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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part III

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Old
04-09-2013, 03:59 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What serious problems have there been with UFA Signings? Gomez? Traded. Redden? Bought-out and did not hurt the team. Drury? Bought out at a negligible cap hit. Richards? He can be bought out. Gaborik? Traded for good young pieces. Voros? Traded for Eminger. Brashear? Buried and then traded.
Exactly...just horrible. I think you can leave Gaborik off this list, however. He did have some productive years.

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04-09-2013, 04:03 PM
  #77
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Mods taking a thread off topic again....


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04-09-2013, 04:07 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What serious problems have there been with UFA Signings? Gomez? Traded. Redden? Bought-out and did not hurt the team. Drury? Bought out at a negligible cap hit. Richards? He can be bought out. Gaborik? Traded for good young pieces. Voros? Traded for Eminger. Brashear? Buried and then traded.
Really, man?

Those underperforming veteran contracts took away roster spots from younger players and prolonged mediocrity. Yes, he got out of his mistakes, but those mistakes shouldn't have been made in the first place - yet he continues to make the same mistake, over and over and over again. The Gaborik contract was fine, because he was a contributing player for most of his tenure. I'm OK with the Gomez one because it ended up getting us McDonagh, even if Sather completely and utterly lucked into that trade.

Otherwise, it's unacceptable and inexcusable to make those mistakes continually. He shouldn't have to waste his time with those liabilities in the first place.

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04-09-2013, 04:09 PM
  #79
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Mods taking a thread off topic again....

THAT'S IT, this thread is going back to Sather and Torts.

This is now the managerial complaint thread.

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04-09-2013, 04:09 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What serious problems have there been with UFA Signings? Gomez? Traded. Redden? Bought-out and did not hurt the team. Drury? Bought out at a negligible cap hit. Richards? He can be bought out. Gaborik? Traded for good young pieces. Voros? Traded for Eminger. Brashear? Buried and then traded.
i feel queezy....

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04-09-2013, 04:12 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
THAT'S IT, this thread is going back to Sather and Torts.
haha, now I can see why it was before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
This is now the managerial complaint thread.
About time we had one.

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04-09-2013, 04:12 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What serious problems have there been with UFA Signings? Gomez? Traded. Redden? Bought-out and did not hurt the team. Drury? Bought out at a negligible cap hit. Richards? He can be bought out. Gaborik? Traded for good young pieces. Voros? Traded for Eminger. Brashear? Buried and then traded.
You ! To the box ! Feel shame !

(contemplates accessing a 5 minute major.....)

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04-09-2013, 04:14 PM
  #83
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He also left out Sather's genius free agent signing of Bobby Holik...$9 million per year for five years, at 32 years old. You just can't make this stuff up.

Even in a pre-cap world this was insanely bad talent evaluation, and a waste of resources that could have been used for so much more.

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04-09-2013, 04:18 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
He also left out Sather's genius free agent signing of Bobby Holik...$9 million per year for five years, at 32 years old. You just can't make this stuff up.

Even in a pre-cap world this was insanely bad talent evaluation, and a waste of resources that could have been used for so much more.
Absolutely the points that should be hammered into the fans who feel that signing players is 'just throwing around money'. Who cares right, you can 'easily' trade or send them to the minors with no residual effects in regards to the future.

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04-09-2013, 04:45 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i feel queezy....
Don't worry, rmember the past successes, like Bobby Holik for 9 million per, and you'll feel splendid

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04-09-2013, 04:47 PM
  #86
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It doesn't takes long before the pre - 04' lockout corpses get exhumed on this board.

Lots of revisionist history from armchair fantasy GMs.

Pull back the curtain, and the bitter tank it cultists are hudled together chanting and burning pictures of Sather.

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04-09-2013, 04:50 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What serious problems have there been with UFA Signings? Gomez? Traded. Redden? Bought-out and did not hurt the team. Drury? Bought out at a negligible cap hit. Richards? He can be bought out. Gaborik? Traded for good young pieces. Voros? Traded for Eminger. Brashear? Buried and then traded.
I would hardly say those two moves were harmless... Redden and Drury's buyouts cost the team over $7 million in cap space this year. What could this team have looked like with $7+ million more in cap space?

I saw people on here marveling at how Pittsburgh was able to take on guys like Iginla, Morrow, Murray, etc at the deadline in addition to Crosby, Malkin, MAF contracts... Some of that is their misunderstanding of how these players' remaining cap hit for the year is calculated -- but it is also because they are looking at the Rangers roster and seriously confused about how it looked so thin by comparison. Those two buyouts are a big part of the reason.

Just imagine what this team could have looked like with an additional $7 million in cap space. Perhaps we don't lose as many FAs as we did? If we do, maybe a better bottom 6 replacement to start the season? Another top 6 forward? A legit 3C to start the season? A solid 6th dman? Not saying I would want any/all of these players, but just for some food for thought of the types of players $7 mil could have brought:

- Alex Semin signed a 1 year contract for $7 million.
- Olli Jokinen signed a 2 year $4.5 mil per year contract.
- Jiri Hudler signed a 4 year $4 mil per.
- Saku Koivu, 1 year, $3 mil per
- Paul Gaustad, 4 years, $3.25 mil per
- Chris Kelly, 4 years, $3 mil per
- Jay McClement, 2 years, $1.5 mil per
- Brandon Prust, 4 years, $2.5 mil per
- Dustin Penner, 1 year, $3.25 mil.
- Ruslan Fedotenko, 1 year, $1.75 mil
- PA Parenteau, 4 years, $4 mil per
- Brad Boyes, 1 year, $1 mil
- Brad Stuart, 3 years, $3.5 mil per
- Willie Mitchel, 2 years, $3.5 mil per
- Francois Beauchemin, 3 years, $3.5 mil per
- Johnny Oduya, 3 years, $3.4 mil per
- Sheldon Souray, 3 years, $3.6 mil per

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04-09-2013, 06:02 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Id venture to guess that over 50% of this board feels the same way, with next to no lucid and comprehensive evidence as to why.
Well after the first thread the poll was about 50/50 with a lot of late anti-Torts votes after the rough patch. I'd say post-trade deadline it's probably back to 70/30 in favor of Torts.

Torts could bring a Cup to NY, just not with the squad they are icing at the moment. I think next year they have a good chance at a bounce back year putting them right back in the Cup race, if a few things pan out over the off-season/training camp.

Personally I don't hate Torts, I just find some of his decisions questionable and wonder what motivates them sometimes.

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04-09-2013, 06:04 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
- Alex Semin signed a 1 year contract for $7 million.
- Olli Jokinen signed a 2 year $4.5 mil per year contract.
- Jiri Hudler signed a 4 year $4 mil per.
- Saku Koivu, 1 year, $3 mil per
- Paul Gaustad, 4 years, $3.25 mil per
- Chris Kelly, 4 years, $3 mil per
- Jay McClement, 2 years, $1.5 mil per
- Brandon Prust, 4 years, $2.5 mil per
- Dustin Penner, 1 year, $3.25 mil.
- Ruslan Fedotenko, 1 year, $1.75 mil
- PA Parenteau, 4 years, $4 mil per
- Brad Boyes, 1 year, $1 mil
- Brad Stuart, 3 years, $3.5 mil per
- Willie Mitchel, 2 years, $3.5 mil per
- Francois Beauchemin, 3 years, $3.5 mil per
- Johnny Oduya, 3 years, $3.4 mil per
- Sheldon Souray, 3 years, $3.6 mil per
A lot of list either (a) did not make it to UFA or (b) is undesirable.

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04-09-2013, 06:10 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What serious problems have there been with UFA Signings? Gomez? Traded. Redden? Bought-out and did not hurt the team. Drury? Bought out at a negligible cap hit. Richards? He can be bought out. Gaborik? Traded for good young pieces. Voros? Traded for Eminger. Brashear? Buried and then traded.
Just because you have a way to correct mistakes doesn't mean you should haphazardly perform your work.

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04-09-2013, 06:14 PM
  #91
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i mean yeah im sure he doesn't say not to go to the net, but he should be telling them TO go to net, don't you think? having all 3 guys below the goal line, what kind of strategy is that?
One we've seen too many times this year for it to be some kind of anomaly. Also, from skilled players who probably wouldn't do that on their own volition.

I don't know what he is or isn't telling him, but 3 players below the goal line is useless.

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04-09-2013, 06:36 PM
  #92
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A lot of list either (a) did not make it to UFA or (b) is undesirable.
Sure - agreed. The list was for illustrating the point. But to actually give details:

- Yea, undesirables on that list would be: Jokinen, Kelly(?), and maybe McClement and Boyes.

- Guys who didn't make it to FA: Mitchell, Beauchemin, Oduya, Koivu, Gaustad, Penner (arguably the best UFAs on that list).


But I would have seriously considered some combination of the rest.

Semin, Hudler, Prust, Feds, or Parenteau would have strengthened our forward depth significantly. Stuart and Souray are very solid, bruising defensemen - something missing right now on our back end. If we're worried about the term length/cap considerations on any of the longer contracts in that mix, most of those are players who are easily movable at the draft for picks - putting the team exactly where it is now, but with some extra picks.

Either way, the point was that the buyouts severely limited what options the team had for this year.

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04-09-2013, 06:42 PM
  #93
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SEither way, the point was that the buyouts severely limited what options the team had for this year.
But a lot of them are not really options for this year, because they wouldn't work in future years. I'd be pissed if we had to find cap space for Jiri Hudler's $4M or Sheldon Souray's $3.5M under next year's cap.

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04-09-2013, 06:44 PM
  #94
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But a lot of them are not really options for this year, because they wouldn't work in future years. I'd be pissed if we had to find cap space for Jiri Hudler's $4M or Sheldon Souray's $3.5M under next year's cap.
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
If we're worried about the term length/cap considerations on any of the longer contracts in that mix, most of those are players who are easily movable at the draft for picks - putting the team exactly where it is now, but with some extra picks.
I don't see any of those players being tough to move for scraps to teams looking to fill holes next year. That would strengthen the team in the short term, and get some extra picks/shtty prospects at the draft. But I'm also not a GM, so who knows.

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04-09-2013, 06:48 PM
  #95
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But I'm also not a GM
You're out of place then. This forum is for NHL GMs only.

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04-09-2013, 06:49 PM
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You're out of place then. This forum is for NHL GMs only.


You tell him man.

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04-09-2013, 06:54 PM
  #97
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You're out of place then. This forum is for NHL GMs only.
Well, ****. Guess Bern and I missed that regulation on registration.

Touche.

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04-09-2013, 07:25 PM
  #98
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You're out of place then. This forum is for NHL GMs only.
If only. Imagine how much we could learn from NHL GMs, with all of them consistently performing their jobs well and proving time and again that they understand how to manage budgets, evaluate talent, and construct perfectly nuanced rosters.

Oh, to pick the brain of Glen Sather, what with the uninterrupted streak of overwhelming success he has displayed over the last 20 (!) years running the Oilers and Rangers, proving that his early career success was more than just his owner purchasing, and not Glen Sather drafting and developing, the greatest player to ever play the game. The endless list of superstars drafted and developed over the last two decades, not to mention the championship banners accumulated . . .

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04-09-2013, 07:41 PM
  #99
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If only. Imagine how much we could learn from NHL GMs, with all of them consistently performing their jobs well and proving time and again that they understand how to manage budgets, evaluate talent, and construct perfectly nuanced rosters.

Oh, to pick the brain of Glen Sather, what with the uninterrupted streak of overwhelming success he has displayed over the last 20 (!) years running the Oilers and Rangers, proving that his early career success was more than just his owner purchasing, and not Glen Sather drafting and developing, the greatest player to ever play the game. The endless list of superstars drafted and developed over the last two decades, not to mention the championship banners accumulated . . .
Personally, I cant wait for "Legends of Hockey: Glen Sather" remastered

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04-09-2013, 07:41 PM
  #100
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If only. Imagine how much we could learn from NHL GMs, with all of them consistently performing their jobs well and proving time and again that they understand how to manage budgets, evaluate talent, and construct perfectly nuanced rosters.

Oh, to pick the brain of Glen Sather, what with the uninterrupted streak of overwhelming success he has displayed over the last 20 (!) years running the Oilers and Rangers, proving that his early career success was more than just his owner purchasing, and not Glen Sather drafting and developing, the greatest player to ever play the game. The endless list of superstars drafted and developed over the last two decades, not to mention the championship banners accumulated . . .
Tell us how you really feel about Glen Sather...


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