few a game, and if Esposito stood strong, definitely enough defensive ability to nullify the scoring chances on the other outside. Now, they might score a bit more, their first line is definitely tougher in all the sense of the word to stop, but at what price? A 5 man-unit of Mahovlich-Barry-Maltsev-Kelly-Chara was tougher to stop than a 5-man unit of Lindsay-Barry-Maltsev-Chara-Pronovost. I think it will depend of the matchup, but I still believe this trade makes MB a worst team overall.

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Old
04-03-2013, 08:26 PM
  #29
monster_bertuzzi
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Thanks for the review EB:

Lindsay-Savard-Darragh
Damphousse-Barry-Matlsev

The new top 6. Lindsay and Savard are going to spark offensive chances against anyone, any shutdown line or d pair. I also think that's a hell of a second 3 man unit to put over the boards against lesser competition.

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04-04-2013, 09:40 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Thanks for the review EB:

Lindsay-Savard-Darragh
Damphousse-Barry-Matlsev

The new top 6. Lindsay and Savard are going to spark offensive chances against anyone, any shutdown line or d pair. I also think that's a hell of a second 3 man unit to put over the boards against lesser competition.

Ted lindsay is like steve larmer but on steroids. He and savard will create so much offense together.

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04-04-2013, 09:50 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Ted lindsay is like steve larmer but on steroids. He and savard will create so much offense together.
Ted Lindsay is Steve Larmer from a broken home, after years of steroid abuse, tripping on PCP and on the run from the cops.

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04-04-2013, 10:06 AM
  #32
markrander87
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Ted Lindsay is Steve Larmer from a broken home, after years of steroid abuse, tripping on PCP and on the run from the cops.


I was going to add more description but couldn't think of any. Well done.

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Old
04-05-2013, 03:36 PM
  #33
Darth Yoda
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Head Coach: Jacques Demers
Captain: Bob Gainey
Ass. captains:
Viacheslav Fetisov
Guy Carbonneau

Our top three lines is gonna play equally much, the fourth is for just for relief 5-on-5. A little less playing time means higher tempo to do what they do best.

Brendan Shanahan-Max Bentley-Dany Heatley
It's important here that we have two physically strong players to play with Max who will have the puck most of the time. Shanny of course can shuffle a little and bounce a rebound in or three, Heatley will be looking for areas to shoot from.
Conserning Heatley: I dont think he has problems with knowing his place when playing behind, or beside other Star Players. Look no further than his time on Team Canada. He knows what he's relatively worth for a teams offence and asks only that. I've met him two times and he's amongst the best there is amongst players.

Daniel Sedin-Vladimir Petrov-Claude Lemieux
Sedin is going to be able to utilize more of his pretty solid playmaking here, i'm sure he and Petrov can keep the puck between them just as much as he does with Henrik, only here we have two legitimate shooters, not counting Claude that is. Petrov will kind of play the role of Phil Esposito on this line in terms of offense and he will be provided the puck just as Phil got it. Claude will be making some room and dig out the puck out of the corners, also going to the net. This is Claude Lemieux we're talking about and with premier playmakers like these he can even score some from outside as well from time to time.

Bob Gainey-Guy Carbonneau-Bobby Schmautz
Here we see a third line that is going to play a lot of minutes. We obviously got two of the greatest defensive players of all time here, and although this line is not super-talented offensively, we count on them to not always come away with 0-0 against our oppositions best players, but also every once in a while go 1-1 through their speed and not the least Bobby Schmautz boomer of a shot as soon as he gets the puck around the offensive line. The two Selke champions will play lower while Schmaultz does his dirty job while waiting for a pass to let his crazy shot off. Maybe carve someone up every once in a while as well.

Simon Gagne-Andy Hebenton-Bengt-Åke Gustafsson
This line will not play much, but at the same time all out when at it becouse they will get to rest for five minutes afterwards. They do however have a nice combination of goal scoring and playmaking, certainly capable of seeing Gustafsson feed one of his two linemates the puck from the right side.

Reserves: Marcel Bonin and Tiger Williams
Tiger will join the fourth line when we feel it's needed either going up against a team of ugly players, or if we have payback to bring to someone from an earlier game.
Bonin on his side is capable to move into the lineup on the fourth line and if injuries occurs on the top lines he will take Hebentons place as the latter moves up the roster.

Viacheslav Fetisov-Paul Reinhart
This is not a top first pairing, but Fetisov will be asked to play his excellent balanced game to take some load of Reinhart, who is a positionally good player and obviously quite good offensively. Reinhart played in the 1981 CC and was asked to play in 84 but was injured.

Gary Suter-Ken Morrow
Suter will obviously be told to go all out on his ordinary game, do his offense and play his not totally bad, relentlessly gritty defensive game, while Morrow who covered for Potvin on the Islanders obviously will make up for what Suter lacks defensively.

Ulf Samuelsson-James Patrick
Here we have two really not that bad defensive players and a pair that at least can start the play.

Reserves: Jeff Brown and Alexei Gusarov. Depending on who gets injured these will take someones roster spot, both probably on the bottom pairing whoever gets injured while other players move up to replace the injured. We're talking Patrick replacing Reinhart or Morrow while Jeff Brown goes in with Samuelsson.

Glenn Hall
Vladimir Dzurilla

We're not gonna lie, Glenn Hall will play very much just as he's used to on the Black Hawks, but down the stretch Dzurilla will play some games to keep Hall fresh for the playoffs since he got a lot better there once he did not play all the regular season games. Even got a Conn Smythe out of it obviously.

Special Teams:

PP1:

Vladimir Petrov-Brendan Shanahan-Max Bentley
James Patrick-Gary Suter


Petrov is a righty and will not only be able to playmake from this position but also ring a slapper home. Shanny plays much on the goalie and looks for rebounds. Patrick is also a righty and that's why he's here.

PP2:

Daniel Sedin-Claude Lemieux-Dany Heatley
Paul Reinhart-Viacheslav Fetisov

Lemieux is on the goalie if anyone wonders why he's there. We got good shooting from the D:s as well as playmaking, and our two forwards not on the goalie are quite capable

BP1:

Bob Gainey-Guy Carbonneau
Ulf Samuelsson-Viacheslav Fetisov


BP2:


Simon Gagne-Bengt-Åke Gustafsson
James Patrick-Ken Morrow


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 04-06-2013 at 10:01 PM.
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Old
04-05-2013, 06:20 PM
  #34
ck26
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Still no assassinations of the other two teams of this division, so I'll have at one of those too.

VIKING MANIACS
Head Coach: Jacques Demers
Brendan Shanahan-Max Bentley-Dany Heatley
Daniel Sedin-Vladimir Petrov-Claude Lemieux
Bob Gainey [C]-Guy Carbonneau [A]-Bobby Schmautz
Simon Gagne-Andy Hebenton-Bengt-Åke Gustafsson

Viacheslav Fetisov [A]-Paul Reinhart
Gary Suter-Ken Morrow
Ulf Samuelsson-James Patrick

Glenn Hall
Vladimir Dzurilla

The first line is a weird mix of size outside and speed inside, and it suffers the same problem that my Barber-Lalonde-Lanny line will suffer; Max Bentley is arguably your best offensive player, but he'll be required to be his own playmaker, and he's not nearly the player Newsy Lalonde is. Shanahan can do some of the dirty work, but I've always considered him a front-of-the-net finisher type, and Heatley is almost purely a sniper. He was a decent playmaker in his era, but was never renown for it. Petrov is a strong 2C, and that line looks solid at a good, slow, grinding style of offense, but I don't know if Lemieux really belongs there. I would love that line with Heatley as your 2R and someone with more two-way skills as your 1R (not that there's really anything you can do about that now. Third line has arguably the two best defensive forwards to ever play the game, so it'll be good ... the only shortcoming is that they could maybe use some size.

The defense has lots of offensive ability, which is strange because your top 6 forwards are so middle-of-the-road. What made Fetisov so good was his skating and his ability on the puck; you can get away with a Paul Reinhart-quality defenseman in your first pairing with Fetisov, but it can't be Paul Reinhart ... a dumpy fire hydrant type (Craig Ludwig, Leo Boivin) would at least be able to do his thing while Fetisov played with the puck. By putting Reinhart and Fetisov together, you're taking the puck / taking "creative time" away from Fetisov to give it to Reinhart, and that strikes me as a very poor use of Fetisov. I like both guys in the second pairing, but the rest of your defense is just OK. Glenn Hall is a monster and he will probably need to be behind that defense, and Dzurilla is a good backup.

Confused about your special teams philosophy ... to put Fetisov on your 2PP suggests you're trying to build to balanced units, but you've got your 3 best penalty killers (Gainey, Carbonneau, Fetisov) paired on one unit. Might be well served to split them up somehow so that your 2nd PK unit wasn't so "meh."

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04-05-2013, 07:02 PM
  #35
Darth Yoda
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Might be well served to split them up somehow so that your 2nd PK unit wasn't so "meh."
That's what i was waiting for during your post. What does the timetables for this look like now, what can i do? I dont know how this works. I dont agree with some of the things you said, but others i probably do.

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04-05-2013, 07:21 PM
  #36
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The voting hasn't started yet, so if you want to make changes here and in the roster thread, I say go for it.

I don't even know if I'll agree with this in an hour, but Ulf Samuelsson might belong on your first pairing instead of Reinhart. Fetisov might be good enough to compensate for the overmatched Samuelsson, and he's certainly a better stay-at-home type, and might pair better stylistically than Reinhart.

The obvious choice is Morrow (Fetisov-Morrow would be a solid 1st pairing) but I think you're REALLY leaving yourself exposed if you have to do Suter - Samuelson and Reinhart - Patrick, and Suter - Reinhart might be the worst idea in ATD defensive pairing history.

With Fetisov - Samuelsson, you at least get both "types" of defensemen, and combining them with Gainey - Carbonneau might be good enough to contain most first lines.

Fetisov - Samuelsson
Suter - Morrow
Reinhart - Patrick

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04-05-2013, 07:41 PM
  #37
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The voting hasn't started yet, so if you want to make changes here and in the roster thread, I say go for it.

I don't even know if I'll agree with this in an hour, but Ulf Samuelsson might belong on your first pairing instead of Reinhart. Fetisov might be good enough to compensate for the overmatched Samuelsson, and he's certainly a better stay-at-home type, and might pair better stylistically than Reinhart.

The obvious choice is Morrow (Fetisov-Morrow would be a solid 1st pairing) but I think you're REALLY leaving yourself exposed if you have to do Suter - Samuelson and Reinhart - Patrick, and Suter - Reinhart might be the worst idea in ATD defensive pairing history.

With Fetisov - Samuelsson, you at least get both "types" of defensemen, and combining them with Gainey - Carbonneau might be good enough to contain most first lines.

Fetisov - Samuelsson
Suter - Morrow
Reinhart - Patrick
One of the reasons i did'nt do that was becouse i'm unsure about lefties that are not very skilled being put on the right side. I dont know how it works in reality, but what i've found when looking it up is it helps if the player is as skilled as possible.
The Fetisov-Reinhart pairing would rely very much on Fetisovs excellent all-around game, and what he might loose offensively by playing more balanced Reinhart would make up for. Reinhart wont have any problems being a part of a dynamic duo, positionally he was very sound.

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04-05-2013, 08:28 PM
  #38
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The first line is a weird mix of size outside and speed inside, and it suffers the same problem that my Barber-Lalonde-Lanny line will suffer; Max Bentley is arguably your best offensive player, but he'll be required to be his own playmaker, and he's not nearly the player Newsy Lalonde is. Shanahan can do some of the dirty work, but I've always considered him a front-of-the-net finisher type, and Heatley is almost purely a sniper. He was a decent playmaker in his era, but was never renown for it.
A big reason why Bentley does not have a great playmaker on his line is becouse he to a high degree IS the lines playmaker, although driver of the play might be a more accurate saying, i'm sure his wingers will catch up with him having the puck almost all the time. Shannys role IS to go to the net or give Bentley room to zig-zag with the puck, sometimes going past one-on-one, sometimes shoot or pass or drop it to Heatley so that he can snipe. I also believe that Heatley can return pucks from Bentley when they attack for Max to shoot with Shanny on the goalie.

Quote:
Petrov is a strong 2C, and that line looks solid at a good, slow, grinding style of offense, but I don't know if Lemieux really belongs there. I would love that line with Heatley as your 2R and someone with more two-way skills as your 1R (not that there's really anything you can do about that now.
Yeah, but as it stands now Sedin and Petrov will control the puck between them with mainly the russian taking the shots, partly becouse he'll have the better angle more often, partly becouse he simply is a much better scorer than Sedin. At the same time Claude can either go to the net, or into the corner to chase a puck he can deliver to either of the others, or he can sometimes even try finding a space where he can get the odd pucks and shoot. He will certainly not be shooting as much as he's sometimes used to though, this is Claude Lemieux and we'll use him as the beast he is concerning intangibles.

Quote:
Third line has arguably the two best defensive forwards to ever play the game, so it'll be good ... the only shortcoming is that they could maybe use some size.
Perhaps they're not that big, but Bob Gainey was'nt exactly small when he played, and what Bobby Schmautz may have lacked there in the seventies, which was'nt all that much concerning the era, i think he makes up for by being a crazy mofo.

Quote:
The defense has lots of offensive ability, which is strange because your top 6 forwards are so middle-of-the-road. What made Fetisov so good was his skating and his ability on the puck; you can get away with a Paul Reinhart-quality defenseman in your first pairing with Fetisov, but it can't be Paul Reinhart ... a dumpy fire hydrant type (Craig Ludwig, Leo Boivin) would at least be able to do his thing while Fetisov played with the puck. By putting Reinhart and Fetisov together, you're taking the puck / taking "creative time" away from Fetisov to give it to Reinhart, and that strikes me as a very poor use of Fetisov.
I dont quite understand if you're actually saying that Fetisov and Reinhart are of the same breed of players? Fetisov is excellent both offensively and defensively. He's also though. I'm just relying on Reinharts ability to follow the flow of the game here concerning when who goes and who stays. I believe it's a good thing to have two offensively capable players in one pairing since it gives the option to start offensive plays from both sides, people dont know what to expect. But i do know this wont be a top first pairing defensively, i just think that it wont have to be especially bad either especially becouse of Fetisov.

Quote:
I like both guys in the second pairing, but the rest of your defense is just OK.
OK thanks. I do have some faith though that Samuelsson and Patricktogether will be pretty good defensively, but obviously not very talented offensively even though i do think they at least are capable of playing the puck out of the zone without iceing it.

Quote:
Glenn Hall is a monster and he will probably need to be behind that defense, and Dzurilla is a good backup.
Yeah, i love Glenn Halls ability to play very many games and that he has experience from having offensive minded teams in front of him, not the least since our first pairing is not as a duo the greatest defensively.

Quote:
Confused about your special teams philosophy ... to put Fetisov on your 2PP suggests you're trying to build to balanced units, but you've got your 3 best penalty killers (Gainey, Carbonneau, Fetisov) paired on one unit. Might be well served to split them up somehow so that your 2nd PK unit wasn't so "meh."
Yes i will perhaps balance them more, but when it comes to the PP i have Patrick on the first becouse he is a rightie. I guess i never filled up the second PK the way i thought i would but at the same time i'm not too worried about it especially since guys like Gagne and Gustafsson pretty much be PK:ers and that's what they'll focus on. A few ordinary shifts as well is all.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 04-05-2013 at 09:14 PM.
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04-09-2013, 04:44 AM
  #39
TheDevilMadeMe
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Vikings review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Head Coach: Jacques Demers
Captain: Bob Gainey
Ass. captains:
Viacheslav Fetisov
Guy Carbonneau

Our top three lines is gonna play equally much, the fourth is for just for relief 5-on-5. A little less playing time means higher tempo to do what they do best.

Brendan Shanahan-Max Bentley-Dany Heatley
It's important here that we have two physically strong players to play with Max who will have the puck most of the time. Shanny of course can shuffle a little and bounce a rebound in or three, Heatley will be looking for areas to shoot from.
Conserning Heatley: I dont think he has problems with knowing his place when playing behind, or beside other Star Players. Look no further than his time on Team Canada. He knows what he's relatively worth for a teams offence and asks only that. I've met him two times and he's amongst the best there is amongst players.

Daniel Sedin-Vladimir Petrov-Claude Lemieux
Sedin is going to be able to utilize more of his pretty solid playmaking here, i'm sure he and Petrov can keep the puck between them just as much as he does with Henrik, only here we have two legitimate shooters, not counting Claude that is. Petrov will kind of play the role of Phil Esposito on this line in terms of offense and he will be provided the puck just as Phil got it. Claude will be making some room and dig out the puck out of the corners, also going to the net. This is Claude Lemieux we're talking about and with premier playmakers like these he can even score some from outside as well from time to time.

Bob Gainey-Guy Carbonneau-Bobby Schmautz
Here we see a third line that is going to play a lot of minutes. We obviously got two of the greatest defensive players of all time here, and although this line is not super-talented offensively, we count on them to not always come away with 0-0 against our oppositions best players, but also every once in a while go 1-1 through their speed and not the least Bobby Schmautz boomer of a shot as soon as he gets the puck around the offensive line. The two Selke champions will play lower while Schmaultz does his dirty job while waiting for a pass to let his crazy shot off. Maybe carve someone up every once in a while as well.

Simon Gagne-Andy Hebenton-Bengt-Åke Gustafsson
This line will not play much, but at the same time all out when at it becouse they will get to rest for five minutes afterwards. They do however have a nice combination of goal scoring and playmaking, certainly capable of seeing Gustafsson feed one of his two linemates the puck from the right side.

Reserves: Marcel Bonin and Tiger Williams
Tiger will join the fourth line when we feel it's needed either going up against a team of ugly players, or if we have payback to bring to someone from an earlier game.
Bonin on his side is capable to move into the lineup on the fourth line and if injuries occurs on the top lines he will take Hebentons place as the latter moves up the roster.

Viacheslav Fetisov-Paul Reinhart
This is not a top first pairing, but Fetisov will be asked to play his excellent balanced game to take some load of Reinhart, who is a positionally good player and obviously quite good offensively. Reinhart played in the 1981 CC and was asked to play in 84 but was injured.

Gary Suter-Ken Morrow
Suter will obviously be told to go all out on his ordinary game, do his offense and play his not totally bad, relentlessly gritty defensive game, while Morrow who covered for Potvin on the Islanders obviously will make up for what Suter lacks defensively.

Ulf Samuelsson-James Patrick
Here we have two really not that bad defensive players and a pair that at least can start the play.

Reserves: Jeff Brown and Alexei Gusarov. Depending on who gets injured these will take someones roster spot, both probably on the bottom pairing whoever gets injured while other players move up to replace the injured. We're talking Patrick replacing Reinhart or Morrow while Jeff Brown goes in with Samuelsson.

Glenn Hall
Vladimir Dzurilla

We're not gonna lie, Glenn Hall will play very much just as he's used to on the Black Hawks, but down the stretch Dzurilla will play some games to keep Hall fresh for the playoffs since he got a lot better there once he did not play all the regular season games. Even got a Conn Smythe out of it obviously.

Special Teams:

PP1:

Vladimir Petrov-Brendan Shanahan-Max Bentley
James Patrick-Gary Suter


Petrov is a righty and will not only be able to playmake from this position but also ring a slapper home. Shanny plays much on the goalie and looks for rebounds. Patrick is also a righty and that's why he's here.

PP2:

Daniel Sedin-Claude Lemieux-Dany Heatley
Paul Reinhart-Viacheslav Fetisov

Lemieux is on the goalie if anyone wonders why he's there. We got good shooting from the D:s as well as playmaking, and our two forwards not on the goalie are quite capable

BP1:

Bob Gainey-Guy Carbonneau
Ulf Samuelsson-Viacheslav Fetisov


BP2:


Simon Gagne-Bengt-Åke Gustafsson
James Patrick-Ken Morrow
Coaching and leadership

Demers is a legit ATD coach, albeit a lower tier one. From what I gathered and vaguely remember, he liked rock-em sock-em hockey. He'll like Shanahan, Lemieux, Suter, and Samuelsson if nothing else.

Leadership is pretty good. In addition to the guys you gave letters to, Shanahan and Lemieux provide secondary leadership.

Forwards

Max Bentley seems to be one of the best stick handlers of all time. He doesn't provide anything but offense, it seems, but he's a pretty good offensive first line center who raises his game in the playoffs. His wings compliment him well - Heatley can go to the net and bury pucks, Shanahan can fight the battles and score, as well. Neither winger is outstanding for a first line, but neither is weak, either. Overall, a solid but unspectacular first line.

I like Petrov a lot as a second line center. Sedin is pretty average as a second line winger - his VsX numbers make him look pretty close to Cournoyer in the regular season, and I think that's fair, with Cournoyer elevating his game a lot in the playoffs, and Sedin, well, we know. I like that Sedin can both score and pass with about equal proficiency - it'll be a good fit next to Petrov. Claude Lemieux has everything you want from a scoring line glue guy... except the scoring. His lack of offense will definitely bring the line down in the regular season. Overall, a solid second line that could be more if you had a better RW.

What can I say about your third line that hasn't been said? The best checking LW of all time paired with the best pure checking C of all time (I say "pure checking" so I don't have to compare Carbs with Nighbor or Clarke). And paired with Bobby Schmautz who... unless I'm missing something is an average 4th liner at this level at best. If you had a better RW, this would be the best checking line in the draft, but instead that title goes to Bubba's team.

3 good players on the 4th line, but I don't like the fit. First of all, Gagne is a good defensive player, but I think he needs a playmaking center to be able to score, and he doesn't have that. Hebenton is a gritty player who can chip in points, but isn't he a RW? Gustafsson seems like a very versatile defensive player.

Gritty spare wingers, though if a center or offensive player gets hurt, they won't help much.

With your roster, I would consider this:

Shanahan - Bentley - Heatley
Sedin - Petrov - Hebenton
Gainey - Carbonneau - Lemieux
Bonin/Gagne - Gustafsson - Schmautz

First line unchanged; I think Hebenton brings a decent enough level of grit for the 2nd line while definitely bringing more regular season offense than Lemieux. I could go either way with whether Lemieux or Gustafsson is better for the third line, but then realized that you literally don't have any centers to spare, so you pretty much need Gustafsson to play C, where he did occasionally.

Defense

Fetisov is a great #1 (IMO, he's even better than Larry Robinson), but you waited way too long to draft a #2. Not only do I not see a legitimate #2 in the lineup, but I don't think Suter would be a particularly strong #3. I'll second whoever said that you might as well put Ulf Samuelsson next to Fetisov at even strength. I think there's a legit case he was a better defenseman than Reinhart, and even if they are equals or Reinhart slightly better, I like Samuelsson's big strong defensive-minded skillset better next to Fetisov. Anyway, as you have them now, I think you're wasting a lot of Fetisov's puck moving skills, because if Reinhart isn't moving the puck, he isn't very useful (I see Reinhart as a decent #4 if healthy, but with his health issues, I'd rather him as a #5).

Gary Suter is an okay second pairing anchor, below average defensively, but a puck rusher with a mean streak. Ken Morrow is a safe stay-at-home guy, but I would really prefer to see him on a bottom pairing with his lack of Norris and All Star recognition.

Samuelsson is a very good #5 (better than Morrow IMO), and Patrick is an okay offensive minded #6.

Jeff Brown is another offensive-minded guy and PP specialist for a team that doesn't really need one. Gusarov is a good defensive guy.

If you moved Samuelsson to the top pairing, you would have this:

Fetisov - Samuelsson
Suter - Morrow
Reinhart - Gusarov

yeah yeah, James Patrick is better than Gusarov, but I think Suter and Reinhart really need stay at home guys next to them. Fetisov is an all-rounder, who doesn't need a stay at home guy next to him, but I think he's better with one, and he's your best player, so I would build to his strengths.

Goaltending

Hall is an excellent starter; the more I read about him and how run-and-gun those Blackhawks really were, the more impressed I am with Hall. I think in the regular season only, he should be considered as good as Plante and better than Sawchuk. Plante pulls away in the playoffs though.

With Hall in net, the backup is basically irrelevant, but Dzurilla will be fine for you in the 4-5 regular seasons games he plays.

Special Teams

First PK is okay, but might be even better if you played Bentley on the point and Heatley up front. Plus, that would stop Heatley from whining about lack of PP time.

Reinhart -Fetisov are excellent pointmen for a 2nd PP (indeed, I think Fetisov is your best pointman except for maybe Bentley), but there is a complete lack of playmaking up front, which really hurts you.

Okay, forget what I said about Bentley on the point of the first unit - you absolutely need playmaking up front on the second unit for it to be effective. IMO, this would be a much better PP:

Shanahan - Bentley - Heatley
Reinhart - Fetisov

Sedin - Petrov - Hebenton
Patrick - Suter

First PK is excellent with elite forwards and good defensemen

Second PK seems like something of a weakness, and I don't know how you can fix it with your current lineup, because I wouldn't want any of Suter, Patrick, or Reinhart on the PK of an ATD team. Gusarov would help if he's dressed, but then I don't know who plays the 4th point on the PP.

Overall

A pretty good rookie team with some clear strengths and weaknesses

I like:
  • Fetisov and Hall are excellent building blocks to a team, and both were good value where you drafted them.
  • The first two lines are well-built with what looks to be great chemistry (I have something of an issue with Lemieux's scoring for a 2nd line, not his skillset)
  • Gainey - Carbonneau = best 2 third liners in the draft, and you have both of them.

Potential issues:
  • You waited way too long to draft a second defenseman and have a very weak blueline behind Fetisov. There is only so much Gainey and Carbs can do if they don't have the blueline support. On the other hand, Glenn Hall is used to being under fire. This affects you at even strength, and on both special teams.
  • I really think Schmautz drags down what would and otherwise elite 3rd line, and Claude Lemieux is a weak offensive player in the regular season to be on a scoring line.
  • Lack of playmaking on the 2nd PP unit really hurts its potential, but that's easily fixed by moving Petrov there

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04-09-2013, 08:40 AM
  #40
BubbaBoot
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Gainey - Carbonneau - Lemieux would be a sick line......I love my own 3rd line and this one would be equal, possibly better, given the qualities that Lemieux brings. I'd take Lemieux over Schmautzie any day of the week, especially in the playoffs.....and I like Schmautz.

"qualities that Lemieux brings".....is this an oxymoron?

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04-09-2013, 02:44 PM
  #41
Darth Yoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post

PP:

Shanahan - Bentley - Heatley
Reinhart - Fetisov

Sedin - Petrov - Hebenton
Patrick - Suter
[/LIST]
OK thanks. but why do you put Bentley there? I thought the guy that most eften goes to the net is placed there? I just got to add though that Schmautz are undervalued much becouse he had a penchant for getting minor injuries. This was an almost point per game player during many years in the seventies, and mainly not PP ones.


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04-09-2013, 02:47 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
OK thanks. but why do you put Bentley there? I thought the guy that most eften goes to the net is placed there?
Oh, I just list them as they would be on the faceoff, so I put the center in the middle. It looks weird to me otherwise. Heatley or Shanahan would be the guy going to the net.

Other GMs do list the PP as they see it running after the faceoff, with the net guy in the middle, I think Sturminator started that in ATD2011.

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04-12-2013, 06:43 PM
  #43
Darth Yoda
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Me myself has gotten half way through, but for those who has'nt voted on my division yet, or cares for some other reason i have made a slight overhaul on our PP, although the defenders and net presences are the same. This is becouse the added dynamics of the first unit overweighs the loss on the second in my opinion, not the least becouse the two will play at about a 2 to 1 ratio.

Vladimir Petrov(RHS) - Brendan Shanahan(RHS) - Max Bentley
-------------James Patrick(RHS) - Vyacheslav Fetisov

We certainly feel the defenders, Petrov and Bentley sure can keep the pressure here. Petrov has the opportunity to either play off a pass from Patrick or slap it from the same or Bentley. Bentley can take a pass from almost everywhere here really, shoot or zig-zag his way into position in the slot here while Shanahan covers the goalie. We also have good setups for Fetisov in store.

Daniel Sedin - Claude Lemieux(RHS) - Dany Heatley
--------------Paul Reinhart - Gary Suter

I believe the two defensemen together with Sedin can have the puck on a string here. Prime Heatley will always be looking for the one-timer with the help of Lemieux who gets to show his full tenacity in the slot and in front of the goalie which we feel he can do allright. Create some disturbance.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 04-12-2013 at 09:28 PM.
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