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2013 Draft Discussion Part 2

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04-10-2013, 09:50 AM
  #201
FLYguy3911
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I think it is possible that Monahan will push Barkov down by the time the draft comes simply because of the passport. I could see a team like Calgary, who is desperate for a top line center, rating Monahan higher because he is Canadian. I wouldn't even be surprised if they took him 3rd overall over Drouin because of their need for a center.

Current Draft Order:
Colorado: Seth Jones
Florida : Mackinnon
Calgary: Monahan
Carolina: Drouin
Tampa Bay: Nichuskin
Philly: Barkov
Nashville: Lindholm
Buffalo: Shinkaruk
Edmonton: Nurse
If Feester took Monahan over Drouin, he should just hand in his resignation letter. One, you don't draft for need. Drouin is clearly a cut above Monahan. Two, Drouin could play center if they are that desperate to fill the role. At least trade back and add assets. Half the league would love to move up to 3 and take a player like Drouin.

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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I agree complete. But Jay Feaster is a bit of a wild card.He reached on Jankowski last year. He offersheeted Ryan OReilly as if he was a top line center. I could see him picking the Canadian over the Finn if their evaluation is close.
Canadian vs. Finn? I think you're looking too much into it. Barkov is the superior player. He's a big two-way pivot that has already dominated the men's game at age 17. He's nearly a full year younger than Monahan. Monahan is a nice player, but I don't see him as having #1 center upside. I think his offensive ceiling is lower than Couturier's of who he gets compared to often.

Jankowski has a lot of upside. It's too early to crush that pick. If he was born 3 days later, he'd just be entering this year's draft. O'Reilly is a 22 year old center with a strong two-way game and a developing offensive game. Hard to fault the Flames for going after him.

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04-10-2013, 10:02 AM
  #202
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
If Feester took Monahan over Drouin, he should just hand in his resignation letter. One, you don't draft for need. Drouin is clearly a cut above Monahan. Two, Drouin could play center if they are that desperate to fill the role. At least trade back and add assets. Half the league would love to move up to 3 and take a player like Drouin.
I could see a team taking Barkov over Drouin (Kopitar v. Giroux?), but not Monahan.

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04-10-2013, 10:04 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
If Feester took Monahan over Drouin, he should just hand in his resignation letter. One, you don't draft for need. Drouin is clearly a cut above Monahan. Two, Drouin could play center if they are that desperate to fill the role. At least trade back and add assets. Half the league would love to move up to 3 and take a player like Drouin.



Canadian vs. Finn? I think you're looking too much into it. Barkov is the superior player. He's a big two-way pivot that has already dominated the men's game at age 17. He's nearly a full year younger than Monahan. Monahan is a nice player, but I don't see him as having #1 center upside. I think his offensive ceiling is lower than Couturier's of who he gets compared to often.

Jankowski has a lot of upside. It's too early to crush that pick. If he was born 3 days later, he'd just be entering this year's draft. O'Reilly is a 22 year old center with a strong two-way game and a developing offensive game. Hard to fault the Flames for going after him.
I am not saying I think Calgary should draft Monahan or even will, I am just saying I wouldn't be surprised. There is always someone who gets over drafted and someone who drops. Nobody thought Mark Schiefele was going ahead of Couturier or that Couturier was going to drop out of the drop 5 until the night before the draft. Or Cam Fowler was going to fall out of the top 5 let alone top 10 and be drafted behind Dylan McLlrath. It seems that the top 3 and top 8 overall are set in stone now but there will be players creeping up and down the ranks as we get closer to the draft.

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04-10-2013, 10:05 AM
  #204
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Just curious, if we did get Barkov/MacKinnon, would Giroux move to the wing or no?

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04-10-2013, 10:06 AM
  #205
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Just curious, if we did get Barkov/MacKinnon, would Giroux move to the wing or no?
Would our #1 center and captain move to wing for a rookie?

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04-10-2013, 10:07 AM
  #206
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I don't think so.

They'd be 2nd line centers and Schenn would move to the wing

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04-10-2013, 10:07 AM
  #207
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I'm just hoping someone awesome falls to wherever we're picking.

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04-10-2013, 10:08 AM
  #208
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I'm just hoping someone awesome falls to wherever we're picking.
With our luck, we'll draft a bust

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04-10-2013, 10:11 AM
  #209
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I'm thinking we'll end up somewhere in the 5-10 range so I'm hoping for Nurse.

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04-10-2013, 10:16 AM
  #210
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With our luck, we'll draft a bust
That's not how it works dude.

First we win the draft lottery, then we pick Jones, then he makes it into the league and is the talk for the calder as a defenseman, then he starts the next season on a tear looking like a legit franchise defender, then I buy his jersey, then his legs fall off..literally just right off his body.

That's how it works. Fate is much too cruel and devious to allow the simple picking of a bust.

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04-10-2013, 10:17 AM
  #211
BrindamoursNose
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With our luck, we'll draft a bust
Well, Homer's 1st rounders have been pretty awesome. Can't be too upset with those!

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04-10-2013, 10:18 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am not saying I think Calgary should draft Monahan or even will, I am just saying I wouldn't be surprised. There is always someone who gets over drafted and someone who drops. Nobody thought Mark Schiefele was going ahead of Couturier or that Couturier was going to drop out of the drop 5 until the night before the draft. Or Cam Fowler was going to fall out of the top 5 let alone top 10 and be drafted behind Dylan McLlrath. It seems that the top 3 and top 8 overall are set in stone now but there will be players creeping up and down the ranks as we get closer to the draft.
A surprise will be from a riser with high upside, not a low ceiling/high floor guy like Monahan.

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04-10-2013, 10:23 AM
  #213
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A surprise will be from a riser with high upside, not a low ceiling/high floor guy like Monahan.
I think you are underrating Monahan a bit. He was projected top 3 before the year and plays with nobody on one of the worst teams in the OHL. He doesn't have the YouTube highlights of the other forwards, but he is good. Toews is a comparison that is thrown around.

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04-10-2013, 10:23 AM
  #214
LegionOfDoom91
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At the start of the year it was Mackinnon, Jones, and Monahan.

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04-10-2013, 10:28 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
At the start of the year it was Mackinnon, Jones, and Monahan.
Was Monahan rated above Barkov? My sense coming into the year was that it was Mackinnon, Jones, and Barkov as the top-3?

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04-10-2013, 10:30 AM
  #216
Krishna
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Was Monahan rated above Barkov? My sense coming into the year was that it was Mackinnon, Jones, and Barkov as the top-3?
I'll go by McKenzie's list since he seems to be an aggregator of scouts :

1. Nathan MacKinnon
2. Seth Jones
3. Sean Monahan
4. Elias Lindholm
5. Rasmus Ristolainen
6. Aleksander Barkov
7. Andre Burakovsky
8. Jacob de la Rose
9. Curtis Lazar
10. Kerby Rychel

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04-10-2013, 10:33 AM
  #217
LegionOfDoom91
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Was Monahan rated above Barkov? My sense coming into the year was that it was Mackinnon, Jones, and Barkov as the top-3?
I'm not sure what the ratings were but people thought he could challenge Mackinnon and Jones. Obviously things changed with Drouin having a monster year.

I honestly think if Drouin played the full year with Halifax last year he would have been getting more hype leading into this season.

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04-10-2013, 10:33 AM
  #218
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Schenn is not 'weak' on faceoffs for a second year forward.

In the NHL facoffs are to so much of a higher level than in juniors, AHL etc that the average NHL centre comes into NHL on about 40-44% facoff percentage... then over the first 4-5 years they improve by an average of about 8-10%.

Anyone drafted, even if they are great at facoffs, is unlikely to be above 45-6%, never mind 50%.

If you don't believe me go and look at the NHL's best 20 centres faceoff % on entry and now... the minimum increase is about 5% and maximum about 15%!

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04-10-2013, 10:39 AM
  #219
LegionOfDoom91
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
I'll go by McKenzie's list since he seems to be an aggregator of scouts :

1. Nathan MacKinnon
2. Seth Jones
3. Sean Monahan
4. Elias Lindholm
5. Rasmus Ristolainen
6. Aleksander Barkov
7. Andre Burakovsky
8. Jacob de la Rose
9. Curtis Lazar
10. Kerby Rychel
Wow did that list ever change during the course of the year. I don't even think half of those guys go in the top 10 now. Some of them are even probably 2nd rounders now.

The only guys I would feel are sure things to go in the top 10 on that list are Jones, Mackinnon, Barkov, Lindholm, and Monahan.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 04-10-2013 at 10:45 AM.
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04-10-2013, 10:42 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
I'll go by McKenzie's list since he seems to be an aggregator of scouts :

1. Nathan MacKinnon
2. Seth Jones
3. Sean Monahan
4. Elias Lindholm
5. Rasmus Ristolainen
6. Aleksander Barkov
7. Andre Burakovsky
8. Jacob de la Rose
9. Curtis Lazar
10. Kerby Rychel
McKenzie from January has:

1. Jones
2. MacKinnon
3. Drouin
4. Barkov
5. Lindholm
6. Monahan ...

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04-10-2013, 10:44 AM
  #221
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Schenn is not 'weak' on faceoffs for a second year forward.

In the NHL facoffs are to so much of a higher level than in juniors, AHL etc that the average NHL centre comes into NHL on about 40-44% facoff percentage... then over the first 4-5 years they improve by an average of about 8-10%.

Anyone drafted, even if they are great at facoffs, is unlikely to be above 45-6%, never mind 50%.

If you don't believe me go and look at the NHL's best 20 centres faceoff % on entry and now... the minimum increase is about 5% and maximum about 15%!
Good stuff. I guess it would be a little premature to judge his faceoff ability, or any ability for that matter. I still think his best position would be wing. He had success at the end of his rookie year there and he seems at his best when he is plays a physical power forward game. A lot will depend on who the Flyers draft. If they get Barkov or Monahan, I would move Schenn to left wing and keep him there. I would probably do it anyway if Laughton is going to take over 3rd line center duties instead of playing wing himself.

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04-10-2013, 10:58 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
That's not how it works dude.

First we win the draft lottery, then we pick Jones, then he makes it into the league and is the talk for the calder as a defenseman, then he starts the next season on a tear looking like a legit franchise defender, then I buy his jersey, then his legs fall off..literally just right off his body.

That's how it works. Fate is much too cruel and devious to allow the simple picking of a bust.
Where does he underperform, fans go bonkers, Flyers trade him, he wins multiple Norris trophies and championships come in?

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04-10-2013, 11:03 AM
  #223
Intentional Icing
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Where does he underperform, fans go bonkers, Flyers trade him, he wins multiple Norris trophies and championships come in?
Before I cry myself to sleep but after my 12th shot of bottom shelf, plastic bottled whiskey.

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04-10-2013, 12:16 PM
  #224
BernieParent
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
That's not how it works dude.

First we win the draft lottery, then we pick Jones, then he makes it into the league and is the talk for the calder as a defenseman, then he starts the next season on a tear looking like a legit franchise defender, then I buy his jersey, then his legs fall off..literally just right off his body.

That's how it works. Fate is much too cruel and devious to allow the simple picking of a bust.
If his arms and pelvis fell off, too, he'd be a bust.

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04-10-2013, 12:23 PM
  #225
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Homer doesn't miss on first round forwards, usually mid to late first rounders at that. Even when they went off the board with zubrus, he ended up being a good player. When they draft D and goalies it doesn't usually go well.

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