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Is it possible that we, as a fan base, may be overreacting to this poor season?

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Old
04-10-2013, 12:39 PM
  #26
1865
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This is a board full of over-reactions. There's a very simple reason for this, we don't do this. We don't tank, we don't rebuild, we don't miss the play-offs. It's not in our ethos, it's not the way we work.


Last edited by 1865: 04-10-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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04-10-2013, 01:14 PM
  #27
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Passionate city and fans with high expectations for the flyers. Don't become one of the winingest franchises and not care or pass a under .500 season

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04-10-2013, 01:25 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Meltzer had an excellent write up about why the Parise and Suter attempt was poor (pie on the sky that they would sign here) and the Carle situation was also a miscalc b/c Holmgren had tagging space at one point during the season to sign Carle to a more reasonable contract which Carle was willing to do..Meltzer talked about that too. So there is more to those situations than what it seems at face value.....
Why was the attempt at Parise/Sutter poor?

I still support Homer letting Carle go. I know his style is what we need, but we don't need Carle specifically. Hasn't helped Tampa Bay too much it seems either.

Homer makes many more good decisions than bad ones. I am not ready to rip his head off like some.

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04-10-2013, 01:30 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Why was the attempt at Parise/Sutter poor?

I still support Homer letting Carle go. I know his style is what we need, but we don't need Carle specifically. Hasn't helped Tampa Bay too much it seems either.

Homer makes many more good decisions than bad ones. I am not ready to rip his head off like some.
The only mistake Homer made with Carle was keeping Coburn over him, but I would've done the same, so I can't kill him for it. And holy **** balls Coburn needs to figure it out for next year.

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04-10-2013, 01:39 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Why was the attempt at Parise/Sutter poor?

I still support Homer letting Carle go. I know his style is what we need, but we don't need Carle specifically. Hasn't helped Tampa Bay too much it seems either.

Homer makes many more good decisions than bad ones. I am not ready to rip his head off like some.
From Meltzer's POV it was a pipe dream from the beginning in the meantime they let the market dictate the terms. They could have avoided the market driving up the cost of Carle and Jagr while they told them to sit tight going for a pipe dream. Again Meltzer in a post noted how during the season they had tagging space and that Holmgren blurted out in public that he could sign Carle at below market rate then he lets him go to market..go figure. As Meltzer notes:

"It's market value. Either pay it or don't pay it. But if you don't pay it, realize the blueline would get worse, not better."


The Weber offer came after and was a better gamble although high risk but higher reward especially considering Weber wanted to come here until Nashville got all ******** and felt the Flyers pushed them around...

https://mobile.twitter.com/billmeltz...11701357871105

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04-10-2013, 01:51 PM
  #31
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04-10-2013, 01:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
From Meltzer's POV it was a pipe dream from the beginning in the meantime they let the market dictate the terms. They could have avoided the market driving up the cost of Carle and Jagr while they told them to sit tight going for a pipe dream. Again Meltzer in a post noted how during the season they had tagging space and that Holmgren blurted out in public that he could sign Carle at below market rate then he lets him go to market..go figure. As Meltzer notes:

"It's market value. Either pay it or don't pay it. But if you don't pay it, realize the blueline would get worse, not better."


The Weber offer came after and was a better gamble although high risk but higher reward especially considering Weber wanted to come here until Nashville got all ******** and felt the Flyers pushed them around...

https://mobile.twitter.com/billmeltz...11701357871105
Signing Jagr does nothing for us. Last year, he was dead by playoff time. Not willing to pay that cash for Jagr. Just not. So to me, his deal doesn't matter

I'm fine with the blueline getting worse if Carle isn't here. It's one year, we'll see. And the Weber deal may've been a pipe dream, but he made the effort. What more do you want?

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04-10-2013, 02:09 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Signing Jagr does nothing for us. Last year, he was dead by playoff time. Not willing to pay that cash for Jagr. Just not. So to me, his deal doesn't matter

I'm fine with the blueline getting worse if Carle isn't here. It's one year, we'll see. And the Weber deal may've been a pipe dream, but he made the effort. What more do you want?
I noted that the Suter and Parise offer was a pipe dream..they had no real interest to come here..that is what the contention was. I already said Weber was a better attempt and didn't factor into Carle and Jagr being exposed to the market like they were....

Jagr absolutely does do something for us despite your belief he wouldn't...look what he did in Dallas and now he's doing in Boston. Moreover, G and Hartnell petitioned the GM to resign him b/c they felt he did do something for them and yet Holmgren pursued his pipe dream with Suter and Parise..

Anyway, you can disagree but I don't think you lay out a convincing argument given the needs of this team this season....

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04-10-2013, 05:06 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
I noted that the Suter and Parise offer was a pipe dream..they had no real interest to come here..that is what the contention was. I already said Weber was a better attempt and didn't factor into Carle and Jagr being exposed to the market like they were....

Jagr absolutely does do something for us despite your belief he wouldn't...look what he did in Dallas and now he's doing in Boston. Moreover, G and Hartnell petitioned the GM to resign him b/c they felt he did do something for them and yet Holmgren pursued his pipe dream with Suter and Parise..

Anyway, you can disagree but I don't think you lay out a convincing argument given the needs of this team this season....
The interest from their end may not have been real, but the offer was. That kind of money could change someone's mind. It didn't because they got that money elsewhere. Oh well

Jagr doesn't help us. What does he do for the D? Sure didn't help that when he could barely skate in the playoffs last year. I know what G and Hartsy wanted, but its a short term option. Also, we needed the cash for Voracek if I remember correctly.

Point is, if Jagr gets us into the playoffs (in theory), I believe he would not put us over the top to be a true contender. Since he is ancient, it would have been a wasted signing in my eyes since we wouldn't have moved forward and he will likely retire very soon.

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04-10-2013, 05:09 PM
  #35
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I still blame the loss of Pronger for all of our problems. We lost one of the best defensemen over the past 2 decades, and in order to get him we gave up 2 first round picks, Lupul, and Sbisa. This is hard to recover from. Those would have likely been 4 players to fill out our roster or trade to solve other problems. I think it was Ken Campbell who pointed out how St. Louis, Edmonton, and Anaheim all had severe drop off in points after Pronger left.

I don't blame Holmgren for our problem because of this. If Pronger were healthy, we wouldn't be in this shape. In trying to get Parise and Suter and Weber he was trying to make us a better team.

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04-12-2013, 01:44 AM
  #36
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Kings fan in peace here.

Seriously, I look at Carter and continue to pinch myself why on earth you would give this guy up. He skates as well as anyone in the NHL has breakaway speed and a wrist shot above any other in the league and your management couldn't have/leave/make room for him?

Pinch #2 is Richards who we got first, but when the two of them got together, wow.

Sorry, I follow you guys cuz I like Simmonds and Schenn etc. but after reading this thread it makes me wonder???

JVR? We could have done something there, too.

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04-12-2013, 04:41 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindogla View Post
Kings fan in peace here.

Seriously, I look at Carter and continue to pinch myself why on earth you would give this guy up. He skates as well as anyone in the NHL has breakaway speed and a wrist shot above any other in the league and your management couldn't have/leave/make room for him?

Pinch #2 is Richards who we got first, but when the two of them got together, wow.

Sorry, I follow you guys cuz I like Simmonds and Schenn etc. but after reading this thread it makes me wonder???

JVR? We could have done something there, too.

The problem was Carter and even Richard to some extent did not jive in the locker room chemistry. It would have been interesting to see how it would have played out if Lavy was the one booted and not those two.

I truly believe Carter spending half a season in CBJ made him mature. Being given a "second chance" to play for a winning team like the Kings sparked a new drive then just partying in Philly's night life.

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04-12-2013, 08:26 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I still blame the loss of Pronger for all of our problems. We lost one of the best defensemen over the past 2 decades, and in order to get him we gave up 2 first round picks, Lupul, and Sbisa. This is hard to recover from. Those would have likely been 4 players to fill out our roster or trade to solve other problems. I think it was Ken Campbell who pointed out how St. Louis, Edmonton, and Anaheim all had severe drop off in points after Pronger left.

I don't blame Holmgren for our problem because of this. If Pronger were healthy, we wouldn't be in this shape. In trying to get Parise and Suter and Weber he was trying to make us a better team.
The loss of pronger and the cost to get him are part of the reason we are where we are.

We went young. B Schenn is doing so so, Couturier didn't step up yet...our season would have been different if they had both broken out. It didn't help that Briere fell apart, and provided basically nothing.

In regards to last offseason. Keeping Matt Carle for 6 years at that salary was just a bad idea. Are we somewhat worse for not having him, sure...but I'll take Gervais at his price over Carle and his price any day. Matt Carle is not that good...we tried...HARD to get a big upgrade in Suter...and failed. I can live with that.

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04-12-2013, 10:03 AM
  #39
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A year of growing pains

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Yes. Once we get a PMD most of our problems will be solved. We wont be hammered in our zone for 2 straight minutes on even strength, and the forwards will have a better breakout and wont have to dump and chase all ****in game. If mason can play like he did last night, maybe better, I wont be against buying out Bryz.

This team needs one PMD and we will be noticeably better in all areas. Factor in no more sophomore slumps and we are a threat again.
I couldn't agree more with this. It's a rebuilding year of sorts in my mind for this Flyers team. A year to sit and see what you have, have the young kids learn how to lose before they learn how to win as they say, try to bolster your backup goal tending at the deadline and see what develops in the off season.

It was too freaking exciting to think that:
A) they had the balls to offer Weber that contract last off-season and
B) He signed it

I remember listening to the FAN 590 AM (Toronto) radio last summer and hearing Weber himself (as well as his agent in a subsequent interview) talk about leaving Nashville and moving on to Philly.
He said Philly is where he wanted to be, was grateful to the Preds in how they treated him etc., etc.

And to have the Preds match it seemed to me a bit incredulous.

He knew Nashville had a right to match, but still he went right out in public and gave the usual sound bite about leaving one team and going to a new one and all the emotions of it. He thought the Flyers had a winning organization and was one he wanted to be a part of. Was it all gamesmanship in the sense that he did want to leave, and going out in public to tell David Poile in a roundabout way 'I won't be happy in Nashville, don't bother matching'?

As far a Suter and Parise are concerned, the Flyers were just kicking tires there. They had little interest in going anywhere but Minny.

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04-12-2013, 10:11 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by vindogla View Post
Kings fan in peace here.

Seriously, I look at Carter and continue to pinch myself why on earth you would give this guy up. He skates as well as anyone in the NHL has breakaway speed and a wrist shot above any other in the league and your management couldn't have/leave/make room for him?
I would much rather have Voracek and Couturier than the guy who never got it done in the playoffs in Philly.

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04-12-2013, 10:55 AM
  #41
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I would much rather have Voracek and Couturier than the guy who never got it done in the playoffs in Philly.
Carter was a great Brian Campbell stick check from sending the Flyers to Game 7 in 2010. Two years later he scores two game winners, including the Stanley Cup winner, in the Final.

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04-12-2013, 11:43 AM
  #42
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Like I said, he never got done in the playoffs in Philly. 21 points in 47 games.

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04-12-2013, 12:15 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I still blame the loss of Pronger for all of our problems. We lost one of the best defensemen over the past 2 decades, and in order to get him we gave up 2 first round picks, Lupul, and Sbisa. This is hard to recover from. Those would have likely been 4 players to fill out our roster or trade to solve other problems. I think it was Ken Campbell who pointed out how St. Louis, Edmonton, and Anaheim all had severe drop off in points after Pronger left.

I don't blame Holmgren for our problem because of this. If Pronger were healthy, we wouldn't be in this shape. In trying to get Parise and Suter and Weber he was trying to make us a better team.
and if we would have of had someone better then Leighton in goalthen Pronger would of gotten us that Cup. All that would they gave up would of been worth it. Not getting the goaltending fixed when Pronger was here was on Holmgren.
I still do that Pronger trade, only switching the 1st for the 3rd being conditional which I still think the Ducks do. I am not that upset about it.
Not having the goaltender that year is what ticks me off.

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04-12-2013, 12:29 PM
  #44
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and if we would have of had someone better then Leighton in goalthen Pronger would of gotten us that Cup. All that would they gave up would of been worth it. Not getting the goaltending fixed when Pronger was here was on Holmgren.
I still do that Pronger trade, only switching the 1st for the 3rd being conditional which I still think the Ducks do. I am not that upset about it.
Not having the goaltender that year is what ticks me off.

That wasn't anybody's fault though. A healthy Ray Emery and the Flyers win.

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04-12-2013, 12:44 PM
  #45
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That wasn't anybody's fault though. A healthy Ray Emery and the Flyers win.
I know Emery getting hurt wasn't anyone's fault. just wish he would tried to get another goaltender. Someone other then Leighton off the waivers

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04-12-2013, 12:46 PM
  #46
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Carter was a great Brian Campbell stick check from sending the Flyers to Game 7 in 2010. Two years later he scores two game winners, including the Stanley Cup winner, in the Final.
still boggles my mind some people fault him for that. Niemi made a great save as well.

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04-12-2013, 01:02 PM
  #47
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If anyone is severely disappointed with how the team performed this year, then I would say they're probably overreacting. We made the Carter and Richards trades and got back a lot of young players who were in no way ready to replace them, nor should they have been expected to right away, and then Pronger got hurt.

I just think the team as it is right now has some serious holes, and some young players who will probably get better as the next few years go by. This team is about building something right now and there are always hiccups along the way.

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04-12-2013, 01:35 PM
  #48
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I actually had to turn WIP off last night listening to Flyers talk. Apparently the Schenn's and Couturier are the ones to blame for this year, Bryz is GUARENTEED to get amnestied and the Flyers desperately need Briere back in the lineup. Then 10 minutes later Marc Farsetta or however you spell his name is agreeing with a guy saying that we need to trade everyone and just rebuild and that the Jeff Carter and Mike Richards deals were mistakes we should have gotten better players for them. I hate how little knowledge our media has of the sport.

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04-12-2013, 02:23 PM
  #49
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Weirdly, I do think it is Couturier and Schenn's fault, but without it being their fault...

They're in the scoring positions and they're clearly being expected to do better, but they're too young to have this expectation on them. I'm a big fan of Holmgren, but he messed this season up. He's got one year to fix it.

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04-12-2013, 02:49 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Weirdly, I do think it is Couturier and Schenn's fault, but without it being their fault...

They're in the scoring positions and they're clearly being expected to do better, but they're too young to have this expectation on them. I'm a big fan of Holmgren, but he messed this season up. He's got one year to fix it.
I get what you mean and i agree. I'm not going to fault them yet, they're still very young.

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