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The Lars Eller Thread - Great or Greatest Dane Edition

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Old
04-10-2013, 09:05 AM
  #301
Madam Kadri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
There is a basic unavoidable fact about scoring at the supposed "top six" level.

Its essentially impossible without PP minutes.

The basic cut off for a top sixer these days is a point every two games or .5 PPG. But to get to .5 PPG on just even strength scoring requires a .5 PPG ES, which isn't just top six level, its impact player or riding on the coattails of an impact player level scoring. So to get to that level on your own merits means that you are such a strong offensive talent that you're going to force your way on to a PP.

Occasionally you get a bottom sixer that gets a hot hand and moves into top six territory on just ES work. But they can't sustain that an inevitably fall back to reality the next season.

The biggest reason you so often see the massive gap in top six and bottom six raw scoring totals is less about a huge gap in real offensive talent but that top sixers get their numbers juiced by being on one of their team's 2 PP waves.

The top six bottom six dichotomy that so many make so much about is effectively an artifact of penalties being 2 minutes long, which is effectively 2 PP shifts, which means ice time for two PP units worth of players. If they were one minute then you'd see the big gap in counting numbers between top line players and everyone else.

Which is effectively to say: Eller has already maxed out on the amount of offense any reasonable person could expect from him in his current usage. For them to increase, his usage must change. Expecting more out of him with no usage change is unreasonable.
I agree. Eller really deserves a shot on the PP because he's been ridiculously efficient on there.

More PP time correlates with more ice time in general, and our coach has yet to demote DD line down a notch so that Eller can get a real shot with minutes and facing competition typical of top 6 forwards.

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Old
04-10-2013, 09:10 AM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
I agree. Eller really deserves a shot on the PP because he's been ridiculously efficient on there.

More PP time correlates with more ice time in general, and our coach has yet to demote DD line down a notch so that Eller can get a real shot with minutes and facing competition typical of top 6 forwards.
Therrien has done well to change the style and the culture. He is still rather stuck in his ways when it comes to coaching.

He likes his veteran players, players he's had in the past. He refuses to look at on ice performance in the game when making adjustments. We will always see the same PP units, the same line formations late in tied and trailing games, despite other lines or players having good games.

Galchenyuk-Eller-Pacioretty-Halpern would've been my forward line out there at the end of the game. Halpern to take the draw and ensure we won it, Eller there to back him up. I would take Halpern off immediately if we gained possession and brought Gallagher off the bench.

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04-10-2013, 10:11 AM
  #303
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Time for a shake-up

Galchenyuk-Eller-Gionta
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Ryder
Prust-Plekanec-Gallagher
Moen-Halpern-White

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:36 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by TinordiandSubban View Post
Time for a shake-up

Galchenyuk-Eller-Gionta
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Ryder
Prust-Plekanec-Gallagher
Moen-Halpern-White

Bourque-Plekanec- Ryder
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gionta
Moen-Halpern-Prust

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:39 AM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinordiandSubban View Post
Time for a shake-up

Galchenyuk-Eller-Gionta
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Ryder
Prust-Plekanec-Gallagher
Moen-Halpern-White
why does Desharnais deserve to get the Canadiens best winger? He doesn't deserve any promotions right now with his play.

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:40 AM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treb View Post
Bourque-Plekanec- Ryder
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gionta
Moen-Halpern-Prust
Patches-Galchenyuk-DD
Bourque-Eller-Gionta
Gallagher-Plekanec-Ryder

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:50 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Treb View Post
Bourque-Plekanec- Ryder
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gionta
Moen-Halpern-Prust
As much as I want to see that line, Galchenuyk and Prust just click together. They just need more ice time along with Eller. Make this the 2nd line

Bourque-Pleks-Ryder
Galchenyuk-Eller-Prust
Pacthes-DD-Gallagher
Moen-Halpern-Gionta

But we just know Gio is not going to be sent down to the 4th even if he should

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:55 AM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Patches-Galchenyuk-DD
Bourque-Eller-Gionta
Gallagher-Plekanec-Ryder
Those are good lines, but Plekanec needs a defensively responsible winger. Either Gio or Bourque.

Patches-Chuckie-DD
Ryder-Plekanec-Gionta
Bourque-Eller-Gallagher

I'd give Bourque to Pleky.. But I feel Eller wouldnt benefit from Ryder... but Plek does. Now we have two very capable shut down lanes.

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:58 AM
  #309
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New lines at practice were

Bourque Plekanec Gionta
Pacioretty Desharnais Gallagher
Galchenyuk Eller Ryder
Moen Halpern Prust


Amazing how DD still avoids having his line tinkered with.

Canadiens Montréal ‏@CanadiensMTL 35m
Bourque is on a line with Gionta and Plekanec. Ryder is with Galchenyuk and Eller. Prust is with Moen and Halpern.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:01 AM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
New lines at practice were

Bourque Plekanec Gionta
Pacioretty Desharnais Gallagher
Galchenyuk Eller Ryder
Moen Halpern Prust


Amazing how DD still avoids having his line tinkered with.

Canadiens Montréal ‏@CanadiensMTL 35m
Bourque is on a line with Gionta and Plekanec. Ryder is with Galchenyuk and Eller. Prust is with Moen and Halpern.
Gionta is not moved either. I suppose his speed and two-way play are just too valuable. Oh, and he's captain, of course.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:03 AM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
Gionta is not moved either. I suppose his speed and two-way play are just too valuable. Oh, and he's captain, of course.
To be fair, before Bourque went down with an injury, that line was very good.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:06 AM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
New lines at practice were

Bourque Plekanec Gionta
Pacioretty Desharnais Gallagher
Galchenyuk Eller Ryder
Moen Halpern Prust


Amazing how DD still avoids having his line tinkered with.


Canadiens Montréal ‏@CanadiensMTL 35m
Bourque is on a line with Gionta and Plekanec. Ryder is with Galchenyuk and Eller. Prust is with Moen and Halpern.
This is a great line for Eller though, both Ryder and Galychenuk are hot lately.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:06 AM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
Gionta is not moved either. I suppose his speed and two-way play are just too valuable. Oh, and he's captain, of course.
The thing is, Plekanec and Gionta form an excellent shutdown pair. I would also be hesitant to separate them.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:08 AM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The thing is, Plekanec and Gionta form an excellent shutdown pair. I would also be hesitant to separate them.
Good shutdown pair but no offense, as Gionta is bound to flub taking a pass or make stupid wide shot from the perimeter. Pleks has had to deal with scraps all the time while lower lines get the more productive linemates.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:08 AM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinordiandSubban View Post
Time for a shake-up

Galchenyuk-Eller-Gionta
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Ryder
Prust-Plekanec-Gallagher
Moen-Halpern-White
Because we lost a game by one goal? Really?

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:33 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Ok, then prove me wrong. Sure he had a great game last night. I don't say he never has a great game. But most compliment I see here has more to do with hope than with Eller's actual production on the ice.

Yes he's only 23. He plays better than last year, mainly in his level of effort, but it barely translates in effective production.

Yes, he's average defensively, having 1 good game for 1 bad game (I'm not counting PKing where he's great). but since he's only 23, I'm willing to concied he's probably gonna be a good defensive player.

People thinks he plays well because he's flashy and he's good at stickhandling. But watch the games: it doesn't translate because he has poor vision. Heck, Galchenyuk and Prust stopped producing when Eller became their center. Yesterday's game showed how "free" Galchenyuk was not having to wait for a pass that never comes, and he playd his best game in a long time.

Everybody blast my post, but nobody prooved me wrong with facts. Eller is great on the PK, and great at "trying" to do everything himself, but his line never produce. And I don't care about last game -- that makes just one.

When do we see a crisp and precise pass from Eller? 1 or 2 every 5 games?

Paint it in any color you want, he isn't producing. I'm ok to have him on the third line because he's good enough for it and great on the PK. That's about it. Galchenyuk is the futur center of this team, and if Eller doesn't learn to play wings, he's good as gone.
Why do you keep saying that Eller lacks procuction? Do you realize his point production is quite good as a 3rd liner? You can compare it with the rest of the league and you will realize his production is pretty decent considering his role and linemates.

Eller is 5th in the team in points at even strength which is not bad at all.

He has 1g and 4 assists on the PP, same for DD but DD has plays on the PP every games while Eller gets a chance every 2 weeks.

So Eller has one point less than DD, with 2 less games, pratically no PP (and when he does he produces quite well)..but Eller is the one that is lacking production and should be trade? Yeah ok dude.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:37 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Why do you keep saying that Eller lacks procuction? Do you realize his point production is quite good as a 3rd liner? You can compare it with the rest of the league and you will realize his production is pretty decent considering his role and linemates.

Eller is 5th in the team in points at even strength which is not bad at all.

He has 1g and 4 assists on the PP, same for DD but DD has plays on the PP every games while Eller gets a chance every 2 weeks.

So Eller has one point less than DD, with 2 less games, pratically no PP (and when he does he produces quite well)..but Eller is the one that is lacking production and should be trade? Yeah ok dude.
Not to mention playing on average close to two minutes less per game and having a much smaller percentage of offensive zone starts.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:47 AM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
New lines at practice were

Bourque Plekanec Gionta
Pacioretty Desharnais Gallagher
Galchenyuk Eller Ryder
Moen Halpern Prust


Amazing how DD still avoids having his line tinkered with.

Canadiens Montréal ‏@CanadiensMTL 35m
Bourque is on a line with Gionta and Plekanec. Ryder is with Galchenyuk and Eller. Prust is with Moen and Halpern.
These are IMO, the Habs most balanced lines...as long as MT plays the line that's got the hot hand though

I'd also consider sitting out Moen and insterting White in his place

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:50 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
Good shutdown pair but no offense, as Gionta is bound to flub taking a pass or make stupid wide shot from the perimeter. Pleks has had to deal with scraps all the time while lower lines get the more productive linemates.
But we rely entirely on Plek defensively, so its fine.

I suggested that we couldve signed Semin on the UFA market.. he would've been a treat to watch with Plek, both very similar.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:51 AM
  #320
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21 points in the 33 games since he was promoted to the 3rd line from the #12/13 forward. He's been fairly consistent in terms of production too (9 points in February, 8 points in March, 4 points and counting in April).

If he can put up this pace over 82 games, he'd be a 50-55 point player.

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04-10-2013, 11:53 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
21 points in the 33 games since he was promoted to the 3rd line from the #12/13 forward. He's been fairly consistent in terms of production too (9 points in February, 8 points in March, 4 points and counting in April).

If he can put up this pace over 82 games, he'd be a 50-55 point player.
WITHOUT PP.

What can he be with PP ? Wouldn't be surprised to see him hit 70 on a good year.

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04-10-2013, 11:55 AM
  #322
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Yeah, he's consistently played like a 50 point player this year. Safe to say he's not a 3rd liner "at best", since he's an high end 3rd liner at this point, if such a thing exists.

I really don't want to see Eller or Plekanec moved anytime soon, having those two ensure we can roll 3 good lines as we can afford to have an offense-only line with their two way play.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:57 AM
  #323
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Bourque - Prust - Ryder
Gallagher - Desharnais - Gionta
Eller - Plekanec - Galchenyuk
Pacioretty - Dumont - Halpern

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Old
04-10-2013, 12:00 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by TinordiandSubban View Post
Time for a shake-up

Galchenyuk-Eller-Gionta
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Ryder
Prust-Plekanec-Gallagher
Moen-Halpern-White
What are you thinking putting Desharnais above Plekanec?

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04-10-2013, 12:02 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
Bourque - Prust - Ryder
Gallagher - Desharnais - Gionta
Eller - Plekanec - Galchenyuk
Pacioretty - Dumont - Halpern
Enough with this, terrible lineup from top to bottom. Why are you putting Eller at wing when he's been one of our most consistent player, if anyone needs to be demoted it would be DD.

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