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Latest "Hockey Talk" podcast with Ryan Boulding, long and wide-ranging conversation

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04-10-2013, 08:17 AM
  #1
Zih
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Latest "Hockey Talk" podcast with Ryan Boulding, long and wide-ranging conversation

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...utburst/12939/

Pretty interesting 70 minute podcast on Dater' blog, probably the most media coverage on the Avalanche we're going to have for a long time. I know a lot of people (me included!) aren't big fans of Dater, but I think this is definitely worthwhile to listen to. He talks with Ryan Boulding of Hockey on the Rocks, who wrote this article and was interviewing Giguere when we went on his "tirade."

(mods: sorry if this belongs in an already established thread, but it's pretty wide-ranging and touches on a lot of issues like Sacco, Sherman, Giguere, Varly, Landeskog, Kroenke)

I'll re-listen to it and take notes on some really interesting anecdotes or conversations that Avs fans might find interesting. After the 40 minute mark it starts to descend into classic Dater (meandering off-topic), but the first 50 minutes are well worth the listen.

The first 20 minutes is more about the Giguere comments, but some interesting tidbits start after the 14 minute mark.

-Avalanche possibly filmed the Giguere interview, the video of which will "probably never see the light of day."

-14:00 The players are "pretty quick to get into the showers and out of the locker room without anyone sticking a mic in their face." The only other player still in the room was Hejda.

-17:00 "Did Giguere go too far?" Neither thought so, thought that a "kick in the pants" might be what the young players need. They bemoan the repeated cliche answers the players give when they come out flat.

-19:30 Dater wonders if there will be backlash (from management) against Giguere, seems to think there might be.

-21:30 they talk about Sakic's first few years with the Nordiques, and how he apparently was pretty depressed and angry with his teammates during the bad old years. Gives some perspective on what we've been talking about with regards to what losing seasons do to the players.

-23:45 Short thoughts on tanking.

-25:00 They start talking about Landeskog as captain. Quick comment about Landeskog needing to learn to be the last guy to hit the showers after a loss. "Hard to be captain when you're not playing well."
-27:10 Anecdote about Landeskog taking command in the game against Calgary, the day that ROR signed. Not anything was said directly to the media about it, but the players rallied around it.

28:20 Talk about Denver as a hockey town. Only 16,000 households watch the games on TV on average. Out of all American hockey markets, Denver is the only one that's down this year.

31:20 "There's a funk in the locker room that you can feel when you go in there." Had a sad conversation with Hejda, who's not having any fun right now.

32:30 O'Brien getting benched and low TOI because they thought he came into camp out of shape.

33:10 Sacco "didn't pick this roster. Sacco didn't sign these guys to extensions, didn't sign Greg Zanon. Someone every year is in the Sacco doghouse."

34:20 Sacco not afraid to bench players ("Except Paul Stastny!"), but it doesn't seem to do anything to motivate players. Drive-by comment on Papa O'Reilly's "external management philosophy."

35:25 After Greg Zanon went berserk on Kiszla over stepping on the logo, he had a talking to and got benched the next game.

38:20 Talk about how Kroenke fired Bob Hartley after a winning season and good record.

39:00 Ponder whether the organization is cheap enough to keep Sacco around next year purely so they aren't paying for 2 coaches at once. Dater paraphrase: "You wouldn't think that. But yet, knowing how cheap the team is, they might." Supposedly the Avs were forcing the players to pay the $10 internet fee at hotels until recently.

40:00 Stan Kroenke is a "black hole", Josh Kroenke "wrapped up in the Nuggets, that's all he cares about right now." Dater knows nothing more than anyone else what the Kroenkes are thinking.

40:30 Talk about how this story was big in the hockey world, bringing a lot of bad press to the organization. Large numbers of people went to both of their blogs yesterday. Changes the dynamic of the pressure on Sacco/Sherman, "a little more unpredictable" what happens now. Dater thinks that organization has stopped caring what happens the rest of the season.

43:00 Pierre Lacroix has started traveling with the team now. He's in LA for the two games coming up.

43:30 Eric Lacroix during angry conversation with NHL officials after blown call against Wild, the theme of conversation was "this could cost people their jobs."

44:30 Players refuse, even in private, to blame Sacco for the team's ills.

44:45 Defense is brutal, soft. Avs lack an intimidating guy. But entire defense is signed next season, "do you buy 2 guys out?" "Why do you sign Shane O'Brien and then bench him?" "Why sign both Zanon and SOB?"

46:30 They disagree about EJ. Dater's getting tired of EJ's game, Boulding argues that his D partner is important.

47:30 "I've never seen a worse shooting defense in my life." "Last defenseman who could shoot was Rob Blake."

Elliott is "not working out," "the next Colby Cohen."

48:30 Talk about Gaunce. Dater forgot that he played 11 games for us.

49:15 Talk turns to Varly. Dater thinks management has lost faith in Varly, think he'll get traded next year and they go with Pickard next year. They think it will be telling if Aitto starts on [Thursday]. Dater thinks that organization thinks that Varly quit on the team, doesn't look like he cares. They think he looks a lot like Andy did before he got traded. Dater: "Varly not good in pressure situations right now."

51:30 Dater: "I KNOW that Varly isn't playing as much lately because they [implied to be coaches] think his body language is bad and that he's quit." Varly has refused to talk to the media. Boulding: "When he came to play at the beginning of the season, not everyone did."

53:45 Ponder whether Varly is actually hurt. Dater at least has suspicions that he isn't.

54:10 Dater sounds dead certain that Pierre Lacroix is still in charge of this team.

55:00 Sherman "gun-shy" after the EJ trade, didn't make a single other trade before the O'Byrne trade. [EDIT: they mention this, but it isn't factually true. All of the Varly, Quincey, Liles, Downey trades occurred between, plus some minor trades]

55:25 Talk about Kroenkes as owners. Boulding thinks that the Avs are making enough money that the Kroenkes don't care what happens with the team. Arsenal fans also complain about Kroenke. "How often do you hear from ownership here?" "Not much."

56:30 in the hockey issue of Mile High Sports magazine (October), there is an interview with Josh Kroenke. It's a basketball interview. Dater's only interviewed Josh once in his life. Boulding has seen him at one game. Dater thinks that Josh just lets the hockey people make all the decisions. Wonder whether the Kroenkes might start questioning if they have the right people.


Last edited by Zih: 04-10-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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Old
04-10-2013, 09:20 AM
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It is very hard to be a fan right now, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. In reality in todays nhl like it or not a team has to be bad for a few years to be good in the future. Look at the hawks, pens or even canucks and capitals. These franchises were in the the same place we are now back when we were winning cups and destroying teams night in and night out in the league.I was a nordiques fan, and they were terrible for many years , but they collected top prospects and draft picks that led to 2 cups when they moved to denver.another top player in this years draft will put this team one step closer to a contending team. Patience my fellow fans. The avs will soon be dominant again.

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04-10-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zih View Post
49:15 Talk turns to Varly. Dater thinks management has lost faith in Varly, think he'll get traded next year and they go with Pickard next year. They think it will be telling if Aitto starts on Friday. Dater thinks that organization thinks that Varly quit on the team, doesn't look like he cares. They think he looks a lot like Andy did before he got traded. Dater: "Varly not good in pressure situations right now."

51:30 Dater: "I KNOW that Varly isn't playing as much lately because they [implied to be coaches] think his body language is bad and that he's quit." Varly has refused to talk to the media. Boulding: "When he came to play at the beginning of the season, not everyone did."

53:45 Ponder whether Varly is actually hurt. Dater at least has suspicions that he isn't.
I'm going to be so pissed if they get rid of him. He doesn't look anything close to the way Andy did when he ran himself out of town. And if they do "andy" him, the return better be a lot better than effing Brian Elliot.

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04-10-2013, 09:42 AM
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Varly... is quittin... on da team?!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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04-10-2013, 09:44 AM
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Yep, pretty interesting stuff. We are living interesting times. I can't believe Sacco/Sherman would be able to keep their jobs after this season, even If It's only one more season.

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04-10-2013, 09:46 AM
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Dater's analysis of anything hockey related is usually one of the most painful things to read/listen to.

I didn't find that all that much different.

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04-10-2013, 09:49 AM
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I'm going to be so pissed if they get rid of him. He doesn't look anything close to the way Andy did when he ran himself out of town. And if they do "andy" him, the return better be a lot better than effing Brian Elliot.
I'd take last year Brian Elliot.

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04-10-2013, 09:50 AM
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A lot of speculation in there by people who have proven they don't have much (if any) inside knowledge.

Few points:
-Varly will get next year to prove himself if he fails then they will move on, Pickard will only get time if somebody gets hurt
-PL traveling with the team is telling, Sherman is likely gone or will make big changes
-The bad press is good for the fans, bad for the organization
-Zanon getting benched for logogate is BS
-Elliott is still young, has plenty of time to work out

This is a trying time for the organization, and we will end up seeing how good the staff really is. They have a chance to turn things around really quickly and make this team a contender within a few years, or they can languish around with their heads in the sand. If they choose the latter, well, you will see the fanbase continue to shrink.

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04-10-2013, 09:54 AM
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43:30 Eric Lacroix during angry conversation with NHL officials after blown call against Wild, the theme of conversation was "this could cost people their jobs."
Hopefully your job and your father's first and foremost.

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04-10-2013, 09:57 AM
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We made the McGinn trade after the EJ trade, so that portion is wrong at the 55 mark.

But most of them are valid arguments we've been discussing ourselves here. Lacroix still in charge, backlash on Giggy (shouldn't happen) and people not blaming Sacco being an excuse for keeping him.

At some point people have to wake the **** up and realize that there is a serious problem with this team and only Giggy has stood up from the players to express that. Everyone else (barring a few) just want their paychecks and to go home at the end of the day.

Sherman, Sakic, Lacroix, someone has to step into the ring say "This isn't working out, sorry Sacco, but you've got to go so we can find our identity as a team." They don't even have to tell him it's his fault at this point, he's simply not working.

Then they have to seriously sit down and ask themselves why they have a bunch of bottom pairing guys that fill the same roles.

If Varly is traded over this mess... there will be a riot on their hands. He's not even remotely the problem. Nor is Elliott, he's been just fine.

Ultimately they have to invest 1% of the passion we as fans show in this team.

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04-10-2013, 10:00 AM
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35:25 After Greg Zanon went berserk on Kiszla over stepping on the logo, he had a talking to and got benched the next game.
He deserves a medal for getting in Kiszla's face.

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04-10-2013, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Zih View Post
39:00 Ponder whether the organization is cheap enough to keep Sacco around next year purely so they aren't paying for 2 coaches at once. Dater paraphrase: "You wouldn't think that. But yet, knowing how cheap the team is, they might." Supposedly the Avs were forcing the players to pay the $10 internet fee at hotels until recently.
I know that there's a lot more to this whole Podcast than just the bolded....but MAN OH MAN that is CHEAP!

I mean that's on the level of The Oakland A's circa early 2000's forcing their players to pay for the Soda in the vending machines in their own clubhouse.

That type to stuff is going to get spread around the league by players, how CHEAP the ownership is, and is going to cause us to become even less desirable as a FA destination

***EDIT***

And on the topic of Varly...this Ryan guy has the right mindset (from what I read up there).

I don't think that Varly has quit on the team, but when HE showed up at the beginning of the season, his teammates didn't, plain and simple. Varlamov CAN be the guy going forward, but the Avalanche, ne, ANY team in the NHL, cannot consistently rely on goaltending to win games, the league isn't like that anymore. Sure, you can have a goaltender give a great performance, but you cannot win in this league relying on your Goalie to be out of his mind every game.

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Last edited by RockLobster: 04-10-2013 at 10:12 AM.
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04-10-2013, 10:15 AM
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Did Sherman not trade Liles, as well as trade for Downie, Varly, and McGinn after EJ?

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04-10-2013, 10:16 AM
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Did Sherman not trade Liles, as well as trade for Downie, Varly, and McGinn after EJ?
He did, AD is just flat out wrong there

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04-10-2013, 10:20 AM
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Players talk. Pretty sure the "cheapness" and petty ways the Avs' do business is well known amongst the players around the league already. Islanders west would be the Avs' operating M.O.

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04-10-2013, 10:20 AM
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Did Sherman not trade Liles, as well as trade for Downie, Varly, and McGinn after EJ?
Yeah, I edited that detail in so as not to confuse more people. It sounded wrong to me at the time but then I forgot to check it while I was typing the post. Not sure how much I trust that comment in general (about Sherman being gun-shy), it sounds to me more like Dater's disappointment with EJ leaking through.

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04-10-2013, 10:22 AM
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A lot of that honestly sounds like analysis and speculation from people that know next to nothing about hockey. The Avs are a no story right now (other than the Giguere tirade), so they are trying to drum up some stories.

Not too surprised with the Kroenke's being cheap on the Avs. They need to start winning again and soon, or the Kroenke's will need to sell them to someone that actually cares.

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04-10-2013, 10:23 AM
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Players talk. Pretty sure the "cheapness" and petty ways the Avs' do business is well known amongst the players around the league already. Islanders west would be the Avs' operating M.O.
Yeah, but making players pay for the WiFi? That's a new low, even for the Avalanche

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04-10-2013, 10:25 AM
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Yeah, but making players pay for the WiFi? That's a new low, even for the Avalanche
God forbid millionaire athletes that get a per diem and free hotel room pay $10 for internet. The horror.

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04-10-2013, 10:28 AM
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Yeah, but making players pay for the WiFi? That's a new low, even for the Avalanche
Nah I think that our "Nutritionist" being the high school kid behind the counter at Quiznos is worse.

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04-10-2013, 10:30 AM
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God forbid millionaire athletes that get a per diem and free hotel room pay $10 for internet. The horror.
I would be willing to wager that the Avalanche would be one of only a few teams, or possibly the only team, that was doing this.

It's the things that are perceived as small that can make a world of difference.

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04-10-2013, 10:30 AM
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God forbid millionaire athletes that get a per diem and free hotel room pay $10 for internet. The horror.
God forbid a guy worth $5 billion foot the bill for the sports team he owns. The $10 a day is less than drop in the bucket to him.

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04-10-2013, 10:32 AM
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Nah I think that our "Nutritionist" being the high school kid behind the counter at Quiznos is worse.

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04-10-2013, 10:34 AM
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What ****ing hotels charge 10 bucks for internet!?

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04-10-2013, 10:36 AM
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What ****ing hotels charge 10 bucks for internet!?
I've been to quite a few in Denver that do...usually the ones that are 4-Star or higher will charge for it, usually because the clientele can afford the extra add-on charge (the only times I've stayed in hotels like that are when I find them on Hotwire for like $50 a night)

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