HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Front Office Crew Opinion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-09-2013, 02:58 PM
  #51
anleva
Registered User
 
anleva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18007 View Post
Is there any indication that Eric would be a bad GM? Or are people just sick of the general nepotism?
I guess the flip side of that is what has anyone seen, based on Eric's resume since he stopped playing hockey and moved into front office positions, to suggest that he has the skills, experience and track record to be a successful GM? After all he is learning under and from people who have yet been able to figure out how to field a successful team in the salary cap era.

I guess I'd prefer to have an experienced NHL GM, or an assistant NHL GM that has worked for successful NHL GM's and comes highly recommended by hockey people as the next Avalanche GM. But unfortunately that is not the Avalanche way. So nepotism it is.

anleva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 03:59 PM
  #52
CalderKing21
Darth Calder
 
CalderKing21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Birmingham, AL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,936
vCash: 281
no more Lacroix's! sick of the nepotism **** Pierre already does and you know he'd pass it on to his son. "The avs way" is complete BS and needs to go. hire the best candidate, we don't need someone who "understands" Avs culture, we need someone driven to win and willing to develop, motivate and instill a winning culture into this team.

we get out coached every damn game and it's ridiculous. if he wasn't a Avs guy he would have been fired by now.

CalderKing21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 04:09 PM
  #53
iceberg
Registered User
 
iceberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Country: Brazil
Posts: 682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I've always stuck to the general rule that you fire the coach before you fire the GM... the issue with that happens when you never fire the coach. If Sacco isn't gone this summer then management is sleeping on the job and deserves to be fired as well. So IMO if Sherman is fired I think there will be cause, if he stays I won't mind.
He already had two coaches. He hired Sacco on a 3 year deal and after two failed seasons, he gave Sacco another 2 year deal.

So, if a GM can have two failed coaches before being fired, after how many failed GMs can we fire PL?

iceberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 06:29 PM
  #54
Sheet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,021
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by anleva View Post
I guess the flip side of that is what has anyone seen, based on Eric's resume since he stopped playing hockey and moved into front office positions, to suggest that he has the skills, experience and track record to be a successful GM? After all he is learning under and from people who have yet been able to figure out how to field a successful team in the salary cap era.

I guess I'd prefer to have an experienced NHL GM, or an assistant NHL GM that has worked for successful NHL GM's and comes highly recommended by hockey people as the next Avalanche GM. But unfortunately that is not the Avalanche way. So nepotism it is.
Some thoughts on him learning from Pierre. I had an awesome dad but like everyone he wasn't perfect. I took the good and axed what I didn't like.

In the military, I had an absolute abomination for a human being as a supervisor for my first 4 years. I learned more about how to be a good supervisor from him sucking it up then I ever would have from a good supervisor. A lot of times people take the good times for granted, but pay keen attention to the bad.

To sum up the rant, I'm no more in favor of the possibility of blatant nepotism then the next, but there's a very good chance that the kid is learning exactly what not to do by his father's short comings.

I'm not even thinking he'll get the job. It's just some juicy rumor to stir the **** soup. Then again most rumors have a shred of truth.

Another thought, it's not like Pierre has a sacco career. He's Had some success for the kid to pull from too.

Sheet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 06:49 PM
  #55
anleva
Registered User
 
anleva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheet View Post
Some thoughts on him learning from Pierre. I had an awesome dad but like everyone he wasn't perfect. I took the good and axed what I didn't like.

In the military, I had an absolute abomination for a human being as a supervisor for my first 4 years. I learned more about how to be a good supervisor from him sucking it up then I ever would have from a good supervisor. A lot of times people take the good times for granted, but pay keen attention to the bad.

To sum up the rant, I'm no more in favor of the possibility of blatant nepotism then the next, but there's a very good chance that the kid is learning exactly what not to do by his father's short comings.

I'm not even thinking he'll get the job. It's just some juicy rumor to stir the **** soup. Then again most rumors have a shred of truth.

Another thought, it's not like Pierre has a sacco career. He's Had some success for the kid to pull from too.
So our hope is that Eric takes a page from George Constanza and does the opposite of his instincts or what he observed in his mentors. I guess that could work, it worked on Seinfeld. As for me I'd rather go with a guy with a successful recent track record or one who worked under a guy with a good recent successful track record. Tired of of going with inexperience or puppets in our GMs and coaches.

My concern with Pierre is his success came under an entirely different set of operational parameters than the team is faced with today and he hasn't yet figured out how to build a contending team in today's NHL. Seems to me he has been flailing away since 2005 at this point.

anleva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 06:55 PM
  #56
Bonzai12
Registered User
 
Bonzai12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver CO
Country: United States
Posts: 6,802
vCash: 767
Send a message via Yahoo to Bonzai12
I hate to say it, but I think it's Billington's time to go too. And he's easier to replace - lower on the food chain. But it's obvious he's one of the good ole boys there.

Bonzai12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 06:56 PM
  #57
Sheet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,021
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by anleva View Post
So our hope is that Eric takes a page from George Constanza and does the opposite of his instincts or what he observed in his mentors. I guess that could work, it worked on Seinfeld. As for me I'd rather go with a guy with a successful recent track record or one who worked under a guy with a good recent successful track record. Tired of of going with inexperience in our GMs and coaches.

My concern with Pierre is his success came under an entirely different set of operational parameters than the team is faced with today and he hasn't yet figured out how to build a contending team in today's NHL. Seems to me he has been flailing away since 2005 at this point.
No. What I'm saying is don't punish the son for the father's sins. I'd like some hot shot proven gm to come in and rip it up for us , but if Eric is what we get, I'll give him the same chance I will anyone. Proven coaches doesn't guarantee success either, otherwise they'd never get fired.

Not that I'm saying Chenoweth or however it's spelt should be our hc, I'm just saying in terms of lacroix, if it's what we've got to work with next year he deserves a chance. He could build us a dynasty. At any rate we can't get any worse then the worst so whatever.

Either way this sort of season can't be pegged on any one individual. A coach is as good as the tools he has to work with withholding his own sense which sacco lacks. A Gm is only as good as his staff, etc .

Sheet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 07:10 PM
  #58
anleva
Registered User
 
anleva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheet View Post
No. What I'm saying is don't punish the son for the father's sins. I'd like some hot shot proven gm to come in and rip it up for us , but if Eric is what we get, I'll give him the same chance I will anyone. Proven coaches doesn't guarantee success either, otherwise they'd never get fired.

Not that I'm saying Chenoweth or however it's spelt should be our hc, I'm just saying in terms of lacroix, if it's what we've got to work with next year he deserves a chance. He could build us a dynasty. At any rate we can't get any worse then the worst so whatever.

Either way this sort of season can't be pegged on any one individual. A coach is as good as the tools he has to work with withholding his own sense which sacco lacks. A Gm is only as good as his staff, etc .
And again what I'm saying, or asking for, is that we hire a GM or coach as most organizations would hire a critical employee. Based on their skills, experience, results, fit, track record that minimize risk of hire and bring necessary qualities and experience to the organization. Sure we could catch lighting in a bottle by hiring somebody with no GM experience, but we've done that and it's gotten us nowhere. Let's try a different approach this time.

anleva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 07:21 PM
  #59
Nihiliste
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Nihiliste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 542
There are not many things that could destroy being a lifetime fan of the Avs/Nords franchise for me but I think hiring Eric Lacroix would be one of them. Don't think I could make myself cheer for another NHL team but I think that would be the final straw that drove me to following other hockey leagues full time.

Nihiliste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 07:43 PM
  #60
shadow1
Registered User
 
shadow1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 11,302
vCash: 1210
A group of random fans on a message board can figure out the Avalanche need a new coach, but the General Manager of a $60 million franchise can't. That's enough reason to replace Greg Sherman as any.

shadow1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 07:56 PM
  #61
CalderKing21
Darth Calder
 
CalderKing21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Birmingham, AL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,936
vCash: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
A group of random fans on a message board can figure out the Avalanche need a new coach, but the General Manager of a $60 million franchise can't. That's enough reason to replace Greg Sherman as any.
my bigger problem is that the club president who won stanley cups as a GM isn't forcing him to axe the SOB. that's more telling.

CalderKing21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 08:03 PM
  #62
shadow1
Registered User
 
shadow1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 11,302
vCash: 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
my bigger problem is that the club president who won stanley cups as a GM isn't forcing him to axe the SOB. that's more telling.
Lacroix is old with health problems. How much involvement he still has remains to be seen.

shadow1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 08:11 PM
  #63
AslanRH
Part of the Plan
 
AslanRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wyoming, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,441
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Lacroix is old with health problems. How much involvement he still has remains to be seen.
He does not have to be young or healthy to still be the one who swings the Axe.

My gut feeling is the ROR negotiations, once they started to go sour, came down to PL deciding to negotiate further or not. It had his "style" written all over it.

__________________
"There's a point, far out there when the structures fail you, and the rules aren't weapons anymore, they're... shackles letting the bad guy get ahead. One day... you may face such a moment of crisis." - Jim Gordon
AslanRH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 09:22 PM
  #64
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 500
Negotiation tactics are the exact same under Sherman as they were under Giguere and Lacroix before him. That should tell you all you need to know.

Another sign this franchise has run off the rails is the fact that Pierre Lacroix was in attendance in a recent game and it was reported like some big event. I don't expect the GM to be at every game, but Christ's sake how can this guy have so much control over a franchise he has so little to actually do with!?!?

How many failures, how many public embarrassments have to take place before KSE finally takes notice?

In terms of the Front Office as a whole, the scouting department has been fantastic, snagging good players through the draft and value acquisitions via free agency. Hard to evaluate a guy like Craig Billington though. What exactly does he do?

I advocate the promotion of Joe Sakic to team president simply because he won't be a stifling presence like Lacroix obviously is. If he is little more than a figurehead, that's fine by me. Something tells me he'll be more than that, but he also won't be a meddlesome presence.

As far as the coaching staff goes...what can we say? We are guaranteed one change (Quinn), and it seems pretty apparent Sacco is gone as well. Does anyone know why Deadmarsh was moved into the video room? Was it by his request? I won't be surprised if he gets moved back out behind the bench (no fat jokes please) and Army gets shuffled away somewhere or just scuttled entirely.

I can't think of a single poster here who will welcome the probable promotion of Eric Lacroix if it indeed happens. I'm hoping/praying KSE finally takes notice of the mess they have on their hands and do something big. But I'm not holding my breath.

Av-merican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 10:03 PM
  #65
dahrougem2
Registered User
 
dahrougem2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 1,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Negotiation tactics are the exact same under Sherman as they were under Giguere and Lacroix before him. That should tell you all you need to know.

Another sign this franchise has run off the rails is the fact that Pierre Lacroix was in attendance in a recent game and it was reported like some big event. I don't expect the GM to be at every game, but Christ's sake how can this guy have so much control over a franchise he has so little to actually do with!?!?

How many failures, how many public embarrassments have to take place before KSE finally takes notice?

In terms of the Front Office as a whole, the scouting department has been fantastic, snagging good players through the draft and value acquisitions via free agency. Hard to evaluate a guy like Craig Billington though. What exactly does he do?

I advocate the promotion of Joe Sakic to team president simply because he won't be a stifling presence like Lacroix obviously is. If he is little more than a figurehead, that's fine by me. Something tells me he'll be more than that, but he also won't be a meddlesome presence.

As far as the coaching staff goes...what can we say? We are guaranteed one change (Quinn), and it seems pretty apparent Sacco is gone as well. Does anyone know why Deadmarsh was moved into the video room? Was it by his request? I won't be surprised if he gets moved back out behind the bench (no fat jokes please) and Army gets shuffled away somewhere or just scuttled entirely.

I can't think of a single poster here who will welcome the probable promotion of Eric Lacroix if it indeed happens. I'm hoping/praying KSE finally takes notice of the mess they have on their hands and do something big. But I'm not holding my breath.
Mess? What mess, the Nuggets look to be doing just fine heading into the post-season...

dahrougem2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:26 PM
  #66
The Kingslayer
Registered User
 
The Kingslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Yuck horse piss!
Country: Cambodia
Posts: 21,901
vCash: 291
This young team was ready to challenge, almost, for a Stanley Cup this season. They were so good. All they needed was some more chemistry, and some synergies. Instead, they destroyed the team," Stastny told KMOX radio in St. Louis. "I don't know what they were thinking in the Colorado organization. I should not have said this, but I'm so, so mad what they've done to this team. They've moved the team about two to three years back again.

The Kingslayer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:33 PM
  #67
shadow1
Registered User
 
shadow1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 11,302
vCash: 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kingslayer View Post
This young team was ready to challenge, almost, for a Stanley Cup this season. They were so good. All they needed was some more chemistry, and some synergies. Instead, they destroyed the team," Stastny told KMOX radio in St. Louis. "I don't know what they were thinking in the Colorado organization. I should not have said this, but I'm so, so mad what they've done to this team. They've moved the team about two to three years back again.
Eerie. It's almost like he predicted the future.

At the time, a laughing stock to all. But in the end Mr. Stastny wins and we're all left weeping.

shadow1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2013, 11:57 PM
  #68
Hennessy
Blank Space
 
Hennessy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Country: United States
Posts: 6,787
vCash: 1100
I've got no issues with Sherman. Or at least none that have me calling for his head. I think much of the criticism against him is borne of (understandable) frustration.

As for why Sacco still has a job, it makes one wonder if the Avs have someone in the wings. Obvious guess being Roy, even if I'm skeptical of that. But it would explain why they've not pulled the trigger yet. Though that only excuses this season.

Hennessy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2013, 12:25 AM
  #69
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Country: United States
Posts: 18,800
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Eerie. It's almost like he predicted the future.

At the time, a laughing stock to all. But in the end Mr. Stastny wins and we're all left weeping.
I seriously don't think this team would be all that better with Shattenkirk on the top pairing with a bunch of 3rd pairing guys, as opposed to EJ with a bunch of 3rd pairing guys, and who knows what Stewart would look like given his inconsistency.

They have a problem with their system and coaching keeping them focused and playing up to their capability, rather than emotional and capable multiple mental errors, and going on long losing streaks.

They have a problem with each individual player's self motivation, and keeping themselves focuses without having the coaching staff work their ass off to keep them on point.

They'd have a problem with personel if they had Shatty and not EJ, because they'd have no real legit top pairing capable two way guy. It'd just be Shatty as an offensive guy hoping he doesn't get in too much trouble.

I'm pretty confident this team would not be that much better with Shatty and Stewart and without EJ. If anything they'd be more offensively one dimensional, which is what the problem is with this team from a a team perspective. Not the D, because they're obviously not talented enough, but from a team game, it's their achilles heel, and thankfully Jiggy was man enough to come out and put emphasis on that and the other weaknesses of this team.

Foppa2118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2013, 06:41 AM
  #70
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 29,138
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Eerie. It's almost like he predicted the future.

At the time, a laughing stock to all. But in the end Mr. Stastny wins and we're all left weeping.
So when fans here say we're two pieces from challenging for a Stanley Cup, they get mocked by you guys.

When Peter Stastny said we were two players (Stewart and Shattenkirk) away from challenging for a Stanley Cup, it's an eerily good prediction?

Here's the standings the night of the trade, since it seems people have forgotten how Avs did with Stewart and Shattenkirk.



Last edited by Freudian: 04-10-2013 at 06:49 AM.
Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2013, 07:11 AM
  #71
iceberg
Registered User
 
iceberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Country: Brazil
Posts: 682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
So when fans here say we're two pieces from challenging for a Stanley Cup, they get mocked by you guys.

When Peter Stastny said we were two players (Stewart and Shattenkirk) away from challenging for a Stanley Cup, it's an eerily good prediction?

Here's the standings the night of the trade, since it seems people have forgotten how Avs did with Stewart and Shattenkirk.

So, because we were low in the standings it was ok to trade both of those players??

How about we trade Landeskog since we are the worst team in the NHL right now???

iceberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2013, 07:32 AM
  #72
avs1dacup
Registered User
 
avs1dacup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 3,434
vCash: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
So, because we were low in the standings it was ok to trade both of those players??

How about we trade Landeskog since we are the worst team in the NHL right now???
That's not the point. The point is the team sucked with them and they suck without them, so they must not have had THAT big an effect.

I tend to agree with Foppa on this. Keeping those two and not having EJ, this defense would be a little better moving the puck, but they'd be worse in their own zone. By a lot.

Stewart is the the one that hurts losing more than Shatty. But again, who knows how he would deal with Sacco's crap this year. For all we know, he'd just be another Jones, capable of 30+ goals but underperforming with a whole 4 or 5.

avs1dacup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2013, 11:02 AM
  #73
S E P H
@Krzysztof_WHL
 
S E P H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Avs Country!
Country: Poland
Posts: 4,451
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
So, because we were low in the standings it was ok to trade both of those players??

How about we trade Landeskog since we are the worst team in the NHL right now???
Depends on what we get back, if it is OEL then sure.

S E P H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2013, 11:06 AM
  #74
iceberg
Registered User
 
iceberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Country: Brazil
Posts: 682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by avs1dacup View Post
That's not the point. The point is the team sucked with them and they suck without them, so they must not have had THAT big an effect.

I tend to agree with Foppa on this. Keeping those two and not having EJ, this defense would be a little better moving the puck, but they'd be worse in their own zone. By a lot.

Stewart is the the one that hurts losing more than Shatty. But again, who knows how he would deal with Sacco's crap this year. For all we know, he'd just be another Jones, capable of 30+ goals but underperforming with a whole 4 or 5.
But is the same logic... The team sucked then with Duchene, sucks with Duchene now, so he must not have that big an effect... let's trade him... let's trade ROR too, and Stastny, and since EJ didn't make this team better, let's trade him too.

For an organization that preaches patience, they overreacted after a though losing streak and traded two of our best prospects for and underachieving defensemen from another team. Bad trade, sorry.

We could be better without that trade, or not, we'll never know.

To me, it looked like a bad trade then and it looks even worst now. The only way this trade looks better in the short term is if Siemens becomes a reliable top 4 dman, otherwise is a complete failure.

iceberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2013, 11:30 AM
  #75
Bubba Thudd
Moderator
#AvsNewAge
 
Bubba Thudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Avaland
Posts: 12,647
vCash: 50
I didn't mind the trade then, and I still don't mind it.

IMO, EJ is a better overall defenseman.
And, IMO, Stewart was lazy, and I don't think he wanted to be here.

__________________
Call for the Priest, I'm Dying!
Bubba Thudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:41 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.