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What's keeping Rinne from demanding a trade?

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Old
04-10-2013, 12:02 AM
  #26
Top 6 Spaling
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Originally Posted by dknash View Post
There was some loose discussion on Weber's motives which I failed to quote.

I think the financial outlay to Weber in the first two years is having/ is going to have an impact on the rest of the roster. Could be wrong, but are we spending to cap this season? Maybe the lockout explains some of that, but I won't be surprised if we don't next year either, because we have such a large burden in the signing bonus. Less money available = weaker roster = worse results = player discontent?
Trying not to derail the topic, but the "poison pill argument" is this:

If Weber really was ok with staying here, why would he load the first season with a 13 mil signing bonus, and do a similar thing the next year, knowing it would make it nearly impossible to match for a small market team. The structure of the contract is the strongest evidence that he wanted out.

But i digress, there's no way of really knowing.


Last edited by Top 6 Spaling: 04-10-2013 at 12:11 AM.
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04-10-2013, 12:07 AM
  #27
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Well, players don't negotiate offer sheets. They only see them when they come in. If someone sent me that contract and I knew that if I signed it I was guaranteed to play in either Nashville or Philly I'd sign it.

Maybe the contract is causing problems in the locker room, but I highly doubt it. I really doubt it's causing any issues with Rinne in particular.

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04-10-2013, 12:10 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Trying not to derail the topic, but the "poison pill argument" is this:

If Weber really was ok with staying here, why would he load the first season with a 13 mil singing bonus, and do a similar thing the next year, knowing it would make it nearly impossible to match for a small market team. The structure of the contract is the strongest evidence that he wanted out.

But i digress, there's no way of really knowing.
I think Jamie Allison was the last Preds defenseman with a singing bonus.

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04-10-2013, 12:13 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
In what way I am bashing him? I have said numerous times in this thread that I appreciate it and am glad. It shows character and leadership on his part. I just wanted to speculate on his motives (though we'll never know).

Lots of words being put in my mouth (or keyboard, I guess) on this one. I was curious what people though his motivation was. That is all. I'm not bashing him. I'm not saying he should leave. I wanted to discuss why he wants to stay when Suter, Erat, and *gulp* POSSIBLY DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ASK Weber decided to take a different route.
Should have said why do you question his decision? Are we not a team with half of its top six out for injury? I think a professional would know the importance of those guys in the lineup.


Ill say this again about Suter, Erat, and Weber.

Suter went home along with Parise, I see no blame in our team, city or management for that decision.

Erat has been on this team for years, and wanted something different. He has deserved it and to move on with his career.

Weber wanted big money, he chased it, and got it. Its business as usual in the NHL, I will not doubt Webers intentions on the fact he went after the big money, even upfront. I will not look into that all negatively.

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04-10-2013, 12:15 AM
  #30
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Just ramblings probably to make myself feel better.



1) For the record, season ticket holder since day one, it is really hard to go to the games. Yes, I will renew my tickets. It is just so frustrating.



2) It was disturbing that Marty asked for a trade. However, he did it the right way, clearly keeping it private between him and DP. Listening to the zone today, they said Marty won't talk to them about why he left. If this is Marty just keeping it private, I'm fine with that. But I think that there is a bigger problem.



3) Something happened in Phoenix last year, and we don't know what happened. We should have won that series hands down. We lot in 4. Hindsight is 20/20 but if we were all-in, like many of us believed, AK and Rads should not have been suspended. Team have rules but there are exceptions. It seem that the unraveling of this team started in Phoenix.



4) Many people say we have most of the pieces to contend. I disagree, we don't have a top line. Look at capgeek, whatever our two top lines are, most good team have one player who makes more than our top line. We clearly do not have the top offensive talent to contend. Problem is I don't know how to get the talent. There are very few free agents that score 30-40 goals are available. We have not been bad enough to draft that talent. (Paying our current talent is not an option)

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04-10-2013, 12:22 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Predatorbill View Post
Just ramblings probably to make myself feel better.



1) For the record, season ticket holder since day one, it is really hard to go to the games. Yes, I will renew my tickets. It is just so frustrating.



2) It was disturbing that Marty asked for a trade. However, he did it the right way, clearly keeping it private between him and DP. Listening to the zone today, they said Marty won't talk to them about why he left. If this is Marty just keeping it private, I'm fine with that. But I think that there is a bigger problem.



3) Something happened in Phoenix last year, and we don't know what happened. We should have won that series hands down. We lot in 4. Hindsight is 20/20 but if we were all-in, like many of us believed, AK and Rads should not have been suspended. Team have rules but there are exceptions. It seem that the unraveling of this team started in Phoenix.



4) Many people say we have most of the pieces to contend. I disagree, we don't have a top line. Look at capgeek, whatever our two top lines are, most good team have one player who makes more than our top line. We clearly do not have the top offensive talent to contend. Problem is I don't know how to get the talent. There are very few free agents that score 30-40 goals are available. We have not been bad enough to draft that talent. (Paying our current talent is not an option)



Totally Agree.
The team has not been this bad since Bill Holder, Andy Delmore, and Denis Arkipov were here. It just make us sit and babble.

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04-10-2013, 01:36 AM
  #32
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Lot of overreacting going on around here. Crappy season, lot of injuries, a lot of poor individual seasons, and nothing to play for at this point. To try to speculate or truly analyze beyond that is not going to accomplish a whole lot. If we find ourselves in the same situation next year, then perhaps we start questioning whether our cornerstone players will be interested in sticking around for the long haul. Until then, it is an anomaly and abomination of a season for a franchise that tends to have a very, very good track record.

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04-10-2013, 01:41 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Lot of overreacting going on around here. Crappy season, lot of injuries, a lot of poor individual seasons, and nothing to play for at this point. To try to speculate or truly analyze beyond that is not going to accomplish a whole lot. If we find ourselves in the same situation next year, then perhaps we start questioning whether our cornerstone players will be interested in sticking around for the long haul. Until then, it is an anomaly and abomination of a season for a franchise that tends to have a very, very good track record.
We only have two cornerstone players, Weber, Rinne. Everyone else is replaceable. Something has happened to this team after the Phoenix series. Problem is ownership said they would upgrade this team, we showed up 29 sell outs in a row. Buy me a first line.

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04-10-2013, 03:53 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Predatorbill View Post
We only have two cornerstone players, Weber, Rinne. Everyone else is replaceable. Something has happened to this team after the Phoenix series. Problem is ownership said they would upgrade this team, we showed up 29 sell outs in a row. Buy me a first line.
Those are some incredibly unrealistic expectations for all of the one off-season that this organization has possessed the financial resources to go after such players. And for what it was worth, Poile threw $ at Parise. Who else should we have bought? Jagr? Whitney? Were we planning on building a geriatric first line, assuming they even would have signed here? Would it have been worth a package of Colin Wilson, Ryan Ellis, and a bottom 6 forward for slightly more than a season of Marion Gaborik, assuming his glass body holds together even that long? How bout Austin Watson, Magnus Hellberg, our 1st and a 2nd (which we don't even have) for slightly more than one season of Jason Pominville?

It's easy to go out and throw crazy $ at guys in free agency, but getting actual results from those same guys is a very hit or miss proposition. Ask the Buffalo Sabres how far their big acquisitions of Christian Erhoff, Robyn Regehr, and Ville Leino got them, not to mention overpaying to retain Drew Stafford.

If we go the trade route, what pieces of actual value to other teams were we going to give up to get a first line that is actually available? Sergei, Blum and a pick aren't going to get it done.

I don't think there's much of a mystery to what happened to this team after the Phoenix series. Team chemistry was already clearly severely disrupted, one key player left semi-unexpectedly, another was offered a ridiculous offer sheet, a lockout ensued, no training camp, compressed schedule, injuries aplenty to the few of our players that WERE playing productively, and our franchise goalie having a wildly inconsistent year by his standards.

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04-10-2013, 04:34 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by dknash View Post
I think Jamie Allison was the last Preds defenseman with a singing bonus.
an appearance on Idol? The Voice? Nashville Star?

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04-10-2013, 07:23 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by dknash View Post
Weber's offer sheet seemed like a pretty obvious poison pill to me.

Looks like it's working.

Hopefully at a minimum it gets better after next year when the ridiculous bonus is out of the way.
How about it should be the other way around. Sign the best defenseman in the world to the richest contract in team history. It shows our players and other players around the league we are willing to spend. We had offered Suter and Parise the money as well. Can't force them to sign.

I think if anything we were too laid back in going after Suter and Weber. They should've been locked up long before free agency started AND then we would've had that shot at Parise.

I think it's time for Poile to move on and let Fenton take the reigns.

As far as Erat goes, why would he want out? Look at the common denominator and you'll have your answer.

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04-10-2013, 07:34 AM
  #37
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Ok, so if you take Rinne and put him on Toronto they are a better team, I agree, same with Philly.

However, if you take a superstar off their team and add them to our team, we're a better team too.

There's like 3 teams in the league that aren't a much better team with Rinne in net.

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04-10-2013, 07:53 AM
  #38
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He can ask for a trade all he wants, but he's not going anywhere unless he tanks a season or two, and if he does that (which he never would) no one is going to want him anyways.

Erat's underperformance and trade request came at a fortuitous time given the trajectory of the club. Rinne will be here for the long haul.

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04-10-2013, 08:15 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Give them Rinne in net, and they'll beat the crap out of us.
Doubt it. As good as Rinne is, Philly goes through goalies like boxer shorts.

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04-10-2013, 08:39 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatorbill View Post
Just ramblings probably to make myself feel better.



1) For the record, season ticket holder since day one, it is really hard to go to the games. Yes, I will renew my tickets. It is just so frustrating.



2) It was disturbing that Marty asked for a trade. However, he did it the right way, clearly keeping it private between him and DP. Listening to the zone today, they said Marty won't talk to them about why he left. If this is Marty just keeping it private, I'm fine with that. But I think that there is a bigger problem.



3) Something happened in Phoenix last year, and we don't know what happened. We should have won that series hands down. We lot in 4. Hindsight is 20/20 but if we were all-in, like many of us believed, AK and Rads should not have been suspended. Team have rules but there are exceptions. It seem that the unraveling of this team started in Phoenix.



4) Many people say we have most of the pieces to contend. I disagree, we don't have a top line. Look at capgeek, whatever our two top lines are, most good team have one player who makes more than our top line. We clearly do not have the top offensive talent to contend. Problem is I don't know how to get the talent. There are very few free agents that score 30-40 goals are available. We have not been bad enough to draft that talent. (Paying our current talent is not an option)

Somebody should tell the Flyers, Lightning, and pre-firesale Flames that spending a lot equals success.

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04-10-2013, 09:10 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Those are some incredibly unrealistic expectations for all of the one off-season that this organization has possessed the financial resources to go after such players. And for what it was worth, Poile threw $ at Parise. Who else should we have bought? Jagr? Whitney? Were we planning on building a geriatric first line, assuming they even would have signed here? Would it have been worth a package of Colin Wilson, Ryan Ellis, and a bottom 6 forward for slightly more than a season of Marion Gaborik, assuming his glass body holds together even that long? How bout Austin Watson, Magnus Hellberg, our 1st and a 2nd (which we don't even have) for slightly more than one season of Jason Pominville?

It's easy to go out and throw crazy $ at guys in free agency, but getting actual results from those same guys is a very hit or miss proposition. Ask the Buffalo Sabres how far their big acquisitions of Christian Erhoff, Robyn Regehr, and Ville Leino got them, not to mention overpaying to retain Drew Stafford.

If we go the trade route, what pieces of actual value to other teams were we going to give up to get a first line that is actually available? Sergei, Blum and a pick aren't going to get it done.

I don't think there's much of a mystery to what happened to this team after the Phoenix series. Team chemistry was already clearly severely disrupted, one key player left semi-unexpectedly, another was offered a ridiculous offer sheet, a lockout ensued, no training camp, compressed schedule, injuries aplenty to the few of our players that WERE playing productively, and our franchise goalie having a wildly inconsistent year by his standards.
I agree with everything in this post. For what it's worth, I imagine if you ask Rinne he would try and shoulder a lot of the blame for his terrible shootout performances this year. I love the guy and he's my favorite player, but he has struggled greatly with both shootouts and overall consistency this year. I don't blame him as he's still bailed the team out more times than I can count, and it's not like 80% of the team isn't playing like garbage, but he is capable of better.

To think that someone would sign a 7 year deal and then bail because we essentially lost 1 player (who he couldn't be sure we'd retain when he signed) and under performed/got bit by the injury bug is a bit out there.

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04-10-2013, 09:39 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
The immediate future (next year) looks awfully bleak IMO. I will reserve final judgement til I see how the draft and free agency go, but I think the window has shut on this team.
Really? AWFULLY bleak? I gotta' ask - what's your idea of bleak?

Our kids got a lotta' experience that you have to believe DP and BT didn't plan on. We've seen the results in the W/L column and it's disappointing. However, don't you believe that experience ultimately benefits them and their development?

Look at Bartly - at best he was #8 and an emergency call-up; we know he can play without hurting us, certainly solid as a 3rd pair guy - which give DP that much more flexibility in how he looks to potentially deal Blum or Ellis (or even Gill, depending on how on you look at it).

Look at Beck - some people clamoring for it but did we really think this 21yo kid was gonna' see anything but 4th line grinder time in a BT system this year? He's playing on a skill line, getting meaningful minutes. Willy started breaking through like we all hoped. Watson is getting some time other than 7mins/game with Yip and Clune, which is kinda' how BT tends to bring these guys up (or at least we worry about that expectation). These last couple weeks Smith isn't gonna' get his chain yanked, he's gonna' get a chance to play, make his mistakes without going to the BT doghouse - gotta' believe that'll be good in getting him to at least loosen up and play his game.

If DP is not able to move some combination of Blum/Ellis/SK/Horny we're gonna' be a little light in our top 6 next year - what's new? But, assume we get this team back, healthy, and DP does nothing but get a competent backup for Rinne - a disaster? Maybe a non-PO team - although in the realigned West the only for sure thing in our division is the Blackhawks. Assume a decent MN and StL, but I'm still not sure we aren't competitive for that last spot - and we're still letting the kids play and grow. Maybe not on the upswing yet, but I sure wouldn't go down the "awfully bleak" path.

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04-10-2013, 09:52 AM
  #43
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Getting back to the main question...

I'll reiterate what everyone else has said. He's a classy guy. You don't hear him blaming everyone around him and I doubt he wants out after one bad injury filled season. Also, the city is probably a factor. Many players like it here and would like to live here.

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04-10-2013, 10:19 AM
  #44
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Peks is staying. He signed a long term deal before anyone else did. My favorite player and the best overall person and sports professional in the city IMO.

I think he understands the injuries and unusual down year for the team.
This team better do several things in the offseason.

1. Get a legit backup. If Peks gets hurt we are right back to worse rewind of this year.
2. Get rid of SK.
3. Do something to put Legwand and Horny on a correct lower line. THEY ARE NOT TOP 6 PLAYERS!
4. Wear out the new skills room!

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04-10-2013, 10:21 AM
  #45
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I think what we've seen is an aberration from the effects of a lockout , no training camp, compressed schedule, injuries aplenty to our players that WERE playing productively, and all of the bad habits these players have picked up without coaching/practice time to really work them out. Trotz is a coach for a marathon, not a sprint.

I feel confident that this team will be much better this time next year or we'll all what someone's head on the proverbial silver platter!

Fairly certain we'll get a defenseman that will be responsible enough within the system and rotation to allow Josi, Ellis or Weber to join the play more in the offensive zone and curb breakaways that leave Rinne hanging out to dry. When we play stout defense and our d-men are playing with one foot headed back towards their zone and puts way too pressure on forwards playing above their roles talent-wise to generate offense. When we cheat, we get burned with breakaways and odd-man rushes. Look at the Blues adding J-Bo and Leopold on the left side of their defense as they were consistently victimized the same way we've been much of the season to what we saw last night and in their previous game versus Detroit. That's our biggest issue IMO and with the cap going down figure GMDP will be able to address it swapping middling assets to help other teams get under the cap.

With the Admiral's guys getting experience and once our intended line-up gets healthy for next season, I feel fine going forward with this team. I will renew my tickets and have my guy night's out for yet another season!

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04-10-2013, 10:36 AM
  #46
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Lot of doom and gloom here; some is legitimate, some is a bit exaggerated, some is just hyperbole. I think we fight for a 7 or 8 seed next year and likely end up in the 9-10 spot. We are a team that performs better over the long haul and needs a training camp; I think a full season works better for us. I'm generally fine with that; I hope the development curve stays on track and we're in the hunt in 2014-15, but more likely in 2015-16.

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04-10-2013, 11:10 AM
  #47
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Really? AWFULLY bleak? I gotta' ask - what's your idea of bleak?
In the immediate future (i.e. next year), I think we miss the playoffs. I agree we're in the hunt, but I don't see any way we are a true contender. In 2-3 years (with off-season moves that help) there is a chance, but next year will still be filled with growing pains.

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04-10-2013, 11:14 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
In the immediate future (i.e. next year), I think we miss the playoffs. I agree we're in the hunt, but I don't see any way we are a true contender. In 2-3 years (with off-season moves that help) there is a chance, but next year will still be filled with growing pains.
This roster isn't that much different than last years, sign a winger and a defenseman and we're fine.

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04-10-2013, 11:16 AM
  #49
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This roster isn't that much different than last years, sign a winger and a defenseman and we're fine.
Out: Suter, AK, Radulov, Erat

In: Clune, Beck, Hannan

I strongly disagree. But yes, if we land two top free agents, things change. Doubt that happens.

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04-10-2013, 11:28 AM
  #50
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lol

holy knee-jerk overration batman!

1) Half season. If this was the first 40+ games of a regular season we'd have 40 games to pull up in the standings with a very young team.

2) The past 2 games our lineup has been about half AHL players. Personally, I'm glad they're getting playing time and it's clear with the Erat trade that DP is looking towards the future.

3) Future. Going forward we have lots of young guns that have already proved to be, at the least, solid NHL players. (Wilson, Josi, Bourque, Beck) then another group of guys with great potential (Smith, Forsberg, Watson, Bartley, Blum).

We have a core of elite veterans (Rinne, Weber) and solid vets (Horny, Fish, Klein, Goose) to add to these young talents. In my opinion, the future is bright. That looks to me like a playoff team moving forward, and a probable cup contender in a few years.

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