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2013 Ducks toughness thread (with updates)

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04-09-2013, 05:25 AM
  #501
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Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
They should sit Dvorak for the next game, call up Kurtz.

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04-09-2013, 09:54 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Papaspud View Post
Only listed Western Conf. Players in my list, but you just seem bent on playing the goof on this one. Good for you. Oh well. it's your choice.
Your list was a response to Dirk's list of players which was a response to me claiming there aren't fighters that we play against that are worth a damn.

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04-09-2013, 10:04 AM
  #503
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Was Bobby Ryan ok? I noticed he got hit with the puck and looked shakey, I also noticed he left? Did he return is he alright? He's a tough bird!

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04-09-2013, 10:12 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
They should sit Dvorak for the next game, call up Kurtz.
somebody's looking for attention? In the playoffs or against big teams Dvorak will be a liabilityy compared to Maroon or even Staubitz

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04-09-2013, 11:35 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
somebody's looking for attention? In the playoffs or against big teams Dvorak will be a liabilityy compared to Maroon or even Staubitz
I love that you used the word liability, or tried to at least, in comparison to Staubitz. That's the biggest reason he doesn't play most nights and why he won't play in the playoffs, he's a defensive liability. Maroon is good in the corners and uses his stick well but back checking is an issue. If Norfolk is out I can see Maroon playing some nights but not in favor of Dvorak who has proved to be solid in the five games he's been here.

You know we get pretty acrimonious on this issue and we'll never change each other's mind, which is fine. At the end of the day we both root for the same team and want them to win every night. But why the love for Staubitz? He clearly sucks. I mean just because he plays the style of hockey you like doesn't mean he's good at it. I wish he was at least a good fighter but he sucks at that too. Maroon has a lot of potential to be the kind of player we both can enjoy but Staubitz is a joke.

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04-09-2013, 12:42 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
somebody's looking for attention? In the playoffs or against big teams Dvorak will be a liabilityy compared to Maroon or even Staubitz
3 goals in last 5 games. Depth scoring. Liability. You make it very hard to take you seriously. You keep saying we need more toughness in our lineup. We haven't done so. Not the toughness you want. If it was such a big x-factor, wouldn't more teams exploit our softness and have that result in more losses? Cause the way I see it, this soft team is on its way to entering the playoffs as the second seed and Pacific division winners for the second time in franchise history.

This isn't 2007 anymore. Your interpretation of the game isn't completely wrong, but the way you act like it's the only way to win, your opinions are outdated.

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04-09-2013, 12:43 PM
  #507
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Dvorak and Lombardi are typical Murray acquisitions. Just soft and useless in the playoffs. He could have gotten a gritty player like Rafi Torres, but instead he lets him go to a rival (SJ)

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04-09-2013, 12:45 PM
  #508
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I think I would've puked if we got Torres.

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04-09-2013, 12:47 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
I think I would've puked if we got Torres.
This just shows how against toughness you are. I'd rather have Torres on my team then on a team we may have to play in the playoffs. He is a very good bottom 6 player and way better then Lombardi and Dvorak have ever been

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04-09-2013, 12:57 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Dvorak and Lombardi are typical Murray acquisitions. Just soft and useless in the playoffs. He could have gotten a gritty player like Rafi Torres, but instead he lets him go to a rival (SJ)
Now Lombardi is a player I will admit is soft. He's been completely ineffective since he's been here. I don't know if he's too afraid to go into the middle of the ice or fight for a loose puck but he's just not doing it. I can't wait for Bonino to get healthy.

Dvorak though has been really solid. He goes into the corners, digs out loose pucks, cycles, goes to the net. What's wrong with any of that? Oh yeah, he's not crushing a guy every shift. Because that's what he needs to do. He needs to get the puck and create offense and he did that constantly last night. He's a +3 in 5 games since coming here. I don't know you get it into your head that the playoffs and suddenly they're playing a different game. Yes it's more intense but it's still hockey. Dvorak also has two Cup runs under his belt so I think he knows what's in store. The dude single-handily provided enough offense to win last night and he still gets crap.

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04-09-2013, 12:58 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
somebody's looking for attention? In the playoffs or against big teams Dvorak will be a liabilityy compared to Maroon or even Staubitz
I'm guessing you and Angelduck live in some illusion where every Euro is soft and one dimensional. Well guess what, Dvorak is not a scorer. He's had a pretty darn long NHL career as a checking/defensive winger. He's not as physical as either Maroon and Staubitz, but he's better defensively than both.

And I agree that the Ducks lack physical depth forwards, but right now there's not much to do about it as the deadline has passed. Staubitz isn't going to be the differance between a first round exit and a cup triumph. You'll just have to live with this lineup for the rest of this season. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Either way, some really good playoff performers are both small and soft.

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04-09-2013, 01:05 PM
  #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
This just shows how against toughness you are. I'd rather have Torres on my team then on a team we may have to play in the playoffs. He is a very good bottom 6 player and way better then Lombardi and Dvorak have ever been
no...just no

torres .4 pts .65 hits .11 blocks .78 pm
lombardy .49 pts . 27 hits .14 blocks .55 pm
dvorak .48 pts .13 hits .12 blocks . 34 pm

they are almost the same.

torres hits more and takes more penalties

dvorak and lombardy score more and take less penalties.

you are again sacrificing offense for a few more hits and [B]more penalties[B]

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04-09-2013, 01:07 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post

And I agree that the Ducks lack physical depth forwards, but right now there's not much to do about it as the deadline has passed. Staubitz isn't going to be the differance between a first round exit and a cup triumph. You'll just have to live with this lineup for the rest of this season. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Either way, some really good playoff performers are both small and soft.
That's the thing though is we're not soft, we just don't play a punishing style of play and there is a difference. The immediate goal on every single fore check and back check is to get the puck and get it in the hands of an attacking player. We do that excellently. We use the body to do it too. But we also pass the puck well and posses it for extended periods of time. What other people perceive as soft is just us having the puck. We outshot the Oilers at one point 20-0 and we didn't have to pound them into the ground to do it. Hell even their tough players couldn't do that to us. I hardly noticed Mike Brown or Jerrod Smithson at all last night. Hell even the night before when we were supposed to get run over by the Kings and it didn't happen. I really don't know why these particular group of fans think we're so soft because we're not.

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04-09-2013, 01:10 PM
  #514
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If the game last night showed anything, it should show that Anaheim is not soft. I think they're about average in the toughness category. Not particularly tough, and not particularly soft. An example of a soft team is Edmonton.

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04-09-2013, 01:36 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
If the game last night showed anything, it should show that Anaheim is not soft. I think they're about average in the toughness category. Not particularly tough, and not particularly soft. An example of a soft team is Edmonton.
Edmonton with the exception of Brown is the softest team in the NHL
The current Ducks are basically the broad Street bullies compared to them.

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04-09-2013, 01:45 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
Edmonton with the exception of Brown is the softest team in the NHL
The current Ducks are basically the broad Street bullies compared to them.
That's kind of the point. Anaheim may not be an overly tough team, but they aren't a soft one either. It just isn't their strength. Their strength is skill, speed, and depth.

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04-09-2013, 02:29 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
Edmonton with the exception of Brown is the softest team in the NHL
The current Ducks are basically the broad Street bullies compared to them.
Even though I love throwing gasoline on this thread I'm genuinely curious: what makes the Ducks so soft specifically? What is it that they're doing that clearly makes them soft and how does it effect them winning games?

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04-09-2013, 02:33 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
If the game last night showed anything, it should show that Anaheim is not soft. I think they're about average in the toughness category. Not particularly tough, and not particularly soft. An example of a soft team is Edmonton.
Agreed.

But a little more toughness would be apreciated

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04-09-2013, 05:45 PM
  #519
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I am one of those in the "middle of the pack" that would really like some more grit and "sandpaper" in the team (but hockey players, please, no "fighting only"). But, where to get it?

I doubt that any on this board would not love to get Thornton from the Bruins, but how many guys like him are out there? How many 1/2 Thorntons are out there?

I love Dvorak and his style of play but I seriously doubt he will have enough energy to keep this level up, Lombardi is an disappointment, never even saw his trade mark speed (Cogliano is showing it in every game!)...

I really liked Maroon when he was up, even though everyone mentioned his slow speed etc., he played great and we got more than one scoring chance/keeping the puck in the offensive zone because of him...

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04-09-2013, 06:39 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
This just shows how against toughness you are. I'd rather have Torres on my team then on a team we may have to play in the playoffs. He is a very good bottom 6 player and way better then Lombardi and Dvorak have ever been
Well you're wrong. I just hate Torres. I loved guys like Parros, Konopka, Thornton, etc. I just like the physical and tough players who can also actually play the game. If a guy's only role is to give the other team a rough ride at the expense of puck possession and area control, I'd rather not have that particular tough guy. I'm pro hockey talent. Toughness should come as an added benefit. Or it can be the dominant feature, as long as the player in question can actually do something. Stop jumping to assumptions.

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04-09-2013, 06:47 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Well you're wrong. I just hate Torres. I loved guys like Parros, Konopka, Thornton, etc. I just like the physical and tough players who can also actually play the game. If a guy's only role is to give the other team a rough ride at the expense of puck possession and area control, I'd rather not have that particular tough guy. I'm pro hockey talent. Toughness should come as an added benefit. Or it can be the dominant feature, as long as the player in question can actually do something. Stop jumping to assumptions.
If you like tough players who can play hockey, then you would like Torres. He is 50 times better at hockey then Parros. Wtf are you even saying?

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04-09-2013, 07:08 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
If you like tough players who can play hockey, then you would like Torres. He is 50 times better at hockey then Parros. Wtf are you even saying?
Point out to me where I compared the two. I gave you examples of tough guys I've liked. I didn't like Parros as a hockey player. He's the exception.

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04-09-2013, 07:08 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
He is a very good bottom 6 player and way better then Lombardi and Dvorak have ever been.
Lombardi has played for team Canada in the World Championship twice, and lead the team in scoring once. Dvorak has scored 31 goals and 67 points in the NHL at one point. You think the current Torres is WAY BETTER? Okay. I guess Torres in his prime > Gretzky.

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04-09-2013, 07:19 PM
  #524
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Point out to me where I compared the two. I gave you examples of tough guys I've liked. I didn't like Parros as a hockey player. He's the exception.
Ok so you have no point? You just hate Torres?

Torres is a very good bottom sixer with toughness. He would fit in perfectly on a line with Beleskey. Murray screwed the pooch by getting Lombardi instead of him. We'll see if we get exposed in the playoffs...

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04-09-2013, 07:21 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
Lombardi has played for team Canada in the World Championship twice, and lead the team in scoring once. Dvorak has scored 31 goals and 67 points in the NHL at one point. You think the current Torres is WAY BETTER? Okay. I guess Torres in his prime > Gretzky.
I think Torres can help the team more from a physical standpoint...yes. What's so hard to understand about Lombardi and Dvorak being soft players that will not help in the playoffs? Look at Brad May...he was a great addition for the 4th line...I think Torres could be something similar to him.

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