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NYR Top 10 Centers of All-Time (Preliminary Top 20 List Due!)

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04-09-2013, 07:22 PM
  #1
Crease
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NYR Top 10 Centers of All-Time (Preliminary Top 20 List Due!)

  1. Eligibility
    • Players who played 75% of Regular Season games over a minimum of 4 seasons for the Rangers AND whose primary position was Center during their tenure as a Ranger
    • Players will be judged only on their accomplishments as hockey players
    • A player's accomplishments at his secondary position may be taken into account; it is up to the list maker to determine how to evaluate such players
  2. Preliminary Discussion Thread
    • Anyone may participate in this thread (yes you!), even if he or she does not plan on taking part in the voting phase
    • Any eligible center may be discussed
    • Posters are encouraged to share information about centers in this thread and to take information shared into account when constructing their own lists
    • Brief comparisons between players are permitted, but detailed cases and debates should be saved for Round 2 of Voting.
    • Please do NOT rank players outright in this thread.
  3. Voting
    1. Round 1
      • All participants submit a list of 20 centers ranked in order
      • All eras MUST be considered
      • To make it easier to aggregate the submitted lists, please list players using their most commonly used name; e.g. Mark Messier, not Moose
      • Lists may be submitted via email or via PM to me. Excel format preferred, but not required.
      • Deadline for list submission is May 9; this thread will remain open until the deadline
      • Players will be assigned a point value on the list based on ranking
      • Players will be awarded 20 points for a 1st place vote down to 1 point for a 20th place vote
      • An aggregate list of the top 20 centers will be compiled ranking them in order of the most total points
      • Participants MUST submit a list in Round 1 to be eligible for Round 2
    2. Round 2
      • The top 10 ranked players from the aggregate list will be posted in a thread
      • Players will be listed in alphabetical order to avoid creating bias
      • Player merits and rankings will be open for discussion and debate for a period of five (5) days. Administrators may extend the discussion period if it remains active.
      • Final voting will occur for two (2) days, by email.
      • Top 5 players will be added to the NYR Top 10 Centers of All-Time list
      • Results will be posted and the process repeated for the next 5 places with remaining players until a list of 10 centers is obtained
  4. Quality Assurance
    • Lists may be subject to an evaluation process
    • The submitter of a questionable list will be given an opportunity to defend or justify any selection under question or to correct errors and resubmit.

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Old
04-09-2013, 07:23 PM
  #2
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Eligible Players
Artem Anisimov
Blair Betts
Brian Boyle
Frank Boucher
Dave Creighton
Neil Colville
Ab DeMarco
Chris Drury
Brandon Dubinsky
Ron Duguay
Phil Esposito
Wayne Gretzky*
Phil Goyette
Camille Henry
Earl Ingarfield
Kelly Kisio
Edgar Laprade
Eric Lindros*
Mark Messier
Petr Nedved
Sergei Nemchinov
Bernie Nicholls**
Ulf Nilsson*
Buddy O'Connor
Mark Pavelich
Larry Popein
Don Raleigh
Jean Ratelle
Mike Rodgers
Paul Ronty
Pete Stemkowski
Clint Smith
Red Sullivan
Walt Tkaczuk
Darren Turcotte
Phil Watson

*3 Seasons
**2 Seasons


Last edited by Crease: 04-16-2013 at 08:59 AM.
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Old
04-09-2013, 07:30 PM
  #3
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To get a sense of how the Preliminary Discussion Thread is supposed to go, here is the link to the HOH Top 60 Defensemen of All-Time Preliminary Discussion Thread.

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04-09-2013, 07:36 PM
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This should be fun. It'll give me an opportunity to pick my dad's brain, he knows like every guy since the 60's. I just have to be careful when going back to the O6 days not to mention someone he doesn't like, especially from Boston, then it'll be 2 hours of "I remember one time that *******...."

Also, I just wanna say, without making a detailed case as per the rules, that I hope Espo gets better treatment than he usually does by the main boards and some Rangers fans. For a guy in his late 30's he was more than servicable here.

And it's a shame that Gretzky missed eligibility by one year.

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Old
04-09-2013, 07:38 PM
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in our 86 year history we only have about 30 eligible centers and 2 of them are blair betts and brian boyle?

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Old
04-09-2013, 07:48 PM
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To get the ball rolling, here are some notable resumes as Rangers:

Frank Boucher
Seasons: 13
Top 10 Goal Finishes: 2x
Top 10 Assist Finishes: 9x
Top 10 Point Finishes: 8x
1st Team All-Star: 3x
2nd Team All-Star: 1x
Stanley Cups: 2x
Lady Byng: 7x
RS Points: 413 (4th among Centers)
RS PPG: 0.77

Mark Messier
Seasons:10
Top 10 Goal Finishes: 1x
Top 10 Assist Finishes: 2x
Top 10 Point Finishes: 2x
1st Team All-Star: 1x
Stanley Cups: 1x
Harts: 1x
Lindsay: 1x
RS Points: 691 (2nd among Centers)
RS PPG: 0.99

Jean Ratelle
Seasons: 15.5
Top 10 Goal Finishes: 3x
Top 10 Assist Finishes: 4x
Top 10 Point Finishes: 6x
2nd Team All-Star: 1x
Lindsay: 1x
Masterton: 1x
Lady Byng: 2x
RS Points: 817 (1st among Centers)
RS PPG: 0.95

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04-09-2013, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
in our 86 year history we only have about 30 eligible centers and 2 of them are blair betts and brian boyle?
Fortunately for all of us we're only doing a top 10 list.

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Old
04-09-2013, 07:52 PM
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I don't know what to even do with Boucher. He centered Bill Cook who I would argue is the greatest goal scorer we ever had. I really don't know if it helps or hurts Boucher's case that his winger scored all those goals.

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04-09-2013, 07:55 PM
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I think an exception should be made for Gretzky, as he was a big part of one of the more notable seasons in the franchise history, and played very well for his entire tenure here. But that's just my opinion.

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04-09-2013, 07:55 PM
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Some more about Frank Boucher from Greatest Hockey Legends website:

One of the old-timers that did really respect Boucher's skills was legendary broadcaster Foster Hewitt. While broadcasting the 1972 Summit Series in 1972, the highly skilled Soviets reminded Hewitt of Boucher.

Quote:
"There aren't many people around to remember, but the way the Russians play reminds me of the old Rangers, especially the line of Boucher and the Cooks. They were even better than the Russians. When Frank, Bill and Bunny were on the ice, it always seemed to me they had the puck on the string."
http://nyrangerslegends.blogspot.com...k-boucher.html

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04-09-2013, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I think an exception should be made for Gretzky, as he was a big part of one of the more notable seasons in the franchise history, and played very well for his entire tenure here. But that's just my opinion.
I second that opinion.

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04-09-2013, 07:57 PM
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Cool. Are we doing this for every position? And I'll have my list PMd to you within a week.

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04-09-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I think an exception should be made for Gretzky, as he was a big part of one of the more notable seasons in the franchise history, and played very well for his entire tenure here. But that's just my opinion.
i agree. the greatest player of all time still gave us great seasons and led us to a conference final in his 1st year. he deserves to be on a list of greatest NYR C if betts and boyle see the list.

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04-09-2013, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I think an exception should be made for Gretzky, as he was a big part of one of the more notable seasons in the franchise history, and played very well for his entire tenure here. But that's just my opinion.
I'm not against adding him. He's really the only notable that gets slighted by the 4 Season 75% GP cut-off. I don't currently have him in my top 10 but if the consensus feels he's "missing" then I'll be happy to add him.

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04-09-2013, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker McDonald View Post
Cool. Are we doing this for every position? And I'll have my list PMd to you within a week.
I plan on doing this for all positions. Once we're done with Centers, we'll move on to one of the Wings. FYI, the list of 20 isn't due until May 9. So take your time with your research.

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04-09-2013, 08:00 PM
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Gretzky added. If anyone has a case for anyone else who is missing, feel free to speak up.

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04-09-2013, 08:00 PM
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That list is so sad that I think you have to make an exception for Gretzky. He makes it a little less pathetic.

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04-09-2013, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
That list is so sad that I think you have to make an exception for Gretzky. He makes it a little less pathetic.
when i first saw it i really thought we were leaving out a bunch of great names by accident or had some stupid cut off rule that limited it to those 30 or so names. its stunning that our best 30 centers has 2 options that are 4th liners in a 30 team NHL.

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04-09-2013, 08:08 PM
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The greatest player of all time should be on this list. It's a bragging right personally that he came here to play, and also that he came to us and led us to the ECF in his first season. The guy was a special player.

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04-09-2013, 08:10 PM
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What can someone tell me about Buddy O'Connor. I swear before today I've never heard his name. He had that GREAT season in 1947/48. Him and Messier are the only two Centers to win the Hart Trophy as a Ranger.

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04-09-2013, 08:21 PM
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Major Awards won as Rangers:

Hart
O'Connor
Messier

Lady Byng
Boucher (7x)
Smith
Laprade
Henry
Ratelle
Gretzky

Calder
Laprade

Masterton
Ratelle

Ted Lindsay
Ratelle
Messier

The Rocket was first awarded in the late 80s. Anyone on our list lead the NHL in goals prior to then?


Last edited by Crease: 04-09-2013 at 08:46 PM.
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04-09-2013, 08:38 PM
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I'm posting this for reference purposes. This is a table of centers with the most .75 PPG seasons as a Ranger

Player .75 PPG Seasons
Jean Ratelle 11
Frank Boucher 7
Mark Messier 7
Walt Tkaczuk 6
Phil Esposito 5
Neil Colville 4
Phil Goyette 4
Camille Henry 4
Kelly Kisio 4
Mark Pavelich 4
Mike Rogers 4
Phil Watson 4
Ab DeMarco 3
Wayne Gretzky 3
Pierre Larouche 3
Petr Nedved 3
Ulf Nilsson 3
Pete Stemkowski 3
Ron Duguay 2
Scott Gomez 2
Eric Lindros 2
Bernie Nicholls 2
Michael Nylander 2
Buddy O'Connor 2
Walt Poddubny 2
Vinny Prospal 2
Mike Ridley 2
Clint Smith 2

Bunch of others with 1.

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04-09-2013, 08:55 PM
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That list is a joke

Yeah, I'd like to get in on this.

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04-09-2013, 08:58 PM
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So Boucher, Messier, Esposito and Ratelle look like the only true locks right now

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04-09-2013, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
What can someone tell me about Buddy O'Connor. I swear before today I've never heard his name. He had that GREAT season in 1947/48. Him and Messier are the only two Centers to win the Hart Trophy as a Ranger.
I'm having a hard time with Buddy. His 47-48 season was obviously awesome, but in his other 3 seasons he didn't hit 40pts (although likely would have in 48-49). During his years as a Ranger he was 15th for scoring by centres across the league yet both Laprade and Raleigh were above him on the same team. His ppg is better than both those guys and his playoff ppg is equal to Raleigh's and a littleless than Laprade (all played 18 playoff games). If anyone has some info on how he was viewed by the league and how important he was to the team I'd love to read it.

In the same vein, does anyone have info on Goyette? Good ppg, but his playoff ppg is horrible (0.23). He finished top 10 in assists across the league 4 seasons in a row. Who was he setting up?


Last edited by mike14: 04-09-2013 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Stupid phone
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