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** Official 2013 Fire Sacco Thread: Part Deux **

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04-09-2013, 11:26 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
After Giggy's comments last night Sacco is getting lambasted in the media here in Canada. Duhatchuk was just on Fan960 in Calgary and was saying he would have fired him by now. He thinks the only reason they haven't is because Roy will be coming in and Roy is busy in the Q right now. This is all just opinion on his part, no rumors or anything.

One thing is for sure. Sacco has no control over that room. There is no respect there for him.
This is what I've been thinking for a while now. Though I'm really, really scared of what might happen if he says no again.

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Would love to see his record against the Western Conf.
I've got a breakdown at home I can post later tonight. Overall it's a losing record, and I think his points percent is somewhere around .430 in the west. I don't know exact numbers offhand but surprisingly he has a winning record against the central. His NW record is downright awful (52 losses), and his Pacific record is slightly less awful but still horrible.

Also of note, last night officially made Sacco the worst active coach in the league. His .491 points percentage is worse than Capuano's .492. Congrats on another new milestone, Joe!

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04-09-2013, 11:31 AM
  #227
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Sounds like you guys should hire Mike Keenan.

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04-09-2013, 11:49 AM
  #228
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Sounds like you guys should hire Mike Keenan.
I'd rather drink cancerous puss than be forced to watch that happen.

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04-09-2013, 05:01 PM
  #229
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I didn't even know this thread existed....

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1382431&page=5



Us Avs fans like to travel in packs when it comes to trolling....

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04-09-2013, 10:22 PM
  #230
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Jacques Martin?

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04-10-2013, 12:05 AM
  #231
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Here's a breakdown of the team's record under Sacco. I don't have the individual East divisions, just the overall conference record.

Division Win Loss OTL Ponts%
Central 37 27 8 0.569
Pacific 27 38 7 0.423
NW 29 52 6 0.368

West total 93 117 21 0.448
East total 33 14 7 0.676
Overall 126 131 28 0.491

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04-10-2013, 01:20 AM
  #232
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Giggy's comments are the second comments I've heard in the last two weeks. Dutchy said something a long those same lines a week or so ago did he? I remember him saying something close to that.

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04-10-2013, 01:47 AM
  #233
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If players are using too much time talking about going to Vegas then there is something wrong with the leadership of the team.

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04-10-2013, 06:14 AM
  #234
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They should be talking about golfing, right?

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04-10-2013, 07:37 AM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
I didn't even know this thread existed....

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1382431&page=5



Us Avs fans like to travel in packs when it comes to trolling....
Lot of non-Avs fans started to vote Sacco after they saw what was going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by detrude View Post
Here's a breakdown of the team's record under Sacco. I don't have the individual East divisions, just the overall conference record.

Division Win Loss OTL Ponts%
Central 37 27 8 0.569
Pacific 27 38 7 0.423
NW 29 52 6 0.368

West total 93 117 21 0.448
East total 33 14 7 0.676
Overall 126 131 28 0.491
.569 against Central.. well, Avs are in Central div. next year .

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04-10-2013, 08:30 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Lot of non-Avs fans started to vote Sacco after they saw what was going on.



.569 against Central.. well, Avs are in Central div. next year .
Playoffs here we come!

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04-10-2013, 09:00 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detrude View Post
Here's a breakdown of the team's record under Sacco. I don't have the individual East divisions, just the overall conference record.

Division Win Loss OTL Ponts%
Central 37 27 8 0.569
Pacific 27 38 7 0.423
NW 29 52 6 0.368

West total 93 117 21 0.448
East total 33 14 7 0.676
Overall 126 131 28 0.491
It is way more telling to analyze his regulation W/L percentage, I did so earlier and found that Sacco wins approximately 20% of his games in regulation over the past 165 games he's coached.

I can assure you there is not a single coach in the NHL with 160+ games coached for one team recently that is worse than that.

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04-10-2013, 09:52 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detrude View Post
Here's a breakdown of the team's record under Sacco. I don't have the individual East divisions, just the overall conference record.

Division Win Loss OTL Ponts%
Central 37 27 8 0.569
Pacific 27 38 7 0.423
NW 29 52 6 0.368

West total 93 117 21 0.448
East total 33 14 7 0.676
Overall 126 131 28 0.491
Thanks for that

Sherman takes one look at Sacco's record vs the Central and extends his contract.

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04-10-2013, 10:46 AM
  #239
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Honestly, even the Cynic in me, which is usually stronger than I'd care to admit, just does not see any chance Sacco returns. After Giggy spoke out, I just see too much bad PR in the future for the organization to keep Sacco. Hiring a new coach will take some pressure momentarily off of the FO, and give them a chance at redemption before all of them are removed.

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04-10-2013, 11:19 AM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detrude View Post
Here's a breakdown of the team's record under Sacco. I don't have the individual East divisions, just the overall conference record.

Division Win Loss OTL Ponts%
Central 37 27 8 0.569
Pacific 27 38 7 0.423
NW 29 52 6 0.368

West total 93 117 21 0.448
East total 33 14 7 0.676
Overall 126 131 28 0.491
Also, translated to "point share%", the record against divisions are:
Div ColP OppP ColSP%
AT 21 22 48,84 %
NE 26 9 74,29 %
SE 25 19 56,82 %
East 72 50 59,02 %

NW 64 125 33,86 %
PA 65 112 36,72 %
CE 82 80 50,62 %
West 211 317 39,96 %

NHL 283 367 43,54 %

That is, Avs points / (Avs points + Opponent points) i.e. how big share Avs got of the points. I counted 2010 playoffs as 2 points for win, 0 points for loss i.e. not giving a point for OT loss.

Pay attention especially to the NW division.

The reason I find this much better than "normal NHL point%" is that clearly it matters a lot that how many points you give away. For example, for playoff spots it matters nothing how many absolute points you have, the only thing that matters is that are you in top-8 in conference (or top-1 in division) or not. With absolute points you can finish deadlast in NHL with 123 points. Or, with 75% win%.


Last edited by Jaymond Flurrie: 04-10-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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04-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by avsfan89 View Post
I was watching a documentary on the Montreal Canadiens' season kind of in the vein of Hbo 24/7.

After a game it showed coaches going through tape with PK Subban on a play he made a mistake on. They were showing him what he did wrong, not to do it again, and giving him other options he can do in those situations.

lmao do you think Sacco actually does that with his own players and dmen. If so it doesn't seem to be working.

I just can't fathom Sacco telling Hunwick not to turn the puck over on the blueline and Hunwick listening.
I'm sure they do that, every team works with their players like that. It's their ability to identify the plays, and explain to them the better options, and get them to really do it that's the problem.

It's in one ear out the other, even if it's good info. It takes a guy like Jiggy that they actually respect to stand up and say he's embarrassed at how they're playing, and call them out for not caring enough about losing and doing the right things to be successful.

I don't think they really respect Sacco enough as a HC. They respect him as a person, but not like they respect a guy like Jiggy who's won a cup and a conn smythe, or an experienced coach with success. I think they'd respect and listen more to a guy like Roy for the same reason they listened to Jiggy.

Either way, the team's reaction to Jiggy proves that Sacco is a big part of the problem. He was never able to get them to react to him the way they did after the backup goaltender got pissed off and called them out.

It's time for a real coach now, not just someone who will hold their hand while they learn to take the training wheels off.

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04-11-2013, 12:41 PM
  #242
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Roy ripping Grigorenko for lack of effort. Of all the 'in the family' types, I want Roy the most.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jrh...142710344.html

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04-11-2013, 04:03 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I'm sure they do that, every team works with their players like that. It's their ability to identify the plays, and explain to them the better options, and get them to really do it that's the problem.

It's in one ear out the other, even if it's good info. It takes a guy like Jiggy that they actually respect to stand up and say he's embarrassed at how they're playing, and call them out for not caring enough about losing and doing the right things to be successful.

I don't think they really respect Sacco enough as a HC. They respect him as a person, but not like they respect a guy like Jiggy who's won a cup and a conn smythe, or an experienced coach with success. I think they'd respect and listen more to a guy like Roy for the same reason they listened to Jiggy.

Either way, the team's reaction to Jiggy proves that Sacco is a big part of the problem. He was never able to get them to react to him the way they did after the backup goaltender got pissed off and called them out.

It's time for a real coach now, not just someone who will hold their hand while they learn to take the training wheels off.
I agree that Sacco most go, but you guys love to crap on his head. There is only so much coaches can do.

You can show all the video you want, but those players have limitations.

Hunwick is looking much better this days compared to how he looked when he first got here. But i guess the coaches have nothing to do with it, right?

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04-11-2013, 04:12 PM
  #244
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I agree that Sacco most go, but you guys love to crap on his head. There is only so much coaches can do.

You can show all the video you want, but those players have limitations.

Hunwick is looking much better this days compared to how he looked when he first got here. But i guess the coaches have nothing to do with it, right?
I think the fact that Jiggy was able to motivate the team to play one of their best games this season after holding the players accountable speaks volumes about how effective Sacco's coaching style is. Shouldn't the coach do that? Maybe he does and just doesn't commend enough respect from the players to be heard. I suspect he is too easy on the players, as indicated by his talking points in post-game conferences. "We had good effort tonight blah, blah, blah."

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04-11-2013, 04:20 PM
  #245
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I think the fact that Jiggy was able to motivate the team to play one of their best games this season after holding the players accountable speaks volumes about how effective Sacco's coaching style is. Shouldn't the coach do that? Maybe he does and just doesn't commend enough respect from the players to be heard. I suspect he is too easy on the players, as indicated by his talking points in post-game conferences. "We had good effort tonight blah, blah, blah."
I think he has been to easy. I think he had the right approach when he came in and made everyone accountable. Remember him sitting Chris Stewart then sending him to the minors? Something happened along the way and he started getting on guys like Galiardi for watver reason. Him not holding ROB, Zanon and Hunwick accountable for their fuq ups is what also boggles my mind. Telling us Barrie is 7th/8th on the depth chart infuriated me to no end seeing as hes the only defenseman we have whose a threat from back there and whose been our best dman all year YES more consistent then Mr. Johnson.

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04-11-2013, 04:35 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
I agree that Sacco most go, but you guys love to crap on his head. There is only so much coaches can do.

You can show all the video you want, but those players have limitations.

Hunwick is looking much better this days compared to how he looked when he first got here. But i guess the coaches have nothing to do with it, right?
I think the proof is on the ice. They are making the same mistakes on the ice, and playing just as poor defensively as four years ago.

I don't think Sacco is a good teacher of the game for young players, and I doubt he does well teaching them how to be better in video sessions.

Eliminating fundamental mistakes, and playing better two way hockey is a very teachable aspect to the game, and I'm pretty sure an experienced head coach would have helped this young team progress further in their overall game than they have now.

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04-11-2013, 04:57 PM
  #247
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I think the proof is on the ice. They are making the same mistakes on the ice, and playing just as poor defensively as four years ago.

I don't think Sacco is a good teacher of the game for young players, and I doubt he does well teaching them how to be better in video sessions.

Eliminating fundamental mistakes, and playing better two way hockey is a very teachable aspect to the game, and I'm pretty sure an experienced head coach would have helped this young team progress further in their overall game than they have now.
Sacco was prematurely hired and shouldn't have had his contract renewed, but that only proves how bad our FO is.

I'm sure there is a lot of better coaches out there. But i also know that if you go to the other 29 team's boards you will find a lot of fans that believe they know more than their team's coach.

And i remember how much crap Queenville got from fans around here, and most wanted him gone too, just couldn't imagine Granato would be his replacement (again, proof of how bad our FO is).

A fan acting as if a video coach giving one of his players a few tips, is something that doesn't happen here because Sacco is so bad, is actually funny. That's why every team has a video coach, isn't it?

And we have to decide whether our defense is underachieving or not. We can't whine about Zanon/Hunwick/SOB/ROB, and give Sacco crap when those guys don't play like PK Subban.

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04-11-2013, 05:02 PM
  #248
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I think the fact that Jiggy was able to motivate the team to play one of their best games this season after holding the players accountable speaks volumes about how effective Sacco's coaching style is. Shouldn't the coach do that? Maybe he does and just doesn't commend enough respect from the players to be heard. I suspect he is too easy on the players, as indicated by his talking points in post-game conferences. "We had good effort tonight blah, blah, blah."
I don't think a coach should have to come up with a huge ****ing win one for the gipper speech every single game. I think it says more about the character of the players that as well paid as they are some of them just aren't interested in showing up. They shouldn't have to have William Wallace riding a pony around the locker-room before ever ****ing game to play like they did last night. They should be doing that every single game because that is what they are paid to do. Now, I'm not saying the end results of the game will always be a win but the effort should always be there.

Having said all that...I do believe Joe Sacco needs to go. But I also think the evil father and son duo, Greg Sherman and probably every single player Jiggy was referring to should be given the heave-ho as well. But that's just me...

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04-11-2013, 05:06 PM
  #249
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I don't think a coach should have to come up with a huge ****ing win one for the gipper speech every single game. I think it says more about the character of the players that as well paid as they are some of them just aren't interested in showing up. They shouldn't have to have William Wallace riding a pony around the locker-room before ever ****ing game to play like they did last night. They should be doing that every single game because that is what they are paid to do. Now, I'm not saying the end results of the game will always be a win but the effort should always be there.

Having said all that...I do believe Joe Sacco needs to go. But I also think the evil father and son duo, Greg Sherman and probably every single player Jiggy was referring to should be given the heave-ho as well. But that's just me...
Exactly... we have a hard time holding players accountable around here.

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04-11-2013, 06:04 PM
  #250
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. They should be doing that every single game because that is what they are paid to do. Now, I'm not saying the end results of the game will always be a win but the effort should always be there.
Valid point. Many of the players are young, and need to LEARN what it means and what it takes to be a professional.

While having some strong vocal vets would help, I feel the vets that the Avs have, as well as the coaches, have been too forgiving of this team due to the youth it is built around.

I do not feel that Sacco has shown that he is the guy to take this team to that next step. I think there needs to be a more demanding coach brought in who will continually demand the effort shown last night, and will more quickly and directly address when the players begin to lose intensity and focus.

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