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Yes am going there: Is Gauthier a bit vindicated?

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Old
04-09-2013, 06:25 PM
  #226
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post


What I was talking about was about their vet presence on the team, not their skill set, since that is what the original poster was questioning.
Sort of like saying that you entered a chihuahua in a Greyhound race. Doesnt matter how fast he is, he is a dog just like a greyhound.

Since sorinth did not answer the question, I'll offer it up to you as well.

Do you wish Gauthier was still our GM and is he better than Bergevin?

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04-09-2013, 06:35 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Sort of like saying that you entered a chihuahua in a Greyhound race. Doesnt matter how fast he is, he is a dog just like a greyhound.

Since sorinth did not answer the question, I'll offer it up to you as well.

Do you wish Gauthier was still our GM and is he better than Bergevin?
I took a break to have supper, didn't realize I'd get called out for it

Do I want Gauthier back? No.
Does that mean he's a terrible GM? No.

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Old
04-09-2013, 06:39 PM
  #228
habs03
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Sort of like saying that you entered a chihuahua in a Greyhound race. Doesnt matter how fast he is, he is a dog just like a greyhound.

Since sorinth did not answer the question, I'll offer it up to you as well.

Do you wish Gauthier was still our GM and is he better than Bergevin?
Not one second, but I don't think he is as bad of a GM as some ppl make him out to be in regards to hockey related moves. While Gainey did a lot of good for this team he was a worse GM than Gauthier.

For me, until shown some evidence that Gauthier was behind the moves made Gainey made as GM, I can only judge him by the moves from when he took over until he was fired.

Ast GM and GM don't agree on all matters, and the GM has the final say, example was Bergevin in Habs Weekly 24CH said tha the difference between this trade line and past one, is that he gets the final say because he is GM.

I mean if you can provide some proof connecting Gauthier to the moves Gainey made I'd glady bash him, for example the Gomez trade if you somehow proof it was Gauthier I'll blame him for it, but just saying he was head pro scout doesn't do much for me, because where do I dare the line, do I credit Gauthier for the Rivet for Gorges deal as well?

GM and the ppl around them don't always agree, and I showed an example of what happined in Toronto where Nonnis wanted to hire Eakins, yet Burke still went with Carlye.

Edit: to add, taking it from another post but PG changed a bunch of scouts when he took over, why wasn't he able to make these changes if he had so much power under Gainey?

When Gauthier took over GM 2010, he fired a bunch of scouts, I remember there was a thread on here made by someone: maybe a family remember of one of the scouts or something, saying that Gauthier was firing everyone because of cost cuts and so forth.

But it turns out that Gauthier was just replacing them with other scouts, one of them was Ryan Jankowski

http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hockey...7_accueil_POS3

http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=534973

The same way I don't apply Gainey moves solely on PG, I don't blame Gainey for PG horrible none hockey related actions like the way dealing with players and the media.


Last edited by habs03: 04-09-2013 at 08:41 PM.
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Old
04-09-2013, 07:30 PM
  #229
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Regardless of his talent as a GM. Gauthier's ran the organization like the skull and bones. It's a sports team, not some secret society. Habs started to bore the **** out of me in the Gainey/Gauthier era.

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04-09-2013, 08:06 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I took a break to have supper, didn't realize I'd get called out for it

Do I want Gauthier back? No.
Does that mean he's a terrible GM? No.
Yea he was terrible.

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04-09-2013, 08:43 PM
  #231
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I'm not sure why you keep saying we've rushed him. 5th best save percentage since 2007 is great. Esp when you consider that the guy was about 20 years old when he started. Would more time in the AHL have hurt him? Maybe not but I think he's been fine without it. He's played well in the toughest market in the world. If anything, I think those early years in Montreal are going to help him going forward.
I keep saying it 'cause a top 5 pick has 2 things. Great number of expecations based on how high he is picked. And a great number of pressure based where he's playing. Thing is, at one moment you explain Price's "problems" based on how bad the team was and then praise him not mentioning how great the team was. The end-result with him is that when the going gets tough in the playoffs, he still, to this day, has no results to show for. And his biggest fail, of his young career, was to not be able to be THE guy to help us reaching the 3rd round. He does do good in regular seasons, does rack the stats. So he is good. But giving him 1 year of learning experience in the AHL with the highs and lows would have slowed down the expectations. And would probably have helped him answering the bell in the playoffs. Yes, he had some good games in the playoffs. But in the end, you don't remember a goalie by his great game here and there, but how far he brings his team in the playoffs. I mean, no he doesn't have to win the cup all year. But at one point, he will have to bring up a little further than anticipated. Or at the very least, make this great and even better one. In the end, no matter how we look at it, he had 2 very good seasons based on save% 07-08 and 10-11. And 1 good playoffs based on Save% in 10-11....but in 1 round only. I know...got beaten by the Cup Champions. That's the end-result on stats though. Not a bad goalie. Just believed he needed a little more time to even be a more determinant goalie that he already is.

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04-09-2013, 09:57 PM
  #232
SouthernHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I took a break to have supper, didn't realize I'd get called out for it

Do I want Gauthier back? No.
Does that mean he's a terrible GM? No.
Is he better than Bergevin though?

We had an awesome dinner (supper) at the SouthernHab household. Fired up the BBQ grill and threw some fresh shrimp on it. Damn good.

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Old
04-09-2013, 10:56 PM
  #233
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MONSIEUR Gauthier is a great ASSISTANT GM and scout.... No more than that.

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04-10-2013, 05:03 AM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I keep saying it 'cause a top 5 pick has 2 things. Great number of expecations based on how high he is picked. And a great number of pressure based where he's playing. Thing is, at one moment you explain Price's "problems" based on how bad the team was and then praise him not mentioning how great the team was. The end-result with him is that when the going gets tough in the playoffs, he still, to this day, has no results to show for. And his biggest fail, of his young career, was to not be able to be THE guy to help us reaching the 3rd round. He does do good in regular seasons, does rack the stats. So he is good. But giving him 1 year of learning experience in the AHL with the highs and lows would have slowed down the expectations. And would probably have helped him answering the bell in the playoffs. Yes, he had some good games in the playoffs. But in the end, you don't remember a goalie by his great game here and there, but how far he brings his team in the playoffs. I mean, no he doesn't have to win the cup all year. But at one point, he will have to bring up a little further than anticipated. Or at the very least, make this great and even better one. In the end, no matter how we look at it, he had 2 very good seasons based on save% 07-08 and 10-11. And 1 good playoffs based on Save% in 10-11....but in 1 round only. I know...got beaten by the Cup Champions. That's the end-result on stats though. Not a bad goalie. Just believed he needed a little more time to even be a more determinant goalie that he already is.
I agree with this, I found the Huet trade to be quite ridiculous tbh even if the net result was the same. Gainey believed in Price, I have np with that, it turns out he was right for the most part, but his handling of him early on may have been a little detrimental to his development, putting the weight of the CH on a goalie at his age was imo a terrible decision. Price's confidence was hurting in the beginning, partly due to his lack of playoff performances. Luckily Price's talent overcame some of the bone-headed decisions made with him.

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04-10-2013, 06:21 AM
  #235
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I keep saying it 'cause a top 5 pick has 2 things. Great number of expecations based on how high he is picked. And a great number of pressure based where he's playing. Thing is, at one moment you explain Price's "problems" based on how bad the team was and then praise him not mentioning how great the team was. The end-result with him is that when the going gets tough in the playoffs, he still, to this day, has no results to show for. And his biggest fail, of his young career, was to not be able to be THE guy to help us reaching the 3rd round. He does do good in regular seasons, does rack the stats. So he is good. But giving him 1 year of learning experience in the AHL with the highs and lows would have slowed down the expectations. And would probably have helped him answering the bell in the playoffs. Yes, he had some good games in the playoffs. But in the end, you don't remember a goalie by his great game here and there, but how far he brings his team in the playoffs. I mean, no he doesn't have to win the cup all year. But at one point, he will have to bring up a little further than anticipated. Or at the very least, make this great and even better one. In the end, no matter how we look at it, he had 2 very good seasons based on save% 07-08 and 10-11. And 1 good playoffs based on Save% in 10-11....but in 1 round only. I know...got beaten by the Cup Champions. That's the end-result on stats though. Not a bad goalie. Just believed he needed a little more time to even be a more determinant goalie that he already is.
So you're okay with his regular seasons it's the playoffs that have bothered you? He's been the starter for three playoff runs.

I agree he's had some mixed results but I don't think that's indicative of him being brought up too early. First playoff series he was great then in the 2nd round he wasn't.

His second season he never should've come back from the DL so early... his stats are black and white after returning from that injury - and the team sucked. I give him a mulligan there.

His last appearance against the Bruins was strong.

I also don't get the method by which you're measuring his performances... You say he wasn't good enough to win against the Bruins, but his save percentage was great. A save percentage of .934 is pretty ridiculous and you should expect to win with those kinds of numbers. Two of our losses came in overtime (one in double OT.)

I don't see how being brought up early has been detrimental to his development. You say he hasn't got us to a 3rd round, well okay that's true. But he's only starting his career. We finally have a good team surrounding him so I'm optimistic that we can go another round or two this year. I don't expect us to win a cup now but I think we can contend for the foreseeable future. I have worries about the team going forward but Price isn't really among them. No he's not Hasek and he never will be but he's solid. I know he's unproven in the playoffs but every goalie is unproven when they first start out. Rask is unproven for example, doesn't mean that he's not great to build with for the future.

As for him being drafted top five... who would you rather have had in the top ten? Bobby Ryan maybe? Jack Johnson? (Both drafted ahead of him.) In the first round we could've had Rask or Kopitar if we cherrypick and those guys would be close. You could probably cherrypick some guys in the later rounds like Letang but I'd say we did really well with taking Price. We could've been stuck with Brule, Poulliot, Lee...

Apart from Crosby I think Price will wind up having the best career out of the players taken in that draft. Kopitar, Letang, Rask and Quick might have something to say about this but my money is on Price.

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04-10-2013, 06:48 AM
  #236
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Gauthier would've never extended Bouillon or Desharnais mid-season.

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:36 AM
  #237
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Those saying that Gauthier changed his philosophy last season when the size thing. I'd have to disagree. When he traded Halak for Eller and Schultz he said he targeted these two players because both bring elements the habs lacked: size. Schultz in an interview said Gauthier told him that he acquired him because he has a skill-set Montreal lacked in their prospect pool which was physicality and aggressiveness. He re-acquired Mara at the deadline to bring in size and depth on the backend. Let's not forget the waiver pickup of Blair Betts (who was injured so couldn't play). There were plenty of instances to suggest that he didn't just change his philosophy last year. Cole, Eller, Schultz, Mara, attempt at Betts, Staubitz, Wisniewski (though not big is tough).

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:51 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
MONSIEUR Gauthier is a great ASSISTANT GM and scout.... No more than that.
Yes, his recommendation of Niiniimaa to Gainey was outstanding...amongst others

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04-10-2013, 11:19 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I agree with this, I found the Huet trade to be quite ridiculous tbh even if the net result was the same. Gainey believed in Price, I have np with that, it turns out he was right for the most part, but his handling of him early on may have been a little detrimental to his development, putting the weight of the CH on a goalie at his age was imo a terrible decision. Price's confidence was hurting in the beginning, partly due to his lack of playoff performances. Luckily Price's talent overcame some of the bone-headed decisions made with him.
yes, having a veteran presence (like Huet...) would have been perfect , just in case...but as I remember, Gainey had a deal for Hossa & Johan Hendberg (for something like Grabovski, Halak, Obyrne, and maybe a pick/prospect involved..) but Waddell went with Pittsburgh at the last minute.

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04-10-2013, 11:21 AM
  #240
Andy
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Originally Posted by Crystal Met View Post
yes, having a veteran presence (like Huet...) would have been perfect , just in case...but as I remember, Gainey had a deal for Hossa & Johan Hendberg (for something like Grabovski, Halak, Obyrne, and maybe a pick/prospect involved..) but Waddell went with Pittsburgh at the last minute.
The deal was Habs were gonna trade the second they acquired in the Huet trade along with Grabovski, Lapierre and Higgins for Hossa and Hedberg.

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