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Flames sign Laurent Brossoit to ELC ($925k AAV)

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04-09-2013, 12:52 PM
  #26
herashak
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Originally Posted by DBU View Post
He really was not that bad in his brief time in the NHL, but clearly the Flames were more content with giving a veteran MacDonald and a first-time NHLer Danny Taylor the shots over Irving. I'd be extremely pissed off if I'm Irving, and you can bet I'd be out of here the first chance I got.
who cares its better for both parties if he goes.

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04-09-2013, 01:00 PM
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He really was not that bad in his brief time in the NHL, but clearly the Flames were more content with giving a veteran MacDonald and a first-time NHLer Danny Taylor the shots over Irving. I'd be extremely pissed off if I'm Irving, and you can bet I'd be out of here the first chance I got.
As would I. Cant blame him when he walks at this point. He will probably find more success somewhere else.

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04-09-2013, 01:09 PM
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He really was not that bad in his brief time in the NHL, but clearly the Flames were more content with giving a veteran MacDonald and a first-time NHLer Danny Taylor the shots over Irving. I'd be extremely pissed off if I'm Irving, and you can bet I'd be out of here the first chance I got.
He had an 880 sv % and a 3.33 gaa in the nhl this season.
What reality are you living in where thats considered acceptable?

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04-09-2013, 01:21 PM
  #29
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He had an 880 sv % and a 3.33 gaa in the nhl this season.
What reality are you living in where thats considered acceptable?
There is no way to evaluate our goalies' play this year through stats alone; our defence has just been that terrible.

We've had plenty of games where even if we give up only 25 shots against, plenty of those shots we do give up are gift-wrapped goals.

If you allow no shots other than 9 clear-cut breakaways in a game, there's a good chance your goalie could have less than a .500 save % and greater than a 4.00 GAA and it still wouldn't be his fault.

That said, Leland had some shaky moments, but every one of our goalies who has played this season has too, so that's not really saying anything.

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04-09-2013, 02:03 PM
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There is no way to evaluate our goalies' play this year through stats alone; our defence has just been that terrible.

We've had plenty of games where even if we give up only 25 shots against, plenty of those shots we do give up are gift-wrapped goals.

If you allow no shots other than 9 clear-cut breakaways in a game, there's a good chance your goalie could have less than a .500 save % and greater than a 4.00 GAA and it still wouldn't be his fault.

That said, Leland had some shaky moments, but every one of our goalies who has played this season has too, so that's not really saying anything.
Okay... so how is it that while brust and taylor were putting up great numbers in abbotsford, while irvings werent much better than his nhl stats?

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04-09-2013, 02:12 PM
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Okay... so how is it that while brust and taylor were putting up great numbers in abbotsford, while irvings werent much better than his nhl stats?
Well, see, that's a much better use of statistics.

It's always possible that Leland's problems this year have been mental; maybe his motivation is lacking given the organization has only played him 11 times in the minor leagues. I thought his play in the NHL was much better than his numbers in the AHL indicated, and that might be due to the fact that he was ready to rise to the challenge. The only really bad game which stood out to me was the 7-4 win against Dallas where he let in some real softies.

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04-09-2013, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
He had an 880 sv % and a 3.33 gaa in the nhl this season.
What reality are you living in where thats considered acceptable?
The same reality where Kiprusoff's 3.58 GAA & 0.873 SV% is considered "better".

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04-09-2013, 04:10 PM
  #33
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How has irving been treated unfairly? Hes played poorly in ahl and nhl....
Irving has been given next to no playing time for one. He was playing 1-2 times a month before the lockout ended, so can you really even take those stats seriously? He wasn't even on the bench regularly.

Then in the NHL his stats were bad sure, but Irving was dismissed and sent to purgatory in the AHL (where he has played very well since) despite having better numbers than Kiprusoff and a better winning percentage than both Kipper & MacDonald.

I like Irving and I think he get's talked about like its all his fault more often than he should, but that said it is time for him to move on to another organization that may actually utilize him, because he is much better than the number this year have shown.

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04-09-2013, 04:24 PM
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How has irving been treated unfairly? Hes played poorly in ahl and nhl....
It is about the chances he has been given. In the ahl if he had a bad game he wouldn't see the ice for weeks but if Taylor or Brust have a **** game they get a day break and then get another chance. In the nhl MacDonald got light up and was given a game 2 days later when Irving had a bad game they gave MacDonald the starter role and sent Irving to the ahl.

It isn't that people think Irving is the best goalie since Roy, but when you look at how other goalies are treated after bad games versus how Irving has been treated there is a huge difference. Regardless of if it is because Irving was a "Sutter guy" or they simply don't think he has a future in the nhl, it is very clear that management has given up on Irving regardless of what he does on or off the ice.

Kipper has been dreadful this year but if you bring it up his numbers people say "We have **** defense its not all on him" but when we talk about Irving the numbers apparently tell the whole story.

This team is suppose to be going with a youth movement and we are giving Horak, Sven, Reinhart, Carson etc a chance to prove themselves but Irving most likely won't get a start in either the ahl or the nhl because we have the youth movement in net lead by 33 year old MacDonald and 36 year old Kiprusoff. If this is how we start the youth movement its going to be a long decade. /end rant

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04-09-2013, 04:51 PM
  #35
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It is about the chances he has been given. In the ahl if he had a bad game he wouldn't see the ice for weeks but if Taylor or Brust have a **** game they get a day break and then get another chance. In the nhl MacDonald got light up and was given a game 2 days later when Irving had a bad game they gave MacDonald the starter role and sent Irving to the ahl.

It isn't that people think Irving is the best goalie since Roy, but when you look at how other goalies are treated after bad games versus how Irving has been treated there is a huge difference. Regardless of if it is because Irving was a "Sutter guy" or they simply don't think he has a future in the nhl, it is very clear that management has given up on Irving regardless of what he does on or off the ice.

Kipper has been dreadful this year but if you bring it up his numbers people say "We have **** defense its not all on him" but when we talk about Irving the numbers apparently tell the whole story.

This team is suppose to be going with a youth movement and we are giving Horak, Sven, Reinhart, Carson etc a chance to prove themselves but Irving most likely won't get a start in either the ahl or the nhl because we have the youth movement in net lead by 33 year old MacDonald and 36 year old Kiprusoff. If this is how we start the youth movement its going to be a long decade. /end rant
Agree with most of your rant.

It makes me think there is some other issue at play here than Irving's abilities.

He went from the high of beating out Karlsson for back-up behind an ailing Kipper to AHL Bench-warmer in a span of less than a month.

That just doesn't happen in a normal situation and it makes me think there may be some attitude or commitment issues at play here. Or management is just dicking him around for whatever reason.

Either way, Irving still has yet to be given a real shot at the NHL, and if Kipper is calling it quits on this team for the rest of the season then they need to bring Irving up and see what they have in him.

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04-09-2013, 05:11 PM
  #36
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Don't think Feaster was ever a fan of Irving; he may have even been slightly biased against him since he was a Sutter draft pick. Even last summer when it was clear Irving was the second best goaltender on the Flames, Feaster still it made it very obvious that the organization had no faith in him - from refusing to play him in the AHL during the lockout to waiving him at the end camp, even though he had been better than Karlsson by a healthy margin.

Considering where the Flames are at the moment, playing a 33 year journeymen over Irving has got to be one of the most asinine things they've done in recent years.

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04-09-2013, 05:14 PM
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Don't think Feaster was ever a fan of Irving; he may have even been slightly biased against him since he was a Sutter draft pick. Even last summer when it was clear Irving was the second best goaltender on the Flames, Feaster still it made it very obvious that the organization had no faith in him - from refusing to play him in the AHL during the lockout to waiving him at the end camp, even though he had been better than Karlsson by a healthy margin.

Considering where the Flames are at the moment, playing a 33 year journeymen over Irving has got to be one of the most asinine things they've done in recent years.
This is what I don't get. Feaster goes on and on about needing to get younger and yet we have a potential nhl goalie sitting in the press box in the AHL while we let 33 yearold MacDonald show case himself for FA. Either Feaster hates Irving for what ever reason or he is a blind fool.

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04-09-2013, 05:16 PM
  #38
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Don't think Feaster was ever a fan of Irving; he may have even been slightly biased against him since he was a Sutter draft pick. Even last summer when it was clear Irving was the second best goaltender on the Flames, Feaster still it made it very obvious that the organization had no faith in him - from refusing to play him in the AHL during the lockout to waiving him at the end camp, even though he had been better than Karlsson by a healthy margin.

Considering where the Flames are at the moment, playing a 33 year journeymen over Irving has got to be one of the most asinine things they've done in recent years.
It seems like that is what is going on, but its hard to believe an organization could be that asinine.

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04-09-2013, 05:27 PM
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This is what I don't get. Feaster goes on and on about needing to get younger and yet we have a potential nhl goalie sitting in the press box in the AHL while we let 33 yearold MacDonald show case himself for FA. Either Feaster hates Irving for what ever reason or he is a blind fool.
Yes.

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It seems like that is what is going on, but its hard to believe an organization could be that asinine.
When Feaster took the mantle as full time GM, he didn't hesitate to disparage other Sutter draft picks like Pelech and Nemisz. Seems like he came in with some preconceived notions against certain guys that he had a hard time letting go of. Even Hartley didn't blame Irving for his last game as a Flame - he put it square on the defense, the same defense that was built by Feaster and is ranked dead last in goals against.

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04-09-2013, 05:31 PM
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I guess all the teams that didnt claim irving off waivers hate him too?
He may not have been given a lot of chances, but he hasnt made the most of his opportunities this year. He looks like another failed sutter draft pick.

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04-09-2013, 05:35 PM
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I guess all the teams that didnt claim irving off waivers hate him too?
He may not have been given a lot of chances, but he hasnt made the most of his opportunities this year. He looks like another failed sutter draft pick.
Other teams aren't trying to rebuild and looking for a goaltender next year, other teams have better options, other teams actual give their prospects a chance before they give the job to a 33 year old tweener.

If you can't see the difference between the Flames giving Irving a real chance when the season is basically over and other teams giving Irving a chance when they are playing for something then you will never understand anything that we are saying.

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04-09-2013, 05:38 PM
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I guess all the teams that didnt claim irving off waivers hate him too?
He may not have been given a lot of chances, but he hasnt made the most of his opportunities this year. He looks like another failed sutter draft pick.
The timing on that was important as well as it was right before the deadline and most teams only had a couple of contracts spots and didn't want to fill them up with an accessory piece.

If Irving was on the trade block im positive a team would give up an asset to get him, so its not that he is unwanted per-say.

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04-09-2013, 05:46 PM
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Irving has looked shaky and mentally weak for the big club imo and not too good for the Heat. Why are so many against the McDonald pickup like some travesty has occurred when he has performed his duties really well and in pressure situations?

At some point, Leland has to string together more than a few good saves, minutes, periods, games. He has to show that he can overcome adversity and is hungry to prove that he can be relied upon consistently regardless of how the team is playing in front of him. I don't see those signs presently. I like what McDonald has shown.

Good to see Brossoit getting his shot.

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04-09-2013, 05:55 PM
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Irving has looked shaky and mentally weak for the big club imo and not too good for the Heat. Why are so many against the McDonald pickup like some travesty has occurred when he has performed his duties really well and in pressure situations?

At some point, Leland has to string together more than a few good saves, minutes, periods, games. He has to show that he can overcome adversity and is hungry to prove that he can be relied upon consistently regardless of how the team is playing in front of him. I don't see those signs presently. I like what McDonald has shown.

Good to see Brossoit getting his shot.
McDonald hasn't shown anymore than Kipper or Irving, all 3 have had bad stretches and good stretches and yet we need youth so the 1 goalie we give the least amount of time or chances to is Irving the rookie it is a puzzling move by this organization.

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04-09-2013, 06:02 PM
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McDonald hasn't shown anymore than Kipper or Irving, all 3 have had bad stretches and good stretches and yet we need youth so the 1 goalie we give the least amount of time or chances to is Irving the rookie it is a puzzling move by this organization.
I would actually disagree. Joey Mac IMO has been the most steady in net this year than Kipper, Irving or Taylor.

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04-09-2013, 06:05 PM
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Joey Mac IMO has been the most steady in net this year than Kipper, Irving or Taylor.

Absolutely.

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04-09-2013, 06:11 PM
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I would actually disagree. Joey Mac IMO has been the most steady in net this year than Kipper, Irving or Taylor.
Slightly better than either Irving or Kipper but not enough to justify throwing away a prospect over. If Macdonald was 5 years younger I could understand this but the fact is Joey most likely only has a couple years left, Kipper is most likely done after this year. We need a goalie next year and for several years after that, Irving is the only goaltender that can fill that role and the organization not only doesn't play him but plays every other goalie before him.

Again if we even played Irving on the heat that would make some sense but over the last 2 months Brust has a sv% of .860 and he has been given 14 starts Irving has a SV% of .920 and has 5 starts. Taylor has a SV of .890 and has more than double the starts. Irving was hurt for 2 weeks but still gets **** on when he plays well in comparison.

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04-09-2013, 06:45 PM
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Slightly better than either Irving or Kipper but not enough to justify throwing away a prospect over. If Macdonald was 5 years younger I could understand this but the fact is Joey most likely only has a couple years left, Kipper is most likely done after this year. We need a goalie next year and for several years after that, Irving is the only goaltender that can fill that role and the organization not only doesn't play him but plays every other goalie before him.

Again if we even played Irving on the heat that would make some sense but over the last 2 months Brust has a sv% of .860 and he has been given 14 starts Irving has a SV% of .920 and has 5 starts. Taylor has a SV of .890 and has more than double the starts. Irving was hurt for 2 weeks but still gets **** on when he plays well in comparison.
IMO it's more than slightly. I think he's been quite noticably better and showing FAR more stability back there. Kipper's been a wreck back there for obvious reasons. I'd like for Kipper to be our back-up next year and bring in Ramo as our #1. We now have a plethora of young guys we can bring up as Plan B and Kipper as Plan C.

I really don't know why you think Iriving wasn't given a fair shot. He was the 3rd string on the Heat and who was called up first when Kipper went down? Him. He had all kinds of chances and just simply was not good enough to earn that title as our #1. Blame it on D, new system, whatever. The only goalie who has shown he can handle it this year IMO is Joey Mac.

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04-09-2013, 06:49 PM
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If you told me at the beginning of the year Joey MacDonald would be our #1 Goalie by the end of the year I would of called you insane, this team is in such a sad state.

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04-09-2013, 06:59 PM
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IMO it's more than slightly. I think he's been quite noticably better and showing FAR more stability back there. Kipper's been a wreck back there for obvious reasons. I'd like for Kipper to be our back-up next year and bring in Ramo as our #1. We now have a plethora of young guys we can bring up as Plan B and Kipper as Plan C.

I really don't know why you think Iriving wasn't given a fair shot. He was the 3rd string on the Heat and who was called up first when Kipper went down? Him. He had all kinds of chances and just simply was not good enough to earn that title as our #1. Blame it on D, new system, whatever. The only goalie who has shown he can handle it this year IMO is Joey Mac.
You mean 5 starts then demoted to the ahl after his only bad game in which the coach said wasn't his fault, yea all kinds of chances.

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