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Old
04-09-2013, 09:22 PM
  #101
SA16
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Girardi suffers from the Boyle treatment of being put in positions that he doesn't belong in - notably the powerplay

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04-09-2013, 09:25 PM
  #102
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I fail to see how Girardi is overrated. The guy is a warrior and just because he's been bad this season it doesn't mean we should crap on him. If anything prior to this season he's been underrated.

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04-09-2013, 09:32 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
I fail to see how Girardi is overrated. The guy is a warrior and just because he's been bad this season it doesn't mean we should crap on him. If anything prior to this season he's been underrated.
He was 6th in Norris voting last year. That's laughable.

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Old
04-09-2013, 09:34 PM
  #104
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Gman is one of my favorites and always has been; he isn't being used right on the PP. Take him off...save his minutes for when we need the big shot blocker big man...

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04-09-2013, 09:39 PM
  #105
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He was 6th in Norris voting last year. That's laughable.

He was fantastic last season. Deserved to be 6th? Probably not but he had a fantastic season.

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04-09-2013, 09:42 PM
  #106
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He was fantastic last season. Deserved to be 6th? Probably not but he had a fantastic season.
He definitely had a good season last year, held the fort down until Staal returned. He had a bad playoffs defensively though, and had he not started getting the puck on net more in the playoffs, people would have been calling for his head.

I think that his value is the highest it's ever been, or ever will be right now. GM's always look for RD.

I'm not saying that he would be the first I'd want to move. I'm saying that I would be open to it.

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04-09-2013, 09:54 PM
  #107
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Personally, I would deal Del Zotto if it came to it. And no, not just because of Monday's game.

I think he has some major issues between the ears, which are not all that easy to fix. Making good decisions, consistency of performance, and maintaining confidence.

If I were building a team every dman in the top-4 (at least) would be, at bare minimum, rock solid in their own zone, consistently. That's #1. #2 is being able to effectively move the puck up the ice; not talking far blue line stretch passes, just execute a breakout and competently distribute the puck in the offensive zone.

Del Zotto to me is great (most of the time) at #2, often far exceeding what I look for, making stretch passes and jumping into the play. It's priority #1 that can at times be an issue. Factor in that for an offensive defenseman he has no shot to speak of, with serious accuracy issues even on point-blank wristers, and the decision is more clear.

I would prefer to keep all 4 dmen. But if I had to pick one to trade it would be Del Zotto. In addition to the above due to his age + stats he would probably have the 3rd highest trade value of Ranger blueliners. Only reason I would consider moving Girardi over him was if the medical staff was worried about Girardi being too banged up long term.

Just my 2 cents. Realize this will likely not be a popular opinion.

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Old
04-09-2013, 09:55 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I think it is pretty obvious that Girardi is the player that is least valuable among our top 4 blueliners, and I'd prefer to move him over any of them. He has been this team's most overrated player for a few years now. He's terrible offensively, and his minute eating leads to an overexaggeration of his effectiveness as a defender. He's a good player; he just isn't the all-star/Norris-caliber player some have made him out to be.

Unfortunately, the left/right business makes it tricky. I have a lot of faith in McDonagh, and I could see him adapting to the right side and being just as effective.

Regardless, I'd deal Girardi or Del Zotto over McDonagh or Staal. I just think the latter two are clearly the better players. Staal is one of the best big, tall defensemen in the game today, and those are a rarity.
In terms of value it probably goes McDonagh, Staal, Del Zotto, Girardi, Moore, Stralman. The position of the defenders does make it tricky though. It's like starting a season where your wings in terms of value are Nash (RW) Gaborik (RW) Callahan (RW) Hagelin (LW) Kreider (LW) Pyatt (LW). What winds up happening is Gaborik, Nash and Callahan all get time on the left because there really isn't a top liner quality left wing and playing out of position doesn't really work it only complicates the situation. Fact is it's probably cost us at least a few points in the standings.

Girardi is not a guy I would even think of moving at this point in time. I don't think it's a good idea to experiment with players playing out of position especially on our d. Again if we're moving a defenseman it's either Staal or Del Zotto both of whom would or should get us a better return than Girardi would anyway. What player you can get back also factors into this.

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Old
04-09-2013, 09:57 PM
  #109
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only way i trade one of our d is if we get hall, eberle, bobby ryan, e. kane, skiner type coming back.. other then that forget about it!

Girardi wont be moved at all.. unless offer is ridiculous.. Rhd top 4 are so hard to come by and arguably the hardest position to fill bc noone are every available/out there.. its like finding number 1c..

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Old
04-09-2013, 10:09 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I think it is pretty obvious that Girardi is the player that is least valuable among our top 4 blueliners, and I'd prefer to move him over any of them. He has been this team's most overrated player for a few years now. He's terrible offensively, and his minute eating leads to an overexaggeration of his effectiveness as a defender. He's a good player; he just isn't the all-star/Norris-caliber player some have made him out to be.

Unfortunately, the left/right business makes it tricky. I have a lot of faith in McDonagh, and I could see him adapting to the right side and being just as effective.

Regardless, I'd deal Girardi or Del Zotto over McDonagh or Staal. I just think the latter two are clearly the better players. Staal is one of the best big, tall defensemen in the game today, and those are a rarity.
Not just you, I agree completely. Frankly, I don't care if they're all left handed - I value each one of Del Zotto, Staal, and McDonagh over Girardi. He's a good defensive player, but he is just far too prone to boneheaded mistakes, and, like you said, he's terrible offensively. The other three are all excellent two-way defenseman that can add more offensively than Girardi, and are just as good defensively. He's better at blocking shots - that's about it. I haven't seen this team blocking shots in the longest time, outside of the PK.

He's also a UFA at the end of next season, which I why I think the Rangers should trade him while they can still get a piece that can contribute moving forward - he's a valuable player. We need to maximize on the asset while we have the depth to do so.

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Old
04-09-2013, 10:21 PM
  #111
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I don't think Del Zotto is as good as Girardi in the D zone. Problem is, if we move Dan, we need another righty coming in. I'd add to Girardi to get Shattenkirk over here, they just added J-BO and Leopold. Maybe we can exchange Girardi and Boyle for Shattenkirk and a pick. I didn't offer a winger because I know STL is top heavy with wingers. I wouldn't deal Del Zotto yet, he still oozes potential. 50 points is not out of the question for him. He's our only real threat from the backend, with Stralman a distant second.

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Old
04-09-2013, 10:31 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Not just you, I agree completely. Frankly, I don't care if they're all left handed - I value each one of Del Zotto, Staal, and McDonagh over Girardi. He's a good defensive player, but he is just far too prone to boneheaded mistakes, and, like you said, he's terrible defensively. The other three are all excellent two-way defenseman that can add more offensively than Girardi, and are just as good defensively. He's better at blocking shots - that's about it. I haven't seen this team blocking shots in the longest time, outside of the PK.
And I have no problem with them blocking less shots. We have a world-class goaltender that carries a large cap hit. Why not make him do his job, which he is great at doing?

Also, you meant terrible offensively, right?

Quote:
He's also a UFA at the end of next season, which I why I think the Rangers should trade him while they can still get a piece that can contribute moving forward - he's a valuable player. We need to maximize on the asset while we have the depth to do so.
Agreed. If McIlrath is all he's cracked up to be, then it shouldn't be a big hole for long.

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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
I don't think Del Zotto is as good as Girardi in the D zone. Problem is, if we move Dan, we need another righty coming in. I'd add to Girardi to get Shattenkirk over here, they just added J-BO and Leopold. Maybe we can exchange Girardi and Boyle for Shattenkirk and a pick. I didn't offer a winger because I know STL is top heavy with wingers. I wouldn't deal Del Zotto yet, he still oozes potential. 50 points is not out of the question for him. He's our only real threat from the backend, with Stralman a distant second.
Why would St. Louis trade Shattenkirk? Bouwmeester has one more year left on his deal, and Leopold is expiring and nothing special in my book.

If anything, a deal with StL might make sense because they could potentially move a forward.

My pipe dream is a Girardi, Boyle, and a prospect or pick for Steen and Polak. Don't see it happening, though. Can't imagine they deal Steen. Still, they are top heavy with complimentary forwards. One of them is surely ripe for the picking, and you can't really go wrong with most of them.

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Old
04-09-2013, 10:34 PM
  #113
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Also, you meant terrible offensively, right?
LOL. I actually noticed that mistake, but I guess I forgot to edit it. Yeah, I meant offensively.

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Old
04-09-2013, 10:36 PM
  #114
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Lol, St. Louis isn't trading Shattenkirk for Girardi and Boyle. I imagine an asking price for Shattenkirk would be very heavy.

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04-09-2013, 10:43 PM
  #115
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He definitely had a good season last year, held the fort down until Staal returned. He had a bad playoffs defensively though, and had he not started getting the puck on net more in the playoffs, people would have been calling for his head.

I think that his value is the highest it's ever been, or ever will be right now. GM's always look for RD.

I'm not saying that he would be the first I'd want to move. I'm saying that I would be open to it.


I'd be all open to moving Girardi as well. He'll be a UFA after next season and even if he wants to stay he may end up being a cap casualty. Then there's also the way he plays too and those guys tend to fall off the cliff in a hurry. Would definitely consider moving him for young pieces and/or prospects.

I was only arguing the fact that Girardi isn't overrated.

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Old
04-09-2013, 11:50 PM
  #116
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Staal plus something for Evander Kane plus something.

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Old
04-10-2013, 12:45 AM
  #117
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I don't know where this Girardi hate is suddenly coming from, but apparently he is the new whipping boy in fashion.
No way DZ is better than Girardi defensively, the numbers don't bear it, watching the game don't bear it.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion but sometimes common sense should prevail.

Girardi can be moved for the right price, the question nobody wants to answer seriously is who would replace him?
And please, experimenting with a LHD as a RD on top pair shouldn't qualify as a serious answer.


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04-10-2013, 12:49 AM
  #118
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Staal plus something for Evander Kane plus something.
Based on how our defense performed yesterday and for most of this season, absolutely not.

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Old
04-10-2013, 12:57 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Lol, St. Louis isn't trading Shattenkirk for Girardi and Boyle. I imagine an asking price for Shattenkirk would be very heavy.
I agree. Shattenkirk has the offensive firepower that Girardi doesn't have.

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04-10-2013, 02:13 AM
  #120
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I don't know where this Girardi hate is suddenly coming from, but apparently he is the new whipping boy in fashion.
No way DZ is better than Girardi defensively, the numbers don't bear it, watching the game don't bear it.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion but sometimes common sense should prevail.

Girardi can be moved for the right price, the question nobody wants to answer seriously is who would replace him?
And please, experimenting with a LHD as a RD on top pair shouldn't qualify as a serious answer.
If we were moving Girardi, just about any defenseman we would get in return would be a better option. Or put whoever we'd get on the 2nd pair and bump MDZ up to the 1st so Staal can cover for him since Staal has had so much practice with Girardi over the years. I don't understand this notion that, since Girardi is constantly put on the ice and is physically able to stand there with a stick in his hands, it makes him a legitimate top-pairing defenseman. He's never been that great and his decision-making with the puck is pretty horrendous 9 times out of 10. Girardi has always had Staal/McDonagh to cover for him and people tend to give him a pass despite what he himself does with/without the puck. I cringe when Girardi is the one to take control of the puck in our zone, because all it takes is someone skating in at the red line to pressure Girardi enough to toss the puck away and turn it over. Or he'll just turn it over in our zone to make it easy for the other team (Fun fact: Girardi has led the Rangers in giveaways since the 2009-2010 season and gave stars like Redden and Rozsival a run for team lead during their tenure). Him and MDZ are our two most overrated defensemen and, while I have more faith in MDZ (mainly due to age/glimpses of what we've seen him able to do) putting everything together and turning a corner on his defensive play, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to moving either for the right return.

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04-10-2013, 09:35 AM
  #121
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If we were moving Girardi, just about any defenseman we would get in return would be a better option. Or put whoever we'd get on the 2nd pair and bump MDZ up to the 1st so Staal can cover for him since Staal has had so much practice with Girardi over the years. I don't understand this notion that, since Girardi is constantly put on the ice and is physically able to stand there with a stick in his hands, it makes him a legitimate top-pairing defenseman. He's never been that great and his decision-making with the puck is pretty horrendous 9 times out of 10. Girardi has always had Staal/McDonagh to cover for him and people tend to give him a pass despite what he himself does with/without the puck. I cringe when Girardi is the one to take control of the puck in our zone, because all it takes is someone skating in at the red line to pressure Girardi enough to toss the puck away and turn it over. Or he'll just turn it over in our zone to make it easy for the other team (Fun fact: Girardi has led the Rangers in giveaways since the 2009-2010 season and gave stars like Redden and Rozsival a run for team lead during their tenure). Him and MDZ are our two most overrated defensemen and, while I have more faith in MDZ (mainly due to age/glimpses of what we've seen him able to do) putting everything together and turning a corner on his defensive play, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to moving either for the right return.
I think you're lowballing Girardi's worth here. Hes a workhorse, hes a right handed shot, and hes durable.

With that said, I agree that if the Rangers are forced to trade a top 4 D-man it should be Girardi. Problem is we'd need a RH D-man to replace him - a good one. So, Girardi ++ for Kane, doesnt make that much sense for this team.

Girardi is a guy, however, whose perceived value around the league is higher than his actual value. Would be a good sell high opportunity.

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Old
04-10-2013, 09:50 AM
  #122
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I think you're lowballing Girardi's worth here. Hes a workhorse, hes a right handed shot, and hes durable.

With that said, I agree that if the Rangers are forced to trade a top 4 D-man it should be Girardi. Problem is we'd need a RH D-man to replace him - a good one. So, Girardi ++ for Kane, doesnt make that much sense for this team.

Girardi is a guy, however, whose perceived value around the league is higher than his actual value. Would be a good sell high opportunity.
that right there is why he willl not and i mean willl not be moved before staal, dz..

Top 4 Right handed dman are like trying to find number 1c.... they are rarely available.. he will be here long term.. he will decide if he wants to go or not.. not the other way around.. i dont understand why people thing he's a tradable asset.. we will never get someone who can bring what he can bring.. why would you want to get rid of that? I understand for the right return but its a hard position to fill.. If sauer was healthy and McIrath can be guarenteed to be top 4.. then yeah but both are HUGE Question marks soo.. DZ or Staal willl go before..

But to be honest all 4 of our d will be here long term unless they decide they want to walk.. its so hard to build a core of d as homegrown as we are.. this group is the closest i've seen seen home grown wise since NJ had Nieds, rafalsky stevens danyko.. cap will go up after next year so a more comfortable level so IMO none walk.. And they are playing on center stage i doubt they want to play anywhere else regardless of contract offers they may get..

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04-10-2013, 09:54 AM
  #123
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I think people are underestimating how hard it is to find a guy who can play the minutes Girardi plays and how effectively he plays them. Girardi is the only top-4 defender we have right now who is entirely comfortable on the right side. While I'd love to think that McIlrath will be a meaner, nastier version of Girardi, it doesn't make sense to give up someone so reliable just so we can force someone to play out of position.

Unless you can find a team who is looking to give up a top-pairing, RHD who can move the puck in exchange for a RHD who is a stay-at-home guy, I don't think there's a deal you can make that really makes sense.

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04-10-2013, 10:14 AM
  #124
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Trading Del Zotto under the right circumstances. The return has to be right. This isn't a 31 year old Gaborik owed $7.5M with the cap dropping nearly $6M. It has to be for a player the Rangers can control. Not a player one or two years away from group III. The acquisition of Moore gives the Rangers flexibility to move a D. Torts likes Moore. DZ is only 23 years old. Quality D are tough to find. You don't think the Rangers acquired Moore with the idea of flipping a D in a trade. I always remember what Gorton and Clark told Cerny during a draft chat. The Rangers had taken McIlrath in 10 and had just acquired Erixon. The question was whether they would take a D in 11. They said BPA. They know which teams like their current D to move a D in a trade down the road. They took Miller. They traded Erixon. They selected Skjei. Now they acquired Moore. Same potential scenario.


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04-10-2013, 10:18 AM
  #125
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I have heard Oilers fans open to the idea of trading Hall or Yakupov for Del Zotto.

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