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Cory Schneider -- Our Saviour

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Old
04-09-2013, 01:51 AM
  #76
vector209
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It's all about athleticism. Schneider's got Luongo beat there. His lateral movement (something that doesn't get credited enough) is far superior to Lu's.

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04-09-2013, 01:54 AM
  #77
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(Thankfully)Schneider doesn't need to belly flop any time he makes a cross crease play

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04-09-2013, 01:55 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Schneider is good, but he is no roy
yeah but roy is also no roy

sign me up for the schneider army

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04-09-2013, 02:00 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I'm happy Schneider's doing well and hope he is the guy that will lead us to a Cup but we don't need to take shots at Luongo or make stuff up to further the point.

Let's look at their resumes:
Luongo
-NHL - lost in finals (I'd say still team MVP in the playoffs though)
-Olympic Gold medallist
-World Championship Gold x 2
-World Cup champion (played semis due to Brodeur injury, but not finals)
- World Juniors - lost in finals despite standing on his head (named to tournament team)
-QMJHL title x 2

Schneider
-NHL - left a playoff game due to stress (against Chicago), played well in 3 games last year but lost 2 out of 3.
-AHL - lost in finals
-College - lost in finals
-World Junior Championships - lost in semis and then lost bronze despite being favored pre-tournament (Kessel, Ryan, both Johnsons)
-High school - never made it past semis

I'd argue in all except the WJC that Schneider played quite well but Luongo certainly has a better history of winning. There is no evidence that shows that Schneider plays better when games matter, as a matter of fact, despite making it to the finals or near the finals at many levels, he's barely won anything at all.
Quick didn't have that impressive a resume either and we all know how that turned out (Cup win and Conn Smythe). Schneider just needs the chance to carry the load in the playoffs. He got only his first opportunity just last year.

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04-09-2013, 02:34 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Quick didn't have that impressive a resume either and we all know how that turned out (Cup win and Conn Smythe). Schneider just needs the chance to carry the load in the playoffs. He got only his first opportunity just last year.
I think Schneider just needs a team that can average more than a couple goals per game in the playoffs. Schneider's AHL and college final losses came with a rather low level of goal support. Similar to Luongo vs. Boston, you're putting the goalie in a tough spot if you can barely score most of the time.

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04-09-2013, 02:39 AM
  #81
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Yes Cory is a great goaltender no doubt about that but on the flip side i feel bad for Lou. Because of his contracted he is stuck with a team he might love but he is not playing at all or if he does it is as a back up.

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04-09-2013, 02:57 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Quick didn't have that impressive a resume either and we all know how that turned out (Cup win and Conn Smythe). Schneider just needs the chance to carry the load in the playoffs. He got only his first opportunity just last year.
And how was Quick in his first run at being a starter? I believe that we shelled him right? I can't believe that virtually no one is concerned about this. And Schnieders numbers have always been good because he's played against non playoff teams for pretty much his entire career, he was a backup, and this run he's on now, well, 9 of 11 against non playoff teams. The playoffs are another beast, when he's getting run and having good teams picking apart the finer details of his technique things can get real tough real fast.

So now Schnieder has to step in and play like Patrick Roy, he basically has two years to win a cup, if he fails in that, the fans will be all over him by his contract year.

He has been sitting there watching the fans here throw our one time saviour Lou under the bus, do you really think that he is going to extend and put himself through that? Think about it, he will be on the first flight to the East coast. Anybody remember that Lou posted shutouts in game 1 and game 5 of the final, he was a conn smyth candidate, and it was hardly a collapse after that, in game 7 he gave up three, the fourth was an empty netter and we didn't score ANY goals. He still has had that pegged on him?!?! You think Schnider didn't notice that?

The fans here always blame the goalie, even when the forwards don't score a single goal! We had exactly a 0% chance of winning three of the seven games in the 2011 final... who's fault is that, Lou's obviously.

And this is a no win situation, because if Schnieds does win a cup, how much is that extension going to cost? Rinne is the highest paid right now at 7 million per, so more than that... how does that effect the team as a whole? It means that we will be forced to become a defensive goalie centered team, the new New Jersey.

There are not many things that I have been critical of, but the length of Schnieders contract is a serious problem long term for this organization. I still can't believe that it wasn't because they planned on keeping Lou and not Schnieds, it just makes no sense at all. If he is the new starter, why risk trading Lou and having no #1 in just three years when he is in his prime?

So you are all applauding us reducing our window to the next three seasons.... brilliant stuff

My only hope is that Lou somehow gets a shot in the playoffs and all the anger and frustration that he must be feeling fuels a fire that takes him and us all the way to the cup just to spite the ungrateful fickle fans of this team.

/rant

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04-09-2013, 02:58 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Quick didn't have that impressive a resume either and we all know how that turned out (Cup win and Conn Smythe). Schneider just needs the chance to carry the load in the playoffs. He got only his first opportunity just last year.
Quick:
-Travel hockey - won back to back national championships
-Won NE prepschool championship twice (Schneider played in this league at a high end hockey school)
-In college he took his team to the NCAA tournament for the first time in their history (heavy underdog) but lost in the 2nd round (shutout in 1st round 1-0 OT win)
-Minors, never played a whole season in the minors the way Cory did, he had ECHL time, then AHL time, and NHL time in his first pro season, then was in the NHL in his 2nd pro season
-NHL, won the Cup and the Conn Smythe

He did have a history of winning championships and winning big games.

That being said, I'm hoping Cory can post solid starts from here until the end and win the Veizna. Right now I see him behind Lundqvist and Rask but could see him pulling ahead if he and the team keeps playing well.


Last edited by DJOpus: 04-09-2013 at 03:23 AM.
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04-09-2013, 03:19 AM
  #84
Sergei Shirokov
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All hail lord Schneider.

He will lead us to glory. Since Cory rhymes with Glory.

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04-09-2013, 03:26 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Whale View Post
And how was Quick in his first run at being a starter? I believe that we shelled him right? I can't believe that virtually no one is concerned about this. And Schnieders numbers have always been good because he's played against non playoff teams for pretty much his entire career, he was a backup, and this run he's on now, well, 9 of 11 against non playoff teams. The playoffs are another beast, when he's getting run and having good teams picking apart the finer details of his technique things can get real tough real fast.

So now Schnieder has to step in and play like Patrick Roy, he basically has two years to win a cup, if he fails in that, the fans will be all over him by his contract year.

He has been sitting there watching the fans here throw our one time saviour Lou under the bus, do you really think that he is going to extend and put himself through that? Think about it, he will be on the first flight to the East coast. Anybody remember that Lou posted shutouts in game 1 and game 5 of the final, he was a conn smyth candidate, and it was hardly a collapse after that, in game 7 he gave up three, the fourth was an empty netter and we didn't score ANY goals. He still has had that pegged on him?!?! You think Schnider didn't notice that?

The fans here always blame the goalie, even when the forwards don't score a single goal! We had exactly a 0% chance of winning three of the seven games in the 2011 final... who's fault is that, Lou's obviously.

And this is a no win situation, because if Schnieds does win a cup, how much is that extension going to cost? Rinne is the highest paid right now at 7 million per, so more than that... how does that effect the team as a whole? It means that we will be forced to become a defensive goalie centered team, the new New Jersey.

There are not many things that I have been critical of, but the length of Schnieders contract is a serious problem long term for this organization. I still can't believe that it wasn't because they planned on keeping Lou and not Schnieds, it just makes no sense at all. If he is the new starter, why risk trading Lou and having no #1 in just three years when he is in his prime?

So you are all applauding us reducing our window to the next three seasons.... brilliant stuff

My only hope is that Lou somehow gets a shot in the playoffs and all the anger and frustration that he must be feeling fuels a fire that takes him and us all the way to the cup just to spite the ungrateful fickle fans of this team.

/rant
I have the utmost respect for Luongo and ultimately wish he could stamp his Canuck resume with a Stanley Cup win but he had his chances and, for several reasons other than his own play, couldn't get it done. The Canucks found themselves in the unique position of having not just a good goalie, but a great goalie, come through the system and play too well in his limited stints to be ignored. If Schneider wasn't simply this good, I think the Canucks would have shipped him off by now and continued on with Luongo in net for the duration of his contract.

Is there a hint of concern about Schneider's lack of experience? Yes, but I think most Canucks fans, like the organization, have accepted the fact that there's a new face of the Canucks net now and that he has to be given his chance. In short, it doesn't matter if there are risks. It's Schneider's time now, like it or not.

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04-09-2013, 03:53 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
I have the utmost respect for Luongo and ultimately wish he could stamp his Canuck resume with a Stanley Cup win but he had his chances and, for several reasons other than his own play, couldn't get it done. The Canucks found themselves in the unique position of having not just a good goalie, but a great goalie, come through the system and play too well in his limited stints to be ignored. If Schneider wasn't simply this good, I think the Canucks would have shipped him off by now and continued on with Luongo in net for the duration of his contract.

Is there a hint of concern about Schneider's lack of experience? Yes, but I think most Canucks fans, like the organization, have accepted the fact that there's a new face of the Canucks net now and that he has to be given his chance. In short, it doesn't matter if there are risks. It's Schneider's time now, like it or not.
And a short time it will likely be... even he can't win games when his team scores no goals, but he will get blamed, and leave as a UFA...

I like Cory, and he may just be the goalie when this team gets it done, but I have been a fan since 82, so I am not holding my breath... my biggest nightmare is that in four years we have to start rebuilding and spend 5-6 years searching for a new #1 because of short sighted asset management, and wait another decade to get back to where we are now.

If that happens I will probably just throw in the towel and stop following hockey all together to be honest.

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04-09-2013, 10:14 AM
  #87
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And a short time it will likely be... even he can't win games when his team scores no goals, but he will get blamed, and leave as a UFA...

I like Cory, and he may just be the goalie when this team gets it done, but I have been a fan since 82, so I am not holding my breath... my biggest nightmare is that in four years we have to start rebuilding and spend 5-6 years searching for a new #1 because of short sighted asset management, and wait another decade to get back to where we are now.

If that happens I will probably just throw in the towel and stop following hockey all together to be honest.
Teams in this league (or any other sport for that matter) go through cycles similar to the economy, ie. there'll always be a boom (peaking into SC contender) and a recession (rebuilding). It's the nature of the world, my friend.

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04-09-2013, 11:00 AM
  #88
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And how was Quick in his first run at being a starter? I believe that we shelled him right? I can't believe that virtually no one is concerned about this. And Schnieders numbers have always been good because he's played against non playoff teams for pretty much his entire career, he was a backup, and this run he's on now, well, 9 of 11 against non playoff teams. The playoffs are another beast, when he's getting run and having good teams picking apart the finer details of his technique things can get real tough real fast.

So now Schnieder has to step in and play like Patrick Roy, he basically has two years to win a cup, if he fails in that, the fans will be all over him by his contract year.

He has been sitting there watching the fans here throw our one time saviour Lou under the bus, do you really think that he is going to extend and put himself through that? Think about it, he will be on the first flight to the East coast. Anybody remember that Lou posted shutouts in game 1 and game 5 of the final, he was a conn smyth candidate, and it was hardly a collapse after that, in game 7 he gave up three, the fourth was an empty netter and we didn't score ANY goals. He still has had that pegged on him?!?! You think Schnider didn't notice that?

The fans here always blame the goalie, even when the forwards don't score a single goal! We had exactly a 0% chance of winning three of the seven games in the 2011 final... who's fault is that, Lou's obviously.

And this is a no win situation, because if Schnieds does win a cup, how much is that extension going to cost? Rinne is the highest paid right now at 7 million per, so more than that... how does that effect the team as a whole? It means that we will be forced to become a defensive goalie centered team, the new New Jersey.

There are not many things that I have been critical of, but the length of Schnieders contract is a serious problem long term for this organization. I still can't believe that it wasn't because they planned on keeping Lou and not Schnieds, it just makes no sense at all. If he is the new starter, why risk trading Lou and having no #1 in just three years when he is in his prime?

So you are all applauding us reducing our window to the next three seasons.... brilliant stuff

My only hope is that Lou somehow gets a shot in the playoffs and all the anger and frustration that he must be feeling fuels a fire that takes him and us all the way to the cup just to spite the ungrateful fickle fans of this team.

/rant
I agree with all you points except the last one. From what you write, you imply the Canucks should (for their future success) keep Luongo. Therefore, stating that Luongo should replace (for whatever reason) Schneider, and make a playoff run contradicts that point. Don't you believe it would be best for Schnieder to continue to play very well, into the play-offs too, and in the summer, Schnieder is traded for a missing piece? (I would expect you would like to see a top goal scorer in return. I think they need a #1 D-man, but that's a different thread.)

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04-09-2013, 11:02 AM
  #89
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What worries me just slightly is how he'll play more than 50+ games in a season. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
He played 62 games in his last year in the AHL.

Honestly, if he can play this stretch in a condensed NHL season without getting fatigued, it probably bodes well for the team being able to rely on him during a full season.

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04-09-2013, 01:08 PM
  #90
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He played 62 games in his last year in the AHL.

Honestly, if he can play this stretch in a condensed NHL season without getting fatigued, it probably bodes well for the team being able to rely on him during a full season.
I don't want to always be the guy that points out negative things because I do think that Cory is great but it needs to be pointed out that the year he went from playing 40 games in the AHL (+8 in the NHL) to the year he played 62, his save% dropped from 0.928 to 0.919 which is pretty significant.

I honestly don't think it will be an issue though...I just can't say that empirical evidence supports what I'm saying (which you seem to indicate it does).

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04-09-2013, 01:13 PM
  #91
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I don't want to always be the guy that points out negative things because I do think that Cory is great but it needs to be pointed out that the year he went from playing 40 games in the AHL (+8 in the NHL) to the year he played 62, his save% dropped from 0.928 to 0.919 which is pretty significant.

I honestly don't think it will be an issue though...I just can't say that empirical evidence supports what I'm saying (which you seem to indicate it does).

Letting in 9 more goals on every 1,000 shots is significant?

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04-09-2013, 01:27 PM
  #92
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There are at least two dozen goalies in this league "good enough" to take a team to the cup. We're fortunate enough to have a couple of them.

Now let's go out there and win the ****ing thing already.

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04-09-2013, 01:55 PM
  #93
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I'm just glad the team seems willing to bite the bullet and stick with the better goaltender regardless of Luongo's status with the team. Going with Schneider from here on out is the right thing to do for this organization.

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04-09-2013, 01:58 PM
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Letting in 9 more goals on every 1,000 shots is significant?
Save % has a lot to do with quality of the scoring chances too.

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04-09-2013, 02:04 PM
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Vezina candidate!

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04-09-2013, 02:21 PM
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I'm just glad the team seems willing to bite the bullet and stick with the better goaltender regardless of Luongo's status with the team. Going with Schneider from here on out is the right thing to do for this organization.
Good point. It is kind of gutsy for the organization, for sure. Respect.

I was all for giving Schneider a good long run in net but now it's starting to surprise even me how long he's been given the nod. Then again, he keeps pitching shutouts, which pretty much guarantees follow up starts for most coaches.

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04-09-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I'm happy Schneider's doing well and hope he is the guy that will lead us to a Cup but we don't need to take shots at Luongo or make stuff up to further the point.

Let's look at their resumes:
Luongo
-NHL - lost in finals (I'd say still team MVP in the playoffs though)
-Olympic Gold medallist
-World Championship Gold x 2
-World Cup champion (played semis due to Brodeur injury, but not finals)
- World Juniors - lost in finals despite standing on his head (named to tournament team)
-QMJHL title x 2

Schneider
-NHL - left a playoff game due to stress (against Chicago), played well in 3 games last year but lost 2 out of 3.
-AHL - lost in finals
-College - lost in finals
-World Junior Championships - lost in semis and then lost bronze despite being favored pre-tournament (Kessel, Ryan, both Johnsons)
-High school - never made it past semis

I'd argue in all except the WJC that Schneider played quite well but Luongo certainly has a better history of winning. There is no evidence that shows that Schneider plays better when games matter, as a matter of fact, despite making it to the finals or near the finals at many levels, he's barely won anything at all.
You are have an interesting slant on how to present the data. Cory left a game due to cramps but Luongo leaving in OT to poop doesn't warrant mention? Or losing in OT with your arm in the air calling a penalty? Never mind the Chicago meltdowns.

I am not on either side, I just found your presentation interesting.

BTW, at age 26 Luongo had never even played in an NHL playoff game.

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04-09-2013, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Whale View Post
And how was Quick in his first run at being a starter? I believe that we shelled him right? I can't believe that virtually no one is concerned about this. And Schnieders numbers have always been good because he's played against non playoff teams for pretty much his entire career, he was a backup, and this run he's on now, well, 9 of 11 against non playoff teams. The playoffs are another beast, when he's getting run and having good teams picking apart the finer details of his technique things can get real tough real fast.

So now Schnieder has to step in and play like Patrick Roy, he basically has two years to win a cup, if he fails in that, the fans will be all over him by his contract year.

He has been sitting there watching the fans here throw our one time saviour Lou under the bus, do you really think that he is going to extend and put himself through that? Think about it, he will be on the first flight to the East coast. Anybody remember that Lou posted shutouts in game 1 and game 5 of the final, he was a conn smyth candidate, and it was hardly a collapse after that, in game 7 he gave up three, the fourth was an empty netter and we didn't score ANY goals. He still has had that pegged on him?!?! You think Schnider didn't notice that?

The fans here always blame the goalie, even when the forwards don't score a single goal! We had exactly a 0% chance of winning three of the seven games in the 2011 final... who's fault is that, Lou's obviously.

And this is a no win situation, because if Schnieds does win a cup, how much is that extension going to cost? Rinne is the highest paid right now at 7 million per, so more than that... how does that effect the team as a whole? It means that we will be forced to become a defensive goalie centered team, the new New Jersey.

There are not many things that I have been critical of, but the length of Schnieders contract is a serious problem long term for this organization. I still can't believe that it wasn't because they planned on keeping Lou and not Schnieds, it just makes no sense at all. If he is the new starter, why risk trading Lou and having no #1 in just three years when he is in his prime?

So you are all applauding us reducing our window to the next three seasons.... brilliant stuff

My only hope is that Lou somehow gets a shot in the playoffs and all the anger and frustration that he must be feeling fuels a fire that takes him and us all the way to the cup just to spite the ungrateful fickle fans of this team.

/rant
Cam Ward says Hi.

Also, Thankfully Schneider is not as thin skinned as some of the fans here.

You think he'd be disgusted that fans here have bought Luongo jerseys in droves, supported him and screamed his name every time he touched the puck, and that the team rewarded him by making him one of the richest goalies in NHL history, only to willingly anoint Schneider when he himself deserved it?

You're right. He's rather be in Tampa.

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04-09-2013, 03:03 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Whale View Post
My only hope is that Lou somehow gets a shot in the playoffs and all the anger and frustration that he must be feeling fuels a fire that takes him and us all the way to the cup just to spite the ungrateful fickle fans of this team.
/rant
As a totally unqualified & unregistered untherapist, I would suggest you wash your mind of ideas like this as they take up energy and space that could be used for far better pursuits. I do not understand the "either/or" mentality and the need to pick a side. The only side really is picking the Canucks.

I do not care if Sean Avery leads us to the Cup with Robert Pickton in net and Graham James coaching, just win.

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04-09-2013, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Moses View Post
Cam Ward says Hi.

Also, Thankfully Schneider is not as thin skinned as some of the fans here.

You think he'd be disgusted that fans here have bought Luongo jerseys in droves, supported him and screamed his name every time he touched the puck, and that the team rewarded him by making him one of the richest goalies in NHL history, only to willingly anoint Schneider when he himself deserved it?

You're right. He's rather be in Tampa.
And Moses sweeps in to save his people.

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